[elsdfr]

	Originally Posted by The Rose To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You don't. If you're worried that you're insane, you're not.

Bingo!

[Femme de Homme INTJ]

Ah, my favorite topic! Insanity!

Well, I have heard the definition of insanity a million times: "When you keep trying the same thing over and over, expecting different results."

The definition, however, doesn't seem broad enough, like it's only dealing with one type of insanity.

There was that guy (the "Beautiful Mind" guy) who rationalised himself out of insanity, which seems contrary to that old proverb, "If you think you're insane, you probably aren't." He must have been INTP. Or J. (But I vote P b/c I don't want you guys to score another point).

I also know other people who knew they were insane when they were insane. This makes me wonder if I AM insane when I suspect I am. And I think I am, but that puts me one step ahead of my insanity. So there, insanity! I know you're there! You can't fool me!


On another note, I like this question, "Why is it that when someone talks to God it's called prayer but when God answers it's called insanity?" Some of the things the prophets did in the Bible seemed pretty bizarre, yes. However, they did all make sense in the context of their messages. And they were according to the scriptures... Opposed to insanity where Jesus comes down and tells you that Satan needs a sperm donor and meanwhile, leave your kids at Disneyland or something. So, we are responsible to gage what we think God says, according to reality.

[Provoker]

I characterize insanity as one who's divorced from their own mind. For example, when s-types turn to the Bible or any textbook as the ultimate source of authority they lose the ability to judge things for themselves. Once you become divorced from your own judgement, and consider it inferior to that of a book, you are stripped of all your defenses and your mind is no longer your friend. Once your mind is no longer your friend you are on a slippery path to insanity. Terrorists are a perfect example as they will sacrifice themselves for an idea embedded in a textbook. One might make the argument that s-types represent wide-spread insanity.

I'm not certain one can over know forsure whether or not they're insane. In many ways we are immune to ourselves, it's hard to be objective with respect to the self and make that kind of diagnosis.

[elsdfr]

I guess it what kind of insanity they are suffering. Some insane people are constantly told they are insane so when they are lucid they will probably agree. But if they are in the midst of an episode getting them to admit it isn't going to happen.

What bothers me is who or how they decide. There are many high functioning insane people in society I guess. The ones that are committed are usually because they are deemed to be dangerous to society. Provided you can see and rationalise this danger I think you're fine.

[INTJgal]

Originally Posted by Nomad To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I have a friend who is a psychologist and she tells me there is no medical definition of "normal". I've heard also the the DSM-IV does not define normal. I agree fully that mental illness does exist, and it should be treated, however my friend opined that much of what comes across as mental illness under current definitions, might simply be normal mechanisms kicking in to try to deal with stressors that we were simply not designed for. Road rage is on a steep rise in the US, and it seems it might be linked to the fact that Americans are the most sleep deprived people in the world. All stress is cumulative, and eventually something has to give. It's an interesting idea. -Nomad

I just finished a test on this about 12 minutes ago
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
From Seligman's Abnormal Psychology Text 4th Edition p. 20-24

No such thing as "abnormal" b/c there's no trait that's always/never there in "normal" people and the opposite in "abnormal".

Things to look for:

1. Suffering (eg: depressed person hurts. Not a necessary condition of abnormality.)
2. Maladaptiveness (interferes with life; ability to achieve goals). THe more harmful the dysfunction, the clearer the abnormality.
3. Irrationality (some behavior seems to have no rational meaning e.g. an earnest and cooperative patient who also "exhibited an irresistable tendency to sort objects on the desk and on the experimenter's person, as well as parts of the room, things he pulled from his pockets, and even the experimenter himself, whom the patient recommended be remade of wood and cut into blocks")
4. Unpredictability & loss of control ("Don, the mild-mannered exec, adores his wife on Monday, but pummels her brutally on Tuesday")
5. Rareness & Unconventionality (not universal nor necessarily abnormal, but another thing to think about)
6. Observer Discomfort (self-explanatory)
7. Violation of Standards (behavior assessed against moral standards and idealized norms that are "believed to characterize all right-thinking and right-acting people"... regardless of the fact that often they are not universally found in modern society)





INTJgal added to this post, 4 minutes and 3 seconds later...

Originally Posted by Provoker To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I characterize insanity as one who's divorced from their own mind. For example, when s-types turn to the Bible or any textbook as the ultimate source of authority they lose the ability to judge things for themselves. Once you become divorced from your own judgement, and consider it inferior to that of a book, you are stripped of all your defenses and your mind is no longer your friend. Once your mind is no longer your friend you are on a slippery path to insanity. Terrorists are a perfect example as they will sacrifice themselves for an idea embedded in a textbook. One might make the argument that s-types represent wide-spread insanity. I'm not certain one can over know forsure whether or not they're insane. In many ways we are immune to ourselves, it's hard to be objective with respect to the self and make that kind of diagnosis.

a little overdramatic, eh?

on a separate note, re: those who are ultra-religious...
that's not insane, that's closed-minded. which CAN lead to being insane. or just a very dull, lifeless person.

[JTG]

I recently came to the realization that i meet several criteria for schizophrenia. I wonder if i really have the disorder or if it's just eccentricities in my personality that cause some of the symptoms. Either way, i spend most of my time alone, so in the words of Nirvana:

I'm so happy
Because today i found my friends
They're in my head

[aok]

I'm responding to the initial thread. According to that theory, which I have questioned myself, it seems the most reliable way to maintain sanity is to maintain that you are crazy. Therefore, no one can claim that you are insane.

[AgentofGaming]

Originally Posted by INTJgal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Things to look for: 1. Suffering (eg: depressed person hurts. Not a necessary condition of abnormality.) 2. Maladaptiveness (interferes with life; ability to achieve goals). THe more harmful the dysfunction, the clearer the abnormality. 3. Irrationality (some behavior seems to have no rational meaning e.g. an earnest and cooperative patient who also "exhibited an irresistable tendency to sort objects on the desk and on the experimenter's person, as well as parts of the room, things he pulled from his pockets, and even the experimenter himself, whom the patient recommended be remade of wood and cut into blocks") 4. Unpredictability & loss of control ("Don, the mild-mannered exec, adores his wife on Monday, but pummels her brutally on Tuesday") 5. Rareness & Unconventionality (not universal nor necessarily abnormal, but another thing to think about) 6. Observer Discomfort (self-explanatory) 7. Violation of Standards (behavior assessed against moral standards and idealized norms that are "believed to characterize all right-thinking and right-acting people"... regardless of the fact that often they are not universally found in modern society)

#2 is rather strong for me.
My parents/grandparents have repetitively provoked me on that one.
It's kind of ironic my response was, "If I'm so socially inept, why don't you get me a psychiatrist".
I don't like having this issue but I sort of accepted it is there already.
What should one do?...

[Provoker]

	Originally Posted by INTJgal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	a little overdramatic, eh? on a separate note, re: those who are ultra-religious... that's not insane, that's closed-minded. which CAN lead to being insane. or just a very dull, lifeless person.

I disagree. It's neither closed nor open minded. It's often unminded; it's herd.

[pavman]

	Originally Posted by Femme de Homme INTJ To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	...This makes me wonder if I AM insane when I suspect I am. And I think I am, but that puts me one step ahead of my insanity. So there, insanity! I know you're there! You can't fool me!

Kick a$$ awesome!

	Originally Posted by Provoker To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	...when s-types turn to the Bible or any textbook as the ultimate source of authority...

Next time ask them where in the Bible it says the Bible is the ultimate source of authority...

	Originally Posted by INTJgal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	on a separate note, re: those who are ultra-religious...that's not insane, that's closed-minded. which CAN lead to being insane. or just a very dull, lifeless person.

Hmm, I guess it depends on your definition of ultra-religious. Most religious people are fairly open-minded, they just adhere to a set of moral rules that define what is acceptable, and unacceptable, behavior. I find the most close-minded folks to be the ones who say they're open-minded...especially in the realm of Christianity. Usually there's some underlying reason why they've rejected it that has nothing to do with their own analysis of the topic at hand. But yes, there are *some* religious folks who are definitely loony.

My father was insane. Yep, I can admit it. I didn't really know him...however, he used to do crazy things...like throw himself from moving cars. This was before the age of medication to combat the illness. He eventually ended his life at the business end of my grandfather's shotgun (grandfather on my mother's side).

So I ask myself if I'm insane a lot. So far I've concluded that I'm not; however, I've often said I dance along that line that separates genius from insanity. Ironically, because I've known about this my whole life, I don't take myself too seriously as a way to combat what I perceived to be the problem with him, even if I never knew him. Perhaps I am insane. C'est la vie.

Two really good movies to "feel" what insanity is like are The Assassination of Richard Nixon and, recently, He Was a Quiet Man. OMG were those great acting jobs! You really do "feel" the insanity when you put yourself into the protagonist's position.

[Tokey41]

Insane people don't know they are insane, it's as simple as that. There are many reasons why it's not possible but the main one being that we can (in theory and this happens quite a bit with insane people) question everything but our mind/thoughts themselves.

[yondyr]

I've noticed that many schizophrenics tend to have a happy hallucinogenic mind, but a neglected body while doing without medication, and they're a walking victim. When on meds, they're brought down to a glazed dull existence that they loathe, so go off the meds to bring back 'colour' into their lives.