[Branitt]

I went to captains mast for calling my LT. a fucking idiot; it was pretty aggressive and non-physical; was fined 2 grand and put on probation for 180 days. I finally got out after 10 years. During my time in I outperformed everyone else in my field and received LoC twice, Achievement medal twice, presidential citation once, and numerous other awards. I learned a lot about the idocracy of our government and so called leaders. I got to the point where I could not make further change from within, now I'm concentrating on pure education with post 911 GI bill; I will not quit school until I receive my doctorate in psychology and political science...then we will see where it goes from there. My plan is not revenge but to change a failing system, for the most part I am bipartisan, but usually vote democratic.

---in response to Kronic's last post.

[Iridess]

Can someone start a section in this forum for hiring INTJs? I would love to work with INTJ supervisors who don't bull all the time. Just saying : D

[YummyFriedOnion]

Just joined the forum. Having a little crisis of my own in terms of working under someone else in a corporate environment.

Completed my Ph.D. about 2 years back and returned home. First job was with an engineering MNC. The work there was not what they promised, unfulfilling with lots of processes, and was basically repetitive work that added no value technically to me. I spent my nights and weekends continuing my own research and studies. I left after just over 1 year after being misled by false promises from the bosses.

Current job is at a national R&D centre. On the surface, it seems like a good job. The boss likes me, and seems to value my opinions. I was basically hired to do the architecture/design work for software while he handles the management part.

However, my responsibilities have shifted over to more and more management tasks since I started half a year ago, with little time for technical work now. Also, I've lost respect for my boss due to various reasons such as constantly bullshitting (telling wrong things to engineers, simply talking when questioned by senior management during presentations, over-promising on the capabilities of our work to other teams), over-aggressively pushing for too many projects that we have no hope of finishing (his idea is to just do demos and PoCs, and try to talk the other party into accepting our work, but we have always ended up on the losing side eg. having to add features that the other parties want), and other stuff that I'll not write about, but IMO is much worse.

The company culture at the top level (his level and above) seems to be based on these types of behaviours. For example, the CTO bragged about how he bullshitted his way to a deal when we have nothing ready in that area (thus forcing unreasonable deadlines on the engineers).

I realise that stuff like this is rife in most companies. The MNC that I was in just before was also known to have their fair share of rubbish like this - self promotion, bullshit, unrealistic schedules, technically incompetent managers, inefficient processes, etc. - but I personally have a lot of issues working in environments like this.

I've decided not to waste more of my time in working for people like this. My plan is to go back to academia, and use the freedom to do my own research and perhaps run my own consultancy business. Hopefully, I'll have a sense of accomplishment and be able to pursue more interesting problems then.

[cameronransom]

Has anyone read this book on Amazon about introverts? Quiet: the power of introverts to change the word?

I do find it frustrating that introverts don't necessarily get the same attention of more extroverted colleagues.

[dodobird]

I've worked in large mid and small sized enterprises.

I had mixed success in the large corporations. The one large corp with a communicative culture was great, I had a mentor and things were rosy, but I saw the industry starting to crumble and got out. The next two large corps were horrible organizations. Too much nepotism, people getting promotions based on their faith.

The mid and small sized corporations have been great. I now work for a firm with about 800 employees and I have access to most of the execs. I just focus on solutions and getting results. It's gone well.

Another suggestion for an INTJ career is consulting. I consulted with financial software for ten years. It's quite rewarding. You are never at the same place too long so there's no need to develop deep relationships, you are introduced as an expert, there's lots of potential to make positive changes, and whenever someone comes forward with an road block you get to to and tell a VP to do something about it or else the project is going off the rails.

I would have stayed in consulting but my three kids need me at home, and don't like me being on the road as much as I used to.

[xNeutrino]

Great topic, I've skimmed over most of what was in here, and it's great to see how others relate!

Long story short, I personally held a position with a large international accounting firm. I was so motivated and ready to make a great impact on the company, ended up losing my job within a few months. And here's why:

First off, it was a large CPA firm (particularly in the audit department). At the staff level you are not much more than a tool that will carry out lower level tasks. Your main focus is not to be primarily technically inclined, but moreso it will be to fit in with your team(s) and be able to work with different people - so if you are a recent college graduate, please keep this in mind. It is not a naturally dominant priority or function for an INTJ to do this, but it is very important to be more skilled/aware of it working in this type of environment.

Also, I agree with many of the others, keep your mouth shut! Do not try to be the stringent/ethical/judgmental guy you'd expect they would appreciate as an ideal/diligent employee, unless you know for a fact that is what they are expecting from you. My suggestion would be to bite your tongue and accept that the culture is just the way that it is, and continue doing your job and do it well while maintaining friendly relationships with others - even though they may not be up to your standards (those arrogant ESFP!).

I have a question for those of you who can relate - Do you regret standing up for your iNtuition/beliefs about the organization, or if possible, would you rather take the opportunity to go back and have just kept quiet?

Any regrets? I personally don't think I do, it's very bothersome that upper management and corporate cultures behave the way they do; even corrupt to an extent from what I can tell. I honestly get a lot of satisfaction from speaking my mind and truth about my intuition (I think that's the J in me) even if it costed me my job. But moving forward I most definitely have learned about the corporate environment and will be more discreet about my opinions. Any thoughts, advice, opinions? Thanks

[KeepItReal]

I did what was expected and joined a big corporation in my early twenties after finishing my studies. I learnt a lot about what it takes to get ahead, most of which comprised of being exactly the opposite of my INTJ character.

As a young and fairly junior member of staff with little responsibility, I managed to cope, indeed thrive in this environment even though I had to suppress my natural instinct most of the time. I quickly realised that keeping my mouth shut and my eyes and ears open was the best way to deal with my middle managers. I only displayed my real talent and integrity to a select few in the upper echelons of the company who quickly promoted me far higher than anyone else my age.

By 28 I was running my whole department, which is when I hit the inevitable ceiling as I was no longer a nobody and couldn't bite my tongue any more to play the corporate game. My thinking was always in conflict with everyone else at my level as they were in constant pursuit of their own agenda as opposed to what was the actual goal of the company. Doing what was best for themselves instead of what was best for everybody.

It became very apparent that those who were the most inefficient, illogical and self-serving were the ones who moved on up to the very top, which I couldn't tolerate in any way and knew I wouldn't be able to emulate.

I quit and started my own business, it was tough in the beginning but after a couple of years I found my stride and have become very successful with a financial standing vastly superior to anything I could have earned back at my old job, even if I had risen to the highest level.

I would recommend any INTJ do the same, spend a few years in the corporate world, learn all the weaknesses of your company and industry, then start your own business in direct competition. You will be working on your own terms and using your personality traits to their fullest potential, wealth and success is assured.

[Bailalobos]

	Originally Posted by xNeutrino To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Do you regret standing up for your iNtuition/beliefs about the organization, or if possible, would you rather take the opportunity to go back and have just kept quiet?

I was a consultant for 12 years for an ERP company working exclusively w/higher education. I'd reached a high level of competence and client trust, mostly by actually listening to their needs and not delivering the canned crap Corporate expected us to...they were only focused on how many hours we were billing the client. A reorg put me in a new unit managed by a smug p**** who loved being toady-ed to (e.g., virtual celebrations of his birthday!). He hired 3 consultants who were all unprofessional and inexperienced...but towed his line. One shadowed me for a session; I had to ask her to leave the room because she began to take over the session and antagonise the client. I noticed my gigs being scaled back bit by bit; when asked he said "oh no worries, new contracts are in the works." Shortly thereafter I got the sack, "purely for financial reasons." Apparently the last straw for him/Corp was my last assignment working w/a prominent private university...after doing a readiness assessment I told them they were in excellent shape and didn't need me to come back. I couldn't/wouldn't have done otherwise because my ethics were on the line. This was a hard blow, knocking me back into job hunting in a horrible economy and setting me back considerably salary-wise. Would I have kept quiet and done what they wanted? NO, heavy though the price was...I had to look myself in the mirror each day and had to see a person I respected.

[Network Ball]

I've found the culture can be terrible no matter how big or small the company, though it's much less likely to be good at a big company.

I worked for a small business of about a dozen people and it was pretty good. The biggest challenge here was just being a yes-man to my boss, the owner. Quickly I learned it was easier to just do what I knew was best and ask for forgiveness later. You pay me money to do my job; let me do it. In the end my decisions were good ones and the boss learned to trust that I knew my domain better than he did.

I worked for an international firm with 30k employees and it was terrible. There was no recognition (i.e. $$$) for my superior achievements and they were happy to churn through employees to keep salaries low. Eventually I throttled back my output since I was tired of being thanked for how great everything I did was but with no money to back it up.

The current company I work for has about 250 employees and it was absolutely fantastic. Then the CEO retired and was replaced by a sociopath. Nepotism became rampant. The CEO has installed friends who have no clue what they are doing, and then those friends install their friends. At the end of the day we have lots of people who aren't at all the best fit for what the company is trying to do, and those of us at lower strati end up with impossible problems to solve because of management incompetence.

I'm not one to bite my tongue, so I tell it how it is and the sarcasm flies. I feel it is not respectful to me as an employee to put me in this situation to begin with. I get written up every time on my annual performance evaluation about it, but otherwise they love my work. I'm looking for another job, but every job interview presents red flags which indicate it might be even worse than what I'm trying to escape currently.

[pip]

There are two little words which will make your skin crawl: Mandatory Training.