[Hariar]

	Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And that is the core reason I screwed up. Nothing on the thread signalled to me that people were discussing their values. Zero on here alluded to that. I thought people were just posting facts. Had no idea I was walking into a "values" landmine. Will avoid in the future. Seriously, had no clue.

This is indeed a facts thread. The problem, if there was any, was that you assumed your own ideas/values concerning sex/virginity were universally held in this thread. This came across as pushing your own ideas/values on others.

[Tejeira]

	Originally Posted by JC22 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Thank you Tejeira, now, because of your posts I vow to NEVER have sex, ever!. Fuck that, I vow to never to masturbate again! TAKE THAT NATURE!!!!!

You're silly ;p

I still think you're awesome. (ENTP's use "awesome" alot, almost as much as INTJ's use scalding condescension)

[FarmlandTension]

	Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You're silly ;p I still think you're awesome. (ENTP's use "awesome" alot, almost as much as INTJ's use scalding condescension)

Stop making generalisations. Seriously. There are ENTPs who don't use the word awesome at all, just as there are INTJs who use it a lot. Don't tell us everything about yourself as though you represent all ENTPs. You don't represent all ENTPs, just as you don't represent all people. Your thoughts and mannerisms are not shared by everyone, they're just yours. If you want to tell us you like the word awesome, then by all means do so, but stop pretending you can speak for whole demographics.

[AlbanyDude]

MBTI type INTJ
age 35
race Caucasian
sex Male
sexual orientation Heterosexual
nationality American
country America
level of attractiveness 6/10
reasons for being a virgin, etc I don't find the company of irrational people satisfying. That being the case, finding a suitably attractive and reasonable woman is proving to be quite the challenge. In general, our interests rarely overlap to the degree where we can have a sustained conversation. The closest I came to not being a virgin was during a two-month relationship with an ENTJ last year. I ended it since I wasn't feeling "in love" with her, and didn't want to lead her on.

[Silas]

MBTI: INTJ
Age: 20
Race: White
Sex: Male
Sexual Orientation: Heterosexual
Nationality: Dane
Country: Denmark
Level of Attractiveness: 6.5 out of 10
Reasons for being a Virgin: Religious

[Axion004]

If
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is correct then by the age of twenty three 95% of Americans have had sex.

[The Professor]

MBTI type: INTJ
Age: 22
Race: White
Sex: Male
Sexual orientation: Bisexual
Nationality: American
Country: America
Level of Attractiveness: In between humble and narcissistic.
Reasons for being a virgin: Waiting for the time to be able to commit myself to someone.

[Sniped Soul]

MBTI type INTJ
age 22
race White
sex Male
sexual orientation Heterosexual
nationality Canadian
country Canadian
level of attractiveness 8/10
reasons for being a virgin, etc I never really felt like having sex with any of the girls who were interested in me. I also live a very solitary lifestyle and just don't feel like expending a lot of energy trying to find a girl to have sex with.

[AnnaMolly]

	Originally Posted by wolfyx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why do you have to put all your eggs in one basket? As some posters above said, sex is great, natural and it can make you happy if you don't get extremely emotional over it.

That's all nice and good, but the thing is, I do get extremely emotional over it, and -- omgosh!! -- I actually like it that way. And I'm only attracted to men who are similar to me in this regard.

	Originally Posted by wolfyx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I've seen your photo and I think you are a very "datable" girl, yet you look smart and inaccessible for the average "superficial horndog men", just as you wanted...

Thanks. And sadly, apparently I don't look inaccessible enough for the average horndog men. They still bother me, though I do my best to avoid such contact as much as possible (like not frequenting avenues where being hit on is "the thing to do", like clubs or bars.)

	Originally Posted by wolfyx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I know both guys and girls who, for different reasons, have waited a long time before they started their sexual life and they all agreed after they finally did it that "they were missing out on something".

Well, duh. Of course I'm missing out on something. Of course, if I could snip my finger right now and have my ideal partner standing in front of me, I'd love having sex with him. Of course having sex with someone I love would be better than not having sex. Again, duh. That doesn't change this sweet fact though: NOT having sex is still infinitely better than having sex with someone I have no feelings for. For me.

Originally Posted by wolfyx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It is difficult for the introverted girls to meet "somebody they really like" because of their passive attitude. They wait to be approached by the "perfect guy", but those who approach them usually are the "superficial horndog" extroverted “players”. But usually the "perfect guy" that the smart "good girls" are dreaming about is a "non-superficial" introverted guy. These kind of "non-superficial" guys are usually socially awkward geeks that neglect their physical appearance and will never dare to approach a woman. Quite a paradox that in the sexually liberated and modern western society there are so many single and unhappy people...

Maybe there is something to your theory, but your wrong with it in regards to me. I'm actually a pretty proactive woman and would have no problems approaching a guy (and have done so before). My problem is that guys who I might be romantically interested in are an extremely rare species and nearly impossible to find. If I happen to think I might see one, you bet your bum I'm approaching him.

	Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I took one of my boyfriends virginity when I was 27, he was 22 and super-religious. I knew him for a year before he finally warmed up to me. Then we dated for four months and I WORE HIM DOWN on his religious reasons for not having sex. It's shennanigans. We all deserve to be happy, and sex makes you happy.

Why did the relationship fail?
You sure he's happier now that he had sex with someone and then it broke up? Maybe he would have been better off waiting for someone who thinks like him and doesn't consciously try to "wear" his reasons down. (I'm not religious at all, btw, but if people want to wait for religious reasons, I say let them.)

	Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Just start trying. Anyway you can. I "arranged" to lose my virginity with my best friend's big brother as a teen, because I was like "virginity is fucking awkward, and I don't want anyone bragging about taking mine, or getting my heart broken by some asshole I care about, so let's get this over with." It was transactional, one and done. Best decision ever. Glad I broke the seal. You should too!

Okay, how can I put this in way that isn't unfriendly but simultaneously conveys how I feel about this topic ...

You see, this is really all a matter of taste. People like you and wolfyx enjoy no-strings-attached sex. That's good for you.

I personally, however, find it distasteful. When I hear a story like the one I quoted above, or when I hear other people talk about having casual NSA sex with people they don't deeply care for, to me, it's as if these people were talking about their hobby of rubbing themselves in feces. To them, it's an awesome thing and it's fun.

But to me, it's disgusting, and I never want to partake in it. I really don't have to try it out to know that I will hate it. I also have no understanding for why anyone could possibly enjoy it, but since I'm a tolerant person, and what other people do in the privacy of their own homes doesn't concern me, I simply don't care. I respect that people have different tastes.

But if these people ask me again and again why I don't want to partake in their hobby, and if they send me invitations to their feces-tossing parties, I must decline. And then when I decline, they ask me with a surprised look on their face: "Oh, but you might be missing out! Really, I've been doing this since I was 15 and it's so nice!" ....

... Are you starting to see my point of view here?
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Do whatever you want to do, but understand that some of the things you find amazing and fun are very non-amazing and non-fun for me.

[Eyedears]

	Originally Posted by Midhiel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sex is a very emotional thing for many people. Not everyone is capable of separating the two. Not everyone wants to.

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GGGGGGGGGO, Midhiel! (One could also argue that separating the two is a sign of immaturity and superficiality.)

	Originally Posted by psykhe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Pushing your morals to others because you think they're wrong is not well-intentioned.

In her case, it's actually a lack of morals.

	Originally Posted by wolfyx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think she is just an extraverted feeler and she genuinely wants to help people, because she thinks that they are missing out on something good…

How on earth is it “helpful” and how is fornicating “good” when (just for starters) it has contributed to an increase of STD’s from 2 to around 34?!? (Not to mention the skyrocketing rate of mental illness in the past 45 years.) Sorry, that kind of “advice” is insane, IMHO.

	Originally Posted by wolfyx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Even people with a "beautiful mind" need a SO in their lives. If they can understand you and accept you for who you are they can really help you have a more balanced and happy life.

"Balanced" according to whose standards? Yours? Mine? Darwin's? God's?

	Originally Posted by Samia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	not everyone wants to go out and have sex everyday. Not everyone feels like if they don't have sex then they will feel empty, depressed or incomplete. People are different.

Preeeecisely!

Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

when I hear other people talk about having casual NSA sex with people they don't deeply care for, to me, it's as if these people were talking about their hobby of rubbing themselves in feces... But to me, it's disgusting, and I never want to partake in it. I really don't have to try it out to know that I will hate it...But if these people ask me again and again why I don't want to partake in their hobby, and if they send me invitations to their feces-tossing parties, I must decline.

Absolutely outstanding post, AnnaMolly! Sums it up perfectly! Ditto, ditto, ditto!

[Thrushbeard]

MBTI:INTJ
Age:18
Race:Caucasian
Sex:Male
Orientation:Heterosexual
Nationality:Canadian
Country:Canada
Attractiveness:7/11
Reason for Virginity: I am shy, somewhat unattractive to many females, I have a Christian family and .... I don't want AIDS yet.

[Autoptic]

Originally Posted by Eyedears To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. GGGGGGGGGO, Midhiel! (One could also argue that separating the two is a sign of immaturity and superficiality.)

Good luck. The reverse is the current norm. Slotting people in and out generically for entertainment is usually considered "mature" now. Being too sensitive to do this is regarded as something to be fixed with lovely scarring experience. Women especially have a problem with virgin partners...way way worse by my age.
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	In her case, it's actually a lack of morals.

Actually, it's different morals (or values at least) though she does seem to have trouble stating them directly.

	How on earth is it “helpful” and how is fornicating “good” when (just for starters) it has contributed to an increase of STD’s from 2 to around 34?!? (Not to mention the skyrocketing rate of mental illness in the past 45 years.) Sorry, that kind of “advice” is insane, IMHO.

STDs are possible with any non-virgin partner. Know about "degrees of separation" and the "small world" phenomenon? The projections of disease vectors look...bizarre and massively looped and interconnected. Some people find it worth the risk. Just one non-virgin can get you, even the first time, so, while the general practice is problematic, nothing other than only ever having virgin partners, who never cheat, will keep you absolutely safe (ignoring the occasional odd non-sexual vectors for what are normally STDs).

Sexual repression does have psychological effects, so there is a trade-off. Not everyone is probably genetically or neuro-developmentally built for functional monogamy. Mental illness diagnoses are inevitably increasing since both diagnostic attempts and the number of designated illnesses are increasing. The DSM certainly has expanded, and they're trying to pathologize some really scary basic human stuff...while continuing to give free passes to verifiable nonsense based solely on cultural popularity.

[psykhe]

	Originally Posted by Eyedears To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In her case, it's actually a lack of morals.

I regard morality as a subjective concept. I can't blame her if she has a different 'set' of morals than mine nor I want to impose mine to her. Fair and square.

[JSmileS]

INTJ
Age:28
American born El Salvadorean
Straight male
Attractiveness: I turn the occasional head and get some smiles but "God's gift to women" I ain't.
Reasons for virginity:
A combination of an extremely sheltered childhood, high level of introversion, and ADD. No one I meet now holds my interest beyond physical attraction, which isn't enough, which then causes me too break away. Doesn't help that most of the new people I meet (men AND women) are brainwashed consumerist zombies with no interest beyond clubbing, getting fucked up, and flavor of the month prepackaged media and gossip.

[Eyedears]

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The reverse is the current norm. Slotting people in and out generically for entertainment is usually considered "mature" now. Being too sensitive to do this is regarded as something to be fixed with lovely scarring experience...some really scary basic human stuff...while continuing to give free passes to verifiable nonsense based solely on cultural popularity.

Yes, unfortunately, all part of the Gramscian Long March:


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"The better to enslave the masses, dearie..."

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Just one non-virgin can get you, even the first time, so, while the general practice is problematic, nothing other than only ever having virgin partners, who never cheat, will keep you absolutely safe (ignoring the occasional odd non-sexual vectors for what are normally STDs).

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Right, hence the strong argument for society pushing abstinence and monogamy. Fact stands: prior to the entrenchment of the Sexual Revolution Devolution, mankind had only 2 STD's (and those were bad enough).

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sexual repression does have psychological effects

And rampant promiscuity doesn't? (cf. my above reference to the increase in mental illness in the past 45 years...and yes, I'm aware the widespread use of "recreational" drugs [why are they so named, when they do not "re-create," but rather destroy?] also has a role in this.)

[Human]

MBTI:ISFJ
Age:28
Race:Human
Sex:Male
Orientation:Straight
Nationality:Australian
Country:Australia
Attractiveness:7/10, if I was female I would be 99999/10
Reason for Virginity: Scared of the intensity. I don't like people in my personal space. Can't find (or don't look for) girls I can connect with

[Tiredofwit]

MBTI:INTJ
Age:19
Race:Human
Sex:Male
Orientation:Straight
Nationality:American
Country: (someone used this for nationality already, so I'll use it here...) 'merica!!!
Attractiveness: 6/10
Reason for Virginity: There have been two chances, and I just didn't know how to pursue them/didn't want to pursue them. The overarching reason is that there's a girl, and by jingo, if I have to wait 'till I'm old and crusty, I'll ask her to marry me. <- Think Sam at the end of "Return of the King".

[Nemesis]

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You see, this is really all a matter of taste. People like you and wolfyx enjoy no-strings-attached sex. That's good for you.

So far, so good. Let's see where you take this idea....

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	it's as if these people were talking about their hobby of rubbing themselves in feces... But to me, it's disgusting, and I never want to partake in it. I really don't have to try it out to know that I will hate it. I also have no understanding for why anyone could possibly enjoy it

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	send me invitations to their feces-tossing parties

hmm.

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm a tolerant person

No, you aren't.

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I respect that people have different tastes.

No, you don't.

Lauding yourself as 'tolerant' and saying that you 'accept' lifestyles that are different than your own while simultaneously characterizing those lifestyles as incredibly negative and disgusting doesn't raise any red-flags in your mind?

It's kind of like claiming you are racially tolerant and accept cultural differences but then turning around and saying 'I just don't like to be around those disgusting coloureds and their ooga booga parties'. Does not compute.

	Originally Posted by Eyedears To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	prior to the entrenchment of the Sexual Revolution Devolution, mankind had only 2 STD's (and those were bad enough).

Are you making this up?

	Originally Posted by Eyedears To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	increase in mental illness in the past 45 years.

... is a result of more conditions being identified, over-diagnosis of certain conditions, less stigma towards mental illness (hence, more people being open about it), and a drastic increase in daily stress from a huge number of factors (little to do with sex). Correlation =/= causation etc. etc. etc.

Like AnnaMolly, you seem to want people to accept and respect your choice to abstain from sex but also get a pass on smugly pissing all over people who don't share your choice. Turning around and trying to say 'well, to each their own' doesn't negate your obvious lack of acceptance or respect for the lifestyles that others choose and is completely disingenuous.


Those are some pretty rusty halos you two have there.

[1F5]

MBTI = INTx
Age = 20
Race = Mixed blood (predominantly Mediterranean)
Sex = Male
Sexual Orientation = Heterosexual
Nationality = Mexican
Country = Mexico
Level Of Attractiveness = 7
Reasons for being a Virgin =
// Introversion
// Haven't found a right woman, only found some bitches

[setsume]

Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

So far, so good. Let's see where you take this idea.... Lauding yourself as 'tolerant' and saying that you 'accept' lifestyles that are different than your own while simultaneously characterizing those lifestyles as incredibly negative and disgusting doesn't raise any red-flags in your mind? It's kind of like claiming you are racially tolerant and accept cultural differences but then turning around and saying 'I just don't like to be around those disgusting coloureds and their ooga booga parties'. Does not compute.

Computes for me. Why do you have to like what someone is doing in order to tolerate it? The word tolerance originally actually meant enduring something something one does not like, before it was given the meaning of allowing the beliefs and practices of others. Following the rebellion to this authority in which intolerance has become a sin itself, its a sin to criticize them whatsoever, with some exemptions of their own as seen below:

	Those are some pretty rusty halos you two have there.

It's only a "lifestyle" when it accords with their standards.

[Midhiel]

Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Lauding yourself as 'tolerant' and saying that you 'accept' lifestyles that are different than your own while simultaneously characterizing those lifestyles as incredibly negative and disgusting doesn't raise any red-flags in your mind? It's kind of like claiming you are racially tolerant and accept cultural differences but then turning around and saying 'I just don't like to be around those disgusting coloureds and their ooga booga parties'. Does not compute.

Being tolerant of alternative lifestyles doesn't mean that one cannot have an opinion of them. And it seems that AnnaMolly's reaction is a deeply felt thing, not something she has decided upon consciously.

Basically, everyone can do whatever they want, and we won't try to stop them, but that doesn't mean that we can't think it's gross and avoid it in our own lives.

[RandomLurker]

	Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Turning around and trying to say 'well, to each their own' doesn't negate your obvious lack of acceptance or respect for the lifestyles that others choose and is completely disingenuous.

She accepts the fact that you get to choose how to live your life. Is it her fault that you chose wrong?
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[Crazyblue]

	Post your MBTI type, age, race, sex, sexual orientation, nationality, country in which you live, level of attractiveness, reasons for being a virgin, etc.

INTJ
25
Northern European
Straight
United States Citizen
US
Average I guess. What, do you want pictures or something?
I have not met anyone that I really felt comfortable with.

[IotaNull]

	Originally Posted by Midhiel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Being tolerant of alternative lifestyles doesn't mean that one cannot have an opinion of them.

This. Nor is it a binary switch.

Nem's analogy is a poor one on account of the fact that "racial tolerance" is something of a special case. It's essentially a phrase of its own, not the sum total of its components.

There's also the fact that race (and to a lesser extent culture), being an innate trait rather than a choice, is something people are expected to be more tolerant of, so intolerance of it stands out further from the "neutral ground" than in most other cases.

[AnnaMolly]

	Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Lauding yourself as 'tolerant' and saying that you 'accept' lifestyles that are different than your own while simultaneously characterizing those lifestyles as incredibly negative and disgusting doesn't raise any red-flags in your mind?

Actually, no. I thought that's what tolerance is -- tolerating things you don't like. If I liked them, it wouldn't be called tolerance, but liking
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As long as people don't harm me or other uninvolved people (or animals), I don't see any reason for me to care. Doesn't mean I have to like what they're doing, or even look at it neutrally. I can find it disgusting, but still accept that others like it.

For example, I also find lots of body modifications gross. I mean, really gross. (I've stood in operation rooms and had my hands wrist-deep in pulsating guts without blinking, but huge amounts of body modification still make me gag.) Would I ever date someone with lots of body-mod? No. Would I want to watch the procedure of someone receiving heavy body-mod? Hell no. Do I find it immoral or do I aim to ban it? No. In my opinion, that's tolerance.

	Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's kind of like claiming you are racially tolerant and accept cultural differences but then turning around and saying 'I just don't like to be around those disgusting coloureds and their ooga booga parties'. Does not compute.

Race is a special case (along with other special cases, like gender) because you can't choose your race. You also can't choose to be heterosexual, or a woman. Discriminating someone for a trait they can't possibly change is generally looked at as worse than discriminating them for something they did out of their own free will.

However, I actually don't think I'd find it morally heineous if someone said: "I don't like white people, I wouldn't want to be friends with them, but I can tolerate them and on a professional level, I don't treat them any worse than I treat people of other ethnics."

	Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Like AnnaMolly, you seem to want people to accept and respect your choice to abstain from sex but also get a pass on smugly pissing all over people who don't share your choice. Turning around and trying to say 'well, to each their own' doesn't negate your obvious lack of acceptance or respect for the lifestyles that others choose and is completely disingenuous.

Accept =/= respect.
Tolerating =/= liking.

I know many people will find my 23 year old virginity to be a sign of utter prudishness, infantility, prissiness, immaturity, social awkwardness, and what else not, and see it as a complete dealbreaker and would never want to date me because of it. Some may even not want to be my friend because of it, because they prefer to surround themselves with friends who have similar experiences and / or a similar mindset to themselves. I don't see anything wrong with that.


Besides, if it bothers you that I say that I find the idea of casual sex and promiscuity to be awful / disgusting, what would you suggest me to do about it? I can't change my inner reaction to these things without changing my values themselves, and I certainly don't want to do that (and I'm not sure I actually could). The best I can do is tolerate it.

FWIW, I don't have a habit of walking up to promiscuous people and telling them that I find what they're doing disgusting
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though when someone asks me, I answer honestly and try to be as polite as I can while doing so.