[Nicole1975]

	Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Was he an ENTP?

I don't ask guys if they know their Myers-Briggs when I'm giving them the cold shoulder escalating to being mean to them.

---------- Post added 06-19-2012 at 03:43 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Esrevinu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Of a zero? Yes, it is certainly one of their many appeals. People of all shapes and sizes have various physical appeals. Its sexist? The different ways 2 consenting adults enjoy themselves is sexist? Variety is nice, I get the feeling you think your own belief structure represents the way all women feel. Thats some tunnel vision right there! I wouldn't tell you to go away because you're a size ten. If your personality is reflected in person as much as it is on this forum, I would tell you to go away based on that! But then again I understand that I don't speak for all men. So you will most certainly find someone eventually. Edit: So you will most certainly find someone eventually (that is not a "creepy foreigner who can't speak english well")

Yeah, because so many men complain that they like big boobs but when there's a girl with big boobs it's "you're fat. I can't see your rib cage well enough." All you men want like a porn star or something if you go by what's on the forum.... like some guy who wants his girlfriends to sleep in nice cloths because he doesn't get that the only women who would do that are slobs.... but he doesn't want a slob.

[Dru]

	Originally Posted by ThingInItsSelf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The conversation that boggles my minde and happens too often: Guy: "Heeeey, so how about you and me look at getting to know each other better?" Me: "I'm flattered but I have a boy friend, we have been together for years" Guy: "Thats cool ... he doesn't have to know" .... really?

on the other hand, you could be appreciative that they're being straightforward about what kind of person they are.

[Nicole1975]

Well part of the problem is that I think most men who do this would be ESTX types... maybe even ESFX..... Therein lies the problem that they wouldn't be on this forum to give their opinion.

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by Nicole1975 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	All you men want like a porn star or something if you go by what's on the forum.... like some guy who wants his girlfriends to sleep in nice cloths because he doesn't get that the only women who would do that are slobs.... but he doesn't want a slob.

If even one person of any gender could stop making ridiculous generalizations to back up their emotional biases... discussion would probably greatly improve.

[Ender]

The topic reminds me of this video:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Some people just can't take a hint.

[MyotisLucifugus]

It reminds me of that moron
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

[UltraIncredible]

	Originally Posted by deconspire To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This always seems to emphatically teach people what NO means. ( Show Spoiler ) To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Slow clap that gives way to standing ovation]

[Nicole1975]

	Originally Posted by Ender To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The topic reminds me of this video: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Some people just can't take a hint.

Yeah, I've seen that before. I think I even saw it when it premiered on TV.

[SeverusSin]

	Originally Posted by deconspire To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This always seems to emphatically teach people what NO means. ( Show Spoiler ) To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'll be using that on the next female that tries to seduce me if she continues to touch me seductively after I've explicitly said "No". Accompanied by "No, I don't want your pussy" I can't wait! :D

As guys to avoid getting a point where a chick is turning one down, ensure the interaction dynamic isn't a case of you pursuing her. Makes all that stuff irrelevant for us. But yes, if you find yourself pursuing her and she refuses, that's her business, take the hint and use your time well placed elsewhere, if you truly want to have sex that badly.

[zibber]

	Originally Posted by Ender To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The topic reminds me of this video: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Some people just can't take a hint.

Right before I clicked it, this went through my head.

"Can I get yo number?"

Nice
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.

[konigsberg]

	“If you say ‘no,’ and the other person keeps talking, ask yourself ‘Why is this person trying to manipulate me?’”

That's from "The Gift of fear".

If you don't want something, just say it. There's not point lying to someone just so you don't hurt their feelings based on the romantic advances they think they're having towards you, if you don't cut them off immediately they're going to keep being persistant.

So on a generalized manner, for guys: There's the girl who says no and that's what she wants. Easy, isn't it? Leave her alone. Girl who says 'no' because she is insecure of saying yes/no. Leave her alone, give her some time, if she's interested enough she'll come back to find you. Otherwise, walk away from her. Why would you want someone who's unsure of what they want anyway? Then there's the girl who says no but she's only playing hard to get. Leave her alone. Why would you want someone who's not straight-forward, specially being an INTJ?

Be direct on what you mean, if the guy can't take a no for an answer just tell him. If he, or she makes you uncomfortable with her/his advances, tell them. A sane person would get it. And, well, if they don't they're probably unhealthy and surely you don't want anything to do with them.

There's a blog that helped me figure out that a friend of mine has been manipulating me into 'being responsible for the feelings I made him have' when I didn't ask for them in first place. A really close friend he was... I'll post the links when I have permission to? /newbie

[holdyourhead]

People will continue using persistence as a tool for getting what they want from other people, for as long as there are a selection of said other people who are either so flakey that they eventually give in, or like to "play" hard to get, or are not honest about their intentions or desires, or simply don't really know what they want and change their mind easily.

So, this kind of persistent determination is here to stay. Not just from men, women too. And children getting their way with their parents*. When people succeed in their objectives using a given technique, they will keep using it. It might not work with everyone, but they will damn well try it if they see nothing wrong with using it. Determination in itself is quite a good quality, but its application is the issue here.



* I did this myself as child. I would argue the hell out of everything with relentless pressure, using whatever I could, whether using intelligence and constantly different angles, or simply emotional blackmail, to wear my parents down. And you know what? It worked. I would always get my way. They were weak and too emotional, and my success only taught me to keep doing it in increasingly ridiculous doses, and made me into a self-centred bastard. My life's path eventually put a crashing end to all of this behaviour for me, but it's not hard to see why some people continue to use it throughout their lives when other people are so emotionally weak and they learnt how to exploit this at some point without consequence.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Nicole1975 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was just thinking about how this has happened to me... OMG TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many times! I tell a guy "no" and he starts with like "why not?" and he sits there and argues with me. Dude, this will NEVER ever get anywhere with me. I'd like thoughts and experiences. Anyone know of a scenario where it worked? Maybe it works on those ditzy bimbo types?

I think it largely comes back to how you tell him no. If you've grown up in a culture where men are dominant, you can subconsciously send cues that you're somewhat submissive and malleable, and men will view these cues as sending the, "I need to not think of myself as a slut, help me have sex with you without having bad feelings about it" message.

As much as I believe that no means no, alot of women play the "No means maybe" game where they want the guy to be persistent and try to change their no to yes, and guys get confused about where we fall on this answer.

So, my advice would be to practice your refusal skills with a male friend or brother, and find a way of communicating no that will be received much more firmly.

I kind of come across as soft and flirty at first meeting, but if pushed, can become pretty assertive, and there is never a mistake in a guy's mind that I mean no at that point. You need to work on communicating something just slightly short of "raging bitch from hell who will cut off your penis if you keep pestering her."

Beyond that...if a guy asks more than once or brings up something that is over the line, just pick up your purse and leave. Get over any concerns you might have about being rude. Asking more than once is extremely rude and shouldn't be tolerated.

[Daniel86]

	Originally Posted by Nicole1975 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was just thinking about how this has happened to me... OMG TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many times! I tell a guy "no" and he starts with like "why not?" and he sits there and argues with me. Dude, this will NEVER ever get anywhere with me. I'd like thoughts and experiences. Anyone know of a scenario where it worked? Maybe it works on those ditzy bimbo types?

He needs to improve his skills at reading non-verbal communication and chemistry. Or maybe your body language is telling him yes? One or the other is the problem.

Because as a man I expect a girl to say no at first, otherwise she will appear too easy. even the girls I dated who were most quick to screw with me, even on a first date, started off by pretending to be disinterest, and then telling me very clearly "I don't do that"...and then...you see the reality of them.

But maybe your culture is different I can only talk from my experience.

The Chilean President Sebastian Piñera got into trouble for telling this joke, which I liked:

What is the difference between a politican and a lady?

If a politician says "yes" he means "maybe", if he says "maybe" he means "no", and if he says "no" he is not a politician.

If a lady says "no" she means "maybe", if she says "maybe" she means yes",a nd if she says "yes" she is not a lady.

XD

[teri]

	Originally Posted by Muse To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What if, after talking in public upon first meeting for 20minutes or so (and it goes pretty well), he or you has to go and asks if you would like to meet up for coffee sometime to talk more?

It is possible, depending on the situation, that is would say yes. Truthfully, though, I would probably still initially say no because when talking, I am usually caught up in the topic and not really looking at the conversation as "am I attracted?" ( I was in a sixteen yr relationship, so I am used to talking with guys about business or whatever and they never hit on me or became flirtatious. Also, I work in sales and as a buyer, so I am always thinking business, not on the lookout for a date or anything). Therefore, my initial response would probably be no, just because i am usually caught off guard and need time to think it over and consider everything first.

[Nicole1975]

Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think it largely comes back to how you tell him no. If you've grown up in a culture where men are dominant, you can subconsciously send cues that you're somewhat submissive and malleable, and men will view these cues as sending the, "I need to not think of myself as a slut, help me have sex with you without having bad feelings about it" message. As much as I believe that no means no, alot of women play the "No means maybe" game where they want the guy to be persistent and try to change their no to yes, and guys get confused about where we fall on this answer. So, my advice would be to practice your refusal skills with a male friend or brother, and find a way of communicating no that will be received much more firmly. I kind of come across as soft and flirty at first meeting, but if pushed, can become pretty assertive, and there is never a mistake in a guy's mind that I mean no at that point. You need to work on communicating something just slightly short of "raging bitch from hell who will cut off your penis if you keep pestering her." Beyond that...if a guy asks more than once or brings up something that is over the line, just pick up your purse and leave. Get over any concerns you might have about being rude. Asking more than once is extremely rude and shouldn't be tolerated.

No, it has nothing to do with how I send the message. I think some of these dirty old men just think they get what they want because they are men. Older women and men actually tell the men to chase us even if we say no. I've seen it and friends of mine have seen/heard it too.

[zibber]

Originally Posted by holdyourhead To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

People will continue using persistence as a tool for getting what they want from other people, for as long as there are a selection of said other people who are either so flakey that they eventually give in, or like to "play" hard to get, or are not honest about their intentions or desires, or simply don't really know what they want and change their mind easily. So, this kind of persistent determination is here to stay. Not just from men, women too. And children getting their way with their parents*. When people succeed in their objectives using a given technique, they will keep using it. It might not work with everyone, but they will damn well try it if they see nothing wrong with using it. Determination in itself is quite a good quality, but its application is the issue here. * I did this myself as child. I would argue the hell out of everything with relentless pressure, using whatever I could, whether using intelligence and constantly different angles, or simply emotional blackmail, to wear my parents down. And you know what? It worked. I would always get my way. They were weak and too emotional, and my success only taught me to keep doing it in increasingly ridiculous doses, and made me into a self-centred bastard. My life's path eventually put a crashing end to all of this behaviour for me, but it's not hard to see why some people continue to use it throughout their lives when other people are so emotionally weak and they learnt how to exploit this at some point without consequence.

"Emotionally weak" is a nice phrase to make it seem like the coerced people are partially culpable.

[Shadeylark]

it'd be nice to live in a world where everything was out in the open.

but guys, at least in America, are taught, so varying degrees, that its the "chase" that matters. there are also women who live to be chased as well.

there's a reason after all that it typically falls on the guy to setup and arrange an appropriate first date. more and more women are asking men out, but even in those cases it still tends to fall on the guy to be the initiator by setting up a good first date that will impress her enough that she'll want a second date.

and since some guys suck at reading non-verbal cues... can you really blame them for asking again?

[jammi]

Just move to a more INTx -friendly place.

[holdyourhead]

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	"Emotionally weak" is a nice phrase to make it seem like the coerced people are partially culpable.

I definitely wouldn't say it is their fault, but I do believe it's a pretty accurate descriptor. If you're emotionally/mentally strong, no-one can easily coerce you without physical force or threat (and that's a whole other matter). The relevance is that once someone has learnt that they can "get their way" with the weak-minded people who are easy to influence or wear down, they will continually seek them out and apply their routines provided that the arguer is perfectly willing to partake in this type of behaviour.

In many cases, I'd guess there probably is a strong link between these kinds of adults and learning the behaviour as a child with their parents...

[Marcus Septim]

Insistance is a tactic that works for men sometimes

And they can't know for sure,unless they insist
So they try anyway,what is there to lose?

Learn to deal with attraction girl! Some men will like you and you will not

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Nicole1975 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No, it has nothing to do with how I send the message. I think some of these dirty old men just think they get what they want because they are men. Older women and men actually tell the men to chase us even if we say no. I've seen it and friends of mine have seen/heard it too.

Then you really need to get more assertive and work on your bitch face.

[24601]

	Originally Posted by Nicole1975 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No, it has nothing to do with how I send the message. I think some of these dirty old men just think they get what they want because they are men. Older women and men actually tell the men to chase us even if we say no. I've seen it and friends of mine have seen/heard it too.

So you have a recurring problem with different men, where you are the only common denominator, but the problem can't be you.

I guarantee if you say the second time a person pesters you, "No, and don't ask me again," it will end it.

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by 24601 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So you have a recurring problem with different men, where you are the only common denominator, but the problem can't be you. I guarantee if you say the second time a person pesters you, "No, and don't ask me again," it will end it.

Nope. It's them. I found a few non-asshole guys to have LTRs with... but most were pushy fucking assholes. Point that blame cannon any way you'd like, but your powder's wet. Asshole guys are assholes.

[Shadeylark]

yea, assholes are assholes...

but if you're constantly going after the assholes then you can't place all the blame on them.

takes two to tango right?