[babsa]

	Originally Posted by Jezebel
	What I look for is the number of threads that already exist that can be moved to the new subforum so it doesn't start out empty, how many of those threads are recent, and the activity level of the primary subforum they will be moved from.

I understand your concern, but how important is it to have pages of threads compiled for a new sub-forum? The issue that many people who are interested in this topics of discussion have is that the lack of a place to post about cooking, home improvement, and gardening could be misinterpreted as a lack of interest in these subjects. I mean, i could start a thread right now about the cucumber sandwich i made for lunch, but i would have to deal with my discontent about how impertinent it is to whatever sub-forum i put it in.

	It generally involves reorganizing a lot of threads, mucking around in our permissions system, inviting a new moderator and regularly monitoring the new subforum's progress for some time afterward in case adjustments need to be made. It isn't a lot of work, but it's enough that I wouldn't want to do it if I thought it might not work out.

I understand, i just didn't want you to think i am not ignoring the amount of effort it could take.

[Amphorian]

	Originally Posted by Uriel
	Home Economics? Cooking, Gardening, Home Improvement It sort of does go in line with an INTJs predilection for independence.

I think crafts and automobiles could also be added to the list of descriptors.

Edit: @Jezebel: Oh I didn't think of travel. That's quite popular in the lounge.

[Jezebel]

	Originally Posted by babsa
	The issue that many people who are interested in this topics of discussion have is that the lack of a place to post about cooking, home improvement, and gardening could be misinterpreted as a lack of interest in these subjects.

Carefully considering what subforums to create and maintaining an appearance of constant activity has always been a significant consideration in maintaining community growth. Activity breeds activity and stagnation makes people leave.

I believe creating a subforum for any topic will result in more threads being created about that topic, but I do not believe creating a subforum will generate new posts on a daily basis about topics that previously weren't being discussed. For example, I couldn't even find a thread dedicated to gardening. I'm sure there are some members with an interest in gardening and we would probably get a few threads about it if I made a subforum with "gardening" in the title. However, I cannot fathom suddenly having an active subforum full of threads about gardening just because I made a subforum for it. I think the lack of threads is indicative of not having a lot of members interested in discussing gardening.

While most of us live in homes I'm not convinced DIY topics would do well here either. If my toilet breaks and I want to fix it myself, I'm not going to start a thread on INTJf even if we have a subforum about it. I'm just going to look up what I need to do to fix it; maybe look up an instructional video on youtube. It's just not that interesting to discuss.

That being said, I think it's possible that some sort of "Home and Hobbies" subforum could do well here. There are a lot of threads about cooking and other hobbies scattered around the forum. I just think it is necessary to examine evidence of what members are interested in talking about and what subjects might need to be combined to make it thrive.

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by Jezebel
	While most of us live in homes I'm not convinced DIY topics would do well here either. If my toilet breaks and I want to fix it myself, I'm not going to start a thread on INTJf even if we have a subforum about it.

I have restrained myself from posting such things because there seems to be an anti-blue-collar vibe around here. "Do things... with... my HANDS??? But I'm an EDUCATED PERSON!!!!" Also most posters are too young to have much experience with constructive hobbies, especially considering society's distaste for actual hands-on work.

If there is a space for such things, then this impression would be disproved.

	Originally Posted by Jezebel
	There should be multiple threads with new posts every day. I have no doubt that there will be people interested in the topics in this category, but will there be enough members interested enough to post there every day? Do we already have a lot of threads on the forum that indicate there is a lot of interest in these topics?

http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=27890 What's for Dinner?
http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=81188 Stuff to do that doesn’t cost a lot of money.
http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?p=2603837 What are you drinking right now?
http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=77497 The 146 Year Old House on 44th
http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=2486 Can you sing?
http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=71048 Let's make something artistic!!!
http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=80571 Destroying $100,000 hand bags now considered art.
http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=80116 Painters?
http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=57424 Hobbies?
http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=79003 Playing guitar for tips?


Quite a few members have things in their blogs which would likely expand out into such a space -- I would, I'll whip open a Gardening thread posthaste -- and Muse will do his metalwork etc.

	Originally Posted by Jezebel
	I'm just going to look up what I need to do to fix it; maybe look up an instructional video on youtube. It's just not that interesting to discuss.

Thats not what is usually discussed in such forums. Threads are usually less "how do I fix this utilitarian thing" and more "Look what I did!" and "Hm, what should I do with this?" and "Have you guys tried x?" and "What the fuck is that?" and "ARGGGGHHHHH how do I make this do what I WANT?!?!" and "I want to achieve X, will method xxx get me there?"

Lots of potential discussion in there.

[Jezebel]

Originally Posted by plotthickens

http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=27890 What's for Dinner? http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=81188 Stuff to do that doesn’t cost a lot of money. http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?p=2603837 What are you drinking right now? http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=77497 The 146 Year Old House on 44th http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=2486 Can you sing? http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=71048 Let's make something artistic!!! http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=80571 Destroying $100,000 hand bags now considered art. http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=80116 Painters? http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=57424 Hobbies? http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=79003 Playing guitar for tips?

I gave a few of the people requesting this subforum thread tagging permissions. Feel free to tag threads you know of with "hh" if you think they might fit in this new subforum. I've already been doing this myself but I might miss some.

Relevant topics would include hobbies, cooking, gardening, diy projects, crafts, automotives, travel and sports.

[JTG]

How important is it that the threads be distinctly out of line with other areas of the forum? The $100,000 purse thread seems "fine arts" to me rather than hobbies/crafts. The rest seem solid.

Upon doing some searches, there are food/cooking/crafting threads in a variety of areas, and many feel somewhat distinct from their homes.

[Jezebel]

	Originally Posted by JTG
	How important is it that the threads be distinctly out of line with other areas of the forum? The $100,000 purse thread seems "fine arts" to me rather than hobbies/crafts. The rest seem solid. Upon doing some searches, there are food/cooking/crafting threads in a variety of areas, and many feel somewhat distinct from their homes.

I think threads about members doing the activity themselves would be the distinguishing factor:

A thread focused on discussing ways to prepare eggs would be a cooking thread and a thread discussing a new study finding that eggs shave 10 years off your life would be in Science and Health. A thread about your favorite impressionist artist would go in Arts and Entertainment and a thread about how to create impressionist art would be a hobby thread.

[plotthickens]

Originally Posted by Jezebel

I think threads about members doing the activity themselves would be the distinguishing factor: A thread focused on discussing ways to prepare eggs would be a cooking thread and a thread discussing a new study finding that eggs shave 10 years off your life would be in Science and Health. A thread about your favorite impressionist artist would go in Arts and Entertainment and a thread about how to create impressionist art would be a hobby thread.

"I made it"

[Amphorian]

	Originally Posted by Jezebel
	While most of us live in homes I'm not convinced DIY topics would do well here either. If my toilet breaks and I want to fix it myself, I'm not going to start a thread on INTJf even if we have a subforum about it. I'm just going to look up what I need to do to fix it; maybe look up an instructional video on youtube. It's just not that interesting to discuss.

But that is what you would do.

There are many members that ask for help here, like what career field they should choose all the way to how to help out with an issue on the computer. I know I made a thread in the Member's Only section one time about the end and out of renting. And if there was a Home & Hobbies section I would have put it there instead.

[Jezebel]

	Originally Posted by Amphorian
	But that is what you would do.

Indeed, but given the target audience of this website and lack of pre-existing active threads I think many would find the topics too mundane for daily discussion. There are a lot of people on the internet interested in discussing home improvement topics. I just don't think they are concentrated on INTJf. It would be different if this were a home improvement themed forum instead of a psychology themed forum.

Home improvement topics and gardening topics would still have a place in this subforum though. I just think the topics needed to be broadened (to more general hobbies) to draw more interest.

[Doomination]

I would be interested in a subforum that includes hobbies (like cooking or something) where you could go over recipes or something. That would be cool. Implying my single opinion matters, I guess.

[Jezebel]

	Originally Posted by Doomination
	Implying my single opinion matters, I guess.

It matters. Feedback is appreciated.

[Amphorian]

Well with further consideration and now going about tagging stuff, perhaps the forum should be named Home and Travel? Travel seems to be of high interest and coincides more with the INTJf intellectual curiosity of cultures, sociology and so forth.

[Muse]

I understand your concern Jezebel (and will do some tagging), but I also wonder if the activity would be partially stimulated rather than entirely moved. Having a set place for it might help. (a time and place for everything kind of thing)

	Originally Posted by Jezebel
	Home improvement topics and gardening topics would still have a place in this subforum though. I just think the topics needed to be broadened (to more general hobbies) to draw more interest.

Economic household decisions (like cost/benefit discussion of solar panels or the HE Washers) is also a topic set that I think people might take interest in due to the recession. The only other place I can think of where home budget topics would be discussed usually are blogs or (indirectly) current events and technology.

	Originally Posted by Amphorian
	Well with further consideration and now going about tagging stuff, perhaps the forum should be named Home and Travel?.

Hmmm... Maybe... Let's get the topic scope (sub topics) listed out first I say, and then work our way up to the Section Name.

I do think the section name is extremely important, and then the sub-headings under it secondary. So since it is the most vital part (the synopsis of the section, first thing people read when looking at it) it might make more sense to name it last.

At first glance, travel as a sub topic might be too far away from home improvement or cooking. Keeping the topics proximal should help eliminate confusion and focus the section in a direction. That's my guess.

(for example, cooking and home budget are often closely related, home budget being the motivation of home cooking usually)

[n8ey]

I would also like to voice my support for this - as having moved into my first home-of-my-own, a 150+ year old farmhouse, I would be interested in sharing my progress in renovating and restoring.

I already take pictures as I explore and try planning things out.

[Espadrille]

@Muse: A lot of these topics are related to lifestyle and I think travel is also.

[Distance]

I'd support this subforum. Love cooking.

[Uriel]

	Originally Posted by Amphorian
	Well with further consideration and now going about tagging stuff, perhaps the forum should be named [...]

	Originally Posted by Espadrille
	Lifestyle.

[Amphorian]

Hmm, I just realized why sports sticks out so oddly. Sports also relate to health and fitness, not just entertainment. Though I think sports are more appropriately placed right now instead of in the Home & Hobbies. Especially since it probably wouldn't be good to split the Science and Health right now, into Science and Math and Health and Fitness (since it has such a low activity).

Basically for team sports I'd go to A&E, but say for martial arts or learning how to run properly I would go to S&H. If we turned the Home & Hobbies into a place for 'lifestyle' (fitness, health, nutrition, self improvement) as well it'd split those topics even more.

Edit: Home and Outdoors might work as a title as well.

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by Jezebel
	I think threads about members doing the activity themselves would be the distinguishing factor:

This seems to be a bit overlooked in the tagging process. I'm seeing spectator sports like car racing and general food topics (not cooking) being tagged with "hh". I don't consider saying something typically [insert ethnicity here] a hobby either.

[Person056]

well at least we would know where all the ISFJs would move to.

and while that was a joke, there was some underlying truth to it. it is true that SJs yearn more towards that stuff and i'm willing to bet there's tons of NTs that need help with that stuff if it isn't one of their "specialty fields".

[Jezebel]

	Originally Posted by Still Standing
	This seems to be a bit overlooked in the tagging process. I'm seeing spectator sports like car racing and general food topics (not cooking) being tagged with "hh".

This is fine. I didn't intend for my post to come across as the final say about everything that might be included. It's going to be Hobbies and "Something" if we do it. A decision about the scope hasn't been made yet. The tags are meant to get a better view of forum activity and get ideas.

[MortalWombat]

If it includes crafts/art/DIY stuff, I'll be there.

[Monte314]

I can't wait to start trolling, flaming and stalking on a sub-forum with FOOD in it!

[ppu6502]

Good, a place to exercise our inferior Extraverted Sensing function