[INTroJect]

I took the flight yesterday to Casablanca. For those familiar with other threads.... fuck latin America. It's boring and there's nothing new about any of it. Africa is more interesting and my Arabic was getting rusty anyway. Ramadan started about a week ago and they served dinner on the flight like 15 minutes before eating time, it felt rude to dig in while people were praying at their food, so I waited until they started eating first. The same thing happened again at breakfast time. While mulling around the city, the only people eating were their children, and the fat dumb spoiled and disease-infested foreigners, so I decided that I would join in on Ramadan. This isn't my first, but was undecided about joining this one until arriving, and I am starting about a week late.

-For dinner last night I had 1/2 a roasted chicken, harira (soup with chickpeas), a bit of yellow azafran rice, and a garnish dish made with the neck, washed it all down about an hour later with grapefruit juice.
-Chowed down on a few snails with piping hot broth later in the night, reminded me of the bug eating thread
-For breakfast I had a bunch of grapes, about 8 super fresh figs, 2 plums, a peach, and 2 little serving cups of yoghurt.

Some people have a cow about fasting, but it's really not that big of a deal. They say doctor this and doctor that regarding skipping meals, then they go on about doctor this and expert that regarding the growing obesity, and it's all a big useless load of crap. Fasting during Ramadan, or in general, is good for building balance and fortitude for difficult times, and getting in tune with nature, along with something spiritual about the moon and yadda yadda etc. It's not uncommon to lose 10,15, or 20 pounds during the period. People will sometimes gain as much over the course of a year, then it adds up over the years, thus comprising our western society of confused obease people trying to figure out what kind of chemical to injest into their body so as not to be obease. They blame genetics, LOL, or they blame corporate America, LOL, as opposed to the decisions of the obease individuals responsible, and complete morons go on to waste everyone's time and lives trumpeting retarded schemes, like taxing food, and banning big gulp beverages. A tidbit of universal truth - People who fancy themselves to be smarter than they are will often have the most difficulty comprehending simplicity.

There are other things to Ramadan, like various prayer times, but the only part I pay particular attention to is when it's time to chow down
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. Every now and then I'll join in on a prayer, it's only like 20 minutes and really not that different from going to Catholic mass. All you have to do is *NOT TALK*, as I learned that lesson the awkward way, and follow the motions along with everyone else. There are some short things to say, but all you have to do is open your mouth and make soft mumbling noises and nobody will notice a difference. They don't check for your Islamo credentials before going into the mosque, no secret handshakes or anything like that. Nothing to be intimidated about.

Then there are some things to keep in mind when fasting. For example, expect to get a headache for the first or second day, then the body adjusts and it all becomes normal. Don't eat too much or anything heavy when first breaking the fast. Stay away from things that are too salty, avoid the sun, and drink a lot of water at night, or hunker down under the expectation of what will be a particularly miserable day. The chicken last night wasn't my ideal meal but it was the only thing nearby that looked inviting, tonight I'll be looking for some tajine! The hardest part about fasting is really just getting past the first or second day because the body is like "WTF dude?" But then it becomes like regular business and it makes for a very healthy and invigorating process.

I suspect that, due to the fortitude built up during years of Ramadan, it will be the Islamic members of our society who will hold the greater composure should we be inevitably hit with another bout of extended poverty, similar to what we had around the turn of the last century. There is also a religious aspect to it in that, as enticing as the short-term benefits might sound, we should not be using false weights and measures. The Federal reserve being our greatest culprit of manipulating false measures of interest rates, and thus setting us all up for the massive societal imbalances and economic blowbacks that come from it. Yes, even if codified into law, it's still no less of a sin!

Anyhoo. I suppose this should go into the cuture thread, so welcome to my thread on secular Ramadan, Morocco, Africa, Arabic, and everything else. What would you like to ask?

[Apophenia]

But don't the Mormons have like 40 years of food in their pantries?
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That sounds like an interesting experience. I tried fasting once, it only lasted for 3 days though - a wonderful experience.

It really does send the mind/body into a very minimalist mode. Refreshing somehow... Did you have any spiritual revelations?

[Subgenius]

lol, move over weight watchers, here comes the muslims.

[INTroJect]

	Originally Posted by Apophenia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But don't the Mormons have like 40 years of food in their pantries? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Omg really? Go mormons!

	Originally Posted by Apophenia
	That sounds like an interesting experience. I tried fasting once, it only lasted for 3 days though - a wonderful experience.

What sort of regime did you follow?

	Originally Posted by Apophenia
	It really does send the mind/body into a very minimalist mode. Refreshing somehow... Did you have any spiritual revelations?

Joining in on this has reminded me of the ultimate oneness of man, but how we are easily demagogued into hating each other. Peace is a very real possibility, and a lot of it has to do with just allowing other people to live freely. That would probably sum up my spiritual reflections from it as of late. My personal path with Islam, although I have never converted, has been a very turbulent one. It started as naive, then curious, then angry, lately it has turned into a reserved acceptance. We should hardly be angry over matters in their doctrine if we are blatantly doing the very things that their doctrine warns them about.

[Apophenia]

I ate light for a day or two, + 3 days fasting, walking, resting and reflecting. I broke the fast with melon and something else I don't remember three days later. How many days did you fast?

Agreed on the peace and humanism. I'm thankful I have the option to choose peace...

Yep, religion is a pretty emotional thing. Do you have any religious beliefs past or present? You seem pretty understanding.

[mieu]

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I found the fasting part boring. Cultural sampling is cool.

[Malkavia]

I've been in the Middle East three times during Ramadan.

Its not fun.

[Antares]

I think it should go both ways. When in Country of Eternal Feasts, eat like a pig, or at least, don't complain when others do when you're fasting. I dole as much cultural sensitivity as I receive. If I am expected to conform to your ways when I'm in your country, I expect the same of you. When I go to America, I tip. When I'm not in America, I don't tip. Simple.

If I really dislike tipping I'd stay far, far away from America.

[INTroJect]

	Originally Posted by Apophenia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I ate light for a day or two, + 3 days fasting, walking, resting and reflecting. I broke the fast with melon and something else I don't remember three days later. How many days did you fast?

Currently fasting for 3rd day, but the regime is to not eat or drink during the hours of the day, and it goes for about 3 more weeks. Breafast today was at 4am then dinner will be at 7:30 pm. When you say you fasted for the 3 days, this was the entire time without food?

	Originally Posted by Apophenia
	Yep, religion is a pretty emotional thing. Do you have any religious beliefs past or present? You seem pretty understanding.

Raised very lightly in the Lutheran church, but didn't really think anything about religion unti later in life. There was a period of a year or two later in life when I was spending a lot of time reading books at Barnes and Nobles. Most of it then was on economics, finance, philosophy and a bit of Buddhism (Dali Lama) here and there. One day I picked up "Experiments With Truth" by Mahatma Gandhi. By far this has been one of my most favorite books and it started a loooong inquiry into theology. Went from him to reading Martin Luther King, Hindu texts, Buddhist texts, bible, koran, attended service at various christian denominations, mosques, really just following my intuition investigating into the world of theology. Ultimately, I can't say I believe, as belief is a matter of the heart, but I am intrigued by religion as a philosophy and find it distasteful how people go about crusading against religious belief.

The old testament of the Bible was infuriating and gave me nightmares, something seems quite unholy about that, as if it does not belong in that book for some reason. The New Testament was neat and the Jesus part was more worthwhile. I don't see a contradiction with apprecating Jesus, along the same lines as appreciating Gandhi, but not believing in the religion itself. Christians get blamed a lot for doing or supporting a lot of things contrary to Christanity, for example, Israel or the wars in Iraq. Perhaps, rather than society harassing them for their beliefs, it would be more productive for society to remind them of what Christanity is, and it would be the complete opposite to what a lot of them are doing.

[Apophenia]

What, you all eat breakfast and dinner? Weird. It seems more like a torture that way. And you can't drink anything during the day? Water doesn't seem like much of an indulgence to me! Fasting by my definition is abstaining from consuming anything with caloric value, I drank as much water as I wanted. My fast: no food for three days and nights.

I found some eastern religious philosophy pretty refreshing - of course I had the benefit of taking it lightly like you. Have you read Gibran's book the Prophet? Don't forget to investigate general mysticism

[Distance]

Ramadan fasting is hilarious. You've eaten more in 24 hours than I normally eat in 48.

[INTroJect]

	Originally Posted by Apophenia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What, you all eat breakfast and dinner? Weird. It seems more like a torture that way.

It can be. When I first did it I was not sure about ignoring body signals to eat, like I thought I was going to pass out, die, have a heart attack, or something etc. It took a while to realize that there was really nothing to be alarmed about.

Last night I ate in town at about 3 or 4am, then went to sleep for a bit. It's now 2 in the afternoon and my stomach is grumbling. Just a few days of this already and my pants are feeling a bit large. When I do eat now it's a lot less and more work to get it down.

	Originally Posted by Apophenia
	And you can't drink anything during the day? Water doesn't seem like much of an indulgence to me! Fasting by my definition is abstaining from consuming anything with caloric value, I drank as much water as I wanted. My fast: no food for three days and nights.

Did you set the three day time for the fast ahead of time or did it come to that after you started?

Did you notice a weight difference from it?

My first time to do Ramadan I drank a lot of water, but traditionally no water at all during the day. This time I haven't been drinking any but making sure to down a lot of fluids at night.

	Originally Posted by Apophenia
	I found some eastern religious philosophy pretty refreshing - of course I had the benefit of taking it lightly like you. Have you read Gibran's book the Prophet? Don't forget to investigate general mysticism

I don't know Gibran's book. You recommend it? The wiki page on it looks interesting, and it has high ratings in google books. Maybe I will be able to find it in Arabic.

What do you mean by "general mysticism"?

Right now I am reading Stephen Hawking's latest book on the Universe. It has quite a bit on aspects of existentialism, scientific method, and quantum mechanics/physics. All areas that are actually very helpful in conceptualizing my work in investments, normally I go digging into old esoteric things and it's been nice reading something good on this topic in modern prose. Perhaps I will keep an eye open for Gibran's book when finished with this.

[Mohammad]

It is always interesting to read a non-Muslim's take on fasting. May I briefly add that food should not at all be the first thing on my mind during fasting. My own pre-dawn meal is light as is my dusk meal. I simply do not gorge/indulge myself - there are much more important things to do.

I am in Dubai now. The temperature is regularly 120 degrees. Yet here we fast no differently. It is a case of mind of matter, cliched though that saying may be.

Personal experience, I hope you agree INTroJect, simply has no equal.

[INTroJect]

Oh look. We have a little Ramadaner club...

	Originally Posted by Mohammad To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It is always interesting to read a non-Muslim's take on fasting. May I briefly add that food should not at all be the first thing on my mind during fasting. My own pre-dawn meal is light as is my dusk meal. I simply do not gorge/indulge myself - there are much more important things to do.

I can see it getting to the point where food comes off the mind, but I'm still a noob so trying to adjust into it. Last Ramadan I only did a week of it but still drank a ton of water during the day. I thought I was going to just drop dead or something from not eating during the day, it takes a little getting used to. This time it's much more controlled, like I can go ok without the water, but still inclined to make up as many calories as I can stand at night, even though the hunger is completely gone just after a bite or two. I can see myself eating a lot less as I get more accustomed to manuevering this, but I guess Im still worried about finding myself too weak during the day.

Right now I just broke the fast with a bowl of soup, some dates, the white from a boiled egg, and a salad. The soup and dates would have been more than sufficient. I see some people having just hot tea. Ill try having less at fajr and see how it goes during the day.

	Originally Posted by Mohammad
	I am in Dubai now. The temperature is regularly 120 degrees. Yet here we fast no differently. It is a case of mind of matter, cliched though that saying may be. Personal experience, I hope you agree INTroJect, simply has no equal.

It does have no equal. I can see people who do not fast are more ruled by the hunger signals from their body, as opposed to having more awareness and control over them. It seems like a common mantra in the USA to not let oneself go hungry, ever. Ironic then how the country is so grotesquely obease and the solutions proposed, supposedly backed by "experts" of all sorts, are just as dumb as can be.

Like there was a thread in this forum about poverty in America, with a video of some fat kids who maybe had to skip a meal once. People just cant fathom it like it's the end of the world that some plump whiny little kid's mom didn't cook him dinner.

[Apophenia]

Did you feel that the physiological changes from fasting caused a temporary re-establishment of priorities? It did for me - I think that's part of why it's such a common religious practice. I think the starved brain hushes brain activity to a more pure survival-mode and also gives you a high as a survival mechanism.

I don't recall what my exact plan was for fasting. I think I wanted to go a week, but decided my schedule only allowed three days. I'm sure I lost weight, but I only assume that because I felt light. Probably no more than 5 lbs.

Yes I recommend the Prophet. It has a new testament biblical flavor if you have that in your past, but the Prophet is more metaphorical, meditative...not technically religious. Does not require any acceptance or dismissal of anything. You can find it online in english.
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General mysticism... There are interesting practices in mysticism similar to fasting which serve a spiritual tool, if you're interested in that. I enjoyed learning to use rune stones, for example.

Would you mind telling me more about your work in investments? How does this apply?

[Mohammad]

I've been fasting annually for as many years as I can remember. I honestly don't recall ever having getting 'used to it'.
I suppose the body invariably falls into compliance with the lack of food and water.

[INTroJect]

Weighed myself. Down 7 lbs.

[24601]

	Originally Posted by Antares To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If I really dislike tipping I'd stay far, far away from America.

Do Americans really tip that much? I'm American, and I've never tipped anyone other than cab drivers, waiters, tattoo artists, maids, and maybe a hotel concierge in America, and then, never like 20% more than the bill unless they did an AMAZING job. I was told in Western Europe tipping 10-15% is more the norm since they tend to have more service charges added to your bill.

[Ranya]

I would like to add that fasting is not only a means to control personal desire, but it forces those who fast to be reminded of the people who go hungry. Its very easy not to give a crap and ignore everything wrong in the world, but when you are forced into hunger and thirst you realize how much more worse it would feel to be starving.

[INTroJect]

Down 8 lbs, and ramadan just ended. Happy eid whatever-it's-called everybody!

Since I started Ramadan late, according to scripture, I am supposed to make up the days that I missed. I foget how many days it will be, maybe another week or two. Should I play catch up?

[Mohammad]

	Originally Posted by INTroJect To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Down 8 lbs, and ramadan just ended. Happy eid whatever-it's-called everybody! Since I started Ramadan late, according to scripture, I am supposed to make up the days that I missed. I foget how many days it will be, maybe another week or two. Should I play catch up?

Eid Mubarak to you too, my friend.
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Play catch up if for no other reason then for completeness's sake. You can make up for your missed fasts as soon as the three days of Eid festivities are over.

[Alderamin]

How coincidental, I was in Casablanca during Ramadan two years ago. I didn't observe it other than not eating in public, just indoors at home. One time I did get some takeout and had a bit of a nosh on it and the shopkeeper asked me to stop, so I did.

One of the most charming things about my neighborhood in Casa was how the streets would come alive with foodsellers at nightfall, with them peddling fruits, vegetables, fish and the like out of carts drawn by donkeys.

As well, it is HOT there during Ramadan and I basically became nocturnal during the worst part of it because I did not have air conditioning.

I enjoyed northern Morocco a lot, too, particularly Chefchaouen and Asilah.

Also agree with you that Latin America sucks shit.

[Zsych]

The Muslim style - eat till your stomach is half or three quarters full, or fasting - is in general likely to increase your life expectancy. Similar to why the Okinawans have a longer life span.

(I think its also generally a better idea, since it doesn't put you into a food coma
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)

I'm not sure the whole 'eat a little every three hours' technique has ever worked well for me - although I tried it continuously for a couple of months.

[INTroJect]

	Originally Posted by Mohammad To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Eid Mubarak to you too, my friend. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Play catch up if for no other reason then for completeness's sake. You can make up for your missed fasts as soon as the three days of Eid festivities are over.

Oah great. Because I ate some figs this morning thinking I wasn't going to do it, but now you may have changed my mind since I am allowed to take a break for a few days. So, if I started on the 2nd... how many more days would I do to finish it?

---------- Post added 08-20-2012 at 05:43 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Alderamin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

How coincidental, I was in Casablanca during Ramadan two years ago. I didn't observe it other than not eating in public, just indoors at home. One time I did get some takeout and had a bit of a nosh on it and the shopkeeper asked me to stop, so I did. One of the most charming things about my neighborhood in Casa was how the streets would come alive with foodsellers at nightfall, with them peddling fruits, vegetables, fish and the like out of carts drawn by donkeys.

Ya. I chased down the fig donkey cart boy yesterday, the best price around for figs. 10 dirhams for a kilo! $0.51 a pound!

	Originally Posted by alderamin
	As well, it is HOT there during Ramadan and I basically became nocturnal during the worst part of it because I did not have air conditioning.

You totally could have done ramadan. Just sleep during the day and eat at night and they are so impressed by it.

	Originally Posted by alderamin
	I enjoyed northern Morocco a lot, too, particularly Chefchaouen and Asilah.

Chefchauen is amazing. It's like islamo-tibet. Northern morocco was a bit anoying because everyone would speak to me in spanish and I prefer to speak arabic, so I tend to cozy more around the sothern non-berber areas.

---------- Post added 08-20-2012 at 05:44 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	(I think its also generally a better idea, since it doesn't put you into a food coma To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. )

(Mmm. Ramadan food coma. My favorite.)

[Zsych]

	Originally Posted by INTroJect To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	(Mmm. Ramadan food coma. My favorite.)

+20 pounds later... What? I was fasting for a whole month!

--

Ramadan also serves the purpose of giving you a month a year to actually focus on trying to be a better human being. And people often take the last ten days as more serious than the start of the month.

	Originally Posted by Malkavia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I've been in the Middle East three times during Ramadan. Its not fun.

Spiritual development isn't supposed to be fun.