[Distance]

Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yeah, it's all fine and dandy when a child rapist gets murdered, but this kind of stuff opens loopholes. DERP! Where do you draw the line on justifiable homicide? At raping a kid? At molesting a kid? At smacking a kid? At yelling at a kid? I don't know the details of the police investigation, but one thing for sure, the defendant isn't alive to have his day in court. As soon as people hear about child sex abuse their brains turn off and everything is justified.

How old is that girl in your avatar and why wouldn't your brain turn off when it comes to raping children?

[Frosted]

That is Fiona Apple in my avatar. She is 20 in that image. I didn't say my brain wouldn't turn off. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. Isn't there a reason we have courtrooms? If the news says someone did something that means they did it? I've made the paper before; I can tell you that what is said in the news is sometimes very different from what really happens. So does a 20 year old in my avatar make me a pedophile? Make a poll about it.

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How old is that girl in your avatar and why wouldn't your brain turn off when it comes to raping children?

[Distance]

Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That is Fiona Apple in my avatar. She is 20 in that image. I didn't say my brain wouldn't turn off. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. Isn't there a reason we have courtrooms? If the news says someone did something that means they did it? I've made the paper before; I can tell you that what is said in the news is sometimes very different from what really happens. So does a 20 year old in my avatar make me a pedophile? Make a poll about it.

She looks like she's twelve years old in that picture.

This is where I can't help throwing in parental experience. The strength of the parental instinct is overwhelming. Add in that the father of the child didn't plan to kill this man where it's an accidental death, where evidence of rape was found on the child, where there was an eyewitness who described the situation, should be sufficient evidence that this wasn't a premeditated murder.

But...

Once again...

Die, Motherfucker pedo-rapist, Die!

[John01]

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In my opinion life in prison is far worse than death. Which would you rather? I would have caved the guy's face in but not enough to kill him, to make sure he spends his life in jail.

So then, you really want the worst kind of suffering for the offender. Killing him is too merciful?

[Frosted]

	Originally Posted by John01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So then, you really want the worst kind of suffering for the offender. Killing him is too merciful?

If you really want an answer to your question I suggest reading the post you quoted.

[John01]

I know the answer. Did you know that?

[Distance]

*sniffs the air in thread*

Nope, not smelling moral high ground anywhere!

[Frosted]

	Originally Posted by John01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I know the answer. Did you know that?

Well being an agnostic who leans more towards atheism I tend to think that most likely there is no hell. So I think LIVING in prison is worse than being nonexistent.

[John01]

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well being an agnostic who leans more towards atheism I tend to think that most likely there is no hell. So I think LIVING in prison is worse than being nonexistent.

My point is this: At first you seemed to be implying that killing the offender without giving him a trial was unjust, and you even questioned the seriousness of child rape as compared to yelling at a child. This, to me, suggested you thought that killing the offender was unjust. But then you communicated that the real reason you would not have him killed straightway was so that he could endure a greater suffering in prison.

[Frosted]

Originally Posted by John01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My point is this: At first you seemed to be implying that killing the offender without giving him a trial was unjust, and you even questioned the seriousness of child rape as compared to yelling at a child. This, to me, suggested you thought that killing the offender was unjust. But then you communicated that the real reason you would not have him killed straightway was so that he could endure a greater suffering in prison.

You're not even making sense. I'm done here.

[John01]

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You're not even making sense. I'm done here.

Have a good weekend.

[leslissocool]

To the act of raping a 5 year old, defense is a natural consequence. The guy actually didn't mean to kill the man, displaying a great amount of self control and detachment from his feelings. He actually stopped when he was down, and called the ambulance.

My personal feelings would have gotten in the way, I would not have stopped hitting him until the bastard was dead. Putting aside animal instincts (We are animals, our babies can recognize us by smell there is no denying the instinct since it's a vital part of who we are) the difference lies in the fact that the guy committed a premeditated violent act (took the child to a deserted place) while the father reacted to such violent act. Action vs reaction, two different spectrums of behavior.

Difference between killing a guy who's raping a 5 year old and the coliseum? It's in history, they kidnapped people and threw them in a ring to die (it was not a form of punishment to Christians until WAYYY later). Sound a lot closer to what the rapist did than what the father or people who agree with his actions did and say.

[Zsych]

	Originally Posted by True Rune To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Justice is important, no doubt. He definitely deserved to die, but isn't that exactly why it is a waste of life?

Punishment in society typically serves as a deterrent to repeats of that type of behavior. Being horribly beaten to death likely serves the purpose better than "Was arrested... trial is going on for years... dude is sitting in jail for years... may be humanely put down a decade or so later..."

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Again, no courtroom.

The courtroom is just a construct that people came up with to deal with problems and provide stability. They are subject to human mistakes and create countless injustices also.

I think there would be a point to the much more civilized 'laws only' viewpoint, but that requires people to be more mature, and to really be raised and educated much better than a lot of people are.

	Originally Posted by SelfMadeBum To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The line has already been drawn. And I'm not supporting vengeance killing for its own sake. If, once his daughter was safe, the man chased the rapist and killed him, then that's a whole other matter.

It would still be fine. Having a bit of time to think before doing the right thing, is still doing the right thing.

Besides, at 23 - he's fairly young. The cut-off for 'Now you really have no excuse for being an idiot' should likely be at 30+

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well being an agnostic who leans more towards atheism I tend to think that most likely there is no hell. So I think LIVING in prison is worse than being nonexistent.

Prison really isn't that bad. Plus, for someone you're never really planning to let out - his learning anything or being punished means little. Its better that he be an obvious public example of why not to do this stuff.

[sadf]

Prison would have been worse for the pedo.
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[Frosted]

	Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Prison really isn't that bad. Plus, for someone you're never really planning to let out - his learning anything or being punished means little. Its better that he be an obvious public example of why not to do this stuff.

I've done county time. It is bad for a variety of reasons. Depends on the person I guess. For me, life in prison would be worse than death. From my own feelings on jail I think that jail time would be more of a deterrent than death. But I guess others here feel differently.

[Ambra]

Only read the OP.

Fuck yeah! Its about time the law protects someone reasonably.

[Kearley65]

	Originally Posted by Samia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That's why I am not sure. I don't know what I would do in that kind of situation. I don't know whether I would beat up the rapist or not. I'm just confused.

That is why I have no problem with it. I believe raping a innocent child that is unable to protect oneself from this type of attacker is 10 times worse than the father killing the rapist who is able to protect oneself. Most likely the rapist would have be murdered in jail for what he did. Prison populations do like people who go after children. They actually get hits put on them by other murders in jail, learned this when I went on a tour of the county jail for a government class. The prison guards do not even care about protecting them either because they figure they have it coming to them for what they have done. I also figure, do we as taxpayers want to pay taxes so this fuckin' scum can rot in jail for the rest of his life. He is better off dead cause I do not want to pay for his sorry ass to live.

[Frosted]

	Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Prison really isn't that bad. Plus, for someone you're never really planning to let out - his learning anything or being punished means little. Its better that he be an obvious public example of why not to do this stuff.

Where did you go? I want to hear about your prison experience and how it isn't that bad.

[Zsych]

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Where did you go? I want to hear about your prison experience and how it isn't that bad.

I don't do stuff I believe to be wrong. I generally know what I can tolerate and what I can dissociate from so that it doesn't matter.

I actually could tolerate it, although in theory, I do find imprisonment much more offensive than a clean death. Not more tolerable, but more offensive.

However, different experiences affect people differently. Its a different environment, and many people don't adapt to it in a way that makes them better suited for the world when they come out. In reality, I'd almost definitely come out worse... appreciating the personal growth opportunity - but worse.

[eagleseven]

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Where did you go? I want to hear about your prison experience and how it isn't that bad.

If prison is such a horrific experience, than why are our prisons overflowing to the point that California had to release 40k convicts to the streets? It seems that prison isn't working. Why?

TBH, the worst thing about prison is the other prisoners. You now need to learn to live with gangs consisting of the most hardened killers, which requires a whole different skillset from what helps you succeed on the outside.

Those same gangs make true rehabilitation nearly impossible. Granted, my information is all second-hand...never been to prison myself.

[Frosted]

Originally Posted by eagleseven To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

If prison is such a horrific experience, than why are our prisons overflowing to the point that California had to release 40k convicts to the streets? It seems that prison isn't working. Why? TBH, the worst thing about prison is the other prisoners. You now need to learn to live with gangs consisting of the most hardened killers, which requires a whole different skillset from what helps you succeed on the outside. Those same gangs make true rehabilitation nearly impossible. Granted, my information is all second-hand...never been to prison myself.

YEP. To the other stuff: our prisons are overflowing because our laws are a joke. Police state.

[deconspire]

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In my opinion life in prison is far worse than death. Which would you rather? I would have caved the guy's face in but not enough to kill him, to make sure he spends his life in jail.

It's not about making the guy suffer more. I'm not looking for "justice", and I'm not even gonna fuck around with the legal system at this point - I'm going to take it into my own hands. If you rape my kid, you pay with your life.

[INTelliJent]

E7 and Distance pretty much said what I was thinking as reading this thread.

As far as those referencing the need for the guy to stand in court, I would ask how that scenario would be played out?

Father sees man raping his daughter. Father leaves to go get a restraining tool to hopefully calmly subdue the man until the police arrive? Hopefully returning before the man finishes and strangles the girl, and then fleeing the scene?

Whoever referenced Occam's Razor for this against the charges that "The father might have just been using this to cover a murder/etc." was on the money, as was the mention of recidivism rates for sex offenders. Yes, people often "lose it" as soon as the term "child abuse" is mentioned, and this is a problem. That issue in wordsmithing ambiguity does not apply in this situation.

I'm against capital punishment, but not justifiable homicide. Justice cannot be entrusted to the state.

[stasis]

	Originally Posted by INTelliJent To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Justice cannot be entrusted to the state.

It clearly can't be entrusted to the mob either. What do we do?


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State corporates, industrial corporates, cultural corporates; they're all prone to the same brain-disengaged brute birdflock mindlessness. If we are reduced to a coinflip occurring in nihil space, rather than reason itself, Churchill may have been correct to channel Hobbes:

I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected.

[Vermillion]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Americans don't have any problem with the carnage they've caused in the Middle East: the drone strikes, bombing wedding parties, economic sanctions that indirectly killed 100s of thousands, the irradiation of entire regions with depleted uranium, the propping up of bloody apartheid states... Why do you think they'd cringe at the notion of "Texas justice"?

Point take. I just felt it needed to be pointed out though.

	Originally Posted by Kearley65 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Killing or doing serious damage to someone that is harming your young is a natural instinct all animals have. Just like a mamma bear protecting her cubs. Most of the time the bear would run away at the site of a human, but if a cub is present, she becomes a very, very dangerous animal that would attack without warning.

Close the thread guys, Steve Irwin has spoken. Case closed.
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	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Killing myself laughing at all the attempts to shame or leverage one's own superior high ground, at the expense of 'the savages'. Fortunately, I have no shame or inferiority complex as it relates to savaging a pedo-rapist in action. Die Motherfucker, Die.

	*sniffs the air in thread* Nope, not smelling moral high ground anywhere!

This isn't about shaming anyone or achieving a moral high ground. The fact that you think that it some how is says a lot about your mindset. Morality is subjective, this is about logic and the conflict between rule of law and vigilante "justice." This is about due process vs. savage retribution. This is about whether you want to live in an orderly society or something out of a Conan the Barbarian comic.

Since you seem to be in favor of people meting out their own "justice," here is a scenario for you. Let's say your child pisses off another kid at school, punches him in the face or something. Let's say that kid comes to school the next day and shoots your child. To the kid, that is justice, but what is it to you? Do you consider that justice? What would you do? Would you go and kill the kid in retribution for your child, your own form of "justice"? Or would you conveniently rely upon the law to handle it for you?

In short, you can't have it both ways. You can't conveniently cheer the death of a pedo-rapist yet be against someone taking their version of justice out on you or your family.

So what do you want? The rule of law, however flawed it may be? Or a world of savages spiraling into chaotic violence and endless retribution?

	Die, Motherfucker pedo-rapist, Die!

You chanting that reminds me of the "death to America" chants certain groups in the Middle East do. I suppose to them 9/11 was justice just as this pedo dying was justice to you. And just to clarify, because I'm sure you'll misunderstand, I'm not comparing these two situations to one another in terms of how heinous they were but rather in terms of the mindset that gives rise to savage brutality in the name of justice. I don't think you, and a lot of others here, too far off from them in terms of mindset.

	Originally Posted by eagleseven To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I doubt any of the people here claiming SAVAGES would behave any differently in the dad's shoes.

I doubt that you and the others cheering death in this thread really have the nad to actually beat someone to death in real life.
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Personally I completely understand what the dad did. I feel psychotic rage when someone pisses me off, let alone rapes my daughter but I control it. I will never be a slave to my emotions and primitive instincts. If I was, I'd either be dead or in jail right now, and lot of others would probably be dead too.

The fact of the matter is, we're all human. While we're still animals, even those of us who are on the lower end of the scale of cognitive development have the ability to choose reason and logic over brutal instinct. Instinct is no excuse, we all have violent instincts and we all reject them, some of us on a daily basis.

Ultimately, I don't blame the dad for what he did. Sure he went overboard, but he didn't mean to kill the guy after all. I do however blame those of you who would gleefully murder another human being when you have the choice not to and justify it with subjective notions of "justice" or by saying it is just instinct.

	And it is not barbaric to celebrate the death of an obviously evil man.

Evil is subjective. Radical Muslims think of all Americans as evil and see 9/11 as justice. Labeling a pedo-rapist as evil accomplishes nothing but reinforcing primitive/low cognitive modes of thinking. Leave that sort of rhetoric to Pat Robertson and Bill O'Reilly. The pedo was simply a problem that needed to be dealt with, and was. Although in a way that some of us here find unacceptable in a civilized society.

This isn't about "good" or "evil". This isn't about achieving a moral high ground or shaming those of you who are proudly puffing our your chests and claiming you could gladly kill a fellow human in cold blood. This is about the kind of world you want to live in and the kind of person you want to be.

One final thought. Since a lot of you seem to be okay with throwing the rule of law out the window, how would you feel if the father or mother of the pedo who was killed came seeking "justice" for his or her murdered son and killed the dad who beat him to death? Would you be okay with that justice as well?