[dungeonguy88]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think people are getting tired of horrible and of letting the current leeches in fedgov feed off of regular people.

People were probably tired of other larger, more physically capable people taking there things too. Thus the idea of banding together, causing things to develop from there. So the only option for the dicks of world was to ban together, in turn. And like you said, an inviddual can't really stand on his own anymore. So it's either guy, and his buddies, with the axe or gun taking your stuff or the one with the tax form.

I don't mean to reduce this to a case of two extremes, but it seems like your painting one option as an extreme; doesn't leave me many directions to go to make my point.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by dungeonguy88 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

People were probably tired of other larger, more physically capable people taking there things too. Thus the idea of banding together, causing things to develop from there. So the only option for the dicks of world was to ban together, in turn. And like you said, an inviddual can't really stand on his own anymore. So it's either guy, and his buddies, with the axe or gun taking your stuff or the one with the tax form. I don't mean to reduce this to a case of two extremes, but it seems like your painting one option as an extreme; doesn't leave me many directions to go to make my point.

It's 2012. We have the benefit of new ideas, new philosophies. Basically, we've evolved. I'm not anti-cooperation as I can clearly see the benefits where everyone has something to gain. People can voluntarily come together to work towards a common cause, and once that is accomplished, they can part ways.

We strive to be better. And hell, we already are better because we're not statists. We don't explain away or tacitly accept the institutionalized violence and theft of the state. We expose and and we shout it down. As it should be.

I'm tired of what America is doing to the world. It's spreading wars, strife and ultimately death and is itself a destabilizing influence. Basically, the world's bully. And take a gander at what it's doing to regular Americans. They don't even try too hard when trying to hide their political corruption and corporatism.

[dungeonguy88]

Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It's 2012. We have the benefit of new ideas, new philosophies. Basically, we've evolved. I'm not anti-cooperation as I can clearly see the benefits where everyone has something to gain. People can voluntarily come together to work towards a common cause, and once that is accomplished, they can part ways. We strive to be better. And hell, we already are better because we're not statists. We don't explain away or tacitly accept the institutionalized violence and theft of the state. We expose and and we shout it down. As it should be. I'm tired of what America is doing to the world. It's spreading wars, strife and ultimately death and is itself a destabilizing influence. Basically, the world's bully. And take a gander at what it's doing to regular Americans. They don't even try too hard when trying to hide their political corruption and corporatism.

I agree, and in that regard you deserve a laudatory note, for pushing things to improve. That being said, there are two directions to go with pros and cons to each; breaking down the system and rebuilding, and on the other hand refining the current system. As I understand it, we both prefer the other side to differing degrees. On another point we probably agree upon, is that the U.S. shouldn't be using other nations, in this case the Middle Eastern nations, as our personal labrats to figure that question out.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by dungeonguy88 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I agree, and in that regard you deserve a laudatory note, for pushing things to improve. That being said, there are two directions to go with pros and cons to each; breaking down the system and rebuilding, and on the other hand refining the current system. As I understand it, we both prefer the other side to differing degrees. On another point we probably agree upon, is that the U.S. shouldn't be using other nations, in this case the Middle Eastern nations, as our personal labrats to figure that question out.

Yeah, I agree with the non-interventionism.

[Paul Siraisi]

	Originally Posted by Nomatterwhat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I cant believe what im reading in this thread, so much ignorance, just read Kuran, its easy fun read, thats what islam is, anyones interpretation of islam is not islams business.

You mean this?


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I insist you answer immediately.

[dungeonguy88]

Seems like a lot of religious texts have that kind of stuff scattered throughout them. A lot of leaders of large groups seem to go that route too, when it comes to directing their people. Seems like a correlation to me.

[Paul Siraisi]

	Originally Posted by dungeonguy88 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Seems like a lot of religious texts have that kind of stuff scattered throughout them. A lot of leaders of large groups seem to go that route too, when it comes to directing their people. Seems like a correlation to me.

The main other ones, the Old Testament (which The Quran embraces) and the Torah, have each been counteracted--thoroughly neutered--one by the New Testament, the other by the Talmud.

The Quran, on the other hand, has been installed with foreknowledge of the above 'weakness'. It is a re-assertion of OT adamance, and it shall brook no revision.

"If anyone introduces an innovation or gives shelter to a man who introduces an innovation (in religion), he is cursed by Allah, by His angels, and by all the people." Abu-Dawud, Book 39, Number 4515

[Nomatterwhat]

	Originally Posted by Paul Siraisi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You mean this? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I insist you answer immediately.

That, my friend is exactly what i am talking about, that is the curtain, protecting you from harmful information... Get a hard copy of Kuran and read it, dont google it...
And preferably order it from outside of US.

To make it clear; THAT QUOTE FROM KURAN IS NOT FROM KURAN! its fabricated, sorry...

	Originally Posted by Paul Siraisi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	"If anyone introduces an innovation or gives shelter to a man who introduces an innovation (in religion), he is cursed by Allah, by His angels, and by all the people." Abu-Dawud, Book 39, Number 4515

That is fabricated also, check this out;
"Its the scientists (scholar, erudite) who understands the God most and its system in the Universe" Fatır 28

[wolfyx]

Originally Posted by Nomatterwhat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That, my friend is exactly what i am talking about, that is the curtain, protecting you from harmful information... Get a hard copy of Kuran and read it, dont google it... And preferably order it from outside of US. To make it clear; THAT QUOTE FROM KURAN IS NOT FROM KURAN! its fabricated, sorry... That is fabricated also, check this out; "Its the scientists (scholar, erudite) who understands the God most and his system in the Universe" Fatır 28

Maybe if you stopped pointing us towards your book people would respect you more. The Middle East must cure itself of this disease called “Islam” if they are to evolve.

Why can you not accept that we are all the same, that we share a fate and that your “Allah” is just a scam invented by some smart rulers more the one thousand years ago in order to unify and control sociocultural heterogeneous groups of people?

Just because your parents taught you “nonsense” doesn’t mean that you have to continue to believe in that “nonsense”. Brake free and embrace progress as part of the Human Civilisation!

[Nomatterwhat]

Easy wolfy, im getting lots of respect already you shouldnt worry about that, im pointing you to Kuran because its what Islam is all about, its the book after all, correct?, yeah its correct.

My parents taught me nonesense? Im not even exactly a believer, I barely believe in any religion, I would just choose Islam if i had to label my own belief system. Therefore all my ideas, comments i made are more reliable than yours because im objective. Im not trying to advertise Islam here, read my posts again i was merely trying to disprove that Islam is evil.
Its not evil, nor is Christianity.

The Middle East must cure itself of this disease called “Islam” if they are to evolve?
Calling the religion which 3 billions of people believe a disease tells me alot about you
Although you are right, middle east must cure itself from some diseases, and you have the same disease boy, in your mind, its called dumb ignorance

Originally Posted by wolfyx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Maybe if you stopped pointing us towards your book people would respect you more. The Middle East must cure itself of this disease called “Islam” if they are to evolve. Why can you not accept that we are all the same, that we share a fate and that your “Allah” is just a scam invented by some smart rulers more the one thousand years ago in order to unify and control sociocultural heterogeneous groups of people? Just because your parents taught you “nonsense” doesn’t mean that you have to continue to believe in that “nonsense”. Brake free and embrace progress as part of the Human Civilisation!

Why can i not accept that we are all the same and we share the same fate?
Thats what i have been telling all this time, go to an online dictionary and check the meaning of God in arabic, Allah is the word for God in arabic, its Tanrı in turkish, is it something different because turks have a different name for it? Nope, but your beautiful brain is unfortunately soft-wired to believe that Allah is something else and baaaaad

By the way im 30 years old dear, im far from being under mommy influence
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[wolfyx]

Originally Posted by Nomatterwhat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Easy wolfy, im getting lots of respect already you shouldnt worry about that, im pointing you to Kuran because because its what Islam is all about, its the book after all, correct?, yeah its correct. My parents taught me nonesense? Im not even exactly a believer, I barely believe in any religion, I would just choose Islam if i had to label my own belief system. Therefore my all my ideas, comments i made are more reliable than yours because im objective. Im not trying to advertise Islam here, read my posts again i was merely trying to disprove that Islam is evil. By the way im 30 years old dear, im far from being under mommy influence To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Any religion or any system of believes that creates separation and conflict between human beings is BAD and EVIL because it produces HARM and SUFFERING.

In the Middle East Islam has enormous power, as the Christian Church used to have in the Middle Ages in Europe. People in the Middle East refuse reason and kill each other over interpretations of the "Unholy Book". This madness should stop and people must evolve out of religion!

[scorpiomover]

Originally Posted by Paul Siraisi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

From the perspective of global history, the Arab world today can be seen to be probably about as violent as Europe in the middle ages. Europe then evolved and adopted an ideal of world peace (despite the continued operation of violent human nature against that, even inside Europe), and the Arab world didn't but instead, from almost the exact instant the warlord Mohammed crafted his cynical imitation of Christianity into a military tool, adopted an ideal of world conquest.

Depends. In the last century, far more people were killed in the last 2 big wars, than any war in Europe in the Middle Ages. Plus, the UK has done some pretty brutal things. Gassing their own soldiers to test out new chemical weapons, pretending that their soldiers didn't get Gulf War Syndrome, taking the food that was left over from famines in their colonies, leaving millions to die of starvation. We really don't have a great track record.

But then, on the other hand, homicide rates have plummeted since the Middle Ages.

So if you mean that when it comes to the people, that modern Westerners are way less violent than Europeans of the Middle Ages, I agree.

If you mean that when it comes to countries, modern Western countries are at least as violent as European countries of the Middle Ages, and probably way more violent, then I agree.

	Originally Posted by Paul Siraisi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Fortunately for the world, that ideal has been undermined by Islam's own suppression of thought (though some of its conquered peoples continued to struggle to follow the path lit by the Greeks in spite of it).

It's been reported several times, that Iran is one of, if not the, leading centres of research into cloning and stem cells in the world. Americans banned it for 10 years. The UK didn't, but didn't put that much into it, just like the other Western countries.

---------- Post added 06-20-2012 at 10:39 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by wolfyx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If I believed that Tooth Fairy existed and I talked to Her 5 times a day you would think I was crazy, don’t you?

If you tell most people that you go online once a day, and talk to people who all think they are super-smart, but who don't have a girlfriend/boyfriend, and don't earn millions, and all think that the reason that they don't, is because the world is stupid, most people will tell you that you are nuts to even go near that site, and that you don't keep well clear of those people, shows that you really need help.

[Shahira]

@NoMatterWhat don't bother with Paul and Wolfyx, they just love posting false quotes from the Quran. They are islamophobes and they clearly believe the shit that comes from the media and then they start to claim to be a "free thinkers" ect. They clearly don't know shit about the religion.

I can't shake the feeling that this thread was made because the OP just wanted to have some attention.

[thod]

Yet they make some good points. We can see a culture clash with the 'modern' western ideas competing against the traditional patterns of Islam. The Islamic world produces almost no technology. It can barely feed itself. It is going to have to adapt and change or become like a giant Amish enclave. The only questions are which parts of doctrine must be reinterpreted and which can remain. History teaches us that when a more modern state confronts a middle ages kingdom, it goes badly for the kingdom.

[wolfyx]

	Originally Posted by Samia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	@NoMatterWhat don't bother with Paul and Wolfyx, they just love posting false quotes from the Quran. They are islamophobes and they clearly believe the shit that comes from the media and then they start to claim to be a "free thinkers" ect. They clearly don't know shit about the religion. I can't shake the feeling that this thread was made because the OP just wanted to have some attention.

Lol. I am half ethnically Arab. I don't believe a thing from what I hear in the media, I make my own judgement and I look for other reliable sources; I seek truth from facts.

I am as "free thinker" as one can be. I hate all religions and bigoted believes in an equal measure but nowadays Islam is the religion that is causing most harm.

I posted this in this thread before:

" The official reason of this invasion of Iraq was to "liberate the country" and "bring democracy". What did the Americans left behind once their real objective of securing the control of that regions oil was achieved? A country in ruin, a lot worse then before. America didn't want or couldn't do absolutely nothing to assure the evolution of the people exactly because under today's status quo the Iraqis are "outsiders".

And this happened in every place on earth that was colonized or invaded by westerners. Their contribution to the development of the local societies was a bare minimum. The only economically successful countries are the one where western elements are dominant or where the sociocultural background of the locals is sane enough to evolve by themselves.

I strongly believe that all humans are fundamentally good. In fact very few people have a real influence on history and on their environment. Most of them are followers, victims of the powerful ones. It’s ethically unfair to hate people and to use violence against them because they follow a wrong ideology. I am more inclined to say that winning the “Arab” people hearts and minds would be a lot more efficient and it would have long term beneficial consequences.

I said this before but I will repeat it you can only embrace your concept of evolution by not considering them as “outsiders”. Please try to understand this concept. There should be no more “them” (Arab, Africans, Chinese, etc.) and “us” (Western World).

The rule that generally applies is that: “You will be treated by others as you treat them”. An ultra-nationalistic and self-righteous “West” would only cause the “others” to close on themselves and to emphasize their own sense of “identity”.

That is why we see the rise of Islamic extremism and of hate in the middle-est. Because the religious leaders send a message that resonate to the average Arab folk. They claim that “Allah” is on their side to help them fight and vanquish the Western oppressors. Unless the West stops acting like an “oppressor” this message will continue to resonate and the hatred will only get stronger.

It is hard to change the core values for a socio-cultural group. In order to change the root values one must create a new pattern of behavior. And this is done through education. Instead of investing billions of dollars in destructive and inefficient wars, the US should invest that money in the economy, education and healthcare system of the Islamic countries. A “Marshall Plan” of the western world towards the ideologically challenged Islamic countries would see its return of investment sooner than you think. It would create new powerful trading partners that would revitalize the world economy and it would rid the world of one of the greatest threats, religious extremism. "

[LaoTzu]

	Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Islam is out of whack like an old phonograph record that skips and repeats forever with the needle never making it to the next groove. It's spinning, self-perpetuating insanity.

I'll reiterate something you may not have been asked in the passed few days....

How many Muslims do you know? Have you read the Koran?

What sort of expertise do you have in this field?
Why do you think that your dismissive (hateful) opinion is more astute... more apt than that of a reasoned and measured opinion of someone who's discussed all these same topics with many people of this religion you can't help yourself from questioning.

Really, their religion is none of your business. Your opinion is unsolicited. They did not request your sanction or approval.
Your methodology is flawed. Your reason suspect. And the conclusion you support is one of indifference akin to hatred.
And for what? What gain is there from your hatred of that which you don't understand?

What sick pleasure do you derive from bringing down huge swaths of the worlds population?
Are you naiive enough to think that your flawed view of Islam is important? Even Helpful?


Where is the line crossed between reasonable debate; and unfounded, ungrounded suspicion that smacks of the 50's-style racism you so openly pine away for?


People say I'm unreasonable for calling you out in such barbaric terms.
But when you're disparaging a few billion people, without anything but your 'gut' to guide you....

I'm sorry but that smacks of a damaged psyche to me...

That level of debate does more harm than good.

[thod]

	Really, their religion is none of your business.

Sure it is, it's a debate forum. You don't have the power to tell others what they can discuss.

	Your opinion is unsolicited.

It's a debate forum. Anyone can chip in with an opinion.

	What sort of expertise do you have in this field? Why do you think that your dismissive (hateful) opinion is more astute... more apt than that of a reasoned and measured opinion of someone who's discussed all these same topics with many people of this religion you can't help yourself from questioning.

If you are an expert on this subject, then you can correct the rest of us. However nobody will believe you are an expert just because you say you are.

	What sick pleasure do you derive from bringing down huge swaths of the worlds population?

Every tribe in the world will tell you what terrible people the neighbouring tribe are.

	Are you naiive enough to think that your flawed view of Islam is important? Even Helpful?

Well I'm interested, therefore justified.

	But when you're disparaging a few billion people, without anything but your 'gut' to guide you....

Ah, defender of the nameless masses too. Ain't nothing wrong with disparaging billions of people. Can disparage everyone but Me, my dog and the guy that lives down the road, if I want to. You reckon you can tell us all what we can and can't say?

[larkin]

	Originally Posted by Paul Siraisi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The main other ones, the Old Testament (which The Quran embraces) and the Torah, have each been counteracted--thoroughly neutered--one by the New Testament, the other by the Talmud.

To pretend Christianity on the basis of scripture believes in "good" is a lie - we all know goddamn well followers of any religion believe in whatever they want. The great majority of the time it's much more of a cultural tradition than it is any kind of belief system.

So you want to know my response to an incendiary picture designed to provoke an emotional response?


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Oh, wait, they're extremists? Get out.

[Subtle]

	Originally Posted by Nomatterwhat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Which interpretation of islam those guys had is not relevant with what i said, Just read Kuran and see whats written in it about wars,enemies, civillians, women, children concerning war. /---/ I hope i made my point, my english sucks and im tired because of trying to use your language in the most perfect way possible with this limited fluency, out of respect to the language and to the nation...

Westerners have opinions about Islam. We may be right, we may be wrong. But that's not interesting, I think. The important thing is how Muslims view Islam. Their interpretations of Islam shape our opinion about it more than anything else. We can see how devote Muslims behave on a daily basis. Many of us are not impressed, to say the least.

Personally, I think that the Koran is a load of crap. I interpret its teachings to be ludicrous, evil, retarded, and poisonous. I don't believe that there is something as moderate Islam. No, if anything, the "moderates" function as kingpins for the fanatics.

I've met non-religious people from Muslim countries. They, unknowingly, showed me that without Islam there's hope.

Oh, you've made your point. I don't believe that your readers took it the way you intended, though. By the way, English is not my mother-tongue, either. We suffer together in this area.

[Nomatterwhat]

I love you too Subtle nomatterwhat, i know you are not evil to the core, you have a shell that might look darkened but you are a good guy in the core

[Shahira]

Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yet they make some good points. We can see a culture clash with the 'modern' western ideas competing against the traditional patterns of Islam. The Islamic world produces almost no technology. It can barely feed itself. It is going to have to adapt and change or become like a giant Amish enclave. The only questions are which parts of doctrine must be reinterpreted and which can remain. History teaches us that when a more modern state confronts a middle ages kingdom, it goes badly for the kingdom.

They have and they do. Just because its not publicised doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Yet a modern world uses ideas that were developed by those from a middle aged kingdom... Many Muslims have contributed towards mathematics and science, but is hardly ever mentioned. Ever wondered why?

Originally Posted by wolfyx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Lol. I am half ethnically Arab. I don't believe a thing from what I hear in the media, I make my own judgement and I look for other reliable sources; I seek truth from facts. I am as "free thinker" as one can be. I hate all religions and bigoted believes in an equal measure but nowadays Islam is the religion that is causing most harm. I posted this in this thread before: " The official reason of this invasion of Iraq was to "liberate the country" and "bring democracy". What did the Americans left behind once their real objective of securing the control of that regions oil was achieved? A country in ruin, a lot worse then before. America didn't want or couldn't do absolutely nothing to assure the evolution of the people exactly because under today's status quo the Iraqis are "outsiders". And this happened in every place on earth that was colonized or invaded by westerners. Their contribution to the development of the local societies was a bare minimum. The only economically successful countries are the one where western elements are dominant or where the sociocultural background of the locals is sane enough to evolve by themselves. I strongly believe that all humans are fundamentally good. In fact very few people have a real influence on history and on their environment. Most of them are followers, victims of the powerful ones. It’s ethically unfair to hate people and to use violence against them because they follow a wrong ideology. I am more inclined to say that winning the “Arab” people hearts and minds would be a lot more efficient and it would have long term beneficial consequences. I said this before but I will repeat it you can only embrace your concept of evolution by not considering them as “outsiders”. Please try to understand this concept. There should be no more “them” (Arab, Africans, Chinese, etc.) and “us” (Western World). The rule that generally applies is that: “You will be treated by others as you treat them”. An ultra-nationalistic and self-righteous “West” would only cause the “others” to close on themselves and to emphasize their own sense of “identity”. That is why we see the rise of Islamic extremism and of hate in the middle-est. Because the religious leaders send a message that resonate to the average Arab folk. They claim that “Allah” is on their side to help them fight and vanquish the Western oppressors. Unless the West stops acting like an “oppressor” this message will continue to resonate and the hatred will only get stronger. It is hard to change the core values for a socio-cultural group. In order to change the root values one must create a new pattern of behavior. And this is done through education. Instead of investing billions of dollars in destructive and inefficient wars, the US should invest that money in the economy, education and healthcare system of the Islamic countries. A “Marshall Plan” of the western world towards the ideologically challenged Islamic countries would see its return of investment sooner than you think. It would create new powerful trading partners that would revitalize the world economy and it would rid the world of one of the greatest threats, religious extremism. "

Just because you are half Arab doesn't mean you're half Muslim. Christianity and Judaism originated in Arabia not only Islam. So a person who follows a religion can't be a free thinker too? Define free thinker. What makes someone a free thinker? Whether they follow a religion or not? Ha!! I'm not going to deny that there is a problem with Muslim extremists, but compared to the actions of Muslims to this day to the ones made by Christians it is barely a speck on a margin. Funny, how people focus on what's going on now with Muslims, but so ready to forget about the violent history of other religions.

[Ray9]

Originally Posted by LaoTzu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'll reiterate something you may not have been asked in the passed few days.... How many Muslims do you know? Have you read the Koran? What sort of expertise do you have in this field? Why do you think that your dismissive (hateful) opinion is more astute... more apt than that of a reasoned and measured opinion of someone who's discussed all these same topics with many people of this religion you can't help yourself from questioning. Really, their religion is none of your business. Your opinion is unsolicited. They did not request your sanction or approval. Your methodology is flawed. Your reason suspect. And the conclusion you support is one of indifference akin to hatred. And for what? What gain is there from your hatred of that which you don't understand? What sick pleasure do you derive from bringing down huge swaths of the worlds population? Are you naiive enough to think that your flawed view of Islam is important? Even Helpful? Where is the line crossed between reasonable debate; and unfounded, ungrounded suspicion that smacks of the 50's-style racism you so openly pine away for? People say I'm unreasonable for calling you out in such barbaric terms. But when you're disparaging a few billion people, without anything but your 'gut' to guide you.... I'm sorry but that smacks of a damaged psyche to me... That level of debate does more harm than good.

	Originally Posted by LaoTzu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How many Muslims do you know? Have you read the Koran?

One doesn't have to read Mein Kampf or hang out with Hitler to know the Nazis were bad news. As I said before, make it about me if you want but you must realize that this is a bedridden tactic used in debates when the counter agrument lacks persuasion. Surely you are capable of crafting a better rebuttal than just attacking the opposition.

[davai]

	Originally Posted by Subtle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't believe that there is something as moderate Islam.

Sufism, condemned even by mainstream Islam.

While I sympathize with your side somewhat, it's difficult to know when the truth ends and the scaremongering begins. The above comment crosses that line.

[Subtle]

	Originally Posted by davai To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sufism, condemned even by mainstream Islam. While I sympathize with your side somewhat, it's difficult to know when the truth ends and the scaremongering begins. The above comment crosses that line.

My rant about moderates is applicable to other religions, too. Anyway, I give you that the sentence might deserve some criticism, but I'm not agreeing that it is scaremongering. Who's afraid?

[davai]

	Originally Posted by Subtle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My rant about moderates is applicable to other religions, too. Anyway, I give you that the sentence might deserve some criticism, but I'm not agreeing that it is scaremongering. Who's afraid?

The ones who take such opinions for granted I guess. It's not so much the one statement, it's the accumulation of misinformation over time that leads people into fearing imaginary evils. Islam is the 21st century "folk devil" which has a lot to do with how it's portrayed and the language used by the media.