[1superkawaii]

My mom is an ESFP. I can't even be in the same room with her without getting frustrated. It's one of those rare times I show emotions and I walk around angry the whole time she visits. I would like to choke every one of them.

[cuziamthecaptai]

If you're looking for a book on relating to other types at work there's
"type talk at work" by Kroeger, Thuesen, and rutledge

There's a guy who lives right near me so we interact. He's ESFP but oddly enough doesn't have a ton of friends--- spends a lot of time with his INFJ girlfriend.

Three things make our relationship work:
1-- he's a social chamelion-- so he's able to shift to passive and quiet when I'm around
2-- we're both technology obsessed-- through for very different reasons. He's SP-- so technology for him is about technique-- getting better and better at his art form (making trance dance music like daft punk). Technology for me (as with other NT's) is about making things more efficient. So when he tries to show me the latest feature of his ableton hardware/software at least I know where he's coming from.
3-- mutual respect/appreciation -- he calls upon me to write something or help him edit something he's writing (usually these are one and the same). He prides himself on always being prepared for an emergency.

Your comment

	so. your comment was completely unhelpful.

does make me wonder. I understand exactly where you're coming from with your work mate but internalizing and making harsh judgments about other types (or comments on an bbs) may just be maladaptive given the preponderance of SP's and SJ's out there. Might developing your diplomatic skills better serve you as you bide your time?

[Leeuwer]

Originally Posted by Sforza To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Assuming you still want to keep things civil afterwards, you could try explaining the problems to her directly but you have to say it in such a way that she won't think you're angry or that you dislike her because then it'll be like speaking with a wall. For example, start it off with, "It would be really helpful to me if you could give me more information so I can complete my work quickly. (Then discuss the particulars, but don't discuss what in particular she did wrong.)" With that said, I'm in a long term relationship with an ESFP but if I had to work with her I'd probably go insane in a few weeks.

My current girlfriend is also an ESFP.

How do you deal with her "superficiality"?

I often feel as if I am too focused on deeper meaning, while she does not really care about that.

Anyone else who wants to offer comments on the above, please do!
It really bothers me.
It often feels like she is extremely selfish and indifferent to anything but "excitement".

[Anemoi]

	Originally Posted by Leeuwer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I often feel as if I am too focused on deeper meaning, while she does not really care about that. It really bothers me. It often feels like she is extremely selfish and indifferent to anything but "excitement".

It won't end, and yes, it is annoying (at least for me).
You can talk it out and try to find some balance.

I have a friend like that and it was cantankerous. I finally decided not to bring opinions since they are obsessed with authority/right-wrong (+thinking is a turmoil that should be avoided), or as you say, the obsession for excitement.

Every time I talk (with them) I try to say something funny, lighthearted, a joke or somebody else's anecdote. Saves me lots of angry, frustrated moments. I generally do not expect them to have a logical, calm argument with me (not that they have to, anyway).
---
I previously started this
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thread.

[Leeuwer]

Originally Posted by Anemoi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It won't end, and yes, it is annoying (at least for me). You can talk it out and try to find some balance. I have a friend like that and it was cantankerous. I finally decided not to bring opinions since they are obsessed with authority/right-wrong (+thinking is a turmoil that should be avoided), or as you say, the obsession for excitement. Every time I talk (with them) I try to say something funny, lighthearted, a joke or somebody else's anecdote. Saves me lots of angry, frustrated moments. I generally do not expect them to have a logical, calm argument with me (not that they have to, anyway). --- I previously started this To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. thread.

Thanks for that. I'll take it into account and try to calm myself ...

I try to stay light-hearted but she often finds my sarcasm too cynical and cruel, or simply does not get my perverted sense of humour(I am of the opinion that you either joke about EVERYTHING or NOTHING ... which avoids things like "You shouldn't joke about people with asthma, I have a cousin who has asthma and it's really bad and stuff.")

Holy cow, I admire your patience in that other thread ... I simply explode during times like these.

For example, sports nutrition has pretty much been an obsession of mine for 11 years. I can confidently say I am very knowledgeable on the subject, both in terms of theory and experience(not to toot my own horn, but if one needs stupid anecdotal evidence, they simply need to look at me). Now, I have no diploma which is in any which way related to nutrition, I hold degrees in Psychology and Linguistics/Literature, areas entirely different.

I usually AVOID the subject of nutrition though, because EVERYONE has an opinion on it based on "something they've read somewhere" and "everyone knows meat is bad for you, right???" and "my doctor said this and that and so it must be right!!"

During a dinner conversation one of her mother's friends asks me a question, to which I very politely answer ... but I avoid getting carried away since it is a controversial topic(whether or not fasting is healthy). Her mother(who is a nurse) disagrees, to which I calmly offer rational explanation ... her mother(arguably also an ESFP)disagrees, and the GF chimes in: "She studied to be a nurse and you are a linguist, so UMMM WHO IS RIGHT??"

I have to note that I am talking about adults here, people between the ages of 26-30, who have all completed a higher education. Frustration to the max.

I'll stop my complaining though, since I am beginning to feel like a teenager whining about his girlfriend too.

[Anemoi]

	Originally Posted by Leeuwer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Thanks for that. I'll take it into account and try to calm myself...

Welcome!

	Originally Posted by Leeuwer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I usually AVOID the subject of nutrition though, because EVERYONE has an opinion on it based on "something they've read somewhere" and "everyone knows meat is bad for you, right???" and "my doctor said this and that and so it must be right!!"

Same here. Once a woman said that her baby's blood pH was 95, but that she read somewhere that it's normal as long as it is under 98.
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and dare to challenge her!
I'm in the environmental field and it's the same. I tell my ESFP dad something related to an environmental problem and he immediately wants me to go to the radio to give an unsettling message to the masses. This has to be done with a provoking tone (like a religious bigot) that makes people talk and go on an environmental riot or something similar. They are obsessed with loudness and attention from everybody, they need to bee seen.

	Originally Posted by Leeuwer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	"She studied to be a nurse and you are a linguist, so UMMM WHO IS RIGHT??"

I'm very familiar with this tone.

	Originally Posted by Leeuwer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have to note that I am talking about adults here, people between the ages of 26-30, who have all completed a higher education. Frustration to the max.

I'm 23 and I have troubles having conversations with most people my age. Most of the times it feels like pointless chit chat: party, what will I wear today, the weekend and whatnot.

	Originally Posted by Leeuwer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'll stop my complaining though, since I am beginning to feel like a teenager whining about his girlfriend too.

I wouldn't say it's whining, you're just expressing frustration.

[Leeuwer]

Originally Posted by Anemoi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Welcome! Same here. Once a woman said that her baby's blood pH was 95, but that she read somewhere that it's normal as long as it is under 98. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. and dare to challenge her! I'm in the environmental field and it's the same. I tell my ESFP dad something related to an environmental problem and he immediately wants me to go to the radio to give an unsettling message to the masses. This has to be done with a provoking tone (like a religious bigot) that makes people talk and go on an environmental riot or something similar. They are obsessed with loudness and attention from everybody, they need to bee seen. I'm very familiar with this tone. I'm 23 and I have troubles having conversations with most people my age. Most of the times it feels like pointless chit chat: party, what will I wear today, the weekend and whatnot.

Well, expect this to last for ever and ever ... the solution for NTs is to work in an academic institution or be forever frustrated. Although I am an Extrovert, I have learned to shut up during a lot of conversations, to avoid "getting into it" and ending up frustrated with everyone's closed-mindedness and "stupidity"(hard not to see ignoring objective facts/research like stupidity)

In an academic context, at least most of the people will be equally geeky and they will not take offence when you tell them that making a conclusion based on a sample size of one is retarded. (eg: "Michael Phelps eats 12.000 calories from shitty food a day and he is lean so the kind of food you eat does not matter!!") (there are more things wrong with the previous statement than sample size but you catch my drift...)

	Originally Posted by Anemoi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I wouldn't say it's whining, you're just expressing frustration.

Thanks for your empathy ;-)

Well, you know how Conceptualizers can be when expressing "weakness".. but it feels good to do, every once in a while.

[MaybeThanh]

Originally Posted by Leeuwer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thanks for that. I'll take it into account and try to calm myself ... I try to stay light-hearted but she often finds my sarcasm too cynical and cruel, or simply does not get my perverted sense of humour(I am of the opinion that you either joke about EVERYTHING or NOTHING ... which avoids things like "You shouldn't joke about people with asthma, I have a cousin who has asthma and it's really bad and stuff.") Holy cow, I admire your patience in that other thread ... I simply explode during times like these. For example, sports nutrition has pretty much been an obsession of mine for 11 years. I can confidently say I am very knowledgeable on the subject, both in terms of theory and experience(not to toot my own horn, but if one needs stupid anecdotal evidence, they simply need to look at me). Now, I have no diploma which is in any which way related to nutrition, I hold degrees in Psychology and Linguistics/Literature, areas entirely different. I usually AVOID the subject of nutrition though, because EVERYONE has an opinion on it based on "something they've read somewhere" and "everyone knows meat is bad for you, right???" and "my doctor said this and that and so it must be right!!" During a dinner conversation one of her mother's friends asks me a question, to which I very politely answer ... but I avoid getting carried away since it is a controversial topic(whether or not fasting is healthy). Her mother(who is a nurse) disagrees, to which I calmly offer rational explanation ... her mother(arguably also an ESFP)disagrees, and the GF chimes in: "She studied to be a nurse and you are a linguist, so UMMM WHO IS RIGHT??" I have to note that I am talking about adults here, people between the ages of 26-30, who have all completed a higher education. Frustration to the max. I'll stop my complaining though, since I am beginning to feel like a teenager whining about his girlfriend too.

Hey, I know we're cool and all, but, you know, I had a course in psychology once and you should totally dump your girlfriend, dude, man.

--

I know what you're talking about. I'm very well adjusted to stupidity, as my family turned out to be a set of complete idiots, disregarding any arguments with a scientific foundation. As an introverted person with some unconventional opinions, I had to uphold a facade for the bigger part of my life in order to be "accepted", if you will, by the "normal" people.

I gave up on it. I'm confident enough to be who I am in public. Some people perceive it as arrogance, but it's a price I'm willing to pay if that's what it takes for me not to get frustrated over simple opinions. It also helps me to rationalize a lot of peoples behaviour, because I've seen both sides.

I'm probably one of the most open-minded people I know (coincidentally, I "know" a lot of SJ's). Something most people don't realize is that you don't need to go to an educational institution to reach a certain level of knowledge or competence. I believe I read somewhere that for NT's work is work and fun is work. If we'd take that into consideration, we'd only be able to conclude that our perception of fun is another's perception of work. In other words, we think it's fun to research and absorb information, while others might see it as a tedious, time-consuming thing to do.

I'm rambling again. What I'm trying to say is: out of experience I know that trying to rationalize your feelings is hard. I think the first thing you could try when you notice you're getting angry or annoyed is to just say to yourself that the feeling you're experiencing, in itself, is irrational. "Why am I becoming angry just because someone else is disagreeing with me? In the end, if I can't convince them that my viewpoint is right, then it's their loss". It could be considered arrogant, I know, but it keeps me from becoming enraged (an issue I couldn't resolve when I was a teenager until I realised I was an immature and whingey little bitch).

[ModernLit]

	Originally Posted by MaybeThanh To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I believe I read somewhere that for NT's work is work and fun is work. If we'd take that into consideration, we'd only be able to conclude that our perception of fun is another's perception of work. In other words, we think it's fun to research and absorb information, while others might see it as a tedious, time-consuming thing to do.

this really rings true for me! everyone's perspective is helping me think through opinions from other sides, and I will look up the books mentioned... i really do want to understand other people because usually i feel like i'm a lone alien trying to deal with a different species... so i do read psychology for fun, or science. because i'm a curious person, and fun can sometimes involve work. or at least something challenging. reading, and knowledge-gathering. being a culture sponge.

my ESFP coworker though, recently accused me of working on the wrong team because i don't take an interest in pop culture, and she started rambling about some TV show or soap opera and i zoned out completely. i don't think my not being interested in whatever is on TV right now or on the top 10 pop charts has any bearing on my ability to do my job efficiently, so that's when i get frustrated. did she really believe that? why say it? this is when i go off to process whatever it is she said and feel bad about myself because in the moment i have nothing to say to her because we are on such different wavelengths... i just cant... compute!

[MatsNorway]

Good read.
Slight ot.

What types could be easiest mistaken for being ESFPs?

[Sforza]

	Originally Posted by Leeuwer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My current girlfriend is also an ESFP. How do you deal with her "superficiality"? I often feel as if I am too focused on deeper meaning, while she does not really care about that. Anyone else who wants to offer comments on the above, please do! It really bothers me. It often feels like she is extremely selfish and indifferent to anything but "excitement".

I think it would be helpful if ESFP "superficiality" is seen through a different perspective. For the girlfriend, she tends to feel things a bit too much; something like giving present circumstances way too much attention at the expense of forgetting about related events that happened in the past, or paying no attention to forming contingency plans for the future. She explained this to me by saying that we could all die at any time so we might as well enjoy life.

We get into frequent disagreements but we've always tried to understand what the other person is thinking even if we don't think it makes sense. Before making major decisions that might affect the relationship we've always made it a point to consult or at least tell each other first.

We also deal with differences by giving each other breathing space when we need it. For example, I get my alone time when she's out with one of her many groups of friends or when she's out shopping. She also doesn't complain when I'm with my geeky friends, and I (try to) socialize with her friends every now and then. It's a relationship that needs a lot of compromise on both ends.

[ModernLit]

	Originally Posted by MatsNorway To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Good read. Slight ot. What types could be easiest mistaken for being ESFPs?

not sure. i can usually guess people's types because their desk and bookshelf organization will tell you if they are P or J, women tend to be feelers rather than thinkers most times (I'm being general, and knowing the person a bit helps distinguish whether they make decisions with their head or their heart or rush into things without much careful analysis, etc.--i'm realizing i know quite a not of F males, too), but i have actually thought people were E and they were I, but... since I am very I and when i see people really loud and extraverted it's hard for me to distinguish whether it's an act or how they really are--usually i take it for granted that i'm not being put on so i think that loud/talkative is who they are, and therefore E.

i can see INTJs being INTPs a bit, and there were a couple days when i thought i was an ISTJ, but... that's really off topic.

[Eleanorigby]

My new ESFP boss started two weeks ago and so far I can't connect with him on any level whatsoever. Which is strange because I usually can get along with most people, at least one-on-one, and can say I'm really good in finding things in common and building upon them.

Here I can't, no matter how hard I've been trying. No decision is final, can be revised in mid-implementation for no apparent reason other than "I have this new great idea". Any rational argument against his proposed plan or idea gets me a "You're naughty" remark and a smirk. He brushes off and flies from any tension or crisis. Very, very, VERY loud.

He has amazing people skills no doubt especially in large gatherings, something my previous studious bosses did not have... But this is nice to observe from a distance, working on day-to-day basis is beginning to drive me crazy. This is probably the only one person I've met professionally that I feel no compatibility with.

[ModernLit]

	Originally Posted by Eleanorigby To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My new ESFP boss started two weeks ago and so far I can't connect with him on any level whatsoever. Which is strange because I usually can get along with most people, at least one-on-one, and can say I'm really good in finding things in common and building upon them.

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yikes.
large gatherings? no thanks. people scare me. i really don't have a fullproof way to deal with people who are vastly different from me--and there are a lot of them out there. any tips? please pots them

[Smacknrat]

The 40 YO I knew was manipulative as hell. He wasn't all useless but certainly got the position out of good graces and contacts. Meaning, that the reputations of others at this global corporation were tied to his value. I'll let you extrapolate about what that meant about my cred. when I came onboard all fresh and eager and ready to conquer.

Why is that important? Because ESFPs are manipulative, as I mentioned. They'll use that talent just like we INTJs use our talents. They can and will badmouth others and you. They can and will be passive-aggressive at work. They can and will look for scapegoats. They know misdirection and misinformation. And they don't look too far into the future for the consequence or for a better team, product, or life like we INTJs do (and the ESFPs I knew never wanted to work towards a better life anyhow). In fact, the one I mentioned above seemed to actively try and STOP any endeavors and future planning. I gathered that it drives 'em nuts........

OTOH, their emotions sway pretty easily. But they're a dime a dozen. The only solution I had was to get out, but that was because the situation spiraled out of control to other situations.

I THINK I know of one person that is an ESFP and has borderline personality disorder. It's exhausting. Eventually we worked through our conflict (in a matter of an hour or two) and she's a bit hurt when I need my space. What I'm getting at is that ESFPs aren't afraid of conflict (really) and WILL bring a fight to your doorstep. Just be yourself and they'll want to be friends if you make that clear (and especially so if you make it clear they crossed a line with a comment).

Beware frienemies with ESFPs!!!!! You did say this was a work environment, beware bullying! To me it sounds like someone downplaying or misunderstanding your contributions (intentionally) to bolster their position. ESFPs are natural politicians... INTJs are just good advisors, but we need to eat, too.

[SilasGTBronte]

I actually worked with a very ESFP (specially on the E) co-worker and we actually got along well. She was very crass, but had a friendly attitude. Being sometimes such a drama queen, I used to cruelly tease her and throw light insults at her as well. She took it well most of the times, except when my insults may have gone too far.

I miss her.

[Eleanorigby]

	Originally Posted by Smacknrat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He wasn't all useless but certainly got the position out of good graces and contacts. Meaning, that the reputations of others at this global corporation were tied to his value.

I think this explains why a lot of people in top positions seem to be ESFPs - confidence, outward friendliness and the ability to shift the blame?

The very first work crisis with the new boss and two minutes into it we were already talking how it is/isn't my fault... I don't mind being reprimanded when necessary, but the crisis had to be resolved first, and the criticism of my handling of it could have been postponed I think?

I could see how this could be very divisive long-term... "Don't tell the boss something went wrong or he'll get mad" I think is not a healthy attitude in any organization, especially a small one. I wonder what your experience was Smack?

[Smacknrat]

Originally Posted by Eleanorigby To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think this explains why a lot of people in top positions seem to be ESFPs - confidence, outward friendliness and the ability to shift the blame? The very first work crisis with the new boss and two minutes into it we were already talking how it is/isn't my fault... I don't mind being reprimanded when necessary, but the crisis had to be resolved first, and the criticism of my handling of it could have been postponed I think? I could see how this could be very divisive long-term... "Don't tell the boss something went wrong or he'll get mad" I think is not a healthy attitude in any organization, especially a small one. I wonder what your experience was Smack?

Sorry to hear it, Eleanorigby. Thanks for sharing, too. I've been to a few companies. The small one was that way. The global corp was only different in that people could make an exit strategy. Currently, I'm back at a small company owned by a national bank and I get to see my two bosses routinely scrounge up business their way. At this size, they have their strengths and while I still feel I can be replaced (and I can get a paycheck elsewhere) I'm gathering that we're all too damn tired to fuss with each other anymore. =)

I had to think on this for a few days and basically the sum of my personal experiences and thoughts came to: How people EXPECT you to behave. Any violations of the expectations (and not HOW you achieve that expectation) and we have problems.

So the reflections I had about this came from two separate former friends:
1) People are basically bigger children and will behave as such (re: third grade experiments with blue eyes better than brown eyes.) and

2) We INTJs/(I) prefer truth with jokes, silliness, and humor with a mild jab but no real hateful intent unless someone claims me to be something I'm not. At one point I had a PhD friend try to convince me that speaking a certain way was "how dudes talk". Just wasn't my style really. But people pick up on that unwillingness to play along. The attitude to talk for the sake of talking ends spreading to other areas of life, for the less skilled, and even (for my current circumstance) the technical project I'm on. People think bullshiting is ok. Suddenly bullshiting important things are ok. Bullshitting is often a way to protect someone's own (in my opinion) unsubstantiated claim without any real fear of being rejected. I don't think INTJs are retarded in that sense. It's rude to let them know that your experience and understanding is different unless asked (even if this badmouthing is hurtful to others) and if you're generally quiet, people have already characterized your persona and defying that image that they expect and count on causes a great deal of grief.

That's a generalized experience. I'm working through it myself. I don't know if I'm the only INTJ hung up on 'truth', being just, and friendliness, but I hope others might relate. =)

So, maybe I'm getting wound up because MY expectations of how people should behave isn't being met. In return, OTHERS expectations of how my behavior should be isn't being met. I don't think a less toxic environment is a bad expectation... at minimum. I've given up technical merits, friendliness, and capability already.. ugh.

[ENFPwife2amathy]

I know an INTJ who married an ESFP.

I think it was after a horrible series of socialization missions. Which is why I don't recommend those for any INTJ. <3

[Moxiie]

There's also a chance that not every ESFP in the world operates in the ways that are articulated above......I've known some lovely, non-drama queen, very intelligent ESFP's in my life. People are different, even within types.

I always try to be cognizant of, and avoid, massively generalizing types based on my very subjective interpretation and limited interaction with them. e.g. I have gotten into very, very ugly altercations at work with two ESFJ's and one ESTJ. It would be very easy to paint all ESFJ's and ESTJ's into a tidy little "I don't like that type" box - and truly, I have to be thoughtful about not doing that, there's just too much variation within each type for me to feel ok about doing so, because similarly, I have had great interactions with other ESFJ's and ESTJ's in my life as well.

What I try to do is take type into account and compare and contrast that with what I know about them personally and come up with a way to work with them based on that.

[Smacknrat]

^ Just empathizing with the original poster it seems really. Us N's have a need to stick together sometimes. IN's even more so. HOW DARE YOU BE CONTRARY! No one is claiming a genocide should be committed, for example. Not that I'm all against it.

[Moxiie]

	Originally Posted by Smacknrat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	^ Just empathizing with the original poster it seems really. Us N's have a need to stick together sometimes. IN's even more so. HOW DARE YOU BE CONTRARY! No one is claiming a genocide should be committed, for example. Not that I'm all against it.

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I know if some IN's (the TJ's in particular) had their druthers, there would be a mass genocide of all feelers, specifically ESF's.....here's the catch though, if everyone was more like INTJ's, then how could y'all brag so much about being the 1%?
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I keed, I keed...but seriously, I think I make a cogent point there....

[Smacknrat]

Oh, the 1% claim is just the light at the end of the tunnel (now that we know that there is a tunnel, we're going to make the most of it). When the crowds thin (say when we make up more like 10% of the population), we'd stop being so moody all the time with so much awesome company.

I've already started writing a national anthem for it.

"Oh, INTJ is the awesome..."

[FeriaKaiser]

One thing I noticed is that when I thought I was INTJ, I was kind of extreme when I typed people. Like, I used to think everybody I met who was like not sad or whatever was esfp. If your boss got this job, they're probably not esfp. esfp's tend to be really disorganized because perceiving means you do things that YOU WANT to do, more impulsive, not so much what you feel WE NEED. Ozzy Osbourne is considered by some to be an esfp lol, and he was a drugged out impulsive rocker dude. listen to what she says, if it's usually something people oriented and about hwo she feels, she's a feeler, as in her thoughts revolve more around people and feelings rather than ideas and concepts, that's more thinking. sounds like she's a feeler. Especially if she watches reality tv and likes pop culture, that's kind of a feeling thing to do, observing people and all that, they like to connect or feel connected. If she's sensing, that means she's not as much about the big picture as she is about the small details. Sensers are more observant than analytical. Intuitive people have an easier time understanding abstract ideas; such as "all things are one". A sensing person would be more likely to take that sentence at face value and say "no they're not, because a doctor is not a financial advisor". are you sure she's not an enfp? i mean, she has an office job. an esfp would be more like "i like partying, i wanna be a rockstar, not a boring office person". an enfp would plan more and be like "i want to be happy....but I guess i gotta do this to get there. I might as well have fun while doing it, let's see...I like working with people and connecting while maintaining myself so...business/marketing".

---------- Post added 08-10-2012 at 07:23 AM ----------

what it seems like is that she wants you to do something, and she expects you to get it right away, but you don't. for certain people, social cues and things like that are more learned than instinctive. if you want to know something from her, just ask questions on what she needs done. or tell her why you didn't get what she meant. For example, I have an ISTP friend. he tells me he's sad that his friend can't take him camping. we both know that this guy moved out because he didn't get along with his family and his dad just had radiation therapy. so he tells me he's sad, I tell him, "well, I guess he moved out and everything so..." certain people would get this and say "yea that's true....". my friend is like "well, moving out doesn't mean he can't camp. they still live in the same city and are going to the same place". my istp friend makes it clear to me with little specific situations like this that he doesn't get what i'm saying, so I understand I have to be a little more specific, as an enf, I pick up on it and react accordingly. that's one method i can think of.....lol sorry if it's too much typing, i understand that may irritate you.

[Moxiie]

	Originally Posted by FeriaKaiser To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If your boss got this job, they're probably not esfp. esfp's tend to be really disorganized because perceiving means you do things that YOU WANT to do, more impulsive, not so much what you feel WE NEED.

I tend to agree with this, except for that I know two ESFP's who are in executive positions. Granted, they have to work harder because it's less natural for them. Actually I think what you describe above is more oriented towards Extroverted Feeling (we need) and Introverted Feeling (I need). Fe is more concerned with what others want and Fi is more concerned with what I want. Both ESFPs and ENFP's are Fi auxiliary types. By comparison, INTJ's are Fi tertiary types.

	Originally Posted by FeriaKaiser To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	if it's usually something people oriented and about hwo she feels, she's a feeler, as in her thoughts revolve more around people and feelings rather than ideas and concepts, that's more thinking. sounds like she's a feeler. Especially if she watches reality tv and likes pop culture, that's kind of a feeling thing to do, observing people and all that, they like to connect or feel connected.

I'm a feeler who equally splits my time around ideas and concepts as they relate to how people can carry them out. Also I LOATHE reality tv and pop culture.

	Originally Posted by FeriaKaiser To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If she's sensing, that means she's not as much about the big picture as she is about the small details. Sensers are more observant than analytical. Intuitive people have an easier time understanding abstract ideas; such as "all things are one". A sensing person would be more likely to take that sentence at face value and say "no they're not, because a doctor is not a financial advisor".

Too simplistic and over arching, sensors have the capacity to understand the abstract, but tend to ground themselves in what they can physically react to (Extroverted Sensing) or how things are always done (Introverted Sensing). It's a preference, not an ability which one simply doesn't have.

Originally Posted by FeriaKaiser To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

are you sure she's not an enfp? i mean, she has an office job. an esfp would be more like "i like partying, i wanna be a rockstar, not a boring office person". an enfp would plan more and be like "i want to be happy....but I guess i gotta do this to get there. I might as well have fun while doing it, let's see...I like working with people and connecting while maintaining myself so...business/marketing".

Again, too simplistic of a stereotype -IMO, if the OP cannot get along with the type and the OP is an INTJ, she's likely dealing with an Extroverted Sensor, there can be pretty good miscommunications between Sensors and Intuitives, esp in the case of an INTJ and ESFP as they are complete opposites insofar as their dominant function goes (Se/Ni)

Interestingly enough though, ESFP's and INTJ's share all functions just in different order of dominance

INTJ: Ni - Te - Fi - Se
ESFP: Se -Fi - Te - Ni

If she has to continue working with her I might suggest reading up on
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to get more insight to how their minds work.

I know I had to do that when I came face to face with an ESFJ and an ESTJ with whom I clashed. Didn't help me hate those individuals less, but did help me to understand the type more.