[EnsconcedDeity]

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Probably one of the best documentaries of seen in a while, very informative. If you have or you know someone diagnosed with a mental disorder this is something you have to see.

Thoughts?

[Nemesis]

Complete bullshit. Virtually everything on this site is fear-mongered nonsense. Either that, or it's an Onion-like parody site.

[EnsconcedDeity]

The video is about an hour long, I posted this 40 minutes ago and you commented 10 minutes later. So either you skimmed through it or didn't watch it all. Why is it BS? I'd like to know. It demands fact and logic over pure theory, I don't see how the video is bs.

[mosfet]

Of course they are theoretical. They need a documentary for such silly assumption?

[Still Standing]

From
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We live in a society that is perfectionistic in its expectations and intolerant of what were previously considered to be normal and expectable distress and individual difference. What was once accepted as the aches and pains of everyday life is now frequently labeled a mental disorder and treated with a pill. Eccentrics who would have been accepted on their own terms are now labeled as sick (with Apergers) and in need of therapeutic intervention. Mental disorder labels can provide cover for societal problems. Criminal behavior has been medicalized (eg, rape as a psychiatric disorder) because prison sentences are too short and such labeling allows for indefinite psychiatric commitment.

But overdiagnosis of a disorder doesn't mean that the disorder doesn't exist at all. For example, a person who is grieving the death of a loved one or trying to get over a recent relationship breakup might not have depression, but that doesn't mean there aren't any people out there who are feeling helpless and hopeless for no specific reason and seriously considering suicide.

[Phaze228]

Yes, until they become mental illness.

[gestalt]

While all mental illness is measured by individual behavior spectrums, overall when something is "diagnosable" means that the behavior(s) is to be considered "abnormal."

Many mental health disorders have a physical ailment component in the brain. On the other hand I believe people can influence their genetic expression by the power of thought as well.

[TheStranger]

Many mental disorders have theoretical causes.

[BlSH0P]

well, first you have to understand what a mental disorder is. Technically they are theoretical, but just because they are doesn't mean they are caused strictly from the fault of the victim, or are curable just through "positive" thinking. A mental "disorder" is simply a behavior that the rest of society deems "unproductive, dangerous, or damaging to the victim". The fact that society must arbitrarily decide what is and isnt mentally healthy makes the whole idea theoretical. But math and science are very theoretical, that doesnt mean they aren't real. Gravity and Evolution are both "theories". But still exist and affect us every day.

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by BlSH0P To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	A mental "disorder" is simply a behavior that the rest of society deems "unproductive, dangerous, or damaging to the victim". The fact that society must arbitrarily decide what is and isnt mentally healthy makes the whole idea theoretical.

"Disordered" people aren't necessarily clueless about their "disorder" and they often don't need society to tell them that there's something wrong with them. They might see for themselves that what they are doing is "unproductive, dangerous or damaging" and seek help on their own. Theoretical, really?

[thod]

A counter example being something like schizoid. Such people are not delusional, their assessments of reality are normal. They are extreme loners not because they are misanthropist, but because they just don't care about social interaction. If you have no desire to chat, then you will not miss it. There are many jobs which involve working alone for which they are ideally suited. Since such people do not regard themselves as ill, they don't seek treatment. If you read DSM, you will end up thinking you have lots of conditions.

It seems to me that mental disorders are defined by deviation from the norm and not on some absolute scale. Thus the sane man in a world of the insane would be considered the insane one. What is needed is a definition of what a healthy mind is rather than all this talk of deviations.

[Anza]

"The Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR) is an advocacy group established in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and psychiatrist Thomas Szasz."

[Thinktress]

	Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It seems to me that mental disorders are defined by deviation from the norm and not on some absolute scale.

Well, duh. PHYSICAL disorders are defined by deviation from the norm. Absolute scale... Please. It's out drinking coffee somewhere with absolute truth.

[Chopstinky]

	Originally Posted by Anza To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	"The Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR) is an advocacy group established in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and psychiatrist Thomas Szasz."

And that says about all that needs to be said about the people behind said video.

[sunitaishot]

Psychiatry is a false discipline.

It is intended to punish sufferers, and has no benevolent centre.

---------- Post added 08-07-2012 at 08:27 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Complete bullshit. Virtually everything on this site is fear-mongered nonsense. Either that, or it's an Onion-like parody site.

Then prove the detractors wrong?

[TheWanderer]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	---------- Post added 08-07-2012 at 08:27 AM ---------- Then prove the detractors wrong?

Your arguments have been sliced apart so many times your only defence is saying "its subjective" until you can goad people into breaking the rules and having someone come in and save you from the terrible insults a 34 year old cannot seem to endure.

As we have proven you wrong repetitively, leaving you with only the same argument hashed out ad nausem, how about you prove US wrong?

[sunitaishot]

which arguments are these?

[TheWanderer]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	which arguments are these?

Look through pretty much every single thread you have made. It always comes down to people giving a long list of reasons and data about why you are wrong, and you having absoutly nothing in response except "its subjective". Or "Pyshtrists are evil and your counterargument to that is invalid because I'm saying its subjective", ignoring the fact your ridiculously extremist and ill supported views are even more subjective.

[sunitaishot]

lol.. I don't care.

I will continue to voice my displeasure of psychiatry, and campaign for its total and categorical abolition.

[TheWanderer]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	lol.. I don't care. I will continue to voice my displeasure of psychiatry, and campaign for its total and categorical abolition.

Ok, but do you think you will persude anyone when you have no arguments to speak of? Do you think you will achieve anything in a debate by declaring everything subjective? Is it really your goal to inform people or are you trying to do something else?

[sunitaishot]

I will campaign against psychiatry, it's an evil practice.

---------- Post added 08-07-2012 at 12:51 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Still Standing To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	"Disordered" people aren't necessarily clueless about their "disorder" and they often don't need society to tell them that there's something wrong with them. They might see for themselves that what they are doing is "unproductive, dangerous or damaging" and seek help on their own. Theoretical, really?

No, most mental health professionals use the term "it's an inexact science" so justify their actions.

It doesn't matter if no firm scientific process is used, it's an inexact science. No matter if personal opinions can be used in place of reasoned judgments, it's an inexact science.

---------- Post added 08-07-2012 at 12:54 PM ----------

Originally Posted by BlSH0P To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

well, first you have to understand what a mental disorder is. Technically they are theoretical, but just because they are doesn't mean they are caused strictly from the fault of the victim, or are curable just through "positive" thinking. A mental "disorder" is simply a behavior that the rest of society deems "unproductive, dangerous, or damaging to the victim". The fact that society must arbitrarily decide what is and isnt mentally healthy makes the whole idea theoretical. But math and science are very theoretical, that doesnt mean they aren't real. Gravity and Evolution are both "theories". But still exist and affect us every day.

lol... you present weak analogies.

Gravity can be measured and studied. as can evolution, and certainly mathematics and science.

The fact you use "society" as your benchmark is also telling. Isn't psychiatry part of the Western medical tradition, and hence uses science as its base? If somebody has a myocardial infarction, is this determined via "society" or through scientific means?

---------- Post added 08-07-2012 at 12:58 PM ----------

Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

A counter example being something like schizoid. Such people are not delusional, their assessments of reality are normal. They are extreme loners not because they are misanthropist, but because they just don't care about social interaction. If you have no desire to chat, then you will not miss it. There are many jobs which involve working alone for which they are ideally suited. Since such people do not regard themselves as ill, they don't seek treatment. If you read DSM, you will end up thinking you have lots of conditions. It seems to me that mental disorders are defined by deviation from the norm and not on some absolute scale. Thus the sane man in a world of the insane would be considered the insane one. What is needed is a definition of what a healthy mind is rather than all this talk of deviations.

lol.. normalcy is a wholly subjective term.

Psychiatry is frankly stuck in 19th century moral reasoning. it seems to think that anything that doesn't conform to some conservative/uptight norm is "bad", when modern Western society doesn't espouse such rigidity in public morality again.

I honestly believe psychiatrists think we live in 1952, and not 2012. they don't seem able to get contemporary society's norms, beliefs, edicts and morals. isn't somebody who cannot conceive social norms mentally ill? ha, the irony!!

[mieu]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	lol.. I don't care. I will continue to voice my displeasure of psychiatry, and campaign for its total and categorical abolition.

I must have missed where you addressed this, but can you give a brief description of what should be done about individuals who say, believe that they're being pursued by beings that don't exist and are driven to do harm to other people?

This is assuming psychiatry is abolished.

[sunitaishot]

	Originally Posted by mieu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I must have missed where you addressed this, but can you give a brief description of what should be done about individuals who say, believe that they're being pursued by beings that don't exist and are driven to do harm to other people? This is assuming psychiatry is abolished.

Incarcerate them. it's simple, this is why essentially jails exist, to protect society.

---------- Post added 08-07-2012 at 01:09 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Thinktress To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well, duh. PHYSICAL disorders are defined by deviation from the norm. Absolute scale... Please. It's out drinking coffee somewhere with absolute truth.

lol.. oh come on.

having a rash is an abnormality by definition. but psychiatry seeks to punish people who step outside some rigid norm of conduct and behaviour. as said, they're stuck in 19th century thinking.

Seeing as the Olympics is in the UK this year, they probably thought Queen Victoria opened the Games, along with her PM Gladstone. And that guy from the UK colony Jamaica won the 100m lol... (it would not surprise if they thought this, the bunch of dopes).

---------- Post added 08-07-2012 at 01:21 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Complete bullshit. Virtually everything on this site is fear-mongered nonsense. Either that, or it's an Onion-like parody site.

butthurt, since you're a mental health professional?

---------- Post added 08-07-2012 at 01:23 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Still Standing To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

From To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. But overdiagnosis of a disorder doesn't mean that the disorder doesn't exist at all. For example, a person who is grieving the death of a loved one or trying to get over a recent relationship breakup might not have depression, but that doesn't mean there aren't any people out there who are feeling helpless and hopeless for no specific reason and seriously considering suicide.

because mental illness isn't based on moods or "feeling", it's based on adherence to norms and rigidity.

[TheGreatSwagsby]

Psychological disorders are theortetical as long as neurology is underdeveloped. Just like the flu was theoretical 500 years ago, they could see the effects but not the cause. It makes the disease no less real to the person experiencing it.

[sunitaishot]

	Originally Posted by TheGreatSwagsby To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Psychological disorders are theortetical as long as neurology is underdeveloped. Just like the flu was theoretical 500 years ago, they could see the effects but not the cause. It makes the disease no less real to the person experiencing it.

which disease is this? Oh, not acting "normally"?