[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by babsa To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And i will take note of your emotional inability to humor hypothetical situations that you do not agree with.

Why on earth should the idea that slavery is some kind of benevolent opportunity for women be humored on any intellectual level?

I suppose I take it as a given that sane human beings with functioning ethics would not engage in a behavior that they personally would find damaging if they were the victim of it for someone else's sexual gratification. This isn't emotionalism, it's an ethical framework called "utilitarianism."

Is also acceptable to abduct women and keep them in a shed behind your house to service you at-will, within your ethics? Or, would finding that to be criminal on multiple levels fall into the category of "emotionalism" in your world?

Let me put it on this: When someone proposes a theorized course of action in the public realm of ideas that involves extensive violations of people's basic human rights and liberties, they should be prepared for criticism to be directed at this idea. That's not emotionalism. That's civil discourse.

[peppersasen]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why on earth should the idea that slavery is some kind of benevolent opportunity for women be humored on any intellectual level?

my friends (the ones i know in real life) think i have a really sick, politically-incorrect sense of humor. and i can't see anything funny about this hypothesis.

[catzmeow]

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Let me answer this on several fronts: 1. As a heterosexual male no. 2. As a homosexual male I wouldn't know. 3. As a woman I wouldn't know. 4. If the master was a beautiful woman and being a heterosexual male would I mind submitting? Probably not. 5. If I were a woman brainwashed to serve the master? I don't know. That's my whole point that I kept writing about, I have no idea in most scenarios what it would be like and it strikes me as arrogant that a lot of the people on this thread claim to know what it's like. You have to separate me trying to be objective about it by how I feel about the situation. Objectively I am saying I don't know. Would I personally condone it? No. The fact that the posters keep posting that objectively they would know when they wouldn't is confounding.

Let me help you understand. Maybe men are able to develop sexual desire for all women, irrespective of their age, or physical condition, but the overwhelming majority of women don't work that way.

Most women feel an innate and engrained repulsion about the idea of forced sex with a man we aren't attracted to and don't desire, and frankly, the majority of women aren't attracted to more than about 3-5% of all men. Many women are attracted to a far smaller percentage than that. WE KNOW THIS ABOUT OURSELVES AND OTHER WOMEN. We are, on average, much more selective than men when it comes to sex.

Most of us realize that we know that we could not be "trained" to be sexually attracted to a man. It doesn't work like that. This is why there are so many problems with forced marriages in the third world. And, it is why as soon as women attain any sort of civil liberties under the law, requirements of force in marriage is one of the first thing that is removed from the society.

So, consider something: Is there any circumstance under which you can visualize yourself being mentally "trained" to like and enjoy a man sexually servicing himself in your anus at his pleasure?

If not, you can get a sense of how women feel about the prospect of being vaginally violated by a man in the circumstances described in the OP.

I'd like you to spend about 3-5 minutes letting yourself feel how much you would enjoy being violated by another man because he wanted to do so, and that's exactly what it feels like for a woman to contemplate the same situation. We cannot contemplate what's being proposed without feeling a sense of personal violation, because sex for us involves penetration of some part of our body. Would you enjoy being penetrated at any point for someone else's pleasure?

If not, savor that feeling. It's called empathy.

Perhaps you can now apply it in other circumstances of your life.

[curiousgeorge01]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Most women feel an innate and engrained repulsion about the idea of forced sex with a man we aren't attracted to and don't desire, and frankly, the majority of women aren't attracted to more than about 3-5% of all men. Many women are attracted to a far smaller percentage than that. WE KNOW THIS ABOUT OURSELVES AND OTHER WOMEN. We are, on average, much more selective than men when it comes to sex.

And you don't think that has anything to do with cultural upbringing? I'm not so sure about that.

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, consider something: Is there any circumstance under which you can visualize yourself being mentally "trained" to like and enjoy a man sexually servicing himself in your anus at his pleasure? If not, you can get a sense of how women feel about the prospect of being vaginally violated by a man in the circumstances described in the OP.

You realize this was the case in ancient Rome where boy servants served their male masters? I really haven't read any literature on that so I wouldn't know.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You realize this was the case in ancient Rome where boy servants served their male masters? I really haven't read any literature on that so I wouldn't know.

Actually, pederasty was considered shameful in Roman society. It was the Greeks who evolved this practice and honored it. That's why it was referred to in Roman society as "Greek love." In fact, the most shameful thing you could call an adult Roman male was "fellator" (cocksucker).

Slaves generally weren't educated and didn't have opportunities to choose their circumstances or write about them (blogs were uncommon in those days), so we know little about what male slaves in ancient Greece felt.

But, perhaps you can share with us what your feelings would be able serving in such a role. Would you welcome the opportunity?

[peppersasen]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You realize this was the case in ancient Rome where boy servants served their male masters? I really haven't read any literature on that so I wouldn't know.

i don't really think this is much of a gender issue. at least not to me, it's not. to me it's not about which gender is doing what to the other gender (or what they do to their own gender). it's about farming humans and setting their fate, terrorizing them for exercising their right to self-determination, like they're sub-human, or like they're not fully human and don't have the same rights as the rest of us.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by peppersasen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	it's about farming humans and setting their fate, terrorizing them for exercising their right to self-determination, like they're sub-human, or like they're not fully human and don't have the same rights as the rest of us.

True. There is really no difference between this and what happened with Africans in countries around the world between 1400-1800 a.d. or to slaves in other periods of time throughout history and today.

There is a reason that slavery is considered to be pretty universally repugnant.

---------- Post added 06-22-2012 at 10:10 AM ----------

I wonder if the men on this thread would be bothered by a proposal to bring back programs that bred, trained and created slave eunuchs to serve an important part of a functioning bureaucracy, such as Constantinople back in around 300 A.D.?

There were many people back in ancient times that believed that castrating a man allowed him to be safe around women and children, and capable of focusing on more subjects than the standard dick distractions would generally allow, which was why eunuchs were such effective administrators.

Thoughts, boys?

[curiousgeorge01]

Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Actually, pederasty was considered shameful in Roman society. It was the Greeks who evolved this practice and honored it. That's why it was referred to in Roman society as "Greek love." In fact, the most shameful thing you could call an adult Roman male was "fellator" (cocksucker). Slaves generally weren't educated and didn't have opportunities to choose their circumstances or write about them (blogs were uncommon in those days), so we know little about what male slaves in ancient Greece felt.

Yes but how did the Greek feel about it?

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But, perhaps you can share with us what your feelings would be able serving in such a role. Would you welcome the opportunity?

Told ya, I wouldn't know. Haven't ever been bred to do it!

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Told ya, I wouldn't know. Haven't ever been bred to do it!

You weren't asked if you were bred. You were asked to be intellectually honest with yourself and others about the possibility of experiencing this scenario personally.

So, let me try again: What are your feelings about serving in such a role? Would you welcome the opportunity?

Yes or no?

[curiousgeorge01]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You weren't asked if you were bred. You were asked to be intellectually honest with yourself and others about the possibility of experiencing this scenario personally. So, let me try again: What are your feelings about serving in such a role? Would you welcome the opportunity? Yes or no?

This is my answer:

1. This role is about people who were bred to do it. Intellectually hypothesizing based on my current situation provides no input into that role.
2. You keep saying a male forcing a male to have sex. A male forcing a women to have sex is different. One is homosexual and one is heterosexual. So you keep deviating from the point.

There is no precedent for what the OP described. Most situations where sex is a role is in poor societies but in this situation it's not poor. Besides that we have no other basis to go on and every other horrid detail has been filled in by yourself.

[babsa]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why on earth should the idea that slavery is some kind of benevolent opportunity for women be humored on any intellectual level?

Who said anything about benevolent? The original post stated that they would be held on an island against their will. Why should it be discussed? Because it is interesting to discuss. The OP wanted to know what would stop a person from establishing a slave island.

	I suppose I take it as a given that sane human beings with functioning ethics would not engage in a behavior that they personally would find damaging if they were the victim of it for someone else's sexual gratification. This isn't emotionalism, it's an ethical framework called "utilitarianism."

Off-topic.

	Is also acceptable to abduct women and keep them in a shed behind your house to service you at-will, within your ethics? Or, would finding that to be criminal on multiple levels fall into the category of "emotionalism" in your world?

Killing someone is against my ethics, but that doesn't stop me from imagining the perfect murder. You ever watch the move Fracture? Or how about Law Abiding Citizen?

	Let me put it on this: When someone proposes a theorized course of action in the public realm of ideas that involves extensive violations of people's basic human rights and liberties, they should be prepared for criticism to be directed at this idea. That's not emotionalism. That's civil discourse.

No, it is emotionally immature to stonewall any idea that is against your ethics. That's like supremely religious people who think they are sinners for having "impure thoughts". If i think red, that does not make me red, if i think about a hypothetical in which someone creates a slave island, that does not make me a person who condones slavery - how ridiculous.

	Originally Posted by peppersasen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	my friends (the ones i know in real life) think i have a really sick, politically-incorrect sense of humor. and i can't see anything funny about this hypothesis.

Humor can be used in other ways than it's typical definition... i love english.

[Storm]

I think the males that are failing to realize the horror of slavery is because when they imagine themselves in the situation, they imagine a porn fantasy. They make themselves the master in every way but word. The woman slaver has sex with them in a way that is pleasing to them. Oddly, some of the scenarios which to make the horror of slavery more accessible to these men change the sex of the slaver or make the female slaver ugly - in a way acknowledging the unstated fantasy. However, true slavery involves having sex when in ways that is not pleasing or even painful. The sex is not about you getting off - your pleasure is irrelevant. It is about making the master feel good in whatever way she wishes for as long as she wishes and whenever she wishes.

But I have always wondered the logic behind people who see no problem enslaving or torturing others. Now I know.

[curiousgeorge01]

Possibly. But if it's a fantasy, why take it so seriously?

[fairylights]

	Originally Posted by babsa To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Who said anything about benevolent? The original post stated that they would be held on an island against their will. Why should it be discussed? Because it is interesting to discuss. The OP wanted to know what would stop a person from establishing a slave island.

Why is this interesting to discuss? The answer seems painfully obvious, namely that yes, it can be done. There's nothing particularly interesting about discussing the obvious. Horrible rationalization.

Unless, of course, thinking that some creepy sexual fantasy of total power is even a little bit feasible makes it easier for some lame perv to get himself off since no woman is willingly going to touch his sorry ass with the butt end of a ten foot barge pole.

[firebee]

Well, I for one take off my hat in respect for the vast amount of intellectual courage that is necessary for sexually frustrated young men to dispassionately examine the subject of enslaving women. It's hard work, to rise above the petty emotions of other people and conclude that, despite the obvious personal disadvantages involved, aside from a few minor cultural considerations there's nothing particularly objectionable in treating women like particularly complex sex toys.

It's just a pity that the rest of us can't quite manage to rise to the same moral heights as they do -- pondering the tough questions, even though it is very hard and at any moment they might be struck by a crippling attack of carpal tunnel, so as to bring society as a whole towards a better tomorrow.

[Tocsin]

	Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well, I for one take off my hat in respect for the vast amount of intellectual courage that is necessary for sexually frustrated young men to dispassionately examine the subject of enslaving women.

Imagine what it will be like once they reach puberty!
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Reginald X]

Okay wait isn't this just "The Bachelor" except all the brides win in the first episode? And by 'win' I mean 'lose'? Unoriginal. Aim for edgier.

I hear eating is the big carnal desire these days. I bet if you pitched Cake Island then a food network would fund it.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Possibly. But if it's a fantasy, why take it so seriously?

Why do we punish people who collect child pornography so they can fantasize about having sex with children?

[Autumnleaf]

Harems have been around awhile. They traditionally have eunuchs guarding them. It is viewed as slavery by some but by others it can be viewed as a status symbol.

I know a girl who signed up to be in a harem for a certain amount of time. It was a Saudi prince's harem. She thought it would be so glamorous. She never saw the prince except once when she was summoned. She was told to be quiet and do what the prince said. She came into the room with the prince. He had anal sex with her. It was an impersonal thing. She didn't like it.

This story is second hand from my mother who was a friend of the woman. I think Disney feeds America a lot of trash about handsome princes.

[Ricardo Diaz]

Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Let me help you understand. Maybe men are able to develop sexual desire for all women, irrespective of their age, or physical condition, but the overwhelming majority of women don't work that way. Most women feel an innate and engrained repulsion about the idea of forced sex with a man we aren't attracted to and don't desire, and frankly, the majority of women aren't attracted to more than about 3-5% of all men. Many women are attracted to a far smaller percentage than that. WE KNOW THIS ABOUT OURSELVES AND OTHER WOMEN. We are, on average, much more selective than men when it comes to sex. Most of us realize that we know that we could not be "trained" to be sexually attracted to a man. It doesn't work like that. This is why there are so many problems with forced marriages in the third world. And, it is why as soon as women attain any sort of civil liberties under the law, requirements of force in marriage is one of the first thing that is removed from the society. So, consider something: Is there any circumstance under which you can visualize yourself being mentally "trained" to like and enjoy a man sexually servicing himself in your anus at his pleasure? If not, you can get a sense of how women feel about the prospect of being vaginally violated by a man in the circumstances described in the OP. I'd like you to spend about 3-5 minutes letting yourself feel how much you would enjoy being violated by another man because he wanted to do so, and that's exactly what it feels like for a woman to contemplate the same situation. We cannot contemplate what's being proposed without feeling a sense of personal violation, because sex for us involves penetration of some part of our body. Would you enjoy being penetrated at any point for someone else's pleasure? If not, savor that feeling. It's called empathy. Perhaps you can now apply it in other circumstances of your life.

You are working with too many givens and assumptions here.

It would be really interesting to have a plebiscite of adult women who are free from the poisoning of feminism about the subject. How many would CHOOSE (leave whenever you want to) to live on a pristine island which has top of the shelf facilities on it?

[babsa]

	Originally Posted by fairylights To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why is this interesting to discuss? The answer seems painfully obvious, namely that yes, it can be done. There's nothing particularly interesting about discussing the obvious. Horrible rationalization.

No. It is what circumstances that may arise if a person were to establish such an island. I would not be surprised if pirates were to raid the island. The issue with lawless land is that there is no order.

	Unless, of course, thinking that some creepy sexual fantasy of total power is even a little bit feasible makes it easier for some lame perv to get himself off since no woman is willingly going to touch his sorry ass with the butt end of a ten foot barge pole.

I suppose that is the issue, isn't it? Label me a pervert for finding the idea of setting up an island in a lawless land to be interesting, i am not here to cater to your favorable opinion. It is funny that you completely disregard my question about movies. Do you only watch movies about rainbows, butterflies, candy, and happiness?

Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Well, I for one take off my hat in respect for the vast amount of intellectual courage that is necessary for sexually frustrated young men to dispassionately examine the subject of enslaving women. It's hard work, to rise above the petty emotions of other people and conclude that, despite the obvious personal disadvantages involved, aside from a few minor cultural considerations there's nothing particularly objectionable in treating women like particularly complex sex toys. It's just a pity that the rest of us can't quite manage to rise to the same moral heights as they do -- pondering the tough questions, even though it is very hard and at any moment they might be struck by a crippling attack of carpal tunnel, so as to bring society as a whole towards a better tomorrow.

Yes. It is a pity.

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why do we punish people who collect child pornography so they can fantasize about having sex with children?

I love the rationality here! Make sure to dodge around my post specifically in response to your accusations to fill the thread with yet another asinine remark. Child pornography depicts ACTUAL children being molested, your MIND does not have ACTUAL people in it. I know, i know, this is fucking groundbreaking shit right here!

[Saggita]

Lol, this is actually the premise of one of my novels, except that there's a prophecy about women in general and it's in a fantasy setting. Until my protagonist escapes and starts a civil war. *sighs* Good times.

[babsa]

	Originally Posted by Saggita To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Lol, this is actually the premise of one of my novels, except that there's a prophecy about women in general and it's in a fantasy setting. Until my protagonist escapes and starts a civil war. *sighs* Good times.

How dare you create a fictional story about slavery. Are you a slaver, perchance? It takes a terrible person to think of terrible situations.

[Autumnleaf]

	Originally Posted by Saggita To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Lol, this is actually the premise of one of my novels, except that there's a prophecy about women in general and it's in a fantasy setting. Until my protagonist escapes and starts a civil war. *sighs* Good times.

What if she liked 'knowing her place' and started a demure revolution? Hearing women roar is predictable these days.

[Saggita]

	Originally Posted by babsa To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How dare you create a fictional story about slavery. Are you a slaver, perchance? It takes a terrible person to think of terrible situations.

I never said I was a good person. And, of course, I never took the idea seriously... Which is why the thread humors me. I created that world because it's awful and heart wrenching, and actually based on a prophecy rather than in men's desire, and some people here are considering it.

It is funny. Perhaps I can take a character or two from this thread, as the story is far away from be over.

---------- Post added 06-22-2012 at 07:06 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What if she liked 'knowing her place' and started a demure revolution? Hearing women roar is predictable these days.

So is romance. Romance still sells. Should you know your place and know I am the author, not you?