[linstiks]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why does every average or below average man think he's entitled to an above average woman? Honestly - water finds its own level.

This always bothered me. It's one thing if he's decent (opposed to gorgeous or awful) and makes up in some other way-smart, funny, etc...

[Shadeylark]

every average and below man feels he is entitled to an above average physically woman for the same reason every average and below woman feels that she is entitled to an above average emotionally man.

everybody feels that they deserve the best; the determination of what qualifies as the best varies, but that is irrelevant... nobody, man or woman, thinks they deserve second best.

[Haumea]

Of course the whole thing is stupid, but we live in the age of entitlement because we live in the age of lies.

An honest society wouldn't mince any words - you're entitled to what you can get, and if you can't get it naturally or by improving yourself then tough titty.

But there's no money or power in that, so everyone's a victim or something is wrong with society itself.

[IotaNull]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why does every average or below average man think he's entitled to an above average woman?

Where? I don't think anyone in this thread has framed their own points from the perspective of entitlement, so i'm not sure where the "get over it" crowd is getting all this from.

Women do much the same thing, by the way -- and on a far greater scale, which is why all but the very top tier men are chronically dateless.

	Honestly - water finds its own level.

( Show Spoiler )

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[FarmlandTension]

	Originally Posted by Iota Null To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Where? I don't think anyone in this thread has framed their own points from the perspective of entitlement, so i'm not sure where the "get over it" crowd is getting all this from. Women do much the same thing, by the way -- and on a far greater scale, which is why all but the very top tier men are chronically dateless.

I read this and my brain just screamed "Hypocrite!"

It's arguable that since "most" women apparently care more about a potential partner's personality than "most" men supposedly do, that this is more of a male trait than a female one. But to be perfectly honest, I would reckon about 85% of people do this, because let's face it - Who wants to go out with someone that doesn't fit into the standards of what they want in a partner? Unless they have pretty bad self-esteem issues. I don't think it boils down to just physical appearance though, and the people who fit into the "top tier" vary massively depending on whose perspective it's from, so a lot more people fit into that level than you might assume.

Though because of that very fact, I would say the initial topic of conversation here is incorrect, since a lot of guys who the aforementioned cute girls would consider top tier would probably not realise they fit into that category, and so would never approach them. And in those cases, if the girl's not going to approach the guys either, it's likely she'll remain single despite being "cute".


Also, thusfar I have only read a few pages of this thread, so I apologise if this was already covered.

[IotaNull]

	Originally Posted by FarmlandTension To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	a lot of guys who the aforementioned cute girls would consider top tier would probably not realise they fit into that category, and so would never approach them.

Self-evidently false. People who are top tier get constant positive reinforcement on that, so you can't really be mistaken about which tier you're in.

[FarmlandTension]

	Originally Posted by Iota Null To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Self-evidently false. People who are top tier get constant positive reinforcement on that, so you can't really be mistaken about which tier you're in.

Incorrect. As I already said, what qualifies as "top tier" changes a lot from person to person since everyone has individual elements they look for in a person, or that heighten attraction for them if noted.

But even aside from that, there are certainly a number of people who are seen as generally attractive to a large amount of people, and because of that a lot of people will see them as "out of their league" or assume they must be taken already, and so do not bother to approach them as they've already assumed they will face rejection. If a majority of people react this way, it's quite plausible that the person in question gets little to no positive reinforcement with regards to their appearance, and if they're that universally recognised as good-looking, it's likely that people of their own gender might be jealous of them and actually put them down about it, so it's possible they get more negative reinforcement than positive.

And, of course, not everyone's self-esteem is heavily influenced by external factors, and a lot of people will continue to believe they are only as good as they see themselves, regardless of what other people say, and will often attempt to rationalise compliments as people trying to be nice, or assume anyone hitting on them must be desperate to go near them.

Unless you have been monitoring every above-average person of every gender for years and making graphs of how often they're complimented and what level their self esteem is at, I really don't think claiming things like "People who are top tier get constant positive reinforcement on that" is really a particularly rational or intelligent thing to do.

[Cat1021]

I tend to believe that like attracts like. I also don't tend to believe in victims or life happening to you. Call my overly optimistic, but I really do believe people have more power than they think they do, and I think if someone has a perpetual problem in dating, it's not that they're dating the same type over and over so much as something within their own personality they need to come to terms with and move on from. You don't get anywhere when you're in denial about yourself. Falling, fighting, being wrong--these are tools that help people grow and better themselves. It's all about observing it, accepting it, deciding if you want to change it, accepting the consequences, and moving forward.

Yes, it really IS that simple.

[IotaNull]

Originally Posted by FarmlandTension To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

But even aside from that, there are certainly a number of people who are seen as generally attractive to a large amount of people, and because of that a lot of people will see them as "out of their league" or assume they must be taken already, and so do not bother to approach them as they've already assumed they will face rejection. If a majority of people react this way, it's quite plausible that the person in question gets little to no positive reinforcement with regards to their appearance, and if they're that universally recognised as good-looking, it's likely that people of their own gender might be jealous of them and actually put them down about it, so it's possible they get more negative reinforcement than positive.

Getting positive reinforcement about your appearance isn't just or even primarily being approached. It's the compliments such people are always showered with and the "everyone wants him/her" comments that non-single members of the opposite sex often offer. In the case of whether or not you're top tier as a man, you can infer it from whether or not you get approached by modelling agencies. (All the males I know of who were successful with women in college, without exception, are now either models or have declined offers for the job.)

Actual experience has given me absolutely no exceptions to the idea that people who are good looking, regardless of whether they actually end up dating, are invariably made aware of that fact ad nauseam.

[FarmlandTension]

Originally Posted by Iota Null To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Getting positive reinforcement about your appearance isn't just or even primarily being approached. It's the compliments such people are always showered with and the "everyone wants him/her" comments that non-single members of the opposite sex often offer. In the case of whether or not you're top tier as a man, you can infer it from whether or not you get approached by modelling agencies. (All the males I know of who were successful with women in college, without exception, are now either models or have declined offers for the job.) Actual experience has given me absolutely no exceptions to the idea that people who are good looking, regardless of whether they actually end up dating, are invariably made aware of that fact ad nauseam.

I know two people who have ever been approached by modelling agencies, and it happened when they were two and only because they were twins.

Actually, I know a girl who is absolutely gorgeous and really wants to be a model, and she was turned down by a modelling agency because she was too short, at 5'6". She's incredibly good looking, a really nice person (though from my point of view at least I'd say she's not the sharpest tool in the shed), and really talented, but I wouldn't say she'd ever think of herself as being "top tier". She has a boyfriend, though, so she's not single, but she does everything for him and I'm not sure he does anything at all for her, so I feel like perhaps she did settle for the first guy who had the guts to ask her out because she wanted a boyfriend and no-one else would approach her.

I don't know though, maybe I've just never met anyone you'd think of as "top tier", or maybe Ireland just doesn't send modelling agencies around to approach people they think are good looking.

[JonLum]

I'd agree with that statement and add that cuteness implies relationship friendly qualities ie the engendering of adoration, where as, super hotness can interfere with women finding relationships because of the intimidation factor.

[IotaNull]

Originally Posted by FarmlandTension To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I know two people who have ever been approached by modelling agencies, and it happened when they were two and only because they were twins. Actually, I know a girl who is absolutely gorgeous and really wants to be a model, and she was turned down by a modelling agency because she was too short, at 5'6". She's incredibly good looking, a really nice person (though from my point of view at least I'd say she's not the sharpest tool in the shed), and really talented, but I wouldn't say she'd ever think of herself as being "top tier". She has a boyfriend, though, so she's not single, but she does everything for him and I'm not sure he does anything at all for her, so I feel like perhaps she did settle for the first guy who had the guts to ask her out because she wanted a boyfriend and no-one else would approach her. I don't know though, maybe I've just never met anyone you'd think of as "top tier", or maybe Ireland just doesn't send modelling agencies around to approach people they think are good looking.

That was exactly why my comment was specific to men. Women can be top tier without meeting modelling agencies' height requirements, whereas men cannot, and there aren't any other similar factors that could prevent a top tier man from modelling.

[Bre]

no. I'm very cute and i'm single. sux, buy I rather not settle for swag.

[FarmlandTension]

	Originally Posted by Iota Null To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That was exactly why my comment was specific to men. Women can be top tier without meeting modelling agencies' height requirements, whereas men cannot, and there aren't any other similar factors that could prevent a top tier man from modelling.

I find it difficult to argue with this statement objectively, as anyone over 5'10" is automatically at least marginally less attractive to me, and I believe men have to be over 6' to be approached by agencies, so it's not likely any of them would fit into what I personally would consider "top tier".

I definitely think it's entirely possible for a man to be "top tier" without being really tall though, so I suppose that does argue against your point in a more objective manner than going solely by my own personal tastes.

Take Robert Downey Jr. for example. He gets fangirls of all ages. My mother loves Robert Downey Jr., my friend's grandmother loves Robert Downey Jr., a load of people my own age find him attractive, even I think he's attractive - and he's 5'8". He doesn't fit the height requirements to be a male model. And he's not the only famously handsome guy out there who doesn't.

[ummon]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why does every average or below average man think he's entitled to an above average woman? Honestly - water finds its own level.

As low as possible?

[zeroemission]

	Why does every average or below average man think he's entitled to an above average woman?

well i imagine after getting the "you're a nice guy, but..." treatment so many times, that would make me "below average", but really, i'm more attracted to nerdy plain janes myself. maybe it's a subconscious drive to avoid disappointment or being turned out, but i really do get all worked up over awkward plain janes like the lydia character in the fisher king.

what's there not to get? it's the very same drive that women have only women see alpha in negative personality traits, and men see it in physical beauty, though we're way more equal opportunity.

the human drive is to find the fittest partner. as far as i'm concerned, men's attraction to beauty is way more honorable than women's attraction to scum regardless of looks.

[24601]

Originally Posted by FarmlandTension To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Actually, I know a girl who is absolutely gorgeous and really wants to be a model, and she was turned down by a modelling agency because she was too short, at 5'6". She's incredibly good looking, a really nice person (though from my point of view at least I'd say she's not the sharpest tool in the shed), and really talented, but I wouldn't say she'd ever think of herself as being "top tier". She has a boyfriend, though, so she's not single, but she does everything for him and I'm not sure he does anything at all for her, so I feel like perhaps she did settle for the first guy who had the guts to ask her out because she wanted a boyfriend and no-one else would approach her.

A lot of girls in print work like catalogues are shorter. It's a lot less money, but if she's cute, it's worth a shot.

[LadySpock]

Originally Posted by zeroemission To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

well i imagine after getting the "you're a nice guy, but..." treatment so many times, that would make me "below average", but really, i'm more attracted to nerdy plain janes myself. maybe it's a subconscious drive to avoid disappointment or being turned out, but i really do get all worked up over awkward plain janes like the lydia character in the fisher king. what's there not to get? it's the very same drive that women have only women see alpha in negative personality traits, and men see it in physical beauty, though we're way more equal opportunity.

How is ths more equal opportunity?

	the human drive is to find the fittest partner. as far as i'm concerned, men's attraction to beauty is way more honorable than women's attraction to scum regardless of looks.

Why is that? Elaborate.

I have also heard people say that "gold digging" is immoral and women should seek men for who they are...yet men seeking beautiful women as opposed to nice r smart women ...or women their age is OK.

[linstiks]

Originally Posted by zeroemission To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

eally do get all worked up over awkward plain janes like the lydia character in the fisher king. what's there not to get? it's the very same drive that women have only women see alpha in negative personality traits, and men see it in physical beauty, though we're way more equal opportunity. the human drive is to find the fittest partner. as far as i'm concerned, men's attraction to beauty is way more honorable than women's attraction to scum regardless of looks.

scum can usually get away with acting like scum because they have some other attractive qualities, just as attractive women can sometimes be labeled as having attitude or other negative traits, and the fittest partner does not mean someone on a different level than you so if a not so attractive guy thinks he deserves a better looking girl he's gotta have something else going for him..

---------- Post added 08-15-2012 at 10:27 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have also heard people say that "gold digging" is immoral and women should seek men for who they are...yet men seeking beautiful women as opposed to nice r smart women ...or women their age is OK.

agree...it can be more difficult for pretty women to find men who wanna know them for who they are and not what they look like, not that not that I think marrying for moneys ok, they way I see it, both parties have asset many would desire and both superficial enough to marry one for the other...

certainly, as a pretty woman, I question when someone not so attractive approaches me if its only for how I look, hence, why people should only date people of the same level of attractiveness and that doesn't make us superficial

[SeverusSin]

This entire discussion implies that we buy into rating people as "above us" or "below us" aesthetically. I don't do that so I don't lose my head over "cute girls". People are people and they look how they look. Yes, get over it. People date people for all manner of reasons, sometimes its only based on appearance sometimes its based heavily on other factors. To me its all personal preference.

If this were a discussion about something like class differences, then the criteria of analysis would be a lot easier to qualify, appearance and attractiveness are way too subjective for anything said in this discussion to be a useful thought-process for men who are looking to attract (what they consider) attractive women.

[LadySpock]

Clearly you have never experienced the heady power that males are imbued with which comes from fucking a beautiful woman.

[KeepItReal]

	Originally Posted by SeverusSin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If this were a discussion about something like class differences, then the criteria of analysis would be a lot easier to qualify, appearance and attractiveness are way too subjective for anything said in this discussion to be a useful thought-process for men who are looking to attract (what they consider) attractive women.

Only to a degree. Most people, most of the time, would find the same qualities physically attractive, much like a standard bell-curve on what is considered beautiful.

[Cat1021]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Clearly you have never experienced the heady power that males are imbued with which comes from fucking a beautiful woman.

Those are not men. Those are boys. And chances are those hot women were probably pretty dissatisfied with what they received.

[Minerva]

Don't know if anyone said this but... Uncute girls need love too.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Besiiiiiiiideeeees, "cuteness" is in the eyes of the beholder!

[isadore]

There is a lid for every pot but initially women typically considered good looking obviously generally capture the attention of a greater number of men, many lie about their relationship status because they aren't interested, for any number of an infinite list of reasons. Where/how do you meet the majority of 'cute' women? :/