[Vermillion]

For one who truly hates cruelty and suffering the true enemy is obvious. It isn't terrorists, conservatives, liberals, theists, or government. It isn't religion, war, greed, or sociopathy.

The true answer is life itself.

Life is cannibalistic and self-destructive, feeding off of and exploiting itself. To live is to suffer. Cruelty is a part of survival. Lower animals tear one another apart for food, parasites infest organisms to leech off of them, humans intentionally inflict suffering on a planetary scale for various reasons. Sickness, disease, hunting, mutilation, ripping flesh, crushing bone, the screams of the dying, and of those who cry out for death such is their agony.

This is reality. For every fuzzy bunny and rainbow, for every feeling of love and comfort, for every moment of happiness and joy, there is untold suffering and cruelty. The entire world is an orgy of psychotic torturous madness as life tears itself apart to survive. Humans delude themselves and think of life as a beautiful, wondrous thing when in reality it is a monstrous system of violence and suffering.

Anyone who truly despises cruelty and suffering can not see life as anything but an abomination if they are honest. People shelter their minds. They go to work, play with their kids, fuck their spouses, and watch TV, thinking that life isn't so bad. They cut themselves off from the massive suffering not only of their fellow humans but of all life itself. It's like being in the eye of a hurricane of unimaginable violence and pain.

Perhaps only those who have seen and participated in so called atrocities can truly understand the reality of life. Those who have witnessed and perpetuated events like the Holocaust and the My Lai massacre. This is the reality we live in and turn a blind eye to.

Even misanthropes are deluded. They think the world would be "better" without humans. The nature of life wouldn't change one bit. The inquisitor that strips the flesh from the heretic and the lion that mutilates the gazelle, it's ultimately more of the same. All life is the architect of cruelty. All life is the instigator of suffering. Humans are nothing special.

Why would a neutral and uncaring universe produce such a monstrous creation as organic life? It's like the design of some mad god who delights in chaos and feeds off of agony. Only something incredibly sick and twisted could create something such as the organic life found on this planet.

Those of you who value benevolence and despise cruelty, life itself is your greatest enemy.

[Jade333]

This seems to be the natural order having all of these descriptions, including those of us who hate suffering and cruelty.

[QuantumEnigma]

That may be, but it still beats the alternative.

[Bevan]

	Originally Posted by Vermillion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Those of you who value benevolence and despise cruelty, life itself is your greatest enemy.

Cruelty and suffering are two different situations. Cruelty, a human behaviour, is incomprehensible compared to simple suffering. My friend, you are getting perilously close to philosophical/psychological/metaphysical issues. :P

There is something you yourself can do about the harsh conditions of earthly life. One act of kindness, one act of generosity changes the world a little. Do your best to make life better for those around you. You can't carry the world on your shoulders. Just do what you can with your own hands and that's enough.

Many of us, myself included, grapple with demons. I am haunted by shadows of my childhood. There is permanent damage, but I manage to make a reasonably contented life for myself.

[Seablue]

There is no cruelty when there is no conscience of that cruelty. So in that regard I do think that humans are special and that there wouldn't be any cruelty without them, except maybe among the most intelligent animal species, who knows.

My version of your OP is "life is pain". Then you can include lions and volcanoes in the list of things that make life a living hell.

[Tactical Panda]

I read the first two paragraphs by hovering the cursor over the forum thread titles.

And laughed as I read it.

Yes, life has its "downs". If the downs are all that counts, I'd pose a counter-philosophy based on a combination of investigation, courage, meaning and fighting the (technically) irrationality of despair.

[TheWanderer]

Cruelty in nature is no excuse to be cruel to humans, or defend such behaviour

[Jade333]

	Originally Posted by Bevan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There is something you yourself can do about the harsh conditions of earthly life. One act of kindness, one act of generosity changes the world a little. Do your best to make life better for those around you. You can't carry the world on your shoulders. Just do what you can with your own hands and that's enough.

Nicely stated.
Balance is necessary in the world. Humanity is such a small portion of the world. We could consider ourselves cells of the earth. Some are white cells and some are cancerous.

[ppu6502]

It's possible to feel life was well worth living, even having experienced much pain and cruelty. So, it's not enough to say life loses its value by the existence of those things.

[Oros Ull]

I whole heartedly agree 1st world Humans have deluded themselves with some unfounded sense of entitlement to pleasure. And they feel wronged when they are made to suffer as if it weren’t entirely necessary and natural. I always found that rather childish and naive.

Although life isn’t all suffering there is just as much pleasure as there is pain for both man and the rest of the natural world. It requires balance to see past it all and grow though. One can’t be successful in this world relying only on pain or pleasure there is always a counter whether it’s immediately perceivable or not.

I think that’s why being evil always seems to pay off and why good people tend to suffer the most. It’s because truly good people recognize that to bring pleasure into the world they have to sacrifice for it themselves. That’s what altruism really is. Simply protesting the evils in the world while making no real sacrifice of your own is petty and pointless, all you are serving to do is impede the process that allows what good there is to exist.

[sunitaishot]

Why then is cruelty better than suffering?

Just because suffering is natural, it doesn't mean it should be minimised.

	I whole heartedly agree 1st world Humans have deluded themselves with some unfounded sense of entitlement to pleasure. And they feel wronged when they are made to suffer as if it weren’t entirely necessary and natural. I always found that rather childish and naive.

Humans by nature seek pleasure over pain. To be a healthy person is as such. If you are ill, do you not seek cure or management of the condition?

[Bevan]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why then is cruelty better than suffering? Just because suffering is natural, it doesn't mean it should be minimised. Humans by nature seek pleasure over pain. To be a healthy person is as such. If you are ill, do you not seek cure or management of the condition?

About this piece of writing, is English a second language or have you developed a dadaistic way of communicating?

[The Dan Keizer]

Charlie Sheen, you need to stop being so negative brother. I don't know how a rainbow could create any suffering. That's crazy.

And your definition of cruelty is so broad that of course everything under the sun is going to appear cruel to you.

[sunitaishot]

	Originally Posted by Bevan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	About this piece of writing, is English a second language or have you developed a dadaistic way of communicating?

Is what I wrote not standard English?

[Autumnleaf]

Maybe its up to us whether there is cruelty or not. What we do matters.

[Bevan]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is what I wrote not standard English?

Pardon me. I failed to recognise your light and comical style.

[MrSoloDolo]

I think it's easy to see the negative side of things, there is so much of it that you can find it anywhere if that is what you are trying to find. I think i takes a noble soul to search for the good in something or someone, no matter how miniscule that might be. Yes life can be depressing, but there is nothing more powerful than the feeling of overcoming your fears.

[Oros Ull]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why then is cruelty better than suffering? Just because suffering is natural, it doesn't mean it should be minimised. Humans by nature seek pleasure over pain. To be a healthy person is as such. If you are ill, do you not seek cure or management of the condition?

I never said we should seek out pain, there is no need plenty will come to you all on its own. But thinking that you are so special that you are exempt from the simple fact of nature that pain is an essential part of life is just naive. People need to suffer to learn and grow. It’s just how it works, without it we wouldn’t be where we are now as a species. Only in overcoming pain do we progress. Avoiding it rather than facing and overcoming it only serve to stagnate us.

[TheWanderer]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is what I wrote not standard English?

Your posts seem to boil down to "I say its subjective. You know I am right because its subjective. The subjectiveness proves its subjective, therefore I am right."

Or you say an improbable statement with no evidence to back it, then use the above to brush it aside, then you repeat yourself bumping the thread, until you get another post longer and more though out than most of yours where you do the same thing again.

And you do this as an allegd 34 year old man who makes sure that one way or another anyone questions your age or mental capabilities are punished, and you do this on a intelcitual forum. Yet you act like what you say is extremly persuive and intrsincly rigtht.

It does make debate pretty tricky, and people might assume their is some kind of barrier that makes communication tricky.

But if you have any solid, non circular arguments for why cruelty is ok, the kind you'd actually expect to persuade people in real life with, we'd love to hear them, otherwise your argument style is rather disruptive to any possible debate

[Sk8ordude]

I agree that if one is stuck in ideals of what should be that life is quite the abomination,but if one is free from the supposed one can then see the beauty in the adversity of all of it. A story without an adversary is boring, and a life without adversity is something truly abominable.

[Bevan]

	Originally Posted by Sk8ordude To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I agree that if one is stuck in ideals of what should be that life is quite the abomination,but if one is free from the supposed one can then see the beauty in the adversity of all of it. A story without an adversary is boring, and a life without adversity is something truly abominable.

A life without adversity...what a hollow and meaningless existence that would be. I'm guessing I would be overcome with anxiety or something worse: complacency. Thinking about my own struggles in this light, I'm grateful.

Among people who were born in privilege or achieved a high station I've noticed some who lack empathy, lack gratitude, and show indifference or outright contempt for those who still struggle. The belief that success is a reason to congratulate and admire yourself leads to a blind alley, I think.

[Apophenia]

OP, the fact that humans have to swim in a conceptualization of the past and the future...yes that makes humans judgmental. But judgements are personal, cultural. We exist and then go away like any plant, volcano or petri dish contents regardless how much or how little we suffer or judge all activity on earth.

Suffering is not life. Suffering is the ability to conceptualize the past and future. Suffering is the ability to feel pain after it's gone, and before it comes. Suffering is the ability to conceptualize other people's pain as if it's our own (..empathy). From my understanding, the majority of nonhuman life feels pain, but does not suffer as much (if at all) after the pain stops.

So yes, the value judgement you're demonstrating in your OP is a result of what makes us so human - namely your conception of your past and your future, and your conception of the suffering of others.

[stasis]

	Originally Posted by Vermillion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Life is cannibalistic and self-destructive, feeding off of and exploiting itself.

Life is pretty much the polar opposite of self-destructive in any essential sense. On the contrary, we might actually observe that one of the most basic, if not the simplest distinction between living and non-living physical systems is that living systems tend to react to disintegrating force by redirecting, retasking, or counteracting, whereas non-living systems tend to react to disintegrating force in kind with the force. In other words, living systems tend to perpetuate themselves.

[sunitaishot]

Call this simplistic thinking, but if suffering is good, why then curb it? why not let people get sick, or people get assaulted, raped, murdered, etc?

The nature of man, and by extension all sentient life, is to seek contentment over suffering. I think personally, the idea that suffering is virtuous was said long ago to justify the moral/political status quo of those eras.

[Reginald X]

We say that the purpose of life is to overcome suffering. Is that the same as preventing suffering? If adversity is inevitable in life, is the best solution to prevent life?