[Paji eh Wong]

I think the historical focus on learning Latin has delayed the development of more effective language learning methods.

I've never had success with grammar or classrooms, but do much better in the real world. I think most people are the same way. 1 hour in the real world equals 10 hours of the classroom.

I think Latin classes, with a focus on grammar and the necessity of classroom learning, is a pretty crappy model for learning languages.

[sed0007]

My Latin helped me to quickly decide to flee the jurisdiction upon receiving a 'subpoena'...


I knew instantly that, they had me by the balls.

[ModernLit]

	Originally Posted by Imperator To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Latin is a dead language, as dead as dead can be. First it killed the Romans, now it's killing me. Time, money, interest, and novelty pushed Latin out of the classrooms. There's a bit of a resurgence though, and I believe some parts of the country are still experiencing a shortage of qualified Latin teachers.

nice little ditty there.

i took two years of latin and it's true that it's hard to find a good teacher. my first year, we were sort of left to run amok for half the time. there would be an assignment that some people would or would not do, and i remember half the class copying the other half of the class's work. teacher had absolutely no authority, but he took the people who actually did work seriously
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[peppersasen]

	Originally Posted by Zarkai To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What happened, why do people not see the importance of this!?

all the Latin speakers suddenly decided they wanted people to take them seriously. you know the saying:

	Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses. [ To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ]

so they stopped speaking. and it became a dead language. the end.

[zibber]

Originally Posted by Eyedears To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It's called "relevance," a Red Diaper Doper Baby-induced obsession in "education" that started in the very early '70's. (It ruined my own college education, which began in '73.) Before they turned everything inside-out & upside-down, education was understood to be a matter of rigor (not "fun," not "entertaining," etc.). In my own field (foreign language education) the end result was "proficiency" learning, as opposed to "achievement" learning: "As long as the student can get his meaning across, why quibble about grammar and pronunciation?" Behold, the Ebonification of language. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Most of that is only mildly discomforting, until you reach the "Ebonification" bit.

Why make it a color-based matter?

[mieu]

Six years of latin. Was my favorite subject. I was told by a university professor that I "got it" and that I possessed "kunstprosa," after being able to translate a latin text by sight aloud in english, with style. Neat parlor trick, unfortunately it couldn't pay my bills, so I majored in computer science.

That's all there is to it.

[mormeguil]

It's cute to learn about latin. But honestly it's still more usefull to learn the history of how enligh came to be with linguistics. Or a paleonthology class, or psychology class.

There is a wealth of subject better suited to a rounded and strong education then latin. You could learn french and still get knowledge of a latin langage.

[Imperator]

	Originally Posted by Monte314 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Imperator is the Forum expert; presumably he will show up eventually to make a definitive statement.

Actually, I'm a Hellenist, and if we're getting really picky, a historian, rather than a philologist. Although I'll be well trained in history, philology, and archaeology at the program I'm doing...because I can.
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	Originally Posted by Subgenius To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yeah. That's so untrue it's laughable.

Advanced degrees in French, Spanish, and Italian may require reading proficiency in Latin. A lot of the good universities require at least minimal coursework in Latin.


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	Originally Posted by sed0007 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My Latin helped me to quickly decide to flee the jurisdiction upon receiving a 'subpoena'... I knew instantly that, they had me by the balls.

I still love that joke.

[stealthfighter]

I think most people have simply lost appetite for learning and appreciating the classics despite the fact that they are most timeless lessons in the academia. I for one know very little about it but have gained a very profound insight into the significance of classical antiquity due to my job of teaching World Literature. I wouldn't exactly refer to Latin as a dead language because so many fields of study are still relying on it when it comes to illustrating particular concepts.

[darniem]

Yeah...I always here the "it's a dead language" line and think "damn, for a dead language, sure as hell is used a lot."

[alt lit]

If you pursue a well-rounded education, basic to intermediate Latin is still considered essential.

[Hariar]

I am currently trying to learn as many languages as I can, voluntarily, and Latin is far down on my list because

a) it is Indo-European, just like my native tongue
b) it is written with an alphabet that I already know (or indeed, it is written with an alphabet
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)
c) it is dead, so:

1. It has no native speakers
2. I can never travel to place where it is spoken and converse in the language
3. I cannot be surrounded by people talking the language in normal settings
4. I cannot read normal publications in it; like e.g. a random online newspaper; nor watch national TV (having a national TV channel in a non-Indo-European language streamed on my ear as I write this)

I'll give it a huge plus for being a grammatically complicated language and preserving a lot of the characteristics that the Indo-European ancestor languages are thought to have had. But I don't see why it should be taught in schools, a living language has more relevance.

[deconspire]

I studied it for a few years in school, found it to have more ebb and flow than anything i'd ever witnessed linguistically. All musicians, writers, and visual artists should study it. But i also could have spent all that time becoming fluent in spanish, which, as an american, would have been more useful all considering.

[Bia]

	Originally Posted by Imperator To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Latin is a dead language, as dead as dead can be. First it killed the Romans, now it's killing me.

The problem is that it is taught as a dead language.
Any language is a dead one within the classroom walls, but I was taught Latin in a completely different way from the way I was taught French, and that has made all the difference.
It was a menmonic excercise and no one ever expected me to actually attempt reading any of the Latin classics.

[Legatus]

	Originally Posted by alt lit To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If you pursue a well-rounded education, basic to intermediate Latin is still considered essential.

Hardly.

[alt lit]

	Originally Posted by Legatus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hardly.

Insightful.

[mieu]

	Originally Posted by Bia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The problem is that it is taught as a dead language. Any language is a dead one within the classroom walls, but I was taught Latin in a completely different way from the way I was taught French, and that has made all the difference. It was a menmonic excercise and no one ever expected me to actually attempt reading any of the Latin classics.

You were in a pretty shitty class. We spent a year and a half learning grammar, and then we translated In Catilinam, the Aeneid, the Satyricon, Pro Archia, and a few others...all with the straight latin texts that had a few footnote annotations.

[Bia]

	Originally Posted by mieu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You were in a pretty shitty class.

Actually, it was a rather good one, for what it was designed for.
Having us live in fear of the teacher, that is.

[Imperator]

	Originally Posted by Bia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The problem is that it is taught as a dead language. Any language is a dead one within the classroom walls, but I was taught Latin in a completely different way from the way I was taught French, and that has made all the difference. It was a menmonic excercise and no one ever expected me to actually attempt reading any of the Latin classics.

You mean you never had to take tests on prepared passages or a sight exam?
What did you read in class?

If nobody ever expected you to actually attempt reading any of the Latin classics, I don't see how it was a Latin class....

[Analyze]

	Originally Posted by alt lit To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If you pursue a well-rounded education, basic to intermediate Latin is still considered essential.

Being well rounded, a concept I think is outdated, doesn't include learning dead languages. Latin won't help most people do anything productive. I could agree if you said learning a language was essential. Latin would be very low on my languages to learn list though.

[alt lit]

	Originally Posted by Analyze To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Being well rounded, a concept I think is outdated, doesn't include learning dead languages. Latin won't help most people do anything productive. I could agree if you said learning a language was essential. Latin would be very low on my languages to learn list though.

I think if you had even a marginal understanding of linguistics and language acquisition, then you wouldn't think such a thing.

I also think the idea of not being well-rounded is outdated, considering the amount of information across all subjects available to anyone (in a developed country) who has a pulse and a bare-minimal level of curiosity.

[JC22]

Life->Procreation->Death


Is the way of all things.

[Legatus]

	Originally Posted by alt lit To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Insightful.

Is it useful? Most certainly.
Is it essential? No.

[Analyze]

	Originally Posted by alt lit To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think if you had even a marginal understanding of linguistics and language acquisition, then you wouldn't think such a thing. I also think the idea of not being well-rounded is outdated, considering the amount of information across all subjects available to anyone (in a developed country) who has a pulse and a bare-minimal level of curiosity.

If you have a very specific purpose within the context of the fields of history or linguistics then Latin is undoubtedly useful. A majority of people have no useful reason to learn Latin. I can't think of many professions off of the top of my head where knowledge of Latin is essential to preforming well.

[mieu]

	Originally Posted by Bia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Actually, it was a rather good one, for what it was designed for. Having us live in fear of the teacher, that is.

I'm sorry it was so boring :[ Who wants to learn a language and not actually use it?