[Tejeira]

So this has been interesting....let me tell you a little story and maybe you can tell me some steps to progress this if there is a logical positive outcome, or if there is no point and to leave this person to their own devices.

Living in a major US city. Tons of singles, and most of us are highly paid, and highly educated. Not tons of the singles here are hot and beautiful. I am. We'll start there. Since everyone is smart and wealthy, my leverage is looks on top of those other two advantages for this dating pool. So I'm used to having a very high success rate with men, and have had excellent LTR's as well as many dates.

Met this guy (INTJ) online about five months ago. Emailed every other day for a month until our first date, because we're both workaholics and I was dating several people at that time, I'm sure he was too. His emails were thorough, logical, detailed, very honest, interesting, and I was hooked into learning more about this person. First date went very well in terms of chemistry. I was 20 min late (I am mostly ENTP), but we talked non-stop. He had a red flag which was talking about his ex from several years back. He also said he thinks monogamy in a marriage is a challenging idea. Two red flags but the chemistry was strong, he even walked me to my car and gave me a kiss on the cheek. And he insistent about meeting again. He came across as very impressed by me, and excited to learn more. He also commented that I am very beautiful, but the way he said it was almost a statement, not a compliment. He talks like that....statements, without emotion or drama. Second date was more formal, he picked me up, booked a nice restaurant, took me to a show afterwards. And I slept with him that night, and we had sex the whole next day. This is rare for me to sleep with anyone this fast, but we agreed on so many topics that I was sure we'd just progress to a relationship (we're both in 30's and want marriage and kids). Plus he said he's been fruitlessly dating for two years. So I figured let's cut the BS social ritual and we slept together. For me, if the sex is good, and I've already seen we click on many other levels, I'm like, cut the BS I'm in. i figured we've been talking six weeks, and I'm in my 30's now, and he's hot and kissing my neck at this show, let's get out of here. So that happened. Financially we're both in a place where we could support a LTR/marriage/family. And supposedly we're both looking for that.

The next week was by bday and he invited himself along. Not only did he invite, but he made reservations for all of my friends and paid. It was about $400 easily. Then about 15 of us went to a reggae club (I had reservations about taking him b/c I knew an INTJ would hate this environment) he did hold my hand on the way to the club, and about an hour later, he was like, "this isn't my scene, do you want to go home with me?" I explained that I don't want to start a pattern of sleeping with someone who is not my boyfriend, and I'm happy to keep seeing him if he thinks he'll get there, but we need to get to know each other and not turn this into a casual fling. He was shocked. And kind of entitled. He was like, "but you're the girl that just slept with me last weekend!" And I said, "I know, but prior to all that I was very clear that I am looking for a relationship, likely leading to marriage and kids, and I do not hook up. So I'm not going to start now." I gave him a kiss and he seemed upset, but he said "okay, look, you're very hot, but I'm not ready to be a boyfriend, because the next person I commit to, that's going to be it for me, and I just need time, give me at least 6-7 more times seeing you, before I say I'm your boyfriend, because things going bad just hurts way too much and I cannot do it again."

He invited himself to brunch again the morning after my bday and paid. But he seemed flustered and distracted. He did make good eye contact though.

Now since that weekend, I apologized for "rushing things", he took it in stride and thanked me for taking pressure off. I told him the only reason I put pressure on being monogamous is because he put pressure on having sex. I was fine to wait on both.

Now his emails never stopped, at this point I had known him seven weeks, and he emailed about every other day. He did email that he really likes me but "after thinking about it, we're not on the same wavelength that would be conducive to a LTR. But i really like hanging out with you, so can we do platonic things?" I said sure! I was bummed, but what are you gonna do? I like the guy so I figured friendship is better than not having him in my life.

Fast forward, he has made a point for the last three months to email or talk to me constantly. We text. We email. We share stories. I refuse to have casual sex with him still, he hasn't pursued it but he says he's open to casual sex with whoever, and he's always EXTREMELY flirty when he sees me in person. Never flirty on email. Don't think INTJ's are capable of that. I get him to open up a little about emotions. He's funny b/c immediately after he cut me off as a possible girlfriend, he attempted setting me up with a friend by all three of us going out a few times for just drinks. It was hilarious. I don't think he understood how socially inappropriate this was, but to me and the to other guy it was obviously strange. And INTJ "cares" enough how my dates go with other guys to the point he'll even text me at 1am and say "how was your date?!" I'm like......sure, you don't like me. He always pays for dinner or drinks when he takes me out.

Now five months after meeting this iNTJ, he is planning on group trip to the Greek Islands with me. He and I are planning the trip, he's inviting two friends, I'm inviting one, and he offered to pay for my flight. He said "it's the least I can do for you to be willing to travel with boring ole me". I don't think he's boring at all. I think he's fascinating. But I am extremely fun, experienced at partying, and he's knows he'll have a blast with me. I thrive in groups. And I'm a nightlife fiend. He did recently say "I do like you in alot of girlfriend ways. And I love your fun and adventure, it's just not me 24/7, I can't do that. And I doubt you'd feel relaxed around how serious I am 24/7, when I'm not around you I'm extremely serious." I told him that's fine. I also told him I get hyper around him b/c I have a crush on him, and I'll work on calming the hell down! We've seen each other since that conversation, I was much calmer, and this time he said "you're very intense. I'm like a 7, and you're a 10 on the intensity." Geez! Either I'm too boisterious/ADD/fun or I'm too serious/intense. LOL Both are true and I've heard them my whole life. He said "not a bad thing, just probably hard to live with." I said "no, I just do my own thing, I've lived with bf's before, I know I have too much energy for most people so I do my own thing. Don't expect any bf to keep up. Not their concern."

Anyways...so we're going on this trip. He knows I care very much about his feelings, his comfort level, and his general happiness. He knows he can talk to me about anything. He also knows I can do my own thing and I don't need babysitting, or nurturing (which INTJ's are incapable of). At this point, he's a supercool friend and I just adore him to bits, I told him he's my pet INTJ and I could listen to him pontificate all day long. On the first leg of the trip we're staying at my ex's villa in Athens (ex from college days) and then on to the islands. INTJ wants to pay for my flight but he asked would it be awkward if he hooks up with women on vacation, I said it's all good b/c I was planning on hooking up with my college sweetheart too.
And of course, we're planning on sleeping with each other too, in the islands, because damnit, it's vacation people! He's made it clear he's extremely attracted to me. I asked if he was 100% okay with me sleeping with my ex and us staying at ex's house, he said that's all good, as long as he can buy my ticket and sleep with other women. Too funny. Couldn't make this stuff up.

After we get back from the Greek Islands, I guess I need to find a real boyfriend. This guy is doing his own thing......just not sure what's in it for him to keep me around? If he thinks he doesn't like me so much, how come he keeps putting me into his life? How come if I don't email him for days he will seek me out? How come he asks very personal questions? If this man doesn't care about me, why does he act like he kind-of does? All my friends love the way he is around me, they think he's attentive to me, his body language is towards me (and my friends are pretty and he find them attractive), and they think he likes me more. They think he's hyper-sexual and out of touch with his feelings. Should I waste one second of time on this guy? Or is he strictly just a friend?

[Megalomania]

I would just like to congratulate you on your beauty. That is all.

[Cooper]

Can you rewrite this using bullet points?

[Tejeira]

Sorry guys. lol. I really don't know what to do with this guy.

---------- Post added 07-08-2012 at 03:54 PM ----------

I clearly need help b/c I find his INTJ--ness adorable. Don't know what to do with myself.

[Collide]

Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

He had a red flag which was talking about his ex from several years back. He also said he thinks monogamy in a marriage is a challenging idea. And I slept with him that night, and we had sex the whole next day. I explained that I don't want to start a pattern of sleeping with someone who is not my boyfriend, and I'm happy to keep seeing him if he thinks he'll get there, but we need to get to know each other and not turn this into a casual fling. He was shocked. And kind of entitled. He was like, "but you're the girl that just slept with me last weekend!" And I said, "I know, but prior to all that I was very clear that I am looking for a relationship, likely leading to marriage and kids, and I do not hook up. So I'm not going to start now." He did email that he really likes me but "after thinking about it, we're not on the same wavelength that would be conducive to a LTR. But i really like hanging out with you, so can we do platonic things?" I refuse to have casual sex with him still it's just not me 24/7, I can't do that. And I doubt you'd feel relaxed around how serious I am 24/7, when I'm not around you I'm extremely serious." And of course, we're planning on sleeping with each other too, They think he's hyper-sexual and out of touch with his feelings. Should I waste one second of time on this guy? Or is he strictly just a friend?

Your beauty doesn't really have anything to do with the situation. He is very clear about his intentions and you seem to be very foggy. You slept with him. Then you said you don't do casual sex. Now you're saying you'd sleep with him on an island? What happened to "I refuse to have casual sex with him still". He says he doesn't think you and him are compatible if you had to spend too much time together. INTJs stick with their decisions. The reason that he's acting like he still is attracted to you is because he still is. He cut it off because he didn't think it was a very logical relationship. Anyway, I think it's creepy how he continues to buy you extremely expensive gifts. Think about his intentions. Listen to your friends assessment of him.

[Autumnleaf]

	Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sorry guys. lol. I really don't know what to do with this guy. ---------- Post added 07-08-2012 at 03:54 PM ---------- I clearly need help b/c I find his INTJ--ness adorable. Don't know what to do with myself.

Tell him you like him and want him to be your boyfriend. (This gives him a clear go signal if he is interested)

Then tell him to stop calling you because it hurts too much to talk to him if you can't have him as more then a friend. Then hang up the phone. (You have to do the takeaway after giving him the go signal to get him off his ass and after yours. I didn't make these rules, I just recognize them.)

I'm not a fan of ultimatums but in this case it might work for you.

[Tejeira]

"He is very clear about his intentions and you seem to be very foggy. You slept with him. Then you said you don't do casual sex. Now you're saying you'd sleep with him on an island? What happened to "I refuse to have casual sex with him still". He says he doesn't think you and him are compatible if you had to spend too much time together. INTJs stick with their decisions. The reason that he's acting like he still is attracted to you is because he still is. He cut it off because he didn't think it was a very logical relationship. Anyway, I think it's creepy how he continues to buy you extremely expensive gifts. Think about his intentions. Listen to your friends assessment of him."

Good feedback. I slept with him when we both thought we'd end up dating. As for the vacation, I'm just being realistic that two people, very attracted to each other, on the beach, will most likely engage in intercourse. Until then, and after we return, it's back to normal. So no sex outside of those two weeks. I'm emotionally comfortable with that, b/c it's for me, not him.

My friends assessment is to stick with him, and let him grow into it, they see alot of potential. I had given up the second he broke it off, because I'm very literal, so that was the end for me. My friends have encouraged me to see he actually likes me still.

He doesn't buy me any expensive gifts. So far he pays for dinner and drinks. This plane ticket is the first and only thing he's offered to buy me.

[Autumnleaf]

	Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He doesn't buy me any expensive gifts. So far he pays for dinner and drinks. This plane ticket is the first and only thing he's offered to buy me.

He's renting a milk cow instead of buying it. If you are okay with this arrangement quit complaining. If you are not, then stop it.

[Tejeira]

Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Tell him you like him and want him to be your boyfriend. (This gives him a clear go signal if he is interested) Then tell him to stop calling you because it hurts too much to talk to him if you can't have him as more then a friend. Then hang up the phone. (You have to do the takeaway after giving him the go signal to get him off his ass and after yours. I didn't make these rules, I just recognize them.) I'm not a fan of ultimatums but in this case it might work for you.

***I thought it was discouraged to give INtJ ultimatums? I thought I shouldn't try stunts or manipulation because they will just walk away?

In any case, he said previous women he's slept with get feelings and end it, and he thinks that's a shame that people can't have a friendship. I think if I pulled a stunt, he would just shrug his shoulders like he did with the other women, not understand the emotional reaction, and he would think I'm wishy-washy b/c at this point we've become very good friends. I think if I went hysterical on him like that he would just go "huh? Does not compute." And walk away.

Any feedback if ultimatums would work on you INTJ's?

---------- Post added 07-08-2012 at 05:06 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He's renting a milk cow instead of buying it. If you are okay with this arrangement quit complaining. If you are not, then stop it.

Not complaining at all about being his friend. We only had sex that one day, and now, months later, he is planning this vacation and buying the plane ticket without even knowing I was planning on sleeping with him on the trip. He was surprised.

Question being: would an INTJ male spend every weekend with a woman and just want to be friends? I mean, truly friends? Because he talks to me more than just about anyone else he knows, and this trip was not based on assumption of sex, maybe I shouldn't even have mentioned it. The only reason I mentioned the sex part is to say, this man has established he is attracted. And that he likes many other qualities. So how does an INTJ pick a girlfriend then? If you're attracted to a woman, and you have lots of platonic fun in her presence, but not ready for commitment to her exclusively, is there any chance an INTJ would be committed to her later?

[Autumnleaf]

Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

***I thought it was discouraged to give INtJ ultimatums? I thought I shouldn't try stunts or manipulation because they will just walk away? In any case, he said previous women he's slept with get feelings and end it, and he thinks that's a shame that people can't have a friendship. I think if I pulled a stunt, he would just shrug his shoulders like he did with the other women, not understand the emotional reaction, and he would think I'm wishy-washy b/c at this point we've become very good friends. I think if I went hysterical on him like that he would just go "huh? Does not compute." And walk away. Any feedback if ultimatums would work on you INTJ's?

Forget him for a moment. What about you? He is doing what works for him and he will keep doing it until it stops working. If you want to change how he treats you then you have to respond differently to him. Do you want him to have an undefined sexual relationship with you or do you want something else. Are you willing to settle for less? Hint: you shouldn't be.

---------- Post added 07-08-2012 at 08:12 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Not complaining at all about being his friend. We only had sex that one day, and now, months later, he is planning this vacation and buying the plane ticket without even knowing I was planning on sleeping with him on the trip. He was surprised. Question being: would an INTJ male spend every weekend with a woman and just want to be friends? I mean, truly friends? Because he talks to me more than just about anyone else he knows, and this trip was not based on assumption of sex, maybe I shouldn't even have mentioned it. The only reason I mentioned the sex part is to say, this man has established he is attracted. And that he likes many other qualities. So how does an INTJ pick a girlfriend then? If you're attracted to a woman, and you have lots of platonic fun in her presence, but not ready for commitment to her exclusively, is there any chance an INTJ would be committed to her later?

Sure there is a chance. There is also a chance that things will go on as they are indefinitely.

As for how a man picks a girlfriend. People want what they cannot have. If you want him to move toward you then you have to step back away from him. That is how the dance of love works.

[Tejeira]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Forget him for a moment. What about you? He is doing what works for him and he will keep doing it until it stops working. If you want to change how he treats you then you have to respond differently to him. Do you want him to have an undefined sexual relationship with you or do you want something else. Are you willing to settle for less? Hint: you shouldn't be.

This is a good question. The last five months have been friendship, we only slept together that one time. So this time the situation is a defined platonic friendship, I am the one who said "we're probably going to have sex on this vacation and then I am going to go right back to the way I was before" so I started that, and that part I'm okay with.

Has this worked for you? I am hesitant to employ an ultimatum because at this point it is just a friendship and he'll probably he like "what's her problem? No one told her to have feelings for me." You see what I mean? He is not leading me on in any way. I just like his personality very much and want to kiss him and bite him and make him all mine. lol. I am fine around him, it doesn't break my heart or anything, I just like him. And my question to the INTJ's.....if you were this guy, would you ever like the girl back in the scenario?

---------- Post added 07-08-2012 at 05:18 PM ----------

	Sure there is a chance. There is also a chance that things will go on as they are indefinitely. As for how a man picks a girlfriend. People want what they cannot have. If you want him to move toward you then you have to step back away from him. That is how the dance of love works.

Now this is advice I can employ, I know how to do this. I'm comfortable with stepping back, because I wouldn't be ruining the friendship, just allowing him to discern if he does have the capacity to like me. My concern with the ultimatum is losing both the friend and the chance for a relationship. Since we are just friends currently, who only slept together once, the ultimatum would make him think I'm obsessed with him vs. stepping back might make him realize he truly enjoys my company more than he currently thinks. Thank you for his advice. I appreciate your help!

[Autumnleaf]

Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Now this is advice I can employ, I know how to do this. I'm comfortable with stepping back, because I wouldn't be ruining the friendship, just allowing him to discern if he does have the capacity to like me. My concern with the ultimatum is losing both the friend and the chance for a relationship. Since we are just friends currently, who only slept together once, the ultimatum would make him think I'm obsessed with him vs. stepping back might make him realize he truly enjoys my company more than he currently thinks. Thank you for his advice. I appreciate your help!

Part of the ultimatum involved clearly letting him know you are interested. If he doesn't know that now then you moving away might be misconstrued by him as you needing space or something else which may or may not work out well for you.

[Zsych]

I think the refusing sex might have been seen as a rejection, or as proof that the actual strength of the connection isn't high enough. INTJ are emotionally guarded. Sure he may still like you and feel attracted to you, but I think him setting you up with somebody else almost immediately after you sorta rejected him was him detaching himself and getting into an alternate relationship with you where there's virtually no chance that he would get hurt.

I think the tone of the relationship has likely been changed by months of you guys not being sexual and even if he wants you, he likely doesn't let himself want you, and in a way he's showing you that he may want you but he doesn't need you. And if you walked out of his life, he'd be a little bummed but he'd handle it.

As AutumnLeaf says, tell him you really do like him and really do want a relationship with him, again. Tell him that you were maybe overthinking it because it was happening faster than you expected but that didn't really change how you feel. And see how it goes.

I think you just threw up walls prematurely and he threw up walls in response.

[Tejeira]

Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think the refusing sex might have been seen as a rejection, or as proof that the actual strength of the connection isn't high enough. INTJ are emotionally guarded. Sure he may still like you and feel attracted to you, but I think him setting you up with somebody else almost immediately after you sorta rejected him was him detaching himself and getting into an alternate relationship with you where there's virtually no chance that he would get hurt. I think the tone of the relationship has likely been changed by months of you guys not being sexual and even if he wants you, he likely doesn't let himself want you, and in a way he's showing you that he may want you but he doesn't need you. And if you walked out of his life, he'd be a little bummed but he'd handle it. As AutumnLeaf says, tell him you really do like him and really do want a relationship with him, again. Tell him that you were maybe overthinking it because it was happening faster than you expected but that didn't really change how you feel. And see how it goes. I think you just threw up walls prematurely and he threw up walls in response.

Thank you, this is great insight into the mind of an INTJ male. I would never think of this stuff. You are probably right that he felt rejected (no matter the valid reasons I had to take it slow) I think he was very confused and started looking for reasons to back away. And then the immediate set-up with his friend, but he was always there! I was not interested in his friend whatsoever. About a week ago he finally asked why I never went out with his friend. I said, "Can you not tell? I went out with you originally because YOU'RE my type. Not him." He did make a comment that I should not wait for a guy to chase me, but I should chase guys because it's the 21st century. I wonder if this was a hint to chase him? I do compliment him and try to show him I think highly of him. He does know I find him very attractive as well. I haven't gone so far as to pointedly say, "look silly, it's clear you like spending your time with me. and it's clear you are attracted to me. why are you not dating me?" As for now, there is also the fact he wants to sleep with a few more women before he gets married, and he's planning on picking a wife in the next year. My friends say, when he calls you, go out, and they think he'll eventually want something more with me. I do not plan on walking out of his life. I told him I adore him and now that I know his mind better, I trust him more and respect his opinions and decisions.

You are probably right, I put up walls early (I got scared!) and he put walls back up (he got scared!) Now I just want to be around so he doesn't fall in love with someone else. I want to be that person.

---------- Post added 07-08-2012 at 06:20 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Part of the ultimatum involved clearly letting him know you are interested. If he doesn't know that now then you moving away might be misconstrued by him as you needing space or something else which may or may not work out well for you.

Okay now I understand the rationale. So basically, be very direct with INTJ's? Don't be the girl that fades away and expects to be chased.......let the man know you are leaving and THEN he will chase! I will just play it cool for the next two months until we go on this trip, there will be six of us, and then when we return (whether I do engage in sexual intercourse or not), then that will be the ideal time to have this more serious discussion and ultimatum. Because I have to respect that he needed time to get to know me, and at that point, he will have had six months of getting to know my values, ideals, true personality, behavior in various situations, loyalty, etc. And then I can walk away knowing I DID try.

[Autumnleaf]

Be direct and clear about what you want. Ask him if he can be that person or if you should look elsewhere for it. If you want to be like a used car salesman tell him some guy has been trying to chat you up but you wanted to tell your friend how you really feel because you like him better than the other guy.

[Zsych]

I was thinking about it, and I'm not sure that an INTJ doing the chasing is a good thing. You have to force the more hard to get person to open up and make them trust you.

[peppersasen]

	Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I guess I need to find a real boyfriend.

what?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


---------- Post added 07-09-2012 at 03:45 AM ----------

this thread is confusing. or maybe i'm just THAT ditzy...

[Tejeira]

	Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was thinking about it, and I'm not sure that an INTJ doing the chasing is a good thing. You have to force the more hard to get person to open up and make them trust you.

That is essentially why I think he told me that. He knows I am a "Rules" girl historically, and have always expected the man to "court" in a very traditional way. I think in a way, he is trying to "bend" me a little to his will, simply because he treats me as more than a friend, even though he was the one to make the decision to "be friends in a chill and platonic way".

Question: Do INTJ's actually want to be loved? I ask because it should be obvious to him now that I have the capacity to love him. He has slowly opened up more over the past few months, and he finally admitted at dinner on Tuesday that he was with his ex for eight years, not five years, and he misses the comfort level they had. He said they were more like friends, not alot of sizzle, but he misses that "chill" vibe he had with someone and he desperately wants it but feels like it doesn't exist anymore. I'm like, "hey yoohoo, over here!!! wtf? lol." I understand where he's coming from though, when you are lovesick it doesn't matter if Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie walked up to you, you'd just be like, "humph" and walk away. The good part is I got him to admit he was with her eight years, and he hasn't had a decent relationship since then, not even one more than 3-4 months.

[mieu]

Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This guy is doing his own thing......just not sure what's in it for him to keep me around? If he thinks he doesn't like me so much, how come he keeps putting me into his life? How come if I don't email him for days he will seek me out? How come he asks very personal questions? If this man doesn't care about me, why does he act like he kind-of does? All my friends love the way he is around me, they think he's attentive to me, his body language is towards me (and my friends are pretty and he find them attractive), and they think he likes me more. They think he's hyper-sexual and out of touch with his feelings. Should I waste one second of time on this guy? Or is he strictly just a friend?

It doesn't really seem that difficult. You didn't want sex without monogamy, and since he doesn't want monogamy he stopped pushing for sex and basically said that he would rather keep things platonic than try to pressure you into into it (knowing you expected monogamy in return). It doesn't sound like he was 'butthurt by rejection' at all. He obviously knows what a mess it is getting sexually involved with someone who has different wants and needs, and he established his boundaries immediately while respecting yours and allowing you to make the decision to have sex on your own.

He enjoys your company and he just wants sex. I don't see how he can make it any clearer than that. If you fear emotional attachment and hurt, then I'd stay platonic, but it doesn't seem to be tearing you up, so just have fun with it!

[Tejeira]

	Originally Posted by peppersasen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	what? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ---------- Post added 07-09-2012 at 03:45 AM ---------- this thread is confusing. or maybe i'm just THAT ditzy...

I was just saying "maybe I need to find a real boyfriend" since this man is not pursuing in the traditional courtship way, not is he offering up monogamy anytime soon.

---------- Post added 07-08-2012 at 06:53 PM ----------

Originally Posted by mieu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It doesn't really seem that difficult. You didn't want sex without monogamy, and since he doesn't want monogamy he stopped pushing for sex and basically said that he would rather keep things platonic than try to pressure you into into it (knowing you expected monogamy in return). He enjoys your company and he just wants sex. I don't see how he can make it any clearer than that. If you fear emotional attachment and hurt, then I'd stay platonic, but it doesn't seem to be tearing you up, so just have fun with it!

Yes that's exactly right! My question to the INTJ's out there......this guy plans on getting married in three years. He is searching for a wife. How can I increase my odds of being factored in, and move back to a place of dating so we can at least try, and I bet he'd be surprised with how easy we get along on a daily basis. His two main concerns are that I'm too upbeat and he's too serious on a daily basis---and for now, he wants to sleep with a few more women before he gets married. How can I help my chances in the interim and not get banished from his INTJ world?

---------- Post added 07-08-2012 at 06:55 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Be direct and clear about what you want. Ask him if he can be that person or if you should look elsewhere for it. If you want to be like a used car salesman tell him some guy has been trying to chat you up but you wanted to tell your friend how you really feel because you like him better than the other guy.

This is good advice. I can handle doing this. I guess the worst that can happen is we just stay friends? As an INTJ male, would you stay friends with a woman who wanted more from you?

[Autumnleaf]

Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That is essentially why I think he told me that. He knows I am a "Rules" girl historically, and have always expected the man to "court" in a very traditional way. I think in a way, he is trying to "bend" me a little to his will, simply because he treats me as more than a friend, even though he was the one to make the decision to "be friends in a chill and platonic way". Question: Do INTJ's actually want to be loved? I ask because it should be obvious to him now that I have the capacity to love him. He has slowly opened up more over the past few months, and he finally admitted at dinner on Tuesday that he was with his ex for eight years, not five years, and he misses the comfort level they had. He said they were more like friends, not alot of sizzle, but he misses that "chill" vibe he had with someone and he desperately wants it but feels like it doesn't exist anymore. I'm like, "hey yoohoo, over here!!! wtf? lol." I understand where he's coming from though, when you are lovesick it doesn't matter if Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie walked up to you, you'd just be like, "humph" and walk away. The good part is I got him to admit he was with her eight years, and he hasn't had a decent relationship since then, not even one more than 3-4 months.

I think you are thinking too hard about this.

In a fight there are many options a trained fighter can use to win. There are fancy jumping kicks. Spin kicks. etc... The most effective techniques are often the simplest. Sometimes a punch in the nose gets the job done.

What if you just had a conversation with him like usual and you slipped into it, "I've thought about it and I think we should start being more than friends if that seems okay with you." Then kiss him.

If you take the lead you can probably win this without much fuss. If you try to get him to act out of character, then you are likely to encounter all sorts of resistance. A bull shitter will tell you all the right things to get you to have sex. An honest guy who likes being around you might not act that way.

[Tejeira]

Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think you are thinking too hard about this. In a fight there are many options a trained fighter can use to win. There are fancy jumping kicks. Spin kicks. etc... The most effective techniques are often the simplest. Sometimes a punch in the nose gets the job done. What if you just had a conversation with him like usual and you slipped into it, "I've thought about it and I think we should start being more than friends if that seems okay with you." Then kiss him. If you take the lead you can probably win this without much fuss. If you try to get him to act out of character, then you are likely to encounter all sorts of resistance. A bull shitter will tell you all the right things to get you to have sex. An honest guy who likes being around you might not act that way.

this is awesome! I would not think of having the nerve to do that, but maybe I'll try! I will work on K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, stupid) Okay will post what happens
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[Zsych]

I think most people would like to be loved. Many don't let themselves find love because they won't open up enough by themselves and the other person may not put in the effort to force them out of their shell.

I think you accidentally friend-zoned yourself... Getting the pace right can be a bit hard. I'm not completely sure about this but I think that for many INTs the expected speed of progression may be unrealistically high. Still, it might be worth it to say that you formally do want to try at a relationship again. Where you should be willing to walk away... you should also be willing to go in with a positive and decisive attitude and not pull away at the first sign that he may not be open to it (since his walls may take a bit to come down)

Edit: Or what Autumnleaf said
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[mieu]

Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yes that's exactly right! My question to the INTJ's out there......this guy plans on getting married in three years. He is searching for a wife. How can I increase my odds of being factored in, and move back to a place of dating so we can at least try, and I bet he'd be surprised with how easy we get along on a daily basis. His two main concerns are that I'm too upbeat and he's too serious on a daily basis---and for now, he wants to sleep with a few more women before he gets married. How can I help my chances in the interim and not get banished from his INTJ world?

I'd never advocate 'waiting around' for anyone. Just be yourself and have fun. Live your life, no matter where it takes you. If he thinks you might be the one, he will come to you if he feels like you're drifting too far away. You can't force things like this, and you should not sacrifice your time for someone who hasn't given you a single inkling that he is willing to commit.

I will say this...how long does he plan to 'sleep around' before getting down to the business of getting to know a woman within the context of a relationship? Three years isn't a whole lot of time...

[v1fan]

No intj wants drama and all of this is drama.

You confess to starting or at least allowing/facilitating the the storm.

Best of luck with the poor bastard.