[vampyroteuthis]

	Originally Posted by OP
	- wish they are more confident - feel the need to dumb down languages for the masses.

At the risk of walking right into the stereotype box, kicking the door shut behind me, and nailing my hand to the cardboard wall, I'll say these confessions are imprecise.

Confidence: in what? If we're talking about image manipulation, typically not a forte or rather, not a preoccupation. I like to think we could be good at it if we tried but who knows? If we're talking about approaching others and communicating, I'd say we're diffident, rather than unconfident. Wait for a welcome, though it needn't be personal. Some threads shout hello.

Language: no dumbing down, I don't think. But, as others have said, attempts at clarity. The trouble is that everything is connected to everything else, conceptually. Argument structures repeat. I'm not always sure what information I need to provide to be legible and what may seem tangential without the explication of the connection. We are Fe users, though, and probably more likely than INTJs to adjust our lexicons based on past problems or punishments.

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I see a lot of the same issues in this thread as in the INTJ posturing threads. Why must there be one way of thinking? Why can't Ps and Js combine strengths, rather than 'musts' my way? Imagine the possibilities of breadth and depth.

Of course there isn't. I don't know. Some of the answers here have surprised me. What's the obstacle?

[Merle]

Originally Posted by HackerX To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I have a distinct anxiety that arises from new social situations where one doesn't know the correct behaviours. - I don't like visiting new restaurants with unknown menus where I might be stuck not knowing what to order or how to get out of the situation. (This used to be more of a problem when I didn't wear my glasses and couldn't read the menus until I was standing right at the counter!) - I hate phones. Specifically, I hate making phone calls (I don't mind being called). It stems from having to initiate the expect phone behaviour and not having any buffer like an email would give you or the non verbal cues that speaking in person would give (which I have no problems with).

OH YES. God I hate talking on the phone. I had a phone interview for a summer job a month or so ago... wow, horribly awkward. I find it hard being a female that hates talking on the phone because that's how so many women communicate - I'd be happy to talk for hours with my friends in person, but I can't do it over the phone and I feel like that lessens the depth of our relationship somehow (because they can talk to other friends on the phone, just not me).

---------- Post added 08-03-2012 at 04:24 PM ----------

Originally Posted by vampyroteuthis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

At the risk of walking right into the stereotype box, kicking the door shut behind me, and nailing my hand to the cardboard wall, I'll say these confessions are imprecise. Confidence: in what? If we're talking about image manipulation, typically not a forte or rather, not a preoccupation. I like to think we could be good at it if we tried but who knows? If we're talking about approaching others and communicating, I'd say we're diffident, rather than unconfident. Wait for a welcome, though it needn't be personal. Some threads shout hello.

Indeed, 'diffident' is a good word. I have a hard time explaining to my ENFP sister that it is not that I lack confidence, or that I don't like people or anything like that but that my brain just does not prompt me to speak. It's totally natural for her to dive deep into a conversation with other people, while I just don't think to assert myself in that way. I'll wait for direct invitation to speak, otherwise it does not bother me to not speak at all. I also am useless at carrying-on a conversation, I just do not think to ask questions.. although I am training myself to remember, (which is perhaps more awkward than just being silent since it means a moment of silence, brain cogs, lightbulb! - 'oh... so what did you think of....?)

[superflax]

Omg INTPs just make me
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I'm in awe!

[vampyroteuthis]

Originally Posted by Merle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Indeed, 'diffident' is a good word. I have a hard time explaining to my ENFP sister that it is not that I lack confidence, or that I don't like people or anything like that but that my brain just does not prompt me to speak. It's totally natural for her to dive deep into a conversation with other people, while I just don't think to assert myself in that way. I'll wait for direct invitation to speak, otherwise it does not bother me to not speak at all. I also am useless at carrying-on a conversation, I just do not think to ask questions.. although I am training myself to remember, (which is perhaps more awkward than just being silent since it means a moment of silence, brain cogs, lightbulb! - 'oh... so what did you think of....?)

"My brain does not prompt me to speak." Yes, same, barring situations in which I'm in a hostess-like position, in which case I'm more active about it. I can carry on a conversation when silences and wandering are allowed -- it's like air to me and I can even get longwinded then -- but not so much when linearity is expected. Also certain interactions can feel like social games and following those scripts, exhausting.

I think the phone problem ties in. Can convey information or ramble, but the stand-and-deliver patter of the regular telephone two-step many seem to expect... well, good luck.
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[babsa]

I don't do well in the communication department. I always try to phrase what i am thinking perfectly, which often means that i stumble on my words, start over, or just trail off because i just think, "to hell with it..." For some reason it has always been much easier to put what i want to say in text rather than IRL. Well, it is not really a mystery, i started talking later than average, and even than i hardly spoke, and when i spoke i had a speech impediment. What i really want to say, is that confidence is not something i lack, and i think that many people in here are falsely identifying what they feel is a lack of confidence. Some people identify it as a lack of confidence, i call it being realistic. One observation i have made, is that J's pack-mind is a indomitable beast. One on one, i can be very charming to a J, but when there are multiple Js they tend to pick apart my INTP qualities. It is a phenomena that i have experienced throughout my whole life.

[TheStranger]

Reflecting on my way of thinking, I'm wondering if there is a permanent exclusion there. I wish others would ponder on the nuances of thinking itself more, though I have done so, there has been little return for my efforts.

I'd rather have a broad, in-depth umbrella thinking style than anything. I see how many lack it, and how they suffer for it. I see how my own life used to be defined by narrow thoughts.

[Async]

From the replies, I can see there are multiple reasons why INTPs would feel the need to dumb down to the masses. Here is an example where I caught myself did the dumb down talk over the weekend.

I was trying to explain to a friend A about the connections that I have with my INTP irl friend. After few attempts, friend A just didn't get the connections part so I threw up my hand (figuratively) and said well, "talking to him is like talking to a male version of me".

Obviously to anyone who is on this forum, that is an extreme inaccurate statement. We know darn well that intj female <> intp male; by a loooong shot. But to get my point across to friend A, I had to resort to using a crude explanation.