The virtue of charity

**Tactical Panda** · 07-09-2012, 05:53 AM

This thread is intended for discussion rather than just rejecting the notion of charity.

- - -

What is the point of the virtue of charity?

I don't mean charity as in a not-for-profit organization based on donations, but the quality of meaningful generosity even when it is costly.

When is it of benefit or is good? When isn't it? Does it matter if it promotes laziness - is it better to factor that in before charitable action is taken or doesn't it really matter?

If it is good, why is it good? Or how can it be seen as good? Or is it not good?

Should it be extended to strangers? Should it be extended when it is far from your responsibility?

What is the core of the issue behind the need for charity?

(I'm curious for its day to day applications with the people directly in your life rather than the third world donation issues.)

**ENM** · 07-09-2012, 07:44 AM

EDIT: Sorry, forgot about the "I don't mean charity as in a not-for-profit organization based on donations" part.

**Imperator** · 07-09-2012, 08:49 AM

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What is the point of the virtue of charity?

I don't understand the question.


	When is it of benefit or is good? When isn't it? Does it matter if it promotes laziness - is it better to factor that in before charitable action is taken or doesn't it really matter?

It's good when it benefits the recipient, it's bad when it benefits the promoter.
Some people offer "help" to appease their own guilt or to boost their egos.


	Should it be extended to strangers? Should it be extended when it is far from your responsibility?

I've always thought it should especially be done in these circumstances.

If it's done for your own people, you're basically helping yourself, which is just ego-stroking.


	What is the core of the issue behind the need for charity?

My primary drive is to leave earth better than I found it, because fuck the odds.
In many ways I view happiness as a zero sum game, and since I'm already a miserable fuck, that means for the sake of cosmic balance I gotta make sure everyone else is chipper.


	(I'm curious for its day to day applications with the people directly in your life rather than the third world donation issues.)

I carry change so I can give it to homeless when I see them.
I will occasionally buy random items or do random things for people who look like they're having a bad day.
I offer help if I see someone carrying heavy things, juggling lots of packages, etc.
I get the door for people.
Whenever I'm at an event, I ask the organizers if they need help with anything; setting up equipment, taking down equipment, picking up the trash, etc.
Used to give blood, but fell out of it in recent years.

**nettneu** · 07-09-2012, 11:00 AM

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't mean charity as in a not-for-profit organization based on donations, but the quality of meaningful generosity even when it is costly.

Having read that. I really still don't know what you mean by "charity". Do you mean giving people money? If so:

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	When is it of benefit or is good? When isn't it? Does it matter if it promotes laziness - is it better to factor that in before charitable action is taken or doesn't it really matter?

I do it if I'm asked to by someone I like (or someone I don't know who appeals to me momentarily or whose way of asking appeals to me), if I happen to be able to conveniently afford it. (I also give presents to people I like - for example at birthdays. Does that count in your definition?). Anyway, if those conditions are satisfied I don't care if it promotes laziness - some of the people I like do happen to be more lazy than me, it doesn't stop me liking them, because they have other qualities that I appreciate, like being fun.

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If it is good, why is it good? Or how can it be seen as good? Or is it not good?

Obviously I only do it when I find it a good thing to do. ("If it feels good, do it").

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Should it be extended to strangers? Should it be extended when it is far from your responsibility? What is the core of the issue behind the need for charity?

There's no "should" or "need" about it. I only do it if I want to.

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	(I'm curious for its day to day applications with the people directly in your life rather than the third world donation issues.)

Now that's really confusing. You said up above "I don't mean charity as in a not-for-profit organization based on donations". So where would "third world donation issues" come into it anyway? But actually I treat them pretty much the same anyway - i.e. it depends on the person who asks me to donate. (There are certain organizations to which I donate simply because I want them to achieve your objectives, but I guess that's not what you're talking about, as in that case it's more like buying something I want rather than giving money away.)

**Awesome** · 07-09-2012, 12:09 PM

I recall watching a TED talks video where the speaker found that it doesn't matter the amount of money you give to someone but the act of giving itself that provides happiness to both individuals.
In other words the small things can make a big difference.
Giving a hundred dollars to a homeless man has nearly the same effect as buying someones coffee at Starbucks.

As far as charity goes it can promote prosperity or laziness both.

What about charity in the form of wisdom or knowledge?

**thod** · 07-09-2012, 12:36 PM

The group that practices such is more successful than one that does not. You give a part of your food to the injured man and he will give to you when you are injured. If he carries similar genes to you, giving to him is not so different to feeding yourself. A similar rational can be used to explain why people feed their children.

**Zsych** · 07-09-2012, 12:52 PM

*sleep talking*

Strengthens bonds in society, strengthens tendency to treat each other better which increases mutual trust and reduces inclination to attack and take advantage. Creates opportunities for people who may not have had them.

Bad when given to someone who has no ambition and will make a lifestyle out of depending on others. Bad when unnecessary. Bad when given to unappreciative parasites because they use it to maintain their parasitic worldview and expand it to similar minded people, leading to more people being taken advantage of and losing faith.

Basically charity is hazardous when coupled with a lack of wisdom. Some people are undeserving. It does not help to direct money towards and strengthen sub-cultures / economies, that do not benefit the greater whole.

Charity, is likely not intended to be an emotion that is used too far outside your regular sphere of acquaintances / friends... or people who have a decent chance to grow to be such.

**Munglik** · 07-09-2012, 01:22 PM

What is the point of the virtue of charity?

For me it's a way to feel more at ease with the world around me. I feel sorry for some friends and family members so I try to help a bit so I feel more comfortable around them.

When is it of benefit or is good? When isn't it? Does it matter if it promotes laziness - is it better to factor that in before charitable action is taken or doesn't it really matter?

If I feel they would not want to be helped I just try to ignore it. If they do want help but if I fear they might become dependent of me I'll try to find someone else to help them.

If it is good, why is it good? Or how can it be seen as good? Or is it not good?

In my case it wouldn't be called "good", I suppose. I do it mostly for selfish reasons.

Should it be extended to strangers? Should it be extended when it is far from your responsibility?

Feel free to do it yourself but you can't force such things.

What is the core of the issue behind the need for charity?

There are a lot of reasons. You need to judge it on a case to case basis.

Note: Charity here might be completely different than in the US because we have quite an extended welfare system.

**Distance** · 07-09-2012, 01:38 PM

Not going to write a storybook post. All that matters is that starvation shouldn't happen so yes, I support charities with low overhead.

07-09-2012, 05:53 AM	#1
Tactical Panda Core Member [133%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,328	This thread is intended for discussion rather than just rejecting the notion of charity. - - - What is the point of the virtue of charity? I don't mean charity as in a not-for-profit organization based on donations, but the quality of meaningful generosity even when it is costly. When is it of benefit or is good? When isn't it? Does it matter if it promotes laziness - is it better to factor that in before charitable action is taken or doesn't it really matter? If it is good, why is it good? Or how can it be seen as good? Or is it not good? Should it be extended to strangers? Should it be extended when it is far from your responsibility? What is the core of the issue behind the need for charity? (I'm curious for its day to day applications with the people directly in your life rather than the third world donation issues.)
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07-09-2012, 07:44 AM	#2
ENM New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 38	EDIT: Sorry, forgot about the "I don't mean charity as in a not-for-profit organization based on donations" part.
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07-09-2012, 12:09 PM	#5
Awesome Member [14%] MBTI: INtj Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 591	I recall watching a TED talks video where the speaker found that it doesn't matter the amount of money you give to someone but the act of giving itself that provides happiness to both individuals. In other words the small things can make a big difference. Giving a hundred dollars to a homeless man has nearly the same effect as buying someones coffee at Starbucks. As far as charity goes it can promote prosperity or laziness both. What about charity in the form of wisdom or knowledge?
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07-09-2012, 12:36 PM	#6
thod Core Member [163%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 6,520	The group that practices such is more successful than one that does not. You give a part of your food to the injured man and he will give to you when you are injured. If he carries similar genes to you, giving to him is not so different to feeding yourself. A similar rational can be used to explain why people feed their children.
thod is online post a comment

07-09-2012, 12:52 PM	#7
Zsych Core Member [309%] MBTI: XNTX Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 12,372	sleep talking Strengthens bonds in society, strengthens tendency to treat each other better which increases mutual trust and reduces inclination to attack and take advantage. Creates opportunities for people who may not have had them. Bad when given to someone who has no ambition and will make a lifestyle out of depending on others. Bad when unnecessary. Bad when given to unappreciative parasites because they use it to maintain their parasitic worldview and expand it to similar minded people, leading to more people being taken advantage of and losing faith. Basically charity is hazardous when coupled with a lack of wisdom. Some people are undeserving. It does not help to direct money towards and strengthen sub-cultures / economies, that do not benefit the greater whole. Charity, is likely not intended to be an emotion that is used too far outside your regular sphere of acquaintances / friends... or people who have a decent chance to grow to be such.
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07-09-2012, 01:22 PM	#8
Munglik Member [46%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,857	What is the point of the virtue of charity? For me it's a way to feel more at ease with the world around me. I feel sorry for some friends and family members so I try to help a bit so I feel more comfortable around them. When is it of benefit or is good? When isn't it? Does it matter if it promotes laziness - is it better to factor that in before charitable action is taken or doesn't it really matter? If I feel they would not want to be helped I just try to ignore it. If they do want help but if I fear they might become dependent of me I'll try to find someone else to help them. If it is good, why is it good? Or how can it be seen as good? Or is it not good? In my case it wouldn't be called "good", I suppose. I do it mostly for selfish reasons. Should it be extended to strangers? Should it be extended when it is far from your responsibility? Feel free to do it yourself but you can't force such things. What is the core of the issue behind the need for charity? There are a lot of reasons. You need to judge it on a case to case basis. Note: Charity here might be completely different than in the US because we have quite an extended welfare system.
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07-09-2012, 01:38 PM	#9
Distance Core Member [411%] MBTI: eNTj Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 16,459	Not going to write a storybook post. All that matters is that starvation shouldn't happen so yes, I support charities with low overhead.
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