[Claudus]

I would assume rape is worse for women as there is a chance they can be impregnated by the act; extremely costly in primitive times...

Rape by the sexually unattractive no doubt compounds the negatives, as the potentially resulting child is going to have those inferior genes (you'll note that in the examples provided in this thread, describing the assailant as sexually unattractive was done so to increase the perceived unpleasantness of the rape).

You'll also note that in the examples provided by the OP, the women did not resist the rape as much because the rapist was nice/attractive/higher status/etc.

For men, being raped is likely going to be mostly unpleasant due to the humiliation factor, and loss of status that may be incurred from such an act.

I'm sure there is strong instinctive wiring in human brains that provides massive negative feedback to being raped, especially for women, since the cost is quite high reproductively... though, in modern times the cost has been mitigated to some extent, human instincts have not adapted to that reality.

[Shameless]

Originally Posted by Zodd To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I confused sympathy with empathy. You say that I need to imagina myself being the victim, well if I do that, I would just read a book. So what else can I do to understand besides asking why it is so traumatizing? If something doesn't make sense to me I guess it's irrational, especially if I don't feel the same. Why would I ask irrational questions when people here say that it is rational to be traumatized. It would be great if Shameless could explain it to me, though ofcourse it's ok if she doesn't want to talk about it. But I don't understand how you can say I'm lesser than people who do empatize because it doesn't make sense to me what you say and my experience of imagining myself as a victim is different from those who do imagine it would be traumatizing.

Everyone learns/experiences/feels things differently and that's the hard part about all this. There are some who these experiences hinder them for the rest of their lives and some manage to get through it and move on. What I experienced as a child I was unable to grasp until I was older, I knew it was 'wrong' at the time but felt more uneasy and nervous around the guy. I didn't know 'why' I felt that way I just knew he was not a safe person and that he'd made me feel uncomfortable. I remember getting cold sweats any time we were somewhere where I might possibly see him after the incident and I never allowed myself to be alone with him. I was 10ish when it happened and it wasn't something I ever acknowledged was wrong until my late teens. In fact I'd pushed it away and didn't consider it as 'traumatizing' until dealing with the 2nd case when I did see that the previous incident was effecting me in ways I didn't want to admit.

The 2nd incident was traumatizing in the fact that the effect on me was immediate. There is a large sense of loss of control, misjudgement of people and their motives, the physical pain is there for various reasons. During consensual sex women of course provide their own lubrication, this doesn't happen when you're scared out of your mind. Because of this there is a large amount of tearing that goes on. I had a lot of bruising from struggling but the worst part for me was the helplessness. We all feel relatively secure in our day to day lives and an incident like that takes that away from you. We're all actually 'overly' secure and not cautious enough most times, we have a false sense of security and don't realize how quickly that security can be ripped away.

I felt helpless as it was happening and you feel dirty for giving in, you feel ashamed for not being able to defend yourself and for not fighting more. You tend to what if everything. Fear does some crazy things both in the moment and afterwards. It was hard to go out into public and not jump when someone brushed by me and I was hypersensitive to others being in my space at all for a long while. It's traumatizing in the fact that it effects your life greatly even though you don't WANT it to. You never wanted to be raped and you were. You didn't want to let it have power over your life and it did and does. It takes control away from you just like the guy did. It's frustrating and infuriating and painful and sad. That is what makes it traumatizing. I would venture to say the lasting effects are what is most traumatizing.

Now, this is person to person and depends on the actual act itself I believe. Some women are victims of rape like the guy on Reddit and it wasn't terribly violent or anything - those are a total mind fuck to me more so than what happened to me. To take yourself to someones apartment and willingly put yourself in that position and then have him 'persuade' you, it's hard to realize that it's HIM doing this in the moment, manipulating you in the moment. The person you thought he might have been was all a facade. That is scary as hell. What he did is equally as scary as his motives and the way he did it, IMO.

The ones that are violent and brutal are traumatizing for similar reasons but when you add the mental mind fuck of above, it's worse IMO. Hopefully the above helps clear things up a bit for you, I'm okay with answering questions just threw the basics of the situation out there. I'm happy to elaborate if need be.

[TenochAcampicht]

Why rape is traumatizing, a 101 for the slow by Dr. Tenoch :

# You lose control of your own body

This is traumatic, imagine not being able to control what you ingest, imagine not being able to control what you come in contact with, now imagine that in a much more intimate area and situation

# Your trust is betrayed

You feel you can trust someone (in the case of people close to the victim raping)
and this person not only does not only break that trust, but physically hurts you to get what they want, the person sees you merely as an object.

# You experience physical

Anyone who says rape isn't pailful, should try getting raped and report back.
If all the men here claim rape isn't traumatic, feel free to spend a night in jail and reach for the soap.

# There is a fear of being assaulted, murdered and/or tortured

There is a constant threat of physical violence, in place to make sure you either comply, or out of pure sadism in some cases, this leads to fear for the person's survival

# Your very sexuality is attacked

The person takes away your ability to choose, to feel for yourself and invades an extremely intimate part of your being, takes from you something, your own ability to choose, and instead replaces natural sexual stimulation with violence, pain, and fear of death.

# The probability of disease or pregnancy (in women)

There is a chance you could birth the spawn of your traumatiser, what's more is you can potentially gets HIV/AIDS.

# Psychologically it affects trust in people and provides painful flashback

People are often left anxious, grieving, guilty and in pain both physically and mentally after a rape, taking therapy which takes a while to be able to feel okay again, the trust lost is often permeated in interpersonal relations.

...

In short, don't come with this BS that rape isn't traumatic.

[Zodd]

This sounds way more real than what else has been said in this thread. I mean that I remember from other people who have been raped, and other people talking about rape say more things close to this than what everybody else has been saying here. Except Annamolly, maybe. I need to say first that I don't really have a good memory of what I was thinking/feeling before 3 years ago in regards to rape. Maybe I was just too blinded by hate towards rapists, so maybe I didn't imagine how it would be for the victim. Maybe this is the case with more people?

	Originally Posted by Shameless To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In fact I'd pushed it away and didn't consider it as 'traumatizing' until dealing with the 2nd case when I did see that the previous incident was effecting me in ways I didn't want to admit.

If the second rape didn't happen, do you think you could've got traumatized later in your life because of the first rape? And if so, what would cause this you think? Judgement from other people? The way media and people in general talk about rape? Learning what really happened and how it was wrong? Learning about sex and men?

Originally Posted by Shameless To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The 2nd incident was traumatizing in the fact that the effect on me was immediate. There is a large sense of loss of control, misjudgement of people and their motives, the physical pain is there for various reasons. During consensual sex women of course provide their own lubrication, this doesn't happen when you're scared out of your mind. Because of this there is a large amount of tearing that goes on. I had a lot of bruising from struggling but the worst part for me was the helplessness.

Misjudgement: See, I know rape happens a lot, often very violent and I've also always thought it was very bad. Maybe because of what I thought was my first encounter with it happening in a girl in my class, who rumors were she was raped and I asked what raping was and I got the answer. She didn't show up for a week(s) and didn't say what happened and she just didn't seem the same to me anymore. Never knew what had happened to her. I was also always very sensitive to movies, like any child, but the worst thing in normal movies was by far always rape for me. That movie with the Hillary Swank, and that movie with Jodie Foster on the pinball machine are most vividly in my mind. So I don't see if it happens to me why it would make my judgement of the horror different. But yeah, if you knew the guy, and thought he was a good person, you've been shown the truth sortof. I guess I just don't have that much trust in people, and also because I understand how tempting it could be to rape (though less with the power&control maybe), but I can imagine some people from which it might surprise me they would be so weak or their temptation feeling is so strong.

Helplesness: The latter part of my life I've experienced this quite much. I think something like 2 years ago, I was so uncomfortable in my skin because of that I felt so incompetent, I actually rolled on the floor because of this and this lasted a year where everyday I would spend it almost entirely in my bedroom. I totally lost believe I could ever become more than a loser, and I felt really bad as a loser, I just saw no way out. I still haven't gotten out, and I don't believe I will ever get out, but I'm feeling quite better than the perios when it was the worst. My absolute worst experience is probably a bad trip on shrooms, though, I felt and thought absolutely helpesness but also a lot of other shitty things. With both these experiences I think "my hands were tied down", there just was nothing that I think was worth a shot, and I still don't know.

	Originally Posted by Shameless To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	We all feel relatively secure in our day to day lives and an incident like that takes that away from you. We're all actually 'overly' secure and not cautious enough most times, we have a false sense of security and don't realize how quickly that security can be ripped away.

Depends on how you look at it, I think. I think anyone would like to be invincible/unbreakable because then nothing can happen to them. But they just think it's to much trouble to be more cautious, especially for women I think. Women apparently live often or atleast more than guys with a constant fear of violence/rape, but there are very few women who take up self-defense and not much carry pepperspray/gun/knife/that loud thingy with them. It seems crazy that they don't do that more often, so there probably is another reason for it besides they don't care or are to lazy. Probably they don't want to be actively confronted and thinking about rape anytime you go to self-defense class and having to deal with men attacking you, or everytime opening up your purse and see that pepperspray in it wondering if you'll use it and imagining it.

Originally Posted by Shameless To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I felt helpless as it was happening and you feel dirty for giving in, you feel ashamed for not being able to defend yourself and for not fighting more. You tend to what if everything. Fear does some crazy things both in the moment and afterwards. It was hard to go out into public and not jump when someone brushed by me and I was hypersensitive to others being in my space at all for a long while. It's traumatizing in the fact that it effects your life greatly even though you don't WANT it to. You never wanted to be raped and you were. You didn't want to let it have power over your life and it did and does. It takes control away from you just like the guy did. It's frustrating and infuriating and painful and sad. That is what makes it traumatizing. I would venture to say the lasting effects are what is most traumatizing.

These I think are the main things I don't understand. You talk about "giving in" AND you "feel ashamed for not being able to defend yourself for not fighting more." So I don't understand with what you mean with "giving in" and how it is different from "feeling ashamed for not being able to defend yourself for and for not fighting anymore." This way it looks like there is something else happening inside your head that I don't understand, and I think I remember that in more talks about rape I thought that also.

And about what you actually say about feeling ashamed you couldn't do more if you'd think about it logically because there is nothing to be ashamed of. You're probably outpowered and you are suddenly put in an act of violence. If you are outpowered there just isn't much or really anything that you can do, you could do something maybe, but that would only make it worse for yourself and maybe end up getting killed even. Not only that but the rapist had it in his mind for some time to rape and had been thinking about how to do it, maybe not with you and in that place, but he probably has thought about what good tactics are for raping. Maybe just a couple minutes before the rape, but that still makes a big difference also. While you just got sortof hit in the back of the head with a bat, or suddenly kicked in the balls, figuratevily but maybe also really something like that. And another thing, if you always thought of rape as traumatizing, when it happens to you, you panick and can't think straight, I think. Some people say they would rather be dead than raped, even victims say that, and if it is for this reason, then it doesn't make sense to me at all and I don't think I ever could imagine this feeling. See the thing that I would think at all time (I imagine) would be that if I couldn't help myself in such a situation, or only could help myself but with a chance of getting KILLED, then there just is no reason to struggle, so why feel bad about this reason? I think that if you got this clear in your head, you would also think of rape just being uncomfortable and can read a book while being raped, bit extreme, but that mindset I imagine I would have.

And so everything that you wrote after what I bolded just wouldn't cross my mind if I were raped, I imagine.

And you can also see things that the rapist is YOUR bitch, instead of the other way around. So what he can overpower you and have his way with you. What you also can see is that you are so important in his life, he needs to rape you with all the consequenses it has on him and you also. You can report him and even if not he will have to live with what he did, and unless he has a psychological disorder he will always think about it for the rest of his life, maybe just in the back of his head, but still, I know things in the back of your head can seriously make you very unhappy. He's just like a hilarious pathetic little pug humping your leg.

And also, some professionals say I might be traumatized, but there aren't many disorders/ilnesses that they haven't thought of that I could possibly have.

	Originally Posted by Shameless To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hopefully the above helps clear things up a bit for you, I'm okay with answering questions just threw the basics of the situation out there. I'm happy to elaborate if need be.

Thanks.

[Tejeira]

	Originally Posted by Kearley65 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He is the scum of the Earth. He deserves to be drug out into the street and be raped by the women he raped for the whole world to watch. If not that, just shoot the sick baster for what he did to the poor women. Those women will never be the same again.

Ha Kearley this was why i friended you.

The post on Reddit is dark. It's practically Satanic.

That man sounds so narcisstic, evil, cruel, malignant.....he is the type of person with no moral compass, views other humans as extensions of himself.....he may even rape his own daughters one day. But whether or not he does that, he has already destroyed the mental health of the women he raped.

The only good thing about acknowledging human trash like him, is to simply be aware that the human population consists of a diversity of ethical orientations, just like it has a diversity of sexual orientations.

There are people out there who truly don't mind destroying you. Don't mind manipulating you. Don't mind robbing you. Don't mind tricking you. Don't mind murdering you.

The human mind can degenerate into a sick thing, disgusting to behold.

If I was related to one of these timid college girls he tricked, manipulated, and hurt, I would smash his face into the concrete, shatter his teeth, and kick in his nose. I would slash his face with a razor blade, until his "handsome" physique was ruined, and his "real" mask was seen by all.

I wonder how he would feel, if Mr. Serial Rapist was brutalized in this manner, and then tied down and sodomized violently with a lead pipe? If he was forced to perform fellatio at gunpoint on a grown man?

The violation of a person's physical body is a violation of human rights. Sexual violation, no matter the age, is the type of degradation and humiliation that makes people commit suicide, they are so full of shame, fear, distrust, rage, confusion, wounds, self-loathing, anger.

A person that likes to inflict this type of mental torture of another should be stopped, and deserves to be brutalized.

We'll see how it works out with this guys wife, and his future kids.

Greek tragedy would predict that 2o years later, he rapes a woman at a Halloween party who is drunk or high, and takes off her mask later to find out it was his daughter.

---------- Post added 08-02-2012 at 08:59 PM ----------

Originally Posted by TenochAcampicht To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Why rape is traumatizing, a 101 for the slow by Dr. Tenoch : # You lose control of your own body This is traumatic, imagine not being able to control what you ingest, imagine not being able to control what you come in contact with, now imagine that in a much more intimate area and situation # Your trust is betrayed You feel you can trust someone (in the case of people close to the victim raping) and this person not only does not only break that trust, but physically hurts you to get what they want, the person sees you merely as an object. # You experience physical Anyone who says rape isn't pailful, should try getting raped and report back. If all the men here claim rape isn't traumatic, feel free to spend a night in jail and reach for the soap. # There is a fear of being assaulted, murdered and/or tortured There is a constant threat of physical violence, in place to make sure you either comply, or out of pure sadism in some cases, this leads to fear for the person's survival # Your very sexuality is attacked The person takes away your ability to choose, to feel for yourself and invades an extremely intimate part of your being, takes from you something, your own ability to choose, and instead replaces natural sexual stimulation with violence, pain, and fear of death. # The probability of disease or pregnancy (in women) There is a chance you could birth the spawn of your traumatiser, what's more is you can potentially gets HIV/AIDS. # Psychologically it affects trust in people and provides painful flashback People are often left anxious, grieving, guilty and in pain both physically and mentally after a rape, taking therapy which takes a while to be able to feel okay again, the trust lost is often permeated in interpersonal relations. ... In short, don't come with this BS that rape isn't traumatic.

This explains it perfectly.

Both your body AND mind are attacked, assaulted, violated.

You then are ashamed, hate yourself, want to die, blame yourself, are scared of everything, can't have sex without crying hysterically, feel your body is out of your control, are hypervigiliant, have nightmares, start taking risks with your life, either avoid men and sex altogther because you're now terrified of them, can't trust anyone, or you throw yourself into extremely dangerous sex acts with strangers because you think you don't deserve to live and don't deserve any better.

It ruins peoples lives.

I've seen over and over again....my friends who survived either childhood sexual abuse, or rape as a teen or adult......it is deeply traumatic.

[Shameless]

	Originally Posted by Zodd To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If the second rape didn't happen, do you think you could've got traumatized later in your life because of the first rape? And if so, what would cause this you think? Judgement from other people? The way media and people in general talk about rape? Learning what really happened and how it was wrong? Learning about sex and men?

You mean would the suppressed feelings/memories have eventually come up and traumatized me? Possibly. I still don’t consider things that happened to me then as traumatizing as the 2nd incident. As a child you are able to suppress a lot and there’s something to be said for the lack of realization of what’s going on around you. Yes you feel helpless but you are able to fully rationalize in your mind why you didn’t react and/or that the person was fully just taking advantage. The ways it affected me more had to do with trust issues with believing in people being who they say they are, being cautious of anyone and everyone. I’ve had sexual promiscuity issues throughout my life but I don’t directly correlate it with being raped or any issues with my own self worth, it relates more to my lack of value on sex to me. Through my teenage years sex was not a big deal, I was very open to exploring and it made me ‘feel’ when a lot of normal things tended not to.

Suppressing emotions has been a common thread in my life. Way before the first incident and continues to be to this day. Do these incidents exacerbate the issue? To some extent, yes. But when you go through mental break downs and panic attacks and your body fights with you to make you feel as mine has, you begin to listen.

Originally Posted by Zodd To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Misjudgement: See, I know rape happens a lot, often very violent and I've also always thought it was very bad. Maybe because of what I thought was my first encounter with it happening in a girl in my class, who rumors were she was raped and I asked what raping was and I got the answer. She didn't show up for a week(s) and didn't say what happened and she just didn't seem the same to me anymore. Never knew what had happened to her. I was also always very sensitive to movies, like any child, but the worst thing in normal movies was by far always rape for me. That movie with the Hillary Swank, and that movie with Jodie Foster on the pinball machine are most vividly in my mind. So I don't see if it happens to me why it would make my judgement of the horror different. But yeah, if you knew the guy, and thought he was a good person, you've been shown the truth sortof. I guess I just don't have that much trust in people, and also because I understand how tempting it could be to rape (though less with the power&control maybe), but I can imagine some people from which it might surprise me they would be so weak or their temptation feeling is so strong.

There is a lot of gray area here and you answer a lot of it in your statement bellow about realizing there isn’t more one could have done. In the moment though, it doesn’t stop you from FEELING a certain way. And I think that is what you may miss a bit. I absolutely have over time been able to rationalize it all and absolutely agree with a lot of what you have said – but there are steps when these things happen to you that occur whether one likes it or not.

I consider myself a strong minded, able person that isn’t fooled by many. What throws one off is when you start reacting to things in ways you can’t control. In example, for quite a while I couldn’t fight off nausea before going out at night because of the anxiety of the unknown. Even if I was going out with friends I was worried all the time. I could tell myself in my head all I wanted that I was okay and amongst friends and safe but it didn’t stop it. It is a reaction your body has. You can’t explain a subconscious drive to a conscious mind. It’s very difficult to explain to someone who has never experienced something like a true panic attack or nervous breakdown how it feels because it is your body taking over and saying “It’s time to shut down now. You have no choice.” And once you reach that point it truly is unnerving. When you experience trauma a lot of times similar things happen. Another example, if you’ve ever been in a terrible car accident, you may not be able to control your reaction when going to get into a car again or when someone slams on the breaks in front of you, you immediately jump more than you might have before the accident. Or if you were rear ended being hyper sensitive to people flying up on your ass in traffic.

Originally Posted by Zodd To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

These I think are the main things I don't understand. You talk about "giving in" AND you "feel ashamed for not being able to defend yourself for not fighting more." So I don't understand with what you mean with "giving in" and how it is different from "feeling ashamed for not being able to defend yourself for and for not fighting anymore." This way it looks like there is something else happening inside your head that I don't understand, and I think I remember that in more talks about rape I thought that also. And about what you actually say about feeling ashamed you couldn't do more if you'd think about it logically because there is nothing to be ashamed of. You're probably outpowered and you are suddenly put in an act of violence. If you are outpowered there just isn't much or really anything that you can do, you could do something maybe, but that would only make it worse for yourself and maybe end up getting killed even.

Logic. That is the issue with a lot of trauma. Despite your own logical thinking it is not stopping your reactions. These days I have absolutely thought of and rationalized everything down to a T and 100 times over since then. I don’t blame myself but that doesn’t mean I didn’t go through a period where I did to some extent and what if’ed everything under the sun. Just because I told myself in my mind there was nothing I could have done didn’t stop the knots in my stomach or the anxiety that built up. That is where I find people have a disconnect with this type of experience. If you ever have the urge or time I strongly recommend going over Sympathetic and Parasympathetic nervous system in your body and how they operate and effects of long term stress/suppression on them. You can’t always control what your body feels and/or why it feels the way it does. Trauma is not optional. Whether or not you recover from it, IMO, is to a great extent. Though I do believe there is a level of trauma that one cannot recover fully from.

Literally everything you posted in the feeling helpless/misjudgement/ etc. I have thought of and truly do believe for the most part NOW. But it has taken a lot of work to get there. It wasn’t at all as instinctual to return as I thought it would be. It broke me down in ways I didn’t expect and that in and of itself makes recovery harder when you aren’t getting back on your feet the way you want to or as fast as you’d like. It’s one of those processes that is slow and tedious and despite the fact that I had no control over how or why the guy did what he did, I was responsible for my own actions and could have protected myself more effectively. That is a hard pill to swallow knowing that you COULD have done more to prevent yourself from being harmed.. because I could have. I didn’t give in in the sense you are thinking I mean, I actually didn’t do a lot of thinking in the moment. I felt sick, scared, infuriated, and disgusted but thoughts were relatively simple in the moment. When I say I gave in, I resigned myself to what was happening physically despite the fight going on in my head and emotionally. I didn’t fight anymore because it was making things worse. In hind sight of course one thinks “I should have, would have, could have..” but it’s about accepting things as they happened cause I can’t change shit, I can only work on the present and future.

[Claudus]

Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The human mind can degenerate into a sick thing, disgusting to behold. If I was related to one of these timid college girls he tricked, manipulated, and hurt, I would smash his face into the concrete, shatter his teeth, and kick in his nose. I would slash his face with a razor blade, until his "handsome" physique was ruined, and his "real" mask was seen by all. I wonder how he would feel, if Mr. Serial Rapist was brutalized in this manner, and then tied down and sodomized violently with a lead pipe? If he was forced to perform fellatio at gunpoint on a grown man?

Oh, humans are dark and brutal creatures that are quite capable of committing terrible acts against one another, don't you think?

It seems to me that society is better off when people like this are simply removed in some way, rather than punished by perpetuating brutality.

[ummon]

	Originally Posted by Midhiel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	( Show Spoiler ) Probably because they fail to understand what rape really means and are actually just thinking of a fantasy in which a woman dominates them in sex.

Originally Posted by Midhiel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

( Show Spoiler ) What about the word "forced" is difficult to understand? That is not, "I really want you to have sex with me right now, I have this gun to look scary." "Okay, I don't mind!" That is, "You are going to have sex with me right now regardless of the fact that you don't want to, you have no choice in the matter because I am forcing you." Stop thinking about a woman riding your dick and start thinking about a woman shoving To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. up your ass without any kind of lube and without letting you feel comfortable, then sliding it in and out regardless of the fact that you're in pain and probably bleeding. Like, I really do not understand why the fact that rape is unpleasant, period, is difficult to understand. There is no question. If you're okay with it and enjoy it happening, it's not rape.

Originally Posted by Midhiel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

( Show Spoiler ) No, men don't see it that way. People who lack understanding see it that way. Rape is painful penetration in a private area. It is not a normal use of sexual organs. Normal use involves allowing the female's body to be prepared to have something stuck inside of it. Which will not happen if she isn't accepting of it. Normal use also involves avoiding pain and working toward pleasure. None of these things happen with rape. I mean, I generally assume that an adult should understand the basic workings of sexual intercourse, but at this point I have to ask - do you actually know how it works? There is nothing normal about shoving something into a dry hole, whether it's a vagina or an anus. Because it fucking hurts.

	Originally Posted by katatonic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	( Show Spoiler ) He's never going to get it until it happens to him. I think that's the only way he will finally understand it. It's not this complicated to understand rape and why it is painful both psychically and mentally no matter the gender being raped and doing the raping.

	Originally Posted by katatonic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	( Show Spoiler ) Ok you really don't understand. I'm not going to explain again how a woman raping a man can cause pain. I'll just let you continue to think that a woman raping a man is all good times with a penis and a vagina. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You guys (or should I say gals) are emphasizing the violence/pain angle here, but I don't think that's all there is to the issue. After all, what about forced oral sex (which is now classified as rape)? Not painful but still very traumatic.

[Midhiel]

	Originally Posted by ummon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You guys (or should I say gals) are emphasizing the violence/pain angle here, but I don't think that's all there is to the issue. After all, what about forced oral sex (which is now classified as rape)? Not painful but still very traumatic.

I dunno, I've never been raped in the mouth but I can imagine that some serious choking would go down. Combine that with hyperventilating in terror and I'm sure it's still a pretty awful experience, if not as physically painful as vaginal or anal rape.

But you're right, the pain isn't the sole reason for trauma. It's just something important that was being dismissed by certain posters.

[ummon]

	Originally Posted by Midhiel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I dunno, I've never been raped in the mouth but I can imagine that some serious choking would go down. Combine that with hyperventilating in terror and I'm sure it's still a pretty awful experience, if not as physically painful as vaginal or anal rape. But you're right, the pain isn't the sole reason for trauma. It's just something important that was being dismissed by certain posters.

Yeah they're definitely overlooking the pain involved (especially bad was the "just let him do his thing" post).

But I do see where he was coming from about male vs female aggression. I don't think most men think about the pain aspect when they empathize with a man who was raped by a man, but not with a man who was raped by a woman. I think that rather than being male vs female aggression, the issue is that culture has taught us that heterosexual men want sex all the time with every woman.

[INTJRyan]

	Originally Posted by ummon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You guys (or should I say gals) are emphasizing the violence/pain angle here, but I don't think that's all there is to the issue. After all, what about forced oral sex (which is now classified as rape)? Not painful but still very traumatic.

Uhm wouldn't you be concerned with the whole biting your genitals off aspect? And forced oral is not painful? How did you dream that up? Virgin right?

[curiousgeorge01]

	Originally Posted by ummon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But I do see where he was coming from about male vs female aggression. I don't think most men think about the pain aspect when they empathize with a man who was raped by a man, but not with a man who was raped by a woman. I think that rather than being male vs female aggression, the issue is that culture has taught us that heterosexual men want sex all the time with every woman.

If you're referring to my posts yes that's why I was interested in looking at the breakdown regarding which gender raped who and what was the traumatic effect on each.

Also most men don't really think about the pain aspect b/c sex doesn't hurt them. I was trying to get them to look at it from the men's point of view why they don't really relate as well; most men just think of it as bad but they don't give it much thought. Meanwhile a few of them kept saying "why don't you get it" to which I'm responding "if you were in our shoes you would know why we wouldn't get it as well." The feeling is different, the fear is different.

[ummon]

	Originally Posted by INTJRyan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Uhm wouldn't you be concerned with the whole biting your genitals off aspect? And forced oral is not painful? How did you dream that up? Virgin right?

I haven't performed oral on a guy, so any judgement as to the pain involved is pure speculation. I'll have to differ to you on that.

And there was a post in the reddit thread, and the girl involved didn't report biting his genitals off...

[INTJRyan]

	Originally Posted by ummon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I haven't performed oral on a guy, so any judgement as to the pain involved is pure speculation. I'll have to differ to you on that. And there was a post in the reddit thread, and the girl involved didn't report biting his genitals off...

Yes because you need to objectively experience something to know if it causes pain.

My point was that I would imagine rates of forced oral to be much lower because of the presence of a natural rape deterrent known as teeth.

[Midhiel]

	Originally Posted by ummon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think that rather than being male vs female aggression, the issue is that culture has taught us that heterosexual men want sex all the time with every woman.

I would tend to agree. It's not like women can't very easily hurt men (they often do). Society just dictates that men will always be cool with having sex, because, duh, they're men. That's all they ever want.

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Also most men don't really think about the pain aspect b/c sex doesn't hurt them. I was trying to get them to look at it from the men's point of view why they don't really relate as well; most men just think of it as bad but they don't give it much thought. Meanwhile a few of them kept saying "why don't you get it" to which I'm responding "if you were in our shoes you would know why we wouldn't get it as well." The feeling is different, the fear is different.

Anal rape. Already discussed. And before you talk about male on male, anal rape does not necessitate two men being involved. Anal rape could be male on female or female on male, as has already been mentioned several times.

	Originally Posted by ummon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I haven't performed oral on a guy, so any judgement as to the pain involved is pure speculation. I'll have to differ to you on that.

Hate to bring up cucumbers again, but go find a big one and shove it in your mouth roughly. I'm sure it'll hurt. Just not necessarily the same type of pain as vaginal or anal pain.

	Originally Posted by ummon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And there was a post in the reddit thread, and the girl involved didn't report biting his genitals off...

Well...I don't imagine that having the remains of a bloody penis in your mouth is any more enjoyable than forced oral sex. That and the man's reaction would only add to the trauma.

[curiousgeorge01]

	Originally Posted by Midhiel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Anal rape. Already discussed. And before you talk about male on male, anal rape does not necessitate two men being involved. Anal rape could be male on female or female on male, as has already been mentioned several times.

But you're equating anal rape to vaginal rape and they're not the same thing. On top of that being anal raped by a male vs a female are two different things...again which is why I want to see the reports on them. I find it odd that some posters are just rolling them all together and saying "they're the same." It's like saying being shot, knifed and burned are all the same b/c you all end up dead.

[Midhiel]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But you're equating anal rape to vaginal rape and they're not the same thing. On top of that being anal raped by a male vs a female are two different things...again which is why I want to see the reports on them. I find it odd that some posters are just rolling them all together and saying "they're the same." It's like saying being shot, knifed and burned are all the same b/c you all end up dead.

Um, what? I'm not equating anything. I don't think anyone is. Someone has already stated that because you don't have a vagina (to my knowledge), the closest comparison is anal rape. It's simple.

[ummon]

	Originally Posted by INTJRyan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes because you need to objectively experience something to know if it causes pain. My point was that I would imagine rates of forced oral to be much lower because of the presence of a natural rape deterrent known as teeth.

Well in the particular example in that reddit thread, the girl, who was 15 at the time, didn't no what the hell was going on. She didn't mention feeling any pain.

	Originally Posted by Midhiel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hate to bring up cucumbers again, but go find a big one and shove it in your mouth roughly. I'm sure it'll hurt. Just not necessarily the same type of pain as vaginal or anal pain.

Hmm. I'm actually going to try that...

	Well...I don't imagine that having the remains of a bloody penis in your mouth is any more enjoyable than forced oral sex. That and the man's reaction would only add to the trauma.

I'd imagine the man's reaction would be to pass out due to shock.

[SeverusSin]

Anal rape, vaginal rape and sexually assault to the face are different things but are all equally violations. The distinction should be made that the mouth and vagina are designed to have things put in whereas the anus is not. This plays a role in the shame associated with man on man or woman on man that may be different to how a woman may feel about herself being vaginally raped. Let's not ignore the distinction, and lets not confuse the distinction with one being worse than the other, they are all elements of rape / sexual assault.

[sunitaishot]

Originally Posted by SeverusSin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Anal rape, vaginal rape and sexually assault to the face are different things but are all equally violations. The distinction should be made that the mouth and vagina are designed to have things put in whereas the anus is not. This plays a role in the shame associated with man on man or woman on man that may be different to how a woman may feel about herself being vaginally raped. Let's not ignore the distinction, and lets not confuse the distinction with one being worse than the other, they are all elements of rape / sexual assault.

Yet you say in other fora that nothing matters. yay, consistency....

---------- Post added 08-08-2012 at 07:58 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by ummon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well in the particular example in that reddit thread, the girl, who was 15 at the time, didn't no what the hell was going on. She didn't mention feeling any pain. Hmm. I'm actually going to try that... I'd imagine the man's reaction would be to pass out due to shock.

For somebody of a supposed Muslim appearance, you often have very cold views/beliefs.

[SeverusSin]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yet you say in other fora that nothing matters. yay, consistency....

Don't simply point at something that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic at hand...nonsense. Seriously, c'mon gotta try harder than that. What I've said is a welcome addition to this thread and you know that so don't be silly.

We all know when I'm just having a laugh, I don't expect a sensible response but when I provide a sensible response I expect the courtesy of one. Cheers
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Anyway, back on topic. My point still stands that anal rape is inherently different to vaginal and facial rape (forced oral sex). I'm sure many men can elaborate further as I've already given my reasoning.

[sunitaishot]

I'm just curious. If nothing really matters, this includes sexual assault, does it not?

[hi5yourface]

Originally Posted by SeverusSin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Don't simply point at something that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic at hand...nonsense. Seriously, c'mon gotta try harder than that. What I've said is a welcome addition to this thread and you know that so don't be silly. We all know when I'm just having a laugh, I don't expect a sensible response but when I provide a sensible response I expect the courtesy of one. Cheers To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Anyway, back on topic. My point still stands that anal rape is inherently different to vaginal and facial rape (forced oral sex). I'm sure many men can elaborate further as I've already given my reasoning.

So, what if a male orally raped another male? Simply because one has an open door orifice does not make the rape of that orifice any less horrific.

[ummon]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	For somebody of a supposed Muslim appearance, you often have very cold views/beliefs.

I'm an atheist of Hindu ancestry, although I legitimately look Muslim.

But I don't get your point about cold views/beliefs. The fact that I felt like throwing up while reading the Reddit thread ideally shouldn't prevent me from objectively analyzing the issue at hand.

[catzmeow]

Originally Posted by Shameless To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I consider myself a strong minded, able person that isn’t fooled by many. What throws one off is when you start reacting to things in ways you can’t control. In example, for quite a while I couldn’t fight off nausea before going out at night because of the anxiety of the unknown. Even if I was going out with friends I was worried all the time. I could tell myself in my head all I wanted that I was okay and amongst friends and safe but it didn’t stop it. It is a reaction your body has. You can’t explain a subconscious drive to a conscious mind. It’s very difficult to explain to someone who has never experienced something like a true panic attack or nervous breakdown how it feels because it is your body taking over and saying “It’s time to shut down now. You have no choice.” And once you reach that point it truly is unnerving. When you experience trauma a lot of times similar things happen. Another example, if you’ve ever been in a terrible car accident, you may not be able to control your reaction when going to get into a car again or when someone slams on the breaks in front of you, you immediately jump more than you might have before the accident. Or if you were rear ended being hyper sensitive to people flying up on your ass in traffic.

I think it helps to explain that it's linked to our fight/flight impulses. So, we all probably know what it feels like when something really terrifying happens, like a near miss car accident or something, and we feel sick and drugged and incredibly disoriented and terrified and almost like we can't move.

Now, imagine having that feeling without any warning and for no apparent reason. that's what a panic attack feels like. Your body/brain links the trauma to the fight or flight impulse and the fight/flight turns on whenever something happens that reminds you of the traumatic incident. It might be a sound, or a smell, or darkness, or a scary movie, or a phrase a person says, or the way someone looks...those things happen and your body goes through the trauma response all over again, without any way for you to think your way out of it.

I don't know if that helps, but it's an attempt.