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ISTJ/INTJ relationships - do they work? intj and istj
Old 12-04-2008, 08:25 PM   #51
iamnotspock
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Impossible to say how much is *her* and how much is ISTJ but here's what I found:

Pros
-----
- totally down to earth, no emotional BS
- not flaky, very reliable
- paid her half of everything
- neat and organized
- adventurous
- good analysis

Cons
------
- Wanted to be friends w/ benefits, not into real relationships
- Many sex partners, boring sex
- Critical of EVERYTHING from how a random person is dressed to how my apt. is setup
- Thinks all words have only one proper pronunciation
- Sex is all about touching her or there, the physical; not the emotional or intellectual (as in power exchange)
- Foul-mouthed and unfeminine (tries to be in charge, too much of a tom boy)
- Boring Conversations, no big ideas
- No sense of humor
- Fear of emotional intimacy
- Talks way too much
- Addicted to cigarettes, coffee, sex, and anything else that stimulates the S

In the end all she wanted from me was sex, and boring sex at that. She was afraid to let anyone past her emotional guard and never had a real relationship before. And when I tried to show her what that's about I got suddenly dumped via email with a bunch of empty platitudes. I'm sure she was doing a new guy the next morning.
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Old 12-10-2008, 02:48 AM   #52
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Whoa.

I could possibly write a novel on INTJ/ISTJ relationships.

My long-term ex (We dated for nearly 4 years, and have not completely ruled out the possibility of getting back together sometime), and current best friend, is an ISTJ.

So, yeah, I think the ISTJ/INTJ combo works. Obviously it has it's pitfalls. We are both emotionally distant bastards, which was usually ok with both of us, though did more often become an issue for me than it did for him. It takes a lot of work, in some ways.

But, it's also easily the most comfortable relationship I have with anyone. I don't have to pretend to feel things which I do not around him. I do not have to censor my tendency to be a prick, because he can handle it. And, we respect each other, damn it, which is more than either of us can say for 98% of people we meet.

And yes, they are very similar personality types, so there isn't a lot of room for growth, but still...I think there is some. In this particular relationship, I believe I provide the silliness in his life, though not so much as to annoy him, while he provides the considerateness in mine, and inspires me to think more of other peoples wants/needs as I am usually just in my own little world.

And I suppose I do get bored with him sometimes. But I just have to remind myself that bored is better than annoyed, and retreat into my head for awhile, or throw myself into other friendships for a bit...and my physical/mental distance does not bother him. In fact, I often suspect I am not gone enough for his comfort.

Oh! We did live together for a brief period, and it was not unbearable, but he was exceptionally anal. I am fairly anal as well, but he takes it to a whole new level. So, you may have to cater to some very meticulous quirks, but if you can hang with that it's really not so bad.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:55 PM   #53
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  Originally Posted by raz1337
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Haha. How much of that was analogy and how much was real?
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1. I'm thinking the S/N difference is really hard. My mind is focused on the past and present. Yours is focused on the future. We make great partners for a project, but in a relationship? Hum.

2. I have a friend that's an INTJ. We both get along really well. I think it's the Te that makes us look at the world logically so we get along on that front. However, she's more imaginative than me. Take for example, our varying experiences in our classes. I had to read something in front of the class, and got in trouble for being too "thorough." She had to write a paper, and got in trouble for generalizing too much. I can see it when I talk to her, that I take a lot of what she says literally.

3. She said in one class that she was making "yo mama" jokes at work and offended someone whose mother passed away. As soon as I heard her say that she was even making those jokes, my interest in her faded a bit because I just saw those jokes as childish. The fact that she was interested in those jokes bothered me more than the fact that she offended someone.

Recently, I am working and sitting with a married female ISTJ. She admired my previous work and I had to move because one side of the room is a loud box. So I asked nicely to my supervisor about my intj side-effects[I even got a option to move out of the room] and had it moved next to her. I wanted to contribute more in a group effort because this is what I lack? Plus, I am not good at socializing skills. Maybe learning something new.

Back to no.1; it is very difficult to tell the difference between the S/N. Although, its similar someone understand all the details, while the other see the surroundings. The end result should be the same. We'd agree most of the times, so there won't be a fight. It's difficult to tell someone said something is literal or non-literal. To make communications much more clearer before it happens explain if Do you really meant what had been said or not? [Note: Both agreed on this it's your judgement call 50/50 chance]

No.2: My female ISTJ will mentioned about the highest score, while I don't really pay attention to it. I didn't ignore her importance of high rankings. But I do harbor on this if you really wanted to be the true no.1 then follow my instructions specs planned out made specially for just you. Then, no one can beat you except for me. I understand the reason why? I don't need to enforce it. I made a honest comment,"There will be someone better than you out there. So there is no true no.1 person."

No.3: As mentioned, jokes are hard to tell from apart because we are too literal sometimes. It might be too cold or just for the spare moments. I don't mind working with an istj because there will be times where an istj gets some N once or twice. Might be wondering how come? Yeah, the frustration does comes out and shows. For Intjs, we tend to mellow the frustrations. ISTJs my guess doesn't mind showing it. Intellect is very important on their priority list too, as well do we. Who wanted to answered the same question over and over again? Seriously.

So far, I am cool with ISTJs, if they needed space. I glad to give it to him/her. Suggest a nice spot to go to.

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Old 12-16-2008, 06:31 AM   #54
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  Originally Posted by cprogess
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I was wondering how INTJs feel about dating ISTJs? It seems like this is an unlikely paring, though as an ISTJ myself I have many close relationships with both INTJs and INTPs (my father is an INTJ). Have any INTJs had a relationship with ISTJs, if so how did that work out? What were some of the pitfalls and what were the benefits? Does anyone know if there is an ISTJ forum?

I had an ISTJ roommate for three semesters, and while we certainly were not romantically interested (:D), he was a great friend and an awesome roommate. We got along quite well, which I think attests to a certain degree of compatibility between ISTJs and INTJs.

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Old 12-16-2008, 07:13 AM   #55
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hmm. well the only ISTJ I know of is my mother and were constantly arguing over petty things. She realises most of the time I don't beleive I did anything wrong when she punishes me and I realize that punishment does not show results for myself when I know I did not do anything wrong and endure the punishment. She has started to realize that I don't think I did anything wrong, however she still isn't sure what exactly she should do in this situation.
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:38 AM   #56
umm
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I tend to think that when ISTJs and INTJs are equals in a relationship or friendship they can coexist very easily and stress free. Both value directness, competence, and loyalty. They also easily respect and understand the other's autonomy and need for space.

Any parental relationship, regardless of type, will be more difficult simply because there is an imbalance of power and experience. The dynamics in peer-to-peer relationships are very different from parent-to-child.
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Old 12-23-2008, 12:45 AM   #57
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Obviously, from the above posts it is possible for INTJ/ISTJ relationship to work out.
But, for the fun of it, here's my personal experience with the relationship.
One my best friends is an ISTJ, and we get alone extraordinary well. We share lots of jokes, and like to go on "adventures" together. We are also both intelligent and can have fun conversations.
However, we tried dating, and it just didn't work. He seemed to become a different person in the relationship.

And here is where I'm going to bring in the gender difference.
I think male ISTJ and female INTJ is much less likely to work than female ISTJ and male INTJ.
The ISTJ tends to beleive in traditional gender roles. This works out great if you're a male INTJ, you have someone to cook and clean for you and will let you be in charge. However, if your a female INTJ with a male ISTJ, watch out! He may want you to act the traditional female role and let him "wear the pants."

Oh, and the Hamburger Helper scenario is the most hilarious literal analogy I have read in a while. It's so true!
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:01 PM   #58
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Man, I'm so glad this thread exists. I recently entered into a relationship with an ISTJ (me = female INTJ). I've never has this experience of being so similar to a person yet having such polar opposite interests and viewpoints before (that seems almost contradictory...). It sometimes feels like we're either freakishly similar, or wildly opposite but really not much in between those. We get along pretty well and have a similar sense of humor so we keep each other laughing and also we're both information junkies so we're always trading interesting information.

Despite the positives, the biggest division between us is that he enjoys doing mainstream things whereas I am a contrarian who tends to purposely avoid doing what the majority does. He is a total sucker for celebrating things like holidays and insists that it's the traditions and having common goals with a larger group (whether it be politics, sports, whatever) is very important, even if done ironically. I don't see the big deal with holidays or the importance of camaraderie with a group, not just because I'm introverted but because I'm an arrogant critical-thinking snob who looks down on the sheeple and their silly oblivious ways (hehe, sort of kidding...sort of...). Strangely enough, my ISTJ is even more introverted than me, yet he values so much this whole celebrating holidays/involve yourself in mainstream traditions.

For those who are more brushed up on the nuances of MB types -- what letter or letter combination is the cause of this difference between us. Is it the S vs. N, or something else? Also, is contrarianism and/or a disdain or skepticism for mainstream traditions a commonly found trait in the INTJ population or is it just me?
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:03 AM   #59
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From what I've read, the INTJ is much more likely than a lot of other types to look at a tradition and ask "Why?" critically. If he/she doesn't find a suitable reason for its existence, it gets changed or tossed aside. I am actually clueless as to why more people don't do this, it seems natural to me.
Anyway, I'm still mighty skeptical of the whole MB typing thing, but then I read a post like yours. You could be describing the relationship with my ISTJ friend exactly. Freaky.
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:31 AM   #60
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  Originally Posted by wotrabbit
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Man, I'm so glad this thread exists. I recently entered into a relationship with an ISTJ (me = female INTJ). I've never has this experience of being so similar to a person yet having such polar opposite interests and viewpoints before (that seems almost contradictory...). It sometimes feels like we're either freakishly similar, or wildly opposite but really not much in between those. We get along pretty well and have a similar sense of humor so we keep each other laughing and also we're both information junkies so we're always trading interesting information.

Despite the positives, the biggest division between us is that he enjoys doing mainstream things whereas I am a contrarian who tends to purposely avoid doing what the majority does. He is a total sucker for celebrating things like holidays and insists that it's the traditions and having common goals with a larger group (whether it be politics, sports, whatever) is very important, even if done ironically. I don't see the big deal with holidays or the importance of camaraderie with a group, not just because I'm introverted but because I'm an arrogant critical-thinking snob who looks down on the sheeple and their silly oblivious ways (hehe, sort of kidding...sort of...). Strangely enough, my ISTJ is even more introverted than me, yet he values so much this whole celebrating holidays/involve yourself in mainstream traditions.

For those who are more brushed up on the nuances of MB types -- what letter or letter combination is the cause of this difference between us. Is it the S vs. N, or something else? Also, is contrarianism and/or a disdain or skepticism for mainstream traditions a commonly found trait in the INTJ population or is it just me?

Yes, it's the S vs N.

SJ's value tradition very strongly. Questioning tradition is an INTJ trait. Sounds like a bad fit, however, on the plus side, if things make sense they are usually acceptable to INTJs. So you two can probably work out some compromises, the fact that something is important to him can be enough to get you to accept some of those traditions, for his sake.

I have an SJ husband and have to make these kinds of compromises all the time. Some traditions are actually not so bad, really.
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He compromises too, and accepts that there are some I just cannot embrace, so it's up to him to send out birthday cards, and forgive me when I forget our anniversary, etc.

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Old 01-01-2009, 06:46 AM   #61
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I'm learning so much from this thread
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As the ISTJ wife to an INTJ, I most certainly am in charge of keeping the checkbook balanced to the penny, paying all the bills ON TIME and making sure the kids are in bed at a regular, decent time. If I've ever been late to work, there must have been an amazing reason. I honestly can't remember it happening. Ever.

However, the holiday traditions thing has me stumped. It must just be me, but I HATE holiday traditions. I could happily do away with all holidays, as well as birthday and anniversary celebrations. I never send cards and only buy presents for children. My husband buys for everyone, including the neighbor kids. Also, my INTJ husband is the most boring sexual partner! I'd love to try new things, but after 18 years of attempts I've pretty much given up. I certainly don't feel any draw to traditional male/female roles and am quite comfortable being in charge of my household. As for the "meat helper" I have to admit that I'd probably not think to make Tuna Helper with chicken. BUT, my INTJ husband would NEVER do that. He might add a bag of frozen veggies or a different spice, but he'd never make tuna helper with chicken. LOL.
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Old 01-01-2009, 06:19 PM   #62
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After reading this thread...Sriv, you had better watch out, eh?
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Old 01-01-2009, 09:48 PM   #63
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  Originally Posted by INTJoe
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I'm an INTJ male and I live with an ISTJ girl and we've been dating for 9 years, living together about 2-3.

Our relationship is quite silly sometimes, but it works and I think it will work for the long haul. The N/S difference is certainly difficult at times. But I like the difference. Where I'm the messy, genius, planner-type who envisions our future together and figures out how it will work, she's working "behind the scenes", paying the bills on time, keeping the house tidy, cooking, etc. She's very practical and loyal and low-maintenance and I really love and appreciate that about her.


  Originally Posted by curiousjane
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As I've mentioned elsewhere on this forum, my dad is an ISTJ and my mom is an INTJ. They have a rock-solid marriage of 29 years.

Of course, they aren't without their conflicts. I think it really is the S/N thing that is most difficult for them. My mom can dream up complex goals and possibilities (starting a business, investing, ways to raise the kids) and my dad will fixate on the details he doesn't like.

Other than that ... it is their love and commitment and strength of character that has kept them together. And I admire that about them.

  Originally Posted by patata
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That's the truth. The N/S barrier is really difficult to deal with, but when both partners are mature and they have the will to stay together and commit, things will go fine.

INTJoe described the relationship my husband (who is an ISTJ) and I have perfectly. We have been together for almost 7 years now. The N/S conflict matters less as the years go on. In order for any relationship to work, the focus has to be on how you can overcome differences rather than on the irritating qualities of your significant other.

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Old 01-02-2009, 07:33 AM   #64
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I am an INTJ male, and my wife is an ISTJ. I agree with a lot of what has been said in this thread. We have a fairly "comfortable" relationship, where she does a lot of the practical things around the house while I spend a lot of time planning and analyzing how we could improve things.

The S/N difference does produce some misunderstandings. At worst, there are times when I think we lack a "deep" relationship - different priorities and difference understandings of things that we encounter. However, we overall have a strong relationship - I think, in part, because we help support the other's weaknesses - I definitely like having someone organized to remind me to pay the bills. Also, my wife is a relatively open minded and intellectual ISTJ (she is a scientist with a PhD), and I have learned, over the years, to appreciate the sensory aspects of life, including some traditions.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:18 AM   #65
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I think that is not a good combination. So similar yet SOO different.
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:34 PM   #66
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By the way.. I definitely agree with the cooking stories. I love to improvise - I use a recipe as a "guideline" the first time I make something. Once I understand the role of the ingredients, I make changes to fit what I think would be better (or what I have in the fridge/cupboard) and quickly develop my own recipe. Although my ISTJ wife does a good job of cooking, it makes her nervous... she needs to have a precise recipe that she follows exactly.
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Old 01-13-2009, 01:01 PM   #67
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I've (INTJ) been married to my ISTJ husband for almost five years. We have an amazing relationship. We really cool discussions about stuff because we are both such strong T's we bounce ideas off of each other from our unique S vs. N perspectives. My husband is sometimes floored at how I put ideas together.

I do have to agree with the initial post that sometimes ISTJ can be so stick-in-the-mud as to how they want to do things. I always called it a genetic stubborness, but it's probably also his personality. There are also times when I say something and I feel like it went right over his head. Not becuause he's dumb, he's just not thinking about something the same way I do. We also have fights about the stupidest stuff sometimes, but the good thing is that because he's ISTJ, he won't let us go to bed angry. Which can be aggravating in the moment but I'm thankful for it.

Although, for my husband and I, I'm the one who is more organized and I have to make sure that he remembers to do stuff like pay the bills. Which since I'm an INTJ its a little like the blind leading the blind, but we make it work.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:59 AM   #68
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I can sum-up this difference in views with Hamburger Helper. There are Hamburger Helper, Chicken Helper, and Tuna Helper, all of which are just noodles and sauce without the meat, even if the noodles and sauce are the same, i.e. Tuna Helper Alfredo and Chicken Helper Alfredo. As an INTJ, I see all of them as just "Meat Helper", and I will interchange them as desired. I'm even daring enough to use turkey, shrimp, or crab. I first noticed this phenomenon when I had a box of Tuna Helper Alfredo and proceeded to prepare it with chicken. My ISTJ friend was totally bewildered and horrified by this. He does everything he can to convince me that I should follow the directions on the box. He even questions whether I should be using ground or canned meat, and it horrifies him if I adjust the cooking time to take into consideration that his stove and oven burn a little hot. Sometimes I cook the meat on the stove and then finish the "Meat Helper" according to the microwave instructions. The box doesn't say that it's okay to do that!

I had a needed laugh at this, thanks. It's good.
The cooking time you are sensible in adjusting, IMHO.
I have always worked under the assumption that the flavor or sauce packets are designed to harmonize with the variety of meat cited on the box (which may be purchased in the form that you desire).
So you may get seafood flavored sauce with the Fish Helper which might not taste good with the Cow Helper. Or Fowl Helper.
So I'd consider that Turkey was Ok to put in the Fowl Helper or Lamb or Pork in the Cow Helper, or Scallops in the Fish Helper.
But not Hamburger in the Tuna Helper because of the particular blend of flavors in the sauce.
But if is edible, no one will really care.

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Old 02-17-2009, 02:31 AM   #69
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My dad is an ISTJ who recently scored 100% J. He drives me completely bonkers. I have wished so many times that I could understand what's going on in his head, but I don't think I ever will. In my experience, he's unable to have a conversation without saying something critical or competitive; however, he seems to believe he is the pinnacle of humility. (He was raised Catholic and later became a Protestant. As a child, he slept in a burlap sack during Lent of his own volition and planned to become a priest.)

Before he and my mom (an INFJ) got married, his mother warned my mom, "There's something you need to know about ---. He's just so RIGHT." My parents divorced after nearly 25 years of marriage. My mom was the one who wanted out.

My dad is particularly critical of my ENFP husband and my sister's ESFP boyfriend. He makes subtle snide comments in their presence to imply that they're not very intelligent or that they're immoral or maybe have a screw loose. Needless to say, I'm sure one of the major reasons I chose an ENFP partner was my desire for the polar opposite of my father.

I also had a supervisor once who I believe is an ISTJ. Working for her was awful. She was disturbingly passive aggressive.

I did have a close friendship with an ISTJ for a few years, but we've since grown apart. I wouldn't mind seeing her again...we had a very weird and violent sense of humor in common.

So I'll have to say there may be something to the previous comments about power dynamics. An ISTJ who is an equal can be a good companion, but ISTJ bosses and parents (based on my tiny sampling) have great power to torment an INTJ (namely, this INTJ). That's not to say all or even most ISTJs in positions of authority are like my dad or former supervisor. I can't think of any other ISTJs I've known, though, aside from the three I mentioned.

One of the worst aspects of my relationship with my dad, too, is that for years he's been the only SJ in a family of NFs and NTs, so I've felt bad that his relationships with all of us were so filled with misunderstandings, especially since he's someone for whom family and tradition are extremely important. At least he has a new girlfriend now who I think might be an SJ!
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:23 PM   #70
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Old thread resurrection.

This is probably a bit off a tangent with my query but I thought it fits in with this thread the most (rather than creating yet another thread). I currently like what I believe is to be an ISTJ . But I'm curious as to how do ISTJ displays that they like someone?

And to contribute to the thread properly itself, my mother exhibits strong ISTJ characteristics and like you MsPronunciation we don't really get along quite well, thus the powers of torment exist quite strongly between me and my mother. But yet two of my really good friends are ISTJs and we get along really well.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:02 PM   #71
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ISTJs usually will exhibit that they like someone through traditional channels of romance. So, if they are male, they would ask you out on a date, hold doors for you, bring you gifts, pay for stuff, etc.

If they are female, they will openly flirt. On a date, they will appreciate traditional gifts such as flowers and traditional dating venues (dinner and a movie).
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:06 PM   #72
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  Originally Posted by INTJoe
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Often times, I feel as though she doesn't appreciate what I bring to the table. I'm viewed as a sort of lazy, messy, unhelpful dude who gets away with way too much as she would put it.

Ding.

  Originally Posted by INTJoe
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Another area we struggle is that she's always pointing out my shortcomings, and I NEVER point out hers. She knows it doesn't bother me much, but I do find it super annoying after a while. One day I just asked her "when was the last time I told you something you weren't good at, or tried to change you?" She couldn't think of one time, and I had to explain to her that I love her as she is, and she should do the same. I told her I know damn well what my shortcomings are, but having her point them out all the time is destructive and inefficient.

Ding.

Your whole post (and a bunch of other posts in this thread, but yours especially) rings a lot of bells with me, but these two points are especially dead on. Eerily so. This describes my ISTJ ex's underlying attitude towards me (as I perceived it, anyway) to a tee. Of course, I can also relate to a lot of good points about the ISTJ type that you and others bring up, but ultimately, the overwhelming feeling of not being truly appreciated for my good sides, while constantly being reminded of my bad sides was too much - even knowing her type didn't help that much; it didn't change the way she made me feel. Maybe if I had seen a thread like this back then, it would have made me realise even better just how little she could help her behaviour towards me - but I doubt it, really. I just became more and more convinced that she didn't really like the 'real' me, and that she was constantly trying to mould me into something more to her liking, while I never had any major complaints about her myself, and found her to be just fine as she was. More and more, I put up a sort of mask around her, distancing myself from her, treating her as a friend (and not a particularily close one, at that) more than a lover, almost morbidly afraid of letting her catch so much as a glimpse of my true colours. In the end, I found that I was pretty much living a lie, and that I would never be truly happy with her, let alone self-actualised - and that she was pretty much in the same position. So I ended it, and I don't regret that decision.

Anyway, on analysing the source of these problems, one finds that it really boils down to the differences between temperaments; NT vs. SJ - when one considers just how fundamentaly different these two temperaments are from each other, the fact that INTJ and ISTJ differ by 'only one' letter becomes much more significant.

I see the NT/SJ pairing as somewhat troublesome overall. NTs are abstract and usually very independent and self-sufficient at their cores (for instance, viewing romantic relationships as at least somewhat logically-based choice that reinforces the rest of their lives, rather than an essential basic need that they feel empty without), while SJs are down to earth, tend to view relationships after a more rigid and socially standardised fashion, and basically 'need to be needed' (in every sense of that term, especially when it comes to regular, somewhat standard reminders that they are indeed needed and appreciated; something NTs tend to be bad at, since their drive for efficiency and rationalism tends to lead them to cut the fat when it comes to tokens of affection and appreciation - the 'default' mode is that they are happy and content, and will tend to speak up only when they have something to complain about that needs fixing - see
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for a perfect example).

There's a whole host of problems that could stem from these fundamental differences in communication styles and core needs, but of course, any problem can be overcome, given the proper willingness and effort - but for me at least, I'm not sure it's really worth it. SJs just aren't my cup of tea, nor I theirs. I don't much savour the thought of getting into another relationship that has a negative feedback loop where my lack of steady tokens of appreciation leads to her being unhappy with me, which leads to her expressing said unhappiness through constant critisisms of my character (instead of simply understanding and expressing just what it is that she's unhappy about, which would be the NT way of going about it - but which I realise probably seems way too contrived and artificial to other temperaments, who like to take a more emotional and organic approach to relationships (this applies not least to SJs and their adherence to social norms), and I get that, really - if you want tokens of appreciation, you don't want to have to ask for them explicitly, as this would kind of ruin the whole point), which leads to me withdrawing further, etc. Because I just know that this is most likely what a relationship with another SJ would be like, even if I tried actively to break the loop.

It's remarkably hard to change your core values and the behaviour that stems from them. It's much easier to find and be with someone who just, well, shares those values, and truly gets you and isn't bothered by who you are, deep down.

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Old 05-19-2009, 11:09 PM   #73
Dave C C
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Every relationship based on consideration between both partners will work, personality profiles do not matter.
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:41 PM   #74
raz1337
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I admire their indifference to their environment and sharp intellect. It's what makes me keep being attracted to INTJ girls. ><
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Old 05-22-2009, 03:36 PM   #75
Chronos
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  Originally Posted by raz1337
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I admire their indifference to their environment and sharp intellect. It's what makes me keep being attracted to INTJ girls. ><

Heh, indifference to my environment is definitely one of the things that my ex did not find appealing about me. She called it 'lack of respect for one's environment'.

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