[MisterDonut]

I wish this one would work out, but it really didn't.. I started dating another INTJ, she started calling me to hang out, she even wanted to drive over my house so that we can go for coffee. I said i couldn't because i was seeing the other girl, but id idnt' tell her that i just said i couldn't.

well the new INTJ didn't really work out, we dated for 4 months, but there was a lot things between us, different expectations. she didnt made me feel loved, so in the end i needed to go. I gave everything i have and i still felt that it wasn't good enough. INn the end i was just very drained. she told me that she really liked me and that she was sorry for everything that she did, and all the things she didn't do. She coudln't really say it but i had to corner and trap her till she would admit it.

But that time, i was emotionally drained and was ready to leave. which i haven't talked to her for 2 weeks..

I been meeting a string of INTJ but somehow their lack of warmth scares me.

[Badger]

Not that I want you to dwell on the past, but as was stated before, your needs are going to be totally different from hers as an ENFP/INTJ, and how we (INTJ's) show we care is going to be in a totally different language than you.
My wife will speak it, I tend to display it. I am a planner, so I am constantly thinking 5 steps ahead about what she may need and making sure it is there for her. Also, I am constantly touching her, messaging her even though my brain is occupied with something else. But I almost never speak my feelings for her. She does almost the complete opposite.
Since we speak different languages (INTJ/ENFP?) there are plenty of times that we both question how much the other cares about them. I feel she doesn’t DO enough to show she cares, and that I am making all the effort through my actions, and she feels I don’t TELL her that I love her enough. Two totally different languages…..and if we hadn’t identified it early enough in the relationship might have caused some real problems.
So is there a chance you aren’t speaking the language?

[MisterDonut]

This is a summary of my last INTJ. The one i got with after the initial one that i started this thread on.

We hit it off beautifully!! It was the most mature cute relationship that i could imagine, something like from the movies. We got along really well, we went places and we just clicked on so many different levels.

She was caring and always involved a little in small aspects of my life, until we started dating officially. That was when she started pulling away from me. Even then We both thought we were soulmates.. she even asked me if i thought so, but not so directly. She hinted that she might think i was.. and i really thought we were.

anyways to make a story short. since we started dating, we still have good times, but i just feel that she started detaching herself from me emotionally. I couldn't handle it. i spent hours talking to her and writing her emails while at work explaining to her that we should try harder and how we can improve.

Everything fell on death ears until the day i wanted to break up... It wasn't that i want to break up with her, cus i care about her deeply, it was just that I was no longer able to have this kind of relationship we had. She was very understanding, so i allowed her to lead the relationship. and yet she took me to a very dark place. showed me a love that i couldn't really accept. In the process i felt really hurt, because she knew i gave her my world, and somehow i knew it wasn't enough.

She keeps telling me i dont' understand and said it was enough.. but everything was too late.
And on top its not like she could admit it, i had to force it out of her, because i was so unhappy by all the things that should didn't do for me.. I don't ask for much, but she didnt' give at all. she said she gave, but it was really not all that much.

I kept on telling her if she wasn't ready, don't get into a relationship.. we can be friends from the start, why would you want to be committed and not give.. this really bothers me

In the end, I tried speaking her language, but she refuse to speak mine.

[PurpleGiraffe]

Originally Posted by MisterDonut To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This is a summary of my last INTJ. The one i got with after the initial one that i started this thread on. We hit it off beautifully!! It was the most mature cute relationship that i could imagine, something like from the movies. We got along really well, we went places and we just clicked on so many different levels. She was caring and always involved a little in small aspects of my life, until we started dating officially. That was when she started pulling away from me. Even then We both thought we were soulmates.. she even asked me if i thought so, but not so directly. She hinted that she might think i was.. and i really thought we were. anyways to make a story short. since we started dating, we still have good times, but i just feel that she started detaching herself from me emotionally. I couldn't handle it. i spent hours talking to her and writing her emails while at work explaining to her that we should try harder and how we can improve. Everything fell on death ears until the day i wanted to break up... It wasn't that i want to break up with her, cus i care about her deeply, it was just that I was no longer able to have this kind of relationship we had. She was very understanding, so i allowed her to lead the relationship. and yet she took me to a very dark place. showed me a love that i couldn't really accept. In the process i felt really hurt, because she knew i gave her my world, and somehow i knew it wasn't enough. She keeps telling me i dont' understand and said it was enough.. but everything was too late. And on top its not like she could admit it, i had to force it out of her, because i was so unhappy by all the things that should didn't do for me.. I don't ask for much, but she didnt' give at all. she said she gave, but it was really not all that much. I kept on telling her if she wasn't ready, don't get into a relationship.. we can be friends from the start, why would you want to be committed and not give.. this really bothers me In the end, I tried speaking her language, but she refuse to speak mine.

Seriously, dude, that sounds draining as fuck. You spent hours talking to her and e-mailing her at work saying how you two should improve and ultimately complaining about how little she supposedly gave? Do you even know what an introvert looks like?

No wonder she started backing away. She needed to breathe.

Plus, you had only been dating for 4 MONTHS. We don't think in terms of months. We think in terms of years. The problem with the start of an ENFP/INTJ relationship is often that it's not sustainable. We aren't an ENFP. We aren't going to be like "YEAH, LET'S DO MORE! MORE! YEAH!" We get drained, we get fucking tired and cranky and whatever. You were not respecting her for her. You were respecting her for the person you wanted her to be, which she will never be. Either change your expectations of what you want or continue to walk because an INTJ =/= an ENFP.

Plus, plus, don't let someone lead a relationship somewhere, especially not an INTJ, because INTJs and ENFPs want and need very different things. What will make you happy will not make her happy and vice versa. To give her that responsibility means that you ultimately took no responsibility for your own happiness which is not good. Not good at all, my friend.

[Badger]

	Originally Posted by MisterDonut To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In the end, I tried speaking her language, but she refuse to speak mine.

And there it is......
I still don't speak my wife's language so much as understand it. I still don't 'tell' my wife how I feel, I still 'show' it. She doesn't 'show' me how she feels about me, she 'tells' me.

I will never speak her language; I would actually have to put in my day planner: Tell your WIFE you love her.
It is that unnatural to me.
My point on my first post was that when I feel neglected I catch myself by realizing she doesn’t speak my language and I learn to recognize how she expresses it in hers. But I don’t expect her to speak my language because I imagine it would be just as foreign to her as it would be for me to write a love poem.

---------- Post added 08-21-2012 at 02:54 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by PurpleGiraffe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Seriously, dude, that sounds draining as fuck. You spent hours talking to her and e-mailing her at work saying how you two should improve and ultimately complaining about how little she supposedly gave?

I was trying to be a bit more tactful than PG but yeah, I was picturing a three month old hyper golden-retriever puppy when I read your post.

[MisterDonut]

It was draining as Eff for me as well... I didn't need her to do anything, but simply acknowledging what i was saying and where i was coming from.
I expected her to at least comphrend that much, because she was one of the smartest girls i have ever met and that she read me like a book, but whenever i discuss things about us, she had a wall up.

And once again I made mistakes and had my flaws, but when you are in a relationship. all i am saying is to try, and be open to things that you never tried before. Because in the end We are all looking for love, a partner, and hopefully evolve to be a better person

in the end i really really do like her alot, but i can't help her understand what i need. I nee her to want understand my needs.

[PurpleGiraffe]

Yeah, sorry, I'm not always so tactful. Especially today. I'm emotionally a little meh...
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	Originally Posted by MisterDonut To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It was draining as Eff for me as well...

Not surprising. Emotionally draining relationships are generally draining for both sides.

	I didn't need her to do anything, but simply acknowledging what i was saying and where i was coming from. I expected her to at least comphrend that much, because she was one of the smartest girls i have ever met and that she read me like a book, but whenever i discuss things about us, she had a wall up.

So you expected her to be you and, therefore, know you? Sorry buddy, she wasn't you. She was very different. If you needed something, then you need to vocalize it with us. We aren't mind-readers. I've been called a lot of things. Stupid isn't one of those, but I'm not always perfect on reading myself or others. So, if you want or need something you have to say it - in clear actionable items. "I need a hug." "I need you to be willing to spend some time with my friends and I." "I need a snuggle." Whatever.

	in the end i really really do like her alot, but i can't help her understand what i need.

False. It is your job to make sure your needs are met. You have to think outside the box if you appear to be having trouble doing so.

	I nee her to want understand my needs.

And that is her job in the relationship. She isn't you. Just like it is her job to make sure her needs are met, it is your job to at least try to understand hers.

No relationship is perfect after 4 months, especially no INTJ/ENFP relationship. That shit seems to take ages to sort out. The importance is that the two are both willing to try.

[MisterDonut]

We have so much connection, that i don't want to tell her what to do all the time. All the small things that i need. I felt that that she would really take care of all my small needs, simply because every other girl that i have dated took care of it. It wasn't until much later on that i realize she wasn't coming through for me.

I mean for me personally i hate telling people what to do because i hate it when my exs require me to do certain things for them. Because maybe i was about to do those certain acts of kindness for them without them having to say a word, but once they said something, it no longer became what i wanted to do for them on my own, but instead fulfilling their request of what i should do for them.

in the end I wanted her to be open and listen to me..

PG you are right on many levels, but just like her, instead of listening to what i'm saying, you want to make your own point. I really appreciate your insight, in fact i keep checking back to see what you and others have written.

And the thing is, i refuse to feel like i did something wrong. Its a relationship for crying out loud, you give and you take. you and my exs response share something in common, It wasn't to address my needs, but instead to explain your own needs with your own agenda.

When i ask for a hug, i don't need you to give me a reason why hugs are detrimental to my health. after a while it just gets tiring.

meanwhile, i always acknowledge that i might not be right in what i do, and that i can always improve, but when you INTJ's refuse to even waver in your actions or thoughts. then the best thing is to break and maybe somehow let you guys gain a little insight, so that you can do better in ur next relationship. If something was learned in a relationship, all was not in vein.

[zeroemission]

	am constantly touching her, messaging her even though my brain is occupied with something else. But I almost never speak my feelings for her. She does almost the complete opposite. Since we speak different languages

yes, i've noticed that the only ENFP i know is OBSESSED with words! she likes word games, likes songs and hates instrumentals and loves karaoke, and thinks somewhere in the back ofher mind she can change another person's heart if only she can find the right words.

come to think of it, the other gal i suspect is an ENTP has a words fetish too, and introduced me to the term hegemony when i was on a social stratification/caste based/social climbing rant. i would never know what a quipe was if i didn't see it spelled out on her fridge in magnetic letters.

i hate words myself, they're the tools of lies. i like to say "to many otherwise great songs have been ruined because some fidiot had to go open their mouth" and mostly listen to instrumentals as it's the music that matters and not some story. there's a reason why musicals are pure torture to me... WORDS in place of action.

i can relate to this concept very much

i see my INTJ brothas and sistahs already covered the emotionally draining thing. i actually have a saying ready for such situations the next time they arise if i ever start getting involved with another emotional, thaough i'm sure only an INxx could ever make me happy enough to be the playful puppy no one has given me the safety to let out yet, and the one gal that started to, only got annoyed making emotional demands to "fall in love with her whether i felt it or not"
"you want to know how i feel? i feel annoyed that you constantly have to badger me about how i feel. i feel like you can't ever let a happy quiet moment be just that. you KNOW i'm not an emotional person, and yet you keep expecting me to be something i'm not. i WAS happy a few minutes ago with you cuddled up against me, but now you seem bent on ruining the moment. you wanted to know how i feel, well there it is."

	I felt that that she would really take care of all my small needs, simply because every other girl that i have dated took care of it. It wasn't until much later on that i realize she wasn't coming through for me.

you know, it sounds to me like you actually blame her for being what she is, just like irrationals, as i prefer to call them are ALWAYS doing calling us robots or even sociopaths because we don't meet your expectations of following social conventions that to us are stupid and pointless. instead of celebrating what makes her different from anyone else you've known, you resent it.

your definition of "coming through" for someone and an INTJs are very different. someone who has the social skills to appease you in the short term is also the same irrational and impulsive person that will drop your butt in a heartbeat the second someone who "comes through for them" (read pushes their buttons) better than you where the INTJ is in it for the long haul and not one to get cold feet or change their mind on a whim. THAT's coming through for real!

oh to be with a boring, emotionally detached but PREDICTABLE and steady gal that knows my hug means "i love you so much no words could ever do it justice"... hey, you mind giving me her number? LOL

i've been celibate over a decade because of the crap clingy emotionals pull like fatal attractions. a gal that just says "yeah, whatever" would be a breath of fresh air for me. i dream on INTJeanie

you really shouldn't be in a relationship with her at all. you need to go back to all those other gals that were "better than her"
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[Velocitii]

Originally Posted by MisterDonut To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

We have so much connection, that i don't want to tell her what to do all the time. All the small things that i need. I felt that that she would really take care of all my small needs, simply because every other girl that i have dated took care of it. It wasn't until much later on that i realize she wasn't coming through for me. I mean for me personally i hate telling people what to do because i hate it when my exs require me to do certain things for them. Because maybe i was about to do those certain acts of kindness for them without them having to say a word, but once they said something, it no longer became what i wanted to do for them on my own, but instead fulfilling their request of what i should do for them. in the end I wanted her to be open and listen to me.. PG you are right on many levels, but just like her, instead of listening to what i'm saying, you want to make your own point. I really appreciate your insight, in fact i keep checking back to see what you and others have written. And the thing is, i refuse to feel like i did something wrong. Its a relationship for crying out loud, you give and you take. you and my exs response share something in common, It wasn't to address my needs, but instead to explain your own needs with your own agenda. When i ask for a hug, i don't need you to give me a reason why hugs are detrimental to my health. after a while it just gets tiring. meanwhile, i always acknowledge that i might not be right in what i do, and that i can always improve, but when you INTJ's refuse to even waver in your actions or thoughts. then the best thing is to break and maybe somehow let you guys gain a little insight, so that you can do better in ur next relationship. If something was learned in a relationship, all was not in vein.

The mindset that you're absolutely right and she's absolutely wrong doesn't really help.
She didn't meet your needs, so did you meet hers?
It just doesn't sound compatible from what I've read. Sounds like you need an extrovert thats lovey dovey all the time.

[Cat1021]

I can sympathize to a degree. I am an INFJ and my boyfriend is an INTJ. This is a very symbiotic relationship, except for that "F" in my personality and that "T" in his personality. We used to go round and round as well. I don't know if the situation is similar or different in the sense that we were friends for years before we got together, but he had the walls up, and I had the fear of the unknown with him. I still get that way sometimes. And sometimes I ask the wrong questions and end up offending him or making him doubt himself completely.

Maybe it's in our favor that we're both emotionally immature right now, but we are learning the differences in one another and learning how to accept the things we can't change and compromise the things we can. And we have learned SO much patience for each other while we adjust to these traits, because it'll tear you down and cause you to have to build yourself back up.

So I take it back, my relationship is completely different because we had known each other for so long. We have so much to lose, because we were best friends before we got together, so it is imperative for us to grow together and do everything we can to make the other happy. When both people want to make the other happy, then both people are compromising, changing, and accepting, rather than it being one sided. If my boyfriend and I didn't know each other that long, we probably would think the other is crazy or an asshole and be done with it and walk away.

As much of an "F" as I am, after 3 or 4 months with someone, that would drive me absolutely bonkers. In fact, the honeymoon period didn't even wear off on my boyfriend and I until like 10 months later, and mostly because of the distance that was between us and personal stresses. In 3 or 4 months, he was still my knight in shining armor and I was still his sexy goddess. It sounds like you just latched on too soon and failed to see all the ways she WAS trying. INTJ's have walls, because they're methodical. They don't generally rush the things that matter to them. It's like a previous poster said, most of us are thinking within that minute, but INTJ's are thinking so much further ahead.

[MisterDonut]

	Originally Posted by zeroemission To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	you know, it sounds to me like you actually blame her for being what she is, just like irrationals, as i prefer to call them are ALWAYS doing calling us robots or even sociopaths because we don't meet your expectations of following social conventions that to us are stupid and pointless. instead of celebrating what makes her different from anyone else you've known, you resent it.

I like her for who she is, but not being able to bend a little is heart breaking. Life will always have ups and downs and for someone that is so unwilling on the small things i can't imagine her willing to change anything for us in the long run.
with that said one thing that really bother me was that she never really tried to make my parents like her or even my cousins.
family is big for me, and i know maybe her background is not very family friendly, but i really tried hard to include her into my family, but she just seems distance herself. which really hurts me as well.

Originally Posted by zeroemission To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

your definition of "coming through" for someone and an INTJs are very different. someone who has the social skills to appease you in the short term is also the same irrational and impulsive person that will drop your butt in a heartbeat the second someone who "comes through for them" (read pushes their buttons) better than you where the INTJ is in it for the long haul and not one to get cold feet or change their mind on a whim. THAT's coming through for real!

I really know what your saying.. I dated a ISFJ girl before and she came through for me and exceeded all expectations, but at the end of the day i didn't trust her... Thats why when i found this INTJ I was excited beyond words.

With that said. Instead of always making excuses for yourselves. You could simply use some words to calm my nerves. Yes maybe its my fault, but the point for a relationship is to pick someone up when they are down or when they feel uneasy.
Yes maybe in the end they will be there, but when i live my life thinking that she won't be there, it actually doesn't matter if she will be there or not in the end. Because I'm already diversifying my stocks in this case love, because it is my belief that she wont' be there. perception is reality, and for someone who's primary function is intuition, that is what i rely on. I want to give the benefit of the doubt. but its just not possible

INTJ is by far my favorite personaility, but what saddens me is that you guys have so much potential to be great; spectacular. but a lot of it is wasted away explaining to everyone why you do this and that. Why dont' you guys just live up to your hype and potential to be the best there is. I know it will never happen, and we will just have to accept your flaws just like every other type . honestly you guys were destined to be great, you guys just don't realize it yourselves

	Originally Posted by zeroemission To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	oh to be with a boring, emotionally detached but PREDICTABLE and steady gal that knows my hug means "i love you so much no words could ever do it justice"...

i can't get to where you are. I don't expect you to come to where i am. but when you refuse to meet me somewhere in the middle. then we have a problem.

Even in your comment, there is underlying tones of unwillingness and for us to accept you guys for who you are... Guess what i want to be accepted for who i am, but i'm willing to see the bigger picture that both needs to bend and mold together to be a complimenting partner. INTJ however does not feel that way.

[vaeran]

Don't date an INTJ. It sounds as though you would prefer it if she could mold herself to fit to your needs. Maybe she's not meeting you in the middle. Or maybe she is, but that's not enough for you because you fail to see how difficult it is for her to change to a visible degree until she meets your minimum threshold. Have you ever tried changing your habits? And did she ever tell you she wanted you to be a certain way that you were not?

Not accusing you of being the unreasonable party here at all. But perhaps she (or perhaps even INTJs?) was just not your type.

[scorpiomover]

	Originally Posted by MisterDonut To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I been meeting a string of INTJ but somehow their lack of warmth scares me.

I know what you mean. Experienced it myself. Still, my ENFJ friend says that compared to me, he practically "wears his heart on his sleeve".

I think you have to bear in mind, that with an INTJ, paticularly an INTJ female, they just have a habit of forgetting to let you know it, and frequently revert back to a mode of expression which seems like they don't care about you at all. However, as long as her general behaviour, indicates that she cares, even if her mode of expression does not, then she cares. I think it would be better to make the effort to remember that she cares, even though she doesn't always show it, than to end up screwing over something good in your life, because of a misunderstanding in communication.

	Originally Posted by Badger To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I would actually have to put in my day planner: Tell your WIFE you love her. It is that unnatural to me.

Not a bad idea, actually. I find that such an approach has worked wonders for many aspects of my life.

[MisterDonut]

	Originally Posted by vaeran To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But perhaps she (or perhaps even INTJs?) was just not your type.

What is and INTJ with feelings? INFJ? or does the dominate functions change so much its not really the same

[Velocitii]

Why INTJ? Please dont say because you read/heard enfp/intj goes great together. Take the person youre dating for who they are, not what a persoanlity test tells you who they are. Throw all your assumptions out the window.

[teraczy]

Funny, cause my ENTP roommate and I were just talking and we swear the human mantra is, "I love you, now change."

	Originally Posted by MisterDonut To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I like her for who she is, but not being able to bend a little is heart breaking. With that said. Instead of always making excuses for yourselves. You could simply use some words to calm my nerves.

Wow do I ever tire of people telling me I need to use words to calm their nerves. Heck, I need it sometimes, but why do SO many people rely on people and their words. "You don't do enough for me," "You don't love me enough." (Yes this just happened to me this morning)

I've gotten used to looking straight into someone's eyes and saying, "I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say/do, can you tell me" (with a deep inner sigh)

If someone doesn't show me through action that they love me, then I will ask them to tell me how they value me, but only then. Also, three or four months in and you're introducing her to family. Jesus that is frightening. One reason is I had an ENFP like me once and introduce me to his family and shortly thereafter he found some other enigma to chase after. Anyone that moves too fast is a poor sign.

Always making excuses for ourselves, such as, "We are ourselves." Cool story bro.

	Originally Posted by MisterDonut To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What is and INTJ with feelings? INFJ? or does the dominate functions change so much its not really the same

Dude, everyone has feelings. Maybe some people like NTs don't throw their love around like it's nothing, and guard it to protect ourselves from people that don't respect it? Okay, here we go: the two bolded lines in the text I've quoted from you completely contradict, so maybe you need to disregard your Fi need for your own personal gratification and use your Ti a little bit to think about what you're saying.

Now with that said, everything's gonna move on whether you're with this girl or not. You didn't like the relationship so move on.
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[MisterDonut]

The whole reason i even post is that i am rather sadden by this whole ordeal. I wish it could work.. honestly.. i really do, thats why i bother reading and understanding more about whats going on? Is it really me? or is it you guys? or is it just an isolated situation?

i really need to comprehend why it didn't work, especially when we were both thought we might be soulmates.. She even hinted at it in the beginning of our relationship.. Yet that was the closest we got. eversince she utter those words, without me coxing it out of her, she has then slowly wiggled out of being close to me..

It really hurts to hear someone say you really might be there soulmate, and feeling it myself. Meanwhile watching her slowly detach herself from me. And there was nothing i could do. Its almost like i rather she just break up with me right away, or just remain friends. I have no idea why she had to drag me through the mud?? why?? what is the purpose in all this?

[PurpleGiraffe]

	Originally Posted by MisterDonut To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	We have so much connection, that i don't want to tell her what to do all the time. All the small things that i need. I felt that that she would really take care of all my small needs, simply because every other girl that i have dated took care of it. It wasn't until much later on that i realize she wasn't coming through for me.

If they were coming through for you then why aren't you still dating them?

She isn't them, and they aren't her. It's kind of insulting to compare them.

	in the end I wanted her to be open and listen to me..

Open and listen or tell you what you wanted to hear?

	PG you are right on many levels, but just like her, instead of listening to what i'm saying, you want to make your own point. I really appreciate your insight, in fact i keep checking back to see what you and others have written.

I couldn't care less about my point. My point doesn't matter. What matters is you ultimately realize that she is different from you. She will never be you. Judging her by how you would act is ultimately unfair because she doesn't work like you. In the same way she shouldn't judge you from how she would act because that would be unfair to you.

	And the thing is, i refuse to feel like i did something wrong. Its a relationship for crying out loud, you give and you take. you and my exs response share something in common, It wasn't to address my needs, but instead to explain your own needs with your own agenda.

You did do something wrong. Just like she did something wrong. Miscommunication is only a problem when both people are experiencing a breakdown in it otherwise there wouldn't be a problem. If [I] stopped [saying] every [other] word, [it] would [only] be [a] problem [if] you [didn't] know [what] I [was] doing. If... caught... that...joking..then... wouldn't... problem...
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	When i ask for a hug, i don't need you to give me a reason why hugs are detrimental to my health. after a while it just gets tiring.

Agreed. I can see how that would be tiring.

	meanwhile, i always acknowledge that i might not be right in what i do, and that i can always improve, but when you INTJ's refuse to even waver in your actions or thoughts. then the best thing is to break and maybe somehow let you guys gain a little insight, so that you can do better in ur next relationship. If something was learned in a relationship, all was not in vein.

Surely, she isn't the only one that can learn a few things, right?

Originally Posted by MisterDonut To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I like her for who she is, but not being able to bend a little is heart breaking. Life will always have ups and downs and for someone that is so unwilling on the small things i can't imagine her willing to change anything for us in the long run. with that said one thing that really bother me was that she never really tried to make my parents like her or even my cousins. family is big for me, and i know maybe her background is not very family friendly, but i really tried hard to include her into my family, but she just seems distance herself. which really hurts me as well.

Again, judging her by your standards. Plus, shouldn't it only matter what you think of her, ultimately? I mean, they weren't dating her. You were.

	I really know what your saying.. I dated a ISFJ girl before and she came through for me and exceeded all expectations, but at the end of the day i didn't trust her... Thats why when i found this INTJ I was excited beyond words.

An INTJ isn't an ISFJ. So stop trying to make her into one.

With that said. Instead of always making excuses for yourselves. You could simply use some words to calm my nerves. Yes maybe its my fault, but the point for a relationship is to pick someone up when they are down or when they feel uneasy. Yes maybe in the end they will be there, but when i live my life thinking that she won't be there, it actually doesn't matter if she will be there or not in the end. Because I'm already diversifying my stocks in this case love, because it is my belief that she wont' be there. perception is reality, and for someone who's primary function is intuition, that is what i rely on. I want to give the benefit of the doubt. but its just not possible

Is that the point? That's what you see as the point. I think of the point of having a partnership is to have someone to come home to whose opinion I trust and who makes me happier and better able to see the world in a new way. We are all different and all want/need different things. If she sees a different point then maybe you really shouldn't be with her (or maybe another INTJ either.)

INTJ is by far my favorite personaility, but what saddens me is that you guys have so much potential to be great; spectacular. but a lot of it is wasted away explaining to everyone why you do this and that. Why dont' you guys just live up to your hype and potential to be the best there is. I know it will never happen, and we will just have to accept your flaws just like every other type . honestly you guys were destined to be great, you guys just don't realize it yourselves

Why don't you stop judging us? There is nothing wrong with who we are. Sure, we can always be better, but it doesn't mean we are flawed because we AREN'T INFJs or ISFJs or whatever. If you want an INFJ, then go find one, but stop acting like we're flawed because we aren't. Most of us have heard a few too many times that we should be something different (more accommodating, less of a bitch, less cold etc.) and it's stuff like that that only makes us less likely to show ourselves, because why show your soft gooey warm center to someone who still isn't going to think it's good enough because it's not someone's else's version?

	Originally Posted by MisterDonut To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What is and INTJ with feelings?

What's an ENFP with the ability to think? See what I did there?
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Could you provide an example of how she seemed to start pulling away?

[teraczy]

there is an entire thread page full of posts detailing to you why it didn't work and you call them 'excuses' that you don't want to hear.

Originally Posted by PurpleGiraffe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

If you want an INFJ, then go find one, but stop acting like we're flawed because we aren't. Most of us have heard a few too many times that we should be something different (more accommodating, less of a bitch, less cold etc.) and it's stuff like that that only makes us less likely to show ourselves, because why show your soft gooey warm center to someone who still isn't going to think it's good enough because it's not someone's else's version? What's an ENFP with the ability to think? See what I did there? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Exactly.

[Coffeebean]

I can read emotions in most INTJs just fine because I'm the kind of hawk-eyed lunatic who quietly takes everything in from the sidelines. I've had to wait several months for some of these friends to become comfortable opening up to me to the point where we could have frank emotional discussions. If I coax, it has to be selective coaxing.

I'm only close to two, but I have noticed that both of them are not inclined to be emotionally expressive on a regular basis and may struggle when they are, and they do occasionally wall themselves off or drift. There'll be subtle shifts in behavior and speech that they think I don't notice, and I've simply had to trust in them that it's their personal struggle and to come to me or be available to talk about it in their own time. Kind of like when the cat wanders off but always comes back home, assuming she doesn't get hit by a car.

They always do, and sometimes they surprise me. However, I have to make do when they wander off to chase field mice, plot to take over societies, drown themselves in gin, or whatever it is INTJs do during that time.

You're right that they do need to meet you halfway, but I'm also not sure if you understand them very well. She may have been confused about her own feelings or simply feeling comfortable enough to get distracted, and that may have been why she backed off. I haven't read anything that was actually said between you two, so it's just my two cents.

Instead of picking them out, why not cast your net a little wider and try for someone who seems naturally inclined towards the kind of emotional expression and heartfelt discussions you need? Maybe that person will be an INTJ and maybe they won't, but going for the MBTI doesn't seem to be working.

[Vaiz]

I think it'll help coming from one ENFP to another.

When someone says to me "we both felt like we were soulmates" and finishes it with "well she didn't directly say it." I generally believe that the person is reading too deeply into what the other individual said.

I could sit here and discuss what you brought up and what went wrong, but instead I would rather help you to understand what happened.

You wanted something from her that could have never happened. She was incapable of giving you the expressions and emotions you need in order to be happy, so the only thing you can do is leave. Alternatively, you can learn what her signals for love are.

The latter method is generally what the mature crowd does, and that wasn't a backhanded stab at you being immature. If you truly love someone, you will need to learn how to handle them and you will deal with their issues no matter what. The truth is though, those warm fuzzies you feel will inevitably fade away as your body no longer releases high concentrations of the love chemicals. That is why rule #1 of dating is to love both their personality and their body. It sounds like you two would have made a better friendship than a romantic coupling, especially from your side of the story.

The storytale love is nothing more than chemical responses, and at the end of the day once that is no longer present it becomes difficult for an individual to continue doing things that they do not like. Ask my girlfriend how many times I used to clean the apartment a week vs. how much I do it now
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I used to clean for her every freaking day! Go figure! An ENFP doing something like that. Now I do it every week and its been 1 year and about 6 months now.

The difficult part you are getting hung up in currently is that SHE did not bend for YOU, you are missing why she didn't though. She is not capable of bending that way for you.

What if she asked you to stop procrastinating or to stop jumping mentally from one project to another? I know as an ENFP that just isn't physically sustainable or healthy for me for any amount of time (ok I can probably do it for a day).

I understand why you are missing the points everyone is trying to bring up though, trust me, it is hard to get past why if someone loves you they aren't expressing it at all. This is part of growing up and learning to trust people, it isn't easy. You won't always feel good, but if you truly love someone you stick through it no matter what. Real love extends beyond that warm fuzzy feeling and means that you talk with your partner on a level playing field and you don't back them into a corner (especially introverts!). You learn that love means trust, and trusting someone is the scariest thing you can possibly do.

I think that is the best I can do at the moment and I truly hope that this has helped you out in some way. If there is anything you need further explanation on feel free to ask and I'll respond with more ^.- I always have more to say lol.

[Cat1021]

My boyfriend is STILL opening up about new things he was scared to share before. We've been friends since 2007, and we just celebrated our one year anniversary last month. It sounds like you are reading into all the things that are being implied and not seeing the things that were right in front of your face.

If she implied ya'll might be soul mates but after 3 or 4 months, you feel she wouldn't give you the things you felt you needed from her, maybe your intensity scared her. People want to feel like you want to know them, to be with them, to share with them. They don't want to be made to feel like they're a rush order bride, and to be honest, most of the INTJ's I know don't even believe in soul mates. My boyfriend constantly corrects me to say "peas in a pod" instead. Lol.

No one's particularly trying to tell you she was right and you were wrong, but merely that it sounds like you were holding on VERY tightly to something that was purely idealistic but not actually there. And it sounds like you were dating a couple girls at the same time for a little while. An INTJ is usually picky about who they want to date. Perhaps she knew she wasn't the only one which put her walls up even further. In what ways were you bending for her?

[MisterDonut]

Originally Posted by PurpleGiraffe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You did do something wrong. Just like she did something wrong. Miscommunication is only a problem when both people are experiencing a breakdown in it otherwise there wouldn't be a problem. If [I] stopped [saying] every [other] word, [it] would [only] be [a] problem [if] you [didn't] know [what] I [was] doing. If... caught... that...joking..then... wouldn't... problem... To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I LOVE this example.

	Originally Posted by PurpleGiraffe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Could you provide an example of how she seemed to start pulling away?

nothing was really the same, she stopped msging me as much, when i'm next to her now. she wasn't as engaging like she use to be. She became less touchy. All signs of things i feel like when a relationship is ending. Because when i text less, when i don't engage or become less physical, those are all signs for me that i'm not really into it anymore.. I mean there are so many other little things that i can't remember, but the general feeling was she wasn't engaging.

Originally Posted by Vaiz To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think it'll help coming from one ENFP to another. When someone says to me "we both felt like we were soulmates" and finishes it with "well she didn't directly say it." I generally believe that the person is reading too deeply into what the other individual said. I could sit here and discuss what you brought up and what went wrong, but instead I would rather help you to understand what happened. You wanted something from her that could have never happened. She was incapable of giving you the expressions and emotions you need in order to be happy, so the only thing you can do is leave. Alternatively, you can learn what her signals for love are. The latter method is generally what the mature crowd does, and that wasn't a backhanded stab at you being immature. If you truly love someone, you will need to learn how to handle them and you will deal with their issues no matter what. The truth is though, those warm fuzzies you feel will inevitably fade away as your body no longer releases high concentrations of the love chemicals. That is why rule #1 of dating is to love both their personality and their body. It sounds like you two would have made a better friendship than a romantic coupling, especially from your side of the story. The storytale love is nothing more than chemical responses, and at the end of the day once that is no longer present it becomes difficult for an individual to continue doing things that they do not like. Ask my girlfriend how many times I used to clean the apartment a week vs. how much I do it now To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I used to clean for her every freaking day! Go figure! An ENFP doing something like that. Now I do it every week and its been 1 year and about 6 months now. The difficult part you are getting hung up in currently is that SHE did not bend for YOU, you are missing why she didn't though. She is not capable of bending that way for you. What if she asked you to stop procrastinating or to stop jumping mentally from one project to another? I know as an ENFP that just isn't physically sustainable or healthy for me for any amount of time (ok I can probably do it for a day). I understand why you are missing the points everyone is trying to bring up though, trust me, it is hard to get past why if someone loves you they aren't expressing it at all. This is part of growing up and learning to trust people, it isn't easy. You won't always feel good, but if you truly love someone you stick through it no matter what. Real love extends beyond that warm fuzzy feeling and means that you talk with your partner on a level playing field and you don't back them into a corner (especially introverts!). You learn that love means trust, and trusting someone is the scariest thing you can possibly do. I think that is the best I can do at the moment and I truly hope that this has helped you out in some way. If there is anything you need further explanation on feel free to ask and I'll respond with more ^.- I always have more to say lol.

My God. Your like the only one that understands me..

And here is the Thing, all the advice I got from all the INTJs here have been very insightful.. But instead of trying to share with me what you think about this matter, when i'm sharing with you my feelings, simply just listen and understand it. All you have to do is comprehend where i am coming from. After this step we than can have your discussion of Why you are cold, and why you don't like to share. And i would be more then happy to go down that route with you. But once i sense your unwillingness to understand what i'm saying, i too become unwilling. I wish i could be above it, but unfortunately I am not.

[low battery]

Being an INTJ , In the early parts of a relationship, I enjoy seeing you around me a lot. But in the latter part, it is the opposite. I cherish you the more you gimme some space. Then, when I am in the thinking phase I begin to value you the more and also get to understand how happy you make me when you are around me. That doesn't mean you should be around me all the time! I believe you were really clingy.