[Ericds84]

As I am now entertaining the possibility of going to grad school for a degree in economics, it appears the GRE will figure into my future. Given my historically cavalier attitude toward tests I am tempted to go in and wing it. From what I can see it tests basic reading/writing/reasoning aptitudes.

What bothers me is that even if you retake the test, your past scores stay with you. And the amount of test-prep materials in the marketplace makes me think twice--maybe there's something I'm missing, or do most people really need to practice these sorts of things to do well?

So for those who've taken the test, what can I expect and how much should I invest in preparing for it?

[minusmg]

The first time I took the GRE I went in without studying for it at all and I had stayed up drinking for most of the night before, and I did terribly. Even on the writing part of it, which I am exceptionally good at according to every professor I've ever had, I did terrible on. The fact is that the GRE isn't a test of anything appreciable, it is a test of how well you have studied for taking the GRE. It contains a lot of mathematics and vocabulary that are completely esoteric and useless to 99% of the academic world. I would highly recommend buying an up-to-date study guide and going through it.

Or do like I did, and go to a school which doesn't require GRE scores.

[Axion004]

Ironically my undergraduate major was in economics and I have no desire to continue on graduate study in economics(Albeit I do want to go to graduate school in a different discipline). First of all graduate study in economics is competitive especially if you are going for a phd(You need 780 + Quant and 600 + Verbal if not higher). I did fine on the quantitative section but the verbal section was beyond abysmal. But that is OK- I don't want to continue studying economics anymore.

Preparation for me was done for about 4.5 months one summer in which I only worked part time. I studied the quantitative part for about one week and the verbal for the rest of time. I memorized over 1,500 words and yet this did not matter because I still only scored 20 points higher when I took the real GRE exam(Awesome).

I don't know what you are reading- If you take the GRE then the retake replaces your old score(Or at least this that was what I read around 2 years ago). I think that if you are really bad at the verbal part(as I am) then mindlessly reading and wiriting note cards isn't going to improve your score. You are better off studying something of value and trying to get a perfect quant score. Some people pay for classes for the GRE- Although if you really want to do well in graduate school you should have more than enough motivation to study for the GRE on your own.

Also, please do have a plan of where you want to go to graduate school and what you want to do in graduate school as you take the GRE. I took the GRE around 2 years ago and I have still not applied to graduate school(Although I graduated from undergraduate study only six months ago).

	The fact is that the GRE isn't a test of anything appreciable, it is a test of how well you have studied for taking the GRE. It contains a lot of mathematics and vocabulary that are completely esoteric and useless to 99% of the academic world.

Not according to the admission committees at many top ranked schools who use the GRE as a filter for students with the same credentials. Ultimately from what I read research experience and/or publications are the most important although you certainly wouldn't want someone with a 500 quant score pursue a PhD in Computer Science. I wouldn't admit them.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Ericds84 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

As I am now entertaining the possibility of going to grad school for a degree in economics, it appears the GRE will figure into my future. Given my historically cavalier attitude toward tests I am tempted to go in and wing it. From what I can see it tests basic reading/writing/reasoning aptitudes. What bothers me is that even if you retake the test, your past scores stay with you. And the amount of test-prep materials in the marketplace makes me think twice--maybe there's something I'm missing, or do most people really need to practice these sorts of things to do well? So for those who've taken the test, what can I expect and how much should I invest in preparing for it?

I'm like you regarding any sort of test. All I did was get one of those study guide books with sample problems and a review of the material that might show up on the test and did fine. Didn't get as high of a score as I wanted but it was adequate for the school I applied to (I got in).

One thing, though. Take the pencil and paper test if they still offer it. I took the computer version and it was awful. It was difficult to skip back and forth between questions and was just distracting. When I test I never work on the questions sequentially. I seek out problems that are easy for me and do those first, then I backtrack. Doing that on the computer was annoying.

[Merle]

The most useful thing I found while preparing for the GRE was the free powerprep software ETS gives you from their website. Now that the formula of the test has changed, I don't know if they have changed the powerprep package to go along with it.... but, basically, the software was exactly what you would confront on the test, just as you would see it and interact with it. It's great for familiarising yourself with the test format and also for gauging your current level.

Nothing on the GRE is particularly difficult, the format of the test is what makes it hard. The math is very low-level ( and should really not present a problem for anyone who has even the tiniest amount of quantitative work at the university level); however, I found it hard to score well on (having not taken a math class since I was 16) because I just don't have the fluency with math to allow me to get the answers quickly enough, without working things out long ways etc.

Anyway, I believe the test has changed substantially since last year so it would perhaps be more useful to you to take a practice test, maybe with the free software, and see where you stand rather than use the experiences of others as a guide - since our experience may not be relevant to the new test.

---------- Post added 07-04-2011 at 11:56 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Axion004 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't know what you are reading- If you take the GRE then the retake replaces your old score(Or at least this that was what I read around 2 years ago).

If you take the GRE multiple times, the schools get ALL your scores but they have different rules as to which scores they will use. So, some will use only your last, some will average them, some will look at all of them etc etc - it's up to them to decide, but they do actually SEE all of them.

[minusmg]

	Originally Posted by Axion004 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Not according to the admission committees at many top ranked schools who use the GRE as a filter for students with the same credentials.

To put it bluntly, the admission committees at many top ranked schools can eat a dick. GRE scores are meaningless, and any intelligent human being in any academic position of power looking for good students will know that. My graduate supervisor was a regional figurehead in her work and she took me on as a student, knowing full well the (sometimes grievous) faults of my academic career, but also recognizing my personal potential.

[Malkavia]

Does anyone know how the GRE has changed? (or will change in August)

I've heard its supposed to be different but dont have any details. Will the old study tools be useful anymore?

[timewarpson]

I took it this past January and invested six weeks total preparation time. I studied part-time for four weeks while working and then for two weeks full-time while I was off for the holiday break. I used the Princeton Review’s “Cracking the GRE” and “Barron’s GRE.” After going through all the practice problems and exams in the books, I took the tests on the CDs and found that my scores were consistently lower than with the free ETS PowerPrep software. My PowerPrep scores turned out to be almost identical to my actual scores – so they had the best predictive value.

I had taken it in 2000 for a master’s program but needed to again because of the age of my scores. I’m a bit of an obscure word freak so I didn’t need as much prep for the verbal section; and spent almost no time preparing for the analytical writing section. Most of my time was dedicated to improving my overall agility on the math section. I increased both my verbal and quantitative scores and got into my intended doctoral program, so was pretty satisfied with the time invested and felt it was worth it.

As far as the changes in August go - I had an experimental section on the test that had some of the new format questions. The math section had some type-in blanks rather than multiple choice; so in my view that increases your chance of getting a wrong answer – I was happy I took it when I did. They did not include the experimental score on my report so I have no idea how I fared on it. I’m sure the newer review books will include samples though. However, it looks like its being scored in a new way that seems to be fairer overall:


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[Causa Mortis]

You should almost ignore the writing section and ignore the verbal section if you're a native English-speaking student. Get all of the math-specific books and maybe brush up on how to maximize the computer's writing score.

The reason is that the math score is of the greatest importance for economics, and is also quite malleable. The writing section isn't very important and isn't very malleable. The verbal section isn't malleable at all, and isn't very important.

[Merle]

Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You should almost ignore the writing section and ignore the verbal section if you're a native English-speaking student. Get all of the math-specific books and maybe brush up on how to maximize the computer's writing score. The reason is that the math score is of the greatest importance for economics, and is also quite malleable. The writing section isn't very important and isn't very malleable. The verbal section isn't malleable at all, and isn't very important.

If the verbal will drag your composite score down, though, it is worth investing some time in learning test-taking strategies for that section.

It's for that reason that I spent time on the math section - it matters not a whit for admission to programs in my field, but when your application goes to the graduate school for approval and fellowships then they like being able to compare you with their entire pool of admitees. Some schools, especially public schools, have cut offs for funding - they're low (1000 or 1200 composite) but if you totally bomb one section it is fairly easy to slip under those levels.

[Causa Mortis]

Originally Posted by Merle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

If the verbal will drag your composite score down, though, it is worth investing some time in learning test-taking strategies for that section. It's for that reason that I spent time on the math section - it matters not a whit for admission to programs in my field, but when your application goes to the graduate school for approval and fellowships then they like being able to compare you with their entire pool of admitees. Some schools, especially public schools, have cut offs for funding - they're low (1000 or 1200 composite) but if you totally bomb one section it is fairly easy to slip under those levels.

He won't be a competitive applicant in economics unless he does at least 780 on the quant section assuming he's going for a PhD. I'm assuming that if he's a native English speaker he should easily be able to get a 500 with little or no practice. Unfair?

[Merle]

	Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He won't be a competitive applicant in economics unless he does at least 780 on the quant section assuming he's going for a PhD. I'm assuming that if he's a native English speaker he should easily be able to get a 500 with little or no practice. Unfair?

You're right - I forgot that the ceiling on the math is usually higher so it is easier to get a higher composite score for people who are good at math and bad at the verbal than the other way around.

[Jalex]

I took it twice. The first time I thought it was easy "basics right?" not at all. I got a GPA of 3.9/4.0 during my undergrad studies, so I was pretty confident I was going to own it.

You know all the stuff, you just need to have an exam strategy, that is, where to spend your time, when to drop a question, where to stress and where not to stress. So I'll suggest as other have suggested, grab a guide (don't use the free ones, they give a false sense of security) and time yourself. Start with the paper based and move to the computer based. You'll get the feeling of what I'm talking about.

The coolest thing was that the exam is mainly for US colleges, and I didn't want to go to the US to study at all. My bad.
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[Causa Mortis]

	Originally Posted by Merle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You're right - I forgot that the ceiling on the math is usually higher so it is easier to get a higher composite score for people who are good at math and bad at the verbal than the other way around.

Randomly curious, but wouldn't even the softest disciplines in the humanities look favorably on an easily-obtainable 750 quant? A strong candidate could probably eek that out in a week or two's reasonably diligent study.

[Merle]

	Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Randomly curious, but wouldn't even the softest disciplines in the humanities look favorably on an easily-obtainable 750 quant? A strong candidate could probably eek that out in a week or two's reasonably diligent study.

Most humanities departments in my discipline do not even look at your quant score. It only comes into play once the department recommends you for admission and the grad school gets a look at your file. I mean, it would hardly hurt you, but it would be unlikely to do anything more than garner a raised eyebrow of oh-this-person-can-do-math-too-huh. It's worth bulking it up for the fellowship possibilities it opens up...but other than that, no.

Oh, but Philosophy departments DO want a high quant - they want both to be sky high, in fact.

[sircockburn]

Originally Posted by Ericds84 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

As I am now entertaining the possibility of going to grad school for a degree in economics, it appears the GRE will figure into my future. Given my historically cavalier attitude toward tests I am tempted to go in and wing it. From what I can see it tests basic reading/writing/reasoning aptitudes. What bothers me is that even if you retake the test, your past scores stay with you. And the amount of test-prep materials in the marketplace makes me think twice--maybe there's something I'm missing, or do most people really need to practice these sorts of things to do well? So for those who've taken the test, what can I expect and how much should I invest in preparing for it?

The math part will be easy for you. I got a 780 on it without studying at all, and I'm not even a math major. And I'm "just an ESTP".
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You computer programming INTJs should be able to march in and make the computer freeze at your brain's mightiness.

The verbal part kicked my ass, because they use obscure words that haven't seen the light of day since Aristotle cracked open a book.

I hate vocabulary, it makes life more difficult than it needs to be. BUT...that's life.

Study the verbal until you're wiping your ass with torn sheets from the dictionary. Just buy those flashcards they sell. Don't worry about the math though, it's all about simple common sense.

*actually, even common sense can help you out with the verbal. I didn't know even half the words on there, and still scraped out with a 700 on the verbal, just with basic common sense when it came to working things out in my mind. If you fancy N's are too good for "layman common sense", well then...hmph.

[rbc]

	Originally Posted by sircockburn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The math part will be easy for you.

The math part is definitely easier than the math part of the SATs, or at least it was in 1991 and 1995, when I took them. It probably still is, because people who don't major in a quantitative discipline generally take no math at all in college, so their skills atrophy, while people who do major in a quantitative discipline take so much more math than they did in high school that the schools don't even look at any score but the subject test (like my own major, physics). That said, the verbal part of the GRE did seem distinctly harder than the SAT -- but the best studying I ever did for it was performing in several Gilbert & Sullivan operettas with the musical theater club, because often "hard" words = archaic words.
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[Causa Mortis]

Originally Posted by Merle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Most humanities departments in my discipline do not even look at your quant score. It only comes into play once the department recommends you for admission and the grad school gets a look at your file. I mean, it would hardly hurt you, but it would be unlikely to do anything more than garner a raised eyebrow of oh-this-person-can-do-math-too-huh. It's worth bulking it up for the fellowship possibilities it opens up...but other than that, no. Oh, but Philosophy departments DO want a high quant - they want both to be sky high, in fact.

More random curiosity: would scoring >1500 be more or less a shoe-in at top-tier programs for softer disciplines? I'm still debating foregoing the unfunded econ PhD since economics is so crazy-competitive for other disciplines.

[Merle]

	Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	More random curiosity: would scoring >1500 be more or less a shoe-in at top-tier programs for softer disciplines? I'm still debating foregoing the unfunded econ PhD since economics is so crazy-competitive for other disciplines.

I certainly can't speak for all admissions committees in the Humanities but, from my experience and that of everyone I know who has applied, a 1500+ wouldn't be looked at very much differently to a 1200 . The GRE counts for very little in admissions decisions in my discipline and, I suspect, in most Humanities disciplines. No one is a shoe-in on numbers alone at any Humanities program, let alone the very top programs; your statement and your example piece of work are what matters. Yes, most admittees to the very top tier programs have excellent GRE scores but I suspect that is not the reason they were admitted but more a consequence of their overall approach to the application - so, it is more a side effect of their general excellence than an indicator that high GRE scores get you into top programs.

If you don't mind me asking, though, what other disciplines do you mean? I can't think of any that are not competititve at top-tier institutions. Perhaps something like American Studies or History is slightly less competititve, but they're also a lot harder to find work in once you finish... and a lot less transferrable. Not sure it's worth the switch, to be honest. I was advised to apply for Geography programs because it is easier to get in....My thoughts were: my project is spatial, yes, but I don't want to work in a Geography department! So, sure, it would be easier to get in and get the PhD but what would I do then?!

[sircockburn]

Originally Posted by rbc To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The math part is definitely easier than the math part of the SATs, or at least it was in 1991 and 1995, when I took them. It probably still is, because people who don't major in a quantitative discipline generally take no math at all in college, so their skills atrophy, while people who do major in a quantitative discipline take so much more math than they did in high school that the schools don't even look at any score but the subject test (like my own major, physics). That said, the verbal part of the GRE did seem distinctly harder than the SAT -- but the best studying I ever did for it was performing in several Gilbert & Sullivan operettas with the musical theater club, because often "hard" words = archaic words. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I took the SAT in 2006, when it became all weird, and even so, the math was so much easier than the verbal. I got a perfect math score, and a lousier verbal.

I thoroughly despise reading comprehension questions, I just want to whiz through the questions, not carefully scour two pages to answer one question involving prioritizing detailed "meaning" sequences, etc. It's just so frustrating.

If they had analogies, I would have rocked it.
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I got a near perfect score on the Miller Analogies Test. I guess analogies use similar reasoning as math.

Reading comprehension is all about CONCENTRATION. I'm not in the concentration camp. Obviously Satan had a say in what was to be added in the SAT exam.

*pops Ritalin in mouth, Pez style*

[rbc]

	Originally Posted by sircockburn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If they had analogies, I would have rocked it. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I got a near perfect score on the Miller Analogies Test. I guess analogies use similar reasoning as math.

The analogies were definitely the best questions! Sadly, that's actually why stupid asshole ETS removed them.
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They were the most useful questions because they were the hardest tests of pure reasoning ability, which is why I loved them and why the lawyer-fearing cringing test sellers got rid of them, for fear of being sued for discriminating against stupid people -- which, frankly, is the whole damn point!
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[ButterflyPsyche]

I did very very very well on the SATs when I didn't even study, so my friends told me not to study for the GRE; however, I'm afraid I've actually gotten dumber in college. I took an ipad GRE app's abbreviated practice test and scored horribly on the English portion (which surprised me, since I was always a whiz with words, as I have taken Latin), but I got a 100% on the math section. I think the new test doesn't have an Analogy section anymore though, so that may not matter...

Since I'm not good at teaching myself things (which is why I'd prefer to read a book in a class rather than on my own), I was thinking of taking out a sizable chunk of my car money in the savings account to take one of the GRE classes available to me in town. Does that sound like a good idea? Grad school is extremely important to me, but note, I don't have a car and taking money out for a class will just make the possibility of me getting a car further from happening.

tr;dl: Do those GRE classes actually help?

[TheDubhlainn]

This is an old thread, but to everyone who reads it.

TAKE A CLASS.

[ButterflyPsyche]

Yeah, I know it's old, but I felt like it would've been better to "recycle" than make a new thread?

Isn't that what you're supposed to do on INTJf?

[Axion004]

Why take a class? You should definitely be able to study for the quantitative part on your own which should not require you to take a class. The analytical writing part of the exam comes with a practice question or two in the FREE GRE PowerPrep(I think that is what it was called) that you can download online. The only really hard part of the GRE for me(and others) was the verbal part. I did absolutely awful.

Originally Posted by rbc To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The analogies were definitely the best questions! Sadly, that's actually why stupid asshole ETS removed them. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. They were the most useful questions because they were the hardest tests of pure reasoning ability, which is why I loved them and why the lawyer-fearing cringing test sellers got rid of them, for fear of being sued for discriminating against stupid people -- which, frankly, is the whole damn point! To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You mean questions like these:
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I hated these questions with a passion
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. To the poster above- make sure you actually do have a plan to go into graduate school before you take the GRE. I took the GRE when I was 20 and I am 24 now and I am not in graduate school.