[Nyctalop]

First, I'd just like to say I consider this forum an oasis of sanity on the internet. I think it was the first place that I found where people actually made sense and the way the posts were written were very much like my own personal style. I don't come here very often for the same reason I don't eat my favourite dish more than once every couple of months. I don't want to turn it into a dull experience.

I've never lived well with uncertainty. Recently, I met a girl, who's an ISFJ, which according to some people that write MBTI typology matches on the internet isn't quite the rosiest of combinations for an INTJ. I'm well aware that any generalization is flawed from the start and psychological types aren't a rule, since everyone is different. But what is obviously apparent is that she and I are about as different as it can be. I've always been able to read people quite easily, since most of them are fairly blunt with their body language, quips and gestures. So it has never been a mystery to me when someone likes or dislikes me. But this girl is keeping me on thorns.

I can't tell if I'm just a distraction or if I'm something serious to her. Maybe she hasn't decided either. I'm not the easiest people to see through, either. I haven't said it out-right that I really like her but I think I dropped enough hints. I'm actually scared to come out and would rather wallow in this quagmire of doubt than decide things. Even if it's slowly festering away at my sanity.

The funny thing is we're both in London, we only started talking here and yet, she's from my hometown, a few thousand miles away, we went to the same schools and she lives about 5 minutes away from me. We have quite a few common friends but no direct contact until a few months ago.

The worst part is that I had to move for a few months so now we're only keeping in touch via phone/internet. And I feel even more vulnerable. I'm not a control freak, because I never wanted to be in control of anything, my general life philosophy has been to ride the wave, just enjoy the experience and have no regrets about the past. Now, I feel like a caged lion, looking out through the bars to the green pastures with teary eyes.

To sum it all up, the most horrible part is that for the first time in my life, I don't know what to do. It's dreadful.

[ThingInItsSelf]

	I feel like a caged lion, looking out through the bars to the green pastures with teary eyes.

We have all been there Nyctalop
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. Desire and pain brought about by anxiety and attraction, as awful as it is its reminds us what it is to be human.

	I'm actually scared to come out and would rather wallow in this quagmire of doubt than decide things. Even if it's slowly festering away at my sanity.

Not the way to go. At best you stay just friends, until you get drunk and do the whole "I really love you, no like, I really love you!" all wrong. In cases like this, if we we want our sanity and potentially love we need to be bold. Just tell her you think she is beautiful and you want to take her out on a date to see if you could be anything more.

I know that its easier said then done - but uncertainty will only undermine you until you are bold
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Best of luck

[Nyctalop]

The thing is we have been out several times and it was always nice. We had plans to go to Thorpe Park but those fell apart because I had to move.

That's why it's so confusing, I can't tell if she sees me as just a friend or something more. And in my state I imagine that by pushing the envelope for more, I might scare her off. So the safest route might be the slowest one. But that's also the most arduous one.

[Jiskya]

I'm going through something that's shockingly similar with an INFJ. Although, you probably shouldn't take me seriously. I'm only 18. But if it it helps, I know how bad it sucks. Especially the vulnerability part...I can't stand that.

[ThingInItsSelf]

	And in my state I imagine that by pushing the envelope for more, I might scare her off. So the safest route might be the slowest one. But that's also the most arduous one.

Do you think you can take it slow? If you can great, but if you cant you run the risk of just blurting it all out at the wrong moment and that is scary for the person on the other side. Sometimes it better to say the inevitable in a controlled manner - "I think you are beautiful I would love to date you - but if you just want friends we can do that too" just a thought
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[Espadrille]

Originally Posted by Nyctalop To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The thing is we have been out several times and it was always nice. We had plans to go to Thorpe Park but those fell apart because I had to move. That's why it's so confusing, I can't tell if she sees me as just a friend or something more. And in my state I imagine that by pushing the envelope for more, I might scare her off. So the safest route might be the slowest one. But that's also the most arduous one.

If she's also interested in a more serious relationship, why would she be scared off? If she's not interested she'll tell you so.

[Causa Mortis]

	Originally Posted by Jiskya To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm going through something that's shockingly similar with an INFJ. Although, you probably shouldn't take me seriously. I'm only 18. But if it it helps, I know how bad it sucks. Especially the vulnerability part...I can't stand that.

The courage to risk that vulnerability is the only thing that will lead to worthwhile love. Your other alternative is asshole game, which won't lead to real love and which you'll hate yourself for using.

No, its take the risks in a bold, confident, assertive, and authentic manner, and the rejections on the chin. The upside is worth it, I promise.

---------- Post added 06-09-2012 at 10:07 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Nyctalop To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	To sum it all up, the most horrible part is that for the first time in my life, I don't know what to do. It's dreadful.

First of all, you haven't done something cosmically stupid so far, which is huge, and which probably means you just have to play this right. "Right" being bold, authentic, and non-needy. I'm also assuming that you want to date and not just fuck this girl, right?

We need some details: how often do you hang out? When not in the same town, how often do you talk? Has their been anything physical - cuddling, making out, or sex? Are other guys in the picture? Do you think she knows about your romantic interest?

One piece of preliminary advice that will absolutely kill any attraction she may have: you're totally obsessing over this and need to invest this obsessive energy in something, anything else. A known World of Warcraft obsession is more attractive to a woman than a pre-coitus limerence.

[Nyctalop]

	Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	We need some details: how often do you hang out? When not in the same town, how often do you talk? Has their been anything physical - cuddling, making out, or sex? Are other guys in the picture? Do you think she knows about your romantic interest?

We talked on FB, of all things, first. Then, a few weeks later we went to see a rom-com together. Her bus was late, so our scheduled viewing time was pushed back to a later hour. We had some time to kill so we went to a pub for something to eat and a pint.

The next day, she texted me that she has some free time and wants to meet me. We met about half way, ate an ice cream, walked around for a bit before stopping at a cafe near a London canal.

We met a few days later, when we both had some spare time and went bowling, of all things, then had a quiet stroll through Finsbury Park.

The following weekend, we decided to try out some bouldering, which was both fun and exhausting. After a couple of hours and several muscle aches, we had an over-sized and under-priced meal then saw another movie.

For the Queen's Jubilee we were squeezing through the crowd on a bridge over the Thames, then decided that it was a bad idea and just walked around through Leicester Square for the rest of the day.

We met one last time before I moved and she said that is was going to pass very fast.

As far as talking goes, I think in one way or another, we've pretty much communicated every day for the past couple of weeks.

In hindsight, it all seems to have happened faster than I remember. But then again, I've never been any good with time placement.

[Espadrille]

I wouldn't doubt her interest at this point. Why not just tell her you really enjoy spending time with her? Let her know something about how you feel and that will inevitably relieve your anxiety, since not doing so is the source of your anxiety. Isn't it?

What's the worst that could happen?

[Causa Mortis]

	Originally Posted by Espadrille To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I wouldn't doubt her interest at this point. Why not just tell her you really enjoy spending time with her? Let her know something about how you feel and that will inevitably relieve your anxiety, since not doing so is the source of your anxiety. Isn't it? What's the worst that could happen?

Agree with most of this, however, at this point he's likely to be pushing the Friend Zone pretty hard with this much time and no physicality.

---------- Post added 06-10-2012 at 06:28 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Nyctalop To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

We talked on FB, of all things, first. Then, a few weeks later we went to see a rom-com together. Her bus was late, so our scheduled viewing time was pushed back to a later hour. We had some time to kill so we went to a pub for something to eat and a pint. The next day, she texted me that she has some free time and wants to meet me. We met about half way, ate an ice cream, walked around for a bit before stopping at a cafe near a London canal. We met a few days later, when we both had some spare time and went bowling, of all things, then had a quiet stroll through Finsbury Park. The following weekend, we decided to try out some bouldering, which was both fun and exhausting. After a couple of hours and several muscle aches, we had an over-sized and under-priced meal then saw another movie. For the Queen's Jubilee we were squeezing through the crowd on a bridge over the Thames, then decided that it was a bad idea and just walked around through Leicester Square for the rest of the day. We met one last time before I moved and she said that is was going to pass very fast. As far as talking goes, I think in one way or another, we've pretty much communicated every day for the past couple of weeks. In hindsight, it all seems to have happened faster than I remember. But then again, I've never been any good with time placement.

Neediness and an absence of boldness are really the only ways you can fuck this up. She's romantically interested.

1. What activities bring you the most happiness, the most joy? 90% of your free time should be spent on those. For me its weight lifting, reading, talking to a close friend, and especially writing. Do *NOT* obsess about her - you need to be more invested in your own opinion of yourself than anything else.

2. The right move, at this point, is a classy physical play. As in, you go to dinner then someplace where a makeout is appropriate, then you kiss her. Since you've played this pretty soft in this department and are in danger of being friendzoned, you need to be bold here.

3. The right move is not a bleeding heart "My feelings are so rich for you" talk. That will reek of neediness. I would not have that conversation until you've slept with her. Let your actions do the talking.

[Nyctalop]

Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1. What activities bring you the most happiness, the most joy? 90% of your free time should be spent on those. For me its weight lifting, reading, talking to a close friend, and especially writing. Do *NOT* obsess about her - you need to be more invested in your own opinion of yourself than anything else. 2. The right move, at this point, is a classy physical play. As in, you go to dinner then someplace where a makeout is appropriate, then you kiss her. Since you've played this pretty soft in this department and are in danger of being friendzoned, you need to be bold here. 3. The right move is not a bleeding heart "My feelings are so rich for you" talk. That will reek of neediness. I would not have that conversation until you've slept with her. Let your actions do the talking.

That's not an option at this time. I'm at a great enough distance to prevent any sort of physical contact for a few weeks. So other than starting a great needy talk about unrequited feelings, maybe my best chance would to slow down on the communicating part.

[mieu]

Yikes, tough situation. I understand you're torn about waiting--what if someone else comes along and scoops her up in your absence, if she doesn't know your feelings? At the same time, I'd never advise someone to get into a long distance relationship.

Something to consider, if you want to get into a long-term relationship with this girl:
Are you both still in school? If so, do you both know what direction you'll be going when you're done? People tend to shoot off in all different directions when they finish school, especially if they head straight for their masters. Different goals and different directions in life might just split you both apart geographically after you've waited this out in order to be together in the first place.

[Causa Mortis]

	Originally Posted by Nyctalop To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That's not an option at this time. I'm at a great enough distance to prevent any sort of physical contact for a few weeks. So other than starting a great needy talk about unrequited feelings, maybe my best chance would to slow down on the communicating part.

I would not limit communication. That's for when you do something needy and then need to offset that neediness. To my knowledge, you have not done anything needy.

[Espadrille]

	Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I would not limit communication. That's for when you do something needy and then need to offset that neediness. To my knowledge, you have not done anything needy.

He hasn't done anything needy but he sounds needy.

@Nyct - why not just pick up another girl and get laid? Your relationship sounds like basic hot pants.

[Causa Mortis]

	Originally Posted by Espadrille To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He hasn't done anything needy but he sounds needy. @Nyct - why not just pick up another girl and get laid? Your relationship sounds like basic hot pants.

His feelings and their interaction to me seem to suggest something more than just lust. Perhaps I am misreading the situation.

I think he should focus on whatever he's working on and hobbies to limit neediness, not another girl.

[Selene]

Any possibility of relocating for either of you? If no, then it's best to keep things platonic and save yourself a trip down the lanes of heartache. At this point, it sounds like you're feeling the effects of a schoolboy crush. Take it easy and keep dating other people.

[Nomatterwhat]

From the impression i got i think you are the kind of person who is easy to read by the woman you are attracted to, she probably knows you want her even if you tried to hide it therefor i have to assume she is either interested or likes your attention because she is hanging out with you.

Sounds like you are lacking sexual tension, not necessarily phisical escalation but sexual tension. At this point i would advice getting together again and somehow check her level of interest. Easiest way to do this would be getting her to join you and your other female friend(preferably hot) for that thing you are going to do... Or just get together with her again and approach any beatiful woman, have a small talk with her about anything. See how she reacts to this, Though its kind of a slipper slope if you are going through with this you must make sure she doesnt feel alienated and think you are actually hitting on that other hot girl, nor should that other hot girl think that way because then she wont respond positively and it will put you in a horrible situation, although its not likely because you are already with a girl, she will probably think you guys are a couple and respond positively to whatever little question you ask, and your girl will think you are very comfortable with that hot stranger and you must be more than what you look like(more than what you look like because you are lacking sexual tension at this point, you are already more than what she thinks). By doing this you are first putting her in a position where it will be hard for her to hide her emotions, jealousy is a very powerful tool... second, if she didnt have any sexual interest you will be triggering her to develop to it.

My 2 cents, dont get caught in the examples though, Idea is creating sexual tension.

I dont think you are at the point where you need to be bold about expressing your feelings for her, she didnt do anything yet to deserve it, it would only get you to the official friend zone.

Create sexual tension. Best of luck