[Dru]

	Originally Posted by Mohammad To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think we are born with souls. And souls have emotions.

so, does a psychopath simply not have a soul?

[INTJRyan]

	Originally Posted by followthehippos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It has been argued and debated, not debunked. I think it is an important piece of information for both sides of the debate to understand, whatever their opinion may be.

Debunked as being persuasive for the pro-life side, yes. It's at best irrelevant, and at worst, evidence that the mother's consent is all the legal system considers when determining whether abortion or a punch in the stomach is murder. It's entirely consistent with a pro-choice position since the life of the fetus is the perogative of the mother, and punching a pregnant person in the stomach doesn't leave much room for her choice now does it?

[Mirian]

I'm pro-choice, and pro-contraception. Practical reasons - I think that choice has too many factors to be taken once and for all by a few for so many. And from what I observe around me, good info and good access to contraception work.

[Jenesis]

Female, not sexually active, pro choice

I wouldn't put myself in a position of having an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy to begin with so personally I'd choose to birth and raise my child. But I don't believe in legislating or forcing my ideals onto others where unnecessary. One reason in this context I do support abortion is because too many children are being born into poverty and terrible circumstances by no wrong of their own. They're being raised in atmospheres of violence, ignorance, and poverty to become part of a generational cycle where this will continue on unless 1) people become wise enough to always use effective contraception; or 2) avoid sex if one isn't prepared and able to raise a child in an environment that benefits it. If potential parents can't or won't do this, I support them having abortions, and stop bringing so many children into this world who are subjected to a cruel struggle, every day, and by no fault of their own.

[JustMel]

The only "always effective contraception" is abstinence. All other forms of birth control can and do fail.

[Dru]

	Originally Posted by JustMel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The only "always effective contraception" is abstinence. All other forms of birth control can and do fail.

christian folk believe that even that failed - once.

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by JustMel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The only "always effective contraception" is abstinence.

Unless you're a rape or incest victim who gets pregnant. There's still no control over that.

	All other forms of birth control can and do fail.

Yeah, happened to me twice on the pill.

As for the OP -- I'm pro-prevention, other than that, I don't touch this topic for any reason.

[JustMel]

	Originally Posted by Dru To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	christian folk believe that even that failed - once.

Good thing I don't believe that fairy tale then.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

	Originally Posted by Booko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Unless you're a rape or incest victim who gets pregnant. There's still no control over that.

True, but that should be common sense. No way to stop rape or incest so it wouldn't matter if they were or weren't on birth control.

	Originally Posted by Booko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yeah, happened to me twice on the pill. As for the OP -- I'm pro-prevention, other than that, I don't touch this topic for any reason.

Yes, me too only it was pill one time and pill and condom the second. My sister-in-law has seven children for six different types of birth control. Go figure.

[topquark]

	Originally Posted by JustMel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	True, but that should be common sense. No way to stop rape or incest so it wouldn't matter if they were or weren't on birth control.

Which is why we need unrestricted access to free and safe abortion.

[JustMel]

	Originally Posted by topquark To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Which is why we need unrestricted access to free and safe abortion.

No argument here. I've argued the entire thread and the many that have come before this one that abortion is a personal choice and should remain an option for any who would choose to take that route. I counsel girls/women pre and post adoption and pre and post abortion.

[Thinktress]

	Originally Posted by zergonipal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	we genuinely don't believe they are people, or deserving of any particular dignity. Possibly this is a false-logic mental self-justification in order to allow us to hold our pro-choice views, I don't know. I just know I think it.

I must respectfully disagree. I support a woman's right to choose to abort her fetus UNTIL that child is viable. After that time, I feel the baby has his/her own rights and that for all intents and purposes, life commences at viability.


I find it exceptionally annoying that we never speak of the fathers in these scenarios, as both are responsible

And I feel that until a child is viable, the mother's right to her own body should be the prevailing factor.

[nashburn8]

Well, there is a difference between a 2^3 cell embryo and a 8 1/2 month fetus.
I do not agree with abortion past the first term.

[akairo no kuma]

Pro-choice. 22-year-old fertile female.
Pro-life has just gotten more and more insane and irrational over the years. Now, in Arizona, I am legally pregnant up to two weeks before I actually become physically pregnant, whether or not I can actually become pregnant at that time. Given the will of right-wing lunatics, women could potentially be charged with murder simply for having a period. Isn't it the same thing as an early abortion, or contraception? That egg could have become a baby. The theory then becomes that women should be forced to carry every egg they possess to term, lest they kill a potential life. That's a lot of children. Where does it end? When do women get full rights as human beings? Clumps of cells, many of which may not even survive, are now being valued more highly than living, breathing, functioning people, who are being saddled with discomfort and responsibility that they may not want or be capable of handling. If the parents cannot care for the child, it falls to the government. Those children may suffer, and they will be forced to cause the hardship of others, whether it be their parents or taxpayers, simply for being born when they were not wanted. Inflicting that type of guilt on a child isn't something that I would ever want to do. There are already too many people in the world, and too few resources for them all, and yet the right-wing keeps wanting to force more and more procreation. No abortions, no contraception, save every life. Weaken the species, less for everyone. Eventually, soylent green, and yes folks, it IS people. The people who have starved to death because of too many new mouths to feed; the children who have died because their parents couldn't care for them properly.
And even disregarding all of that: I don't believe that anyone else has more right to my body than I do, including but not limited to a embryo/fetus. End of discussion.

[LiamN]

If you believe in God, and that God gave you 'free will'.. Then you should still be pro choice. Because, 'thou shall not judge'. And it's the person's choice, thus not your place to tell others how to live.

“We gotta come to some new ideas about life folks ok? I'm not being blase about abortion, it might be a real issue, it might not, doesn't matter to me. What matters is that if you believe in the sanctity of life then you believe it for life of all ages. That's what I hate about this child-worship syndrome going on. "Save the children! They're killing children! How many children were at Waco? They're killing children!" What does that mean? They reach a certain age and they're off your fucking love-list? Fuck your children, if that's the way you think then fuck you too. You either love all people of all ages or you shut the fuck up." -Bill Hicks

[RedN]

Yeah, I am all for it. A few months ago a friend's girl just had an abortion. And I think it was the best thing to do for them.

As for the extent of what I am comfortable with, I'll go with aborting a baby at ANY time, before it is 'born'.

[Monte314]

It's easy to be pro-choice when you are the one making the choices.

Why do they call it freedom of choice
when those most affected are given no voice?

[topquark]

	Originally Posted by Monte314 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's easy to be pro-choice when you are the one making the choices. Why do they call it freedom of choice when those most affected are given no voice?

Because a fetus doesn't have a voice, or any thoughts to put into words. You might as well ask why a tree doesn't get a voice in the debate over whether to chop it down.

[Seablue]

	Originally Posted by Monte314 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's easy to be pro-choice when you are the one making the choices.

Actually, I think that it's easier to be pro-choice when I'm not the one making the choice. It's only going to be difficult if I'm ever the one who has to make it.

[SirJamesIII]

A woman is the landlord of her body. She can evict all the tenants she wishes.

[LiamN]

Pro-life. No, more like anti-choice!

For the christian pro-lifers, shut your mouth! According to your fictional book you reference, God gave us FREE WILL. Let God, judge, put down your signs... And go adopt, an unwanted, unloved child. Put your money where your mouth is... Or shut it!

[Ananas]

I think it's great when you can actually choose whether to have a child or not. Nowadays we have the technique, so why not? I don't think about moral or ethic stuff. As long as the baby hasn't been born (or at least fully developed), I don't count them as a full human child.

Sometimes I wonder why people still are against stuff like this or euthanasia.

[LiamN]

	Originally Posted by Ananas To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think it's great when you can actually choose whether to have a child or not. Nowadays we have the technique, so why not? I don't think about moral or ethic stuff. As long as the baby hasn't been born (or at least fully developed), I don't count them as a full human child. Sometimes I wonder why people still are against stuff like this or euthanasia.

To quote one of the greats(from the early 90s)... "You're not a human being, till you're in my phone book!"