[Tactical Panda]

What would it mean, and what would you do, INTJs?

Share your thoughts.

[Fujimoto]

They wouldn't actually do anything, except speculate about their condition and spend a couple of hours browsing Wikipedia/Google and exploring every tangent.

[scorpiomover]

From what I've read on Personality Junkie, that's exactly what happens to INTJs when they mature. They become much more easy-going. They get on much better with others, and so they become much more productive within society, and thus, even for themselves, as we live in a society where we have to deal with and work with others all the time. They have a much better time in relationships. Much easier to get on with friends. Overall, they have a much better life, in all ways.

Personality Junkie also points out that when it comes to INTPs, as they mature, they become much more J-ish, and even are mistaken for INTJs. They benefit from becoming more J-ish.

It seems to me, that the problems that INTJs suffer from, and the problems that INTPs suffer from, are a result of being TOO J, or TOO P.

Extremes are generally harmful. Moderation seems to be a key for success in life.

[LifesEcstasy]

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What would it mean, and what would you do, INTJs? Share your thoughts.

I probably would still be with some of the lame-arse individuals I used to call my boyfriends. I can't seem to find a single redeeming feature about being P, but I am a strongly biased J so go figure. My husband is P and I still can't find an example of how that helps him, I just see a lot of indecisiveness and pfaffing about that could be resolved with a good dose of J.

[Async]

As I get older:
- I find myself more comfortable with open ended situations, especially with theoretical discussions.
- I am also taking on more of the view "live and let live". Accept that there will always be mediocre in this world, including myself. Gasps, less judgmental?
- I don't keep things organized for the sake of organizing. Now I figure out why certain things need organization and I make sure that they get organized. Other things can be a mess if it doesn't impact how I live.
- Not everything on the list needed to be checked off.
- Not everything needed to be planned. Working on enjoy more of the process to get to the end point.
- More comfortable with the idea of mind map of information, rather than hierarchy way of presenting information.

So I guess, I am getting more P. Not a bad thing, at all, in my view.

[Distance]

Originally Posted by scorpiomover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

From what I've read on Personality Junkie, that's exactly what happens to INTJs when they mature. They become much more easy-going. They get on much better with others, and so they become much more productive within society, and thus, even for themselves, as we live in a society where we have to deal with and work with others all the time. They have a much better time in relationships. Much easier to get on with friends. Overall, they have a much better life, in all ways. Personality Junkie also points out that when it comes to INTPs, as they mature, they become much more J-ish, and even are mistaken for INTJs. They benefit from becoming more J-ish. It seems to me, that the problems that INTJs suffer from, and the problems that INTPs suffer from, are a result of being TOO J, or TOO P. Extremes are generally harmful. Moderation seems to be a key for success in life.

Older INTJs tap into their Se more effectively, so they're less judgey and more perceiving. Noticed the older ones come across more ENTJ or ISTJ, reliant on underlying personality to begin with.

[Tactical Panda]

Glean the benefits from bring P, distill those things and develop them, and then find out how to become a J again ASAP.

[LiveNotOnEvil]

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Glean the benefits from bring P, distill those things and develop them, and then find out how to become a J again ASAP.

Already done.

[24601]

Being less J for me has made me less rigid about the "right" way... The self-development has brought about a positive change. I won't argue for hours. It's gone from windy explanations to, "Deal with it," to learning the use of therapeutic silence and tolerance, and an attempt to understand.

It's made me seem more extroverted, care more about people, and form more loving connections. I'm still a J, and that simplicity in decision can be useful. I'm proud of it, but I'm glad to be growing and changing.

[Tactical Panda]

	Originally Posted by LiveNotOnEvil To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Already done.

I thought about it more today. The idea of an INTJ acting like a P sort of makes me uncomfortable.

Analysis as a way of living seems like a cold chess game of life hidden behind an easy mask.

If way of life is prioritized before everything else... it seems like a cancerous temptation for an INTJ to wade into.

[Ender]

I imagine that INTJs being more P would involve falling prey to the whims of their inferior functions - this being the case while their main functions still stayed dominant, overall.

I think it'd create actions of a paradoxical nature, where one is behaving on action and reaction, instead of thought and perception. Not unlike the behavior of one experiencing stress, perhaps.

I don't know. My Te is falling asleep right now, so I'm a little lacking in explanation about what I mean. Interpret the above as you will.

[scorpiomover]

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I thought about it more today. The idea of an INTJ acting like a P sort of makes me uncomfortable. Analysis as a way of living seems like a cold chess game of life hidden behind an easy mask. If way of life is prioritized before everything else... it seems like a cancerous temptation for an INTJ to wade into.

I understand that it could make one uncomfortable to be more P-ish. Then one lives in more doubt, and one is showing more vulnerability, and less of an impression of competence.

However, I've seen an INTJ female here, write that since she embraced the idea of admitting she was wrong some of the time, it made her life a LOT easier. So it seems that it does work for some.

[Autoptic]

Let's get dangerous. Err...more reckless and aggressive, less efficient and fucks given. Imagine inverting the INTJ into a warped kind of ESFP.

[babsa]

	Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I probably would still be with some of the lame-arse individuals I used to call my boyfriends. I can't seem to find a single redeeming feature about being P, but I am a strongly biased J so go figure. My husband is P and I still can't find an example of how that helps him, I just see a lot of indecisiveness and pfaffing about that could be resolved with a good dose of J.

You can chalk up modesty for P...

[Distance]

Hypothesis:

Self-actualisation for Js means becoming more P. In our need for conclusiveness, we limit our minds in self-inflicted constructions.

Self-actualisation for Ps means becoming more J. In their lack of construct, shit doesn't get done where there's no centering point, insufficient core grounding to leap off from.

[alrightgame]

I would be incredible self-centered without the self-awareness and completely scattered brained. I know an INTP that has to take the strongest dose of Adderall. The only reason he can get home is because the path looks more familiar then the rest of his memory.

[SilasGTBronte]

	Originally Posted by Fujimoto To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	They wouldn't actually do anything, except speculate about their condition and spend a couple of hours browsing Wikipedia/Google and exploring every tangent.

That's exactly what I often do! I tend to be somewhere between INTJ and INTP rather than just INTJ.

[Tactical Panda]

	Originally Posted by scorpiomover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I understand that it could make one uncomfortable to be more P-ish. Then one lives in more doubt, and one is showing more vulnerability, and less of an impression of competence. However, I've seen an INTJ female here, write that since she embraced the idea of admitting she was wrong some of the time, it made her life a LOT easier. So it seems that it does work for some.

That isn't the aspect of P that worries me. It is the dark side of it.

[Distance]

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That isn't the aspect of P that worries me. It is the dark side of it.

Can't J control its own P?

[anticlimatic]

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That isn't the aspect of P that worries me. It is the dark side of it.

Once you've established a good cognitive map of your basement, it's really not that bad in the dark...
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[scorpiomover]

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That isn't the aspect of P that worries me. It is the dark side of it.

What? So you're worried about the disadvantages of being even a little bit P?

Don't you think that Ps worry about the disadvantages of J-ness?

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hypothesis: Self-actualisation for Js means becoming more P. In our need for conclusiveness, we limit our minds in self-inflicted constructions. Self-actualisation for Ps means becoming more J. In their lack of construct, shit doesn't get done where there's no centering point, insufficient core grounding to leap off from.

Looking at the functions, I dunno, as they oscillate from "J" to "P" and the attitudes switch as well...

For example, an INTJ child may have little Te developed and may be rather passive in appearance. Development of Te may make him "J-er". Development of Fi might well make him appear less "J" due to greater consideration of subjective needs/wants of others and himself. Development of Se would make him appear less rigid, less "J."

So my hypothesis, in which I have little faith, is that for an INTJ, "peak-J-ness" should occur in early-mid adulthood.

This is not true for an ENTJ, for whom the peak should be earlier...

[Tactical Panda]

	Originally Posted by scorpiomover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What? So you're worried about the disadvantages of being even a little bit P? Don't you think that Ps worry about the disadvantages of J-ness?

I am not inclined to live out my life as some of the Ps do.

If I thought most Ps knew anything ultimately accurate about Js I have underestimated them. But I am open to them surprising me, as long as it doesn't waste my time. If they get it right, good for them and good for me as I learn that much more.

But imaginings and suspicions and insecurities and the type apologetics and spins and half pictures? From my experience the opinion of a P becomes more appealing with real evidence and sound, full bodied reasoning that is thoughtful of BOTH sides of the story in good faith.

Which has happened. Some Ps have done well. Which leaves the rest seemingly without excuse.

[scorpiomover]

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I am not inclined to live out my life as some of the Ps do.

What lifestyles are you referring to? Who exactly is asking you to live such lifestyles?

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If I thought most Ps knew anything ultimately accurate about Js I have underestimated them. But I am open to them surprising me, as long as it doesn't waste my time. If they get it right, good for them and good for me as I learn that much more.

What is your evidence that most Ps do not know anything ultimately accurate about Js?

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But imaginings and suspicions and insecurities and the type apologetics and spins and half pictures?

So you think that Ps ideas are all totally nothing to do with reality? Do you think that all Ps are suspicious of everyone? Do you think this of ENFPs? Do you think that all Js have no insecurities? Do you think that all Ps are extremely insecure? Have you evidence of this confirmed from professionals in the field of mental health? Do you think that Ps are always trying to justify incompetencies? Do you think that the ENTJ employers who employ ENTPs, and consider them extremely competent, are morons? Do you think that the INTJs who work with INTPs and are in awe of their intelligence and productivity, are equally stupid? Do you think that INTPs are masters of PR? If so, have you notified the marketing and advertising industry? Do you think that NPs only consider half the picture, while SJs consider the whole picture?

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	From my experience the opinion of a P becomes more appealing with real evidence and sound, full bodied reasoning that is thoughtful of BOTH sides of the story in good faith.

Everyone feels that way about INTJs as well. So far, I am hearing a lot of claims of experience, but not much in the way of real evidence, or sound, full bodies reasoning, and certainly not that which tells BOTH sides of the story, the P's side, as well as the J's side, and certainly not that of all the INTJs here who are married to Ps, and very, very happily too, for many years.

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Which has happened. Some Ps have done well. Which leaves the rest seemingly without excuse.

So you decide whether someone has an excuse, by whether they have done well? If they have done well, then why do they need an excuse? If those who have done well, do not need an excuse, and the rest do not seemingly have any excuse, then why mention an excuse at all? Why not just say that if someone has "done well", then they have done well, and the rest have not? What exactly is it that you are implying, but not stating, by "without excuse"?

[Distance]

Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Looking at the functions, I dunno, as they oscillate from "J" to "P" and the attitudes switch as well... For example, an INTJ child may have little Te developed and may be rather passive in appearance. Development of Te may make him "J-er". Development of Fi might well make him appear less "J" due to greater consideration of subjective needs/wants of others and himself. Development of Se would make him appear less rigid, less "J." So my hypothesis, in which I have little faith, is that for an INTJ, "peak-J-ness" should occur in early-mid adulthood. This is not true for an ENTJ, for whom the peak should be earlier...

Even when functions fully develop, which tracks to the inferior developing somewhere between mid-thirties to fifties, this isn't the entirety of self-actualisation. It's a big world out there with so much to learn, attempt to understand and experience, that self-actualisation never ends.

J helps us to accomplish. Then the next step is realising that what you perceived as accomplishments at one time, become pretty meaningless over time.