[White Raven]

Two hallmarks of giftedness are overexciteabilities (being exquisitely sensitive to sensate things -- smells, textures, tastes, emotions, etc.), extreme inquisitiveness, and unusual empathy/intrapersonal flexibility.
Would this explain an almost equal development in S, F, and P functions, even though there's a measurable N, T, and J preference?

[PHS Philip]

I think we've had a couple threads about giftedness before, although not specifically about this part of it.

I think you'll still have uneven development of functions, although they would probably be more balanced than most people. On the other hand, I think that mistyping would be a problem, especially for S gifted kids, because giftedness looks a lot like N. Then again, it may just be one set of people that fits the label in addition to other sets. It's hard to say.

It also comes down to experience. Certain aspects of personality might actually be underdeveloped (at least relative to how the rest develop) because giftedness isn't exactly a great way to make friends in the American school system, and it's often ignored. So you have a lot of bullying too, and that may affect the type you would develop.

[BigAaron]

wow never heard of this "giftedness" explain more please...ive tested as INTJ and ISTP before and seem to match this overexciteablitily inquisitiveness, and ive always been unusually empathetic. I was actually in a class "T.A.G." Talented and Gifted in the 4th grade but due to how bad american school system is i quickly realized being "gifted" didnt make anything better so i quit.

[Luthor Rex]

	Originally Posted by BigAaron To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	wow never heard of this "giftedness" explain more please...ive tested as INTJ and ISTP before and seem to match this overexciteablitily inquisitiveness, and ive always been unusually empathetic. I was actually in a class "T.A.G." Talented and Gifted in the 4th grade but due to how bad american school system is i quickly realized being "gifted" didnt make anything better so i quit.

Gifted-ness is generally considered an IQ score of 130 or over (the top 2%).

You can find some good websites with articles here:


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[PHS Philip]

	Originally Posted by Luthor Rex To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Gifted-ness is generally considered an IQ score of 130 or over (the top 2%). You can find some good websites with articles here: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Although even that's not entirely agreed on. It depends on whose definition you're using. Some of them define it as something that you would have in addition to IQ, some define it in terms of IQ (for lack of a better measure). It's a pretty under researched area of psychology.

[White Raven]

Especially since IQ tests are often imprecise to the tune of ten points.

[Luthor Rex]

	Originally Posted by PHS Philip To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Although even that's not entirely agreed on. It depends on whose definition you're using. Some of them define it as something that you would have in addition to IQ, some define it in terms of IQ (for lack of a better measure). It's a pretty under researched area of psychology.

Yes I've seen those who try to define it without IQ. You're right that more research needs to be done, but there is already a good amount out there. This isn't as mysterious as the general public is led to believe.

In fact some research into brains reveals:

So far, says Haier, he has found a strong correlation between intelligence and the size and shape of certain brain structures -- including parts of the superior parietal lobe (involved in sensory perception) and parts of the prefrontal cortex (associated with complex thinking, personality, planning, coordination). Intelligence research is full of surprises. For example, the brains of smarter people, as measured by IQ, tend to be less active but more efficient, Haier says.

	Originally Posted by White Raven To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Especially since IQ tests are often imprecise to the tune of ten points.

Could you please post a link where you got this research from? Thanks.

[Firebrand]

	Originally Posted by PHS Philip To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Although even that's not entirely agreed on. It depends on whose definition you're using. Some of them define it as something that you would have in addition to IQ, some define it in terms of IQ (for lack of a better measure). It's a pretty under researched area of psychology.

No, there's various 15-point ranges of IQ with names for them; one of them being 130-145 being called "Gifted". From 145-160 is called "Highly gifted". One source (and an awesome source of information on this in general) is this :
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. This is also very good :

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[PHS Philip]

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No, there's various 15-point ranges of IQ with names for them; one of them being 130-145 being called "Gifted". From 145-160 is called "Highly gifted". One source is this : To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I know. MG, HG, PG (moderately, highly, profoundly, although sometimes it's MG, EG (exceptionally), HG, PG, or MG HG EG PG). But it's not agreed upon that IQ is really the best measure, especially because it can't deal well with 2E (twice exceptional, which means that you have both a learning disability and very high intelligence). IQ is just one way of measuring intelligence, remember, it's not intelligence itself. And although it's been taken far beyond the research in our culture, there are distinct (related, but still distinct) components to intelligence. IQ tests try to account for that, but they aren't ideal for it, and their final score doesn't. (I know the WISC uses verbal, perceptual, and processing, I dunno about the other tests)

[Firebrand]

Right, with "gifted" being considered an ability rather than an IQ range because having IQ does not necessarily mean you'll use it (Marilyn vos Savant for example). I question the 2E part though as I think high proclivity in certain areas can come across as a learning disability to traditional academic educational systems.

I'm curious, though, what your definition of intelligence is as Dictionary.com reports the definition as
"1. capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
2. manifestation of a high mental capacity: He writes with intelligence and wit.
3. the faculty of understanding."

Are you referring to Howard Gardner's "Frames of Mind" theory of multiple intelligences (
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From what I've read, the standard IQ tests measure 2 of the 7 types he proposes. I also propose "Artistic" as an 8th type.


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[PHS Philip]

To be honest, I'm not exactly sure how to define my use of it. I guess what I'm using it for is overall mental capability, the different areas of it being things that are used for different sorts of tasks (with some overlap between them).

Sort of. There were a few different people who worked in that area whose research has been pretty badly distorted into things it isn't (which is what has led to the "everyone is gifted" stuff).

I guess in that view of intelligence, giftedness would best be defined as being well above ordinary in most or all of the different areas, although of course still much stronger in some areas than others.

I think that there are problems with the multiple intelligence research, but I think that they are probably at least partially right. Certainly there are different components to intelligence, but claiming that they are independent of each other is a stretch (from what I know, at least). There's interdependence between them. For instance, linguistic ability seems to be one of the few constants in gifted kids.

As for 2E, there are some disorders that are pretty much unrelated to it, but that in some cases are present in the same person. I guess a simple example is dyslexia.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by PHS Philip To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think that there are problems with the multiple intelligence research, but I think that they are probably at least partially right. Certainly there are different components to intelligence, but claiming that they are independent of each other is a stretch (from what I know, at least). There's interdependence between them. As for 2E, there are some disorders that are pretty much unrelated to it, but that in some cases are present in the same person. I guess a simple example is dyslexia.

There definitely is some overlap and I think they are ultimately interdependent. But the multiple intelligences theory is more of a set of overlapping circles with the person's individual intelligence going over some to various degrees and not touching certain others.

As far as the dyslexia, I think this may have more to do with someone being right-brained dominant as there is a lot of crossover in symptoms between that, visual-spacial learners, ADD, and out-of-order processing of information. This may not be a disorder at all, merely a brain preference that the general public needs a label for so they can treat it with medication rather than coming up with strategies so that these people can learn to direct their brains in linear order when needed. Read all those links I put up. They're a gold mine of information. I just posted another thread with all my links on the subject matter so feel free to add any other links or information you've gathered there as I'd like to get everyone's input on the subject matter if possible.

[PHS Philip]

Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

There definitely is some overlap and I think they are ultimately interdependent. But the multiple intelligences theory is more of a set of overlapping circles with the person's individual intelligence going over some to various degrees and not touching certain others. As far as the dyslexia, I think this may have more to do with someone being right-brained dominant as there is a lot of crossover in symptoms between that, visual-spacial learners, ADD, and out-of-order processing of information. This may not be a disorder at all, merely a brain preference that the general public needs a label for so they can treat it with medication rather than coming up with strategies so that these people can learn to direct their brains in linear order when needed. Read all those links I put up. They're a gold mine of information. I just posted another thread with all my links on the subject matter so feel free to add any other links or information you've gathered there as I'd like to get everyone's input on the subject matter if possible.

Well, true dyslexia is really an inability of the brain to store units smaller than words accurately (they literally can't keep the letters ordered in their memory without enormous amounts of rote learning). There are other, more mild things that get called dyslexia though.

Most of the sites I know are specific to education. I'll see if I can find a few good general articles.

[Firebrand]

	Originally Posted by PHS Philip To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well, true dyslexia is really an inability of the brain to store units smaller than words accurately (they literally can't keep the letters ordered in their memory without enormous amounts of rote learning). There are other, more mild things that get called dyslexia though. Most of the sites I know are specific to education. I'll see if I can find a few good general articles.

Right, this could just be due to brain biases though and out of the human need to categorize people so we can ultimately put everyone into a box called "normal", we come up with labels for things and then, typically, drug them, which more often than not destroys elements of these people's creativity.

[PHS Philip]

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Right, this could just be due to brain biases though and out of the human need to categorize people so we can ultimately put everyone into a box called "normal", we come up with labels for things and then, typically, drug them, which more often than not destroys elements of these people's creativity.

Well, dyslexia isn't treated with drugs. It's treated with specialized education. The problem is that many school districts don't make any attempt to make a program that takes into account both aspects.

[Kisai]

I know a really smart guy who is the head of a software tools team for a major network routing company. He is a masterful programmer and migrated 3000 engineers from Solaris to a Linux base that looks exactly like the Solaris kernel.

His MBTI? ESFP.

[PHS Philip]

	Originally Posted by Kisai To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I know a really smart guy who is the head of a software tools team for a major network routing company. He is a masterful programmer and migrated 3000 engineers from Solaris to a Linux base that looks exactly like the Solaris kernel. His MBTI? ESFP.

Yep. I think one of the big impacts on personality giftedness has is that, although you have a dominant type, you can develop and use other aspects of your personality much more easily and significantly. That's why I wonder if correlations with MBTI are really just the product of mistyping because certain aspects of it seem to do the same thing as I and N, even though they aren't the same thing.