[Marcus Septim]

I'd hate the whole concept
I don't wanna convince you buying anything,i don't give a flying fuck

I'd be terrible at convincing people and it would also being soul scaring for me

It would have to be the last job on the earth for me to try it and even then i would be reluctant of the results

[SoundofSilence]

I am too objective to be a good salesman.

[FruitLoop]

I work ok in a sales team as the "bomber". My job is to wait quietly, collect data, and analyse. At the end, if the deal cannot close it's my job to "bomb" the conversation with a pretty blunt closer using hefty logic, and try to shock the target into agreeing. It's often highly amusing. Well, afterwards its highly amusing.. lol

[wrongjargon]

I like focusing on the bad things first before working my way up to the good things. That said, it's hard to sell a product by introducing its bad points first. Besides, if I don't like or won't use a product myself, I won't be convincing enough to sell it to anyone. I am terrible at that kind of thing.

[Artio]

I'd hate it and I'm pretty sure I couldn't find motivation to do it... so, I'd suck.

[nashburn8]

I used to do telemarketing and I fucking hated it. I also sold shoes for 2 weeks at Payless- worst gig ever. I hate trying to talk to shitheads that I would normally never converse with.

[samschaf]

I worked in a bookstore for 2 years in high school. I signed up for the reading part; forcing people into memberships and promotions was a little draining at times. I did well overall as I was keen and positive but long shifts left me needing some introvert recovery time.

[Chameleon]

It will eat your soul...but if you are okay with that. My INTJs become very efficient in sales, learning quickly, and excelling. They love money and chase it like a starved lion after prey. However, it is my belief that INTJs are far too self critical for the ups and downs of sales; having trouble letting go of failure that likely was not their fault in the first place. It is definitely a growing experience for them; but a lot (as usual) depends on the components of their bosses.

[kaa325]

Originally Posted by Chameleon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It will eat your soul...but if you are okay with that. My INTJs become very efficient in sales, learning quickly, and excelling. They love money and chase it like a starved lion after prey. However, it is my belief that INTJs are far too self critical for the ups and downs of sales; having trouble letting go of failure that likely was not their fault in the first place. It is definitely a growing experience for them; but a lot (as usual) depends on the components of their bosses.

I agree with you. It was one of the hardest things I had to learn during my experience and I still have a hard time dealing with it. In fact, I'm looking very closely at my self-criticism to make sure that I don't go too far down that dark path of everything being my fault.

[Sharp]

As part of my university co-op program, my first work term was a sales position at an Online software firm. I accepted the job because I had little work experience prior and couldn't be too picky.

Much of our success hinged on building rapport with people over the phone. I generally detest small talk and having conversations that lead nowhere...so it was a painful 4 months for me.

Still, despite my predisposition to fail horribly at sales (which I did for the first month...grand total of $0), I got cheesed by the fact that I was the last of 8 sales reps. So I actually made a script for myself and just ran it through 50 calls a day until it became semi-natural. I ended up doing alright in the end...about the upper-middle of the pack, but it actually took effort...something that I'm not used to having to put in.

[Alberto]

it seems we INTJs hate selling stuff.
I can only confirm that.

I should tell big lies and pose in order to sell.
I should even flatter your worst sides, or ignore something totally unintelligent (anathema!) that you may have said.
I should keep smiling also if I have nothing to smile about.
I should go along well with prejudices.
I should small talk and respect every given social codex.

I don't know how to do all those things, duh! I am used to keep my mind as tidy as I can!

---------- Post added 05-26-2012 at 03:23 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Thinker To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If you want to be effective in any role you should learn how to sell. CEO's sell concepts to investors, banks, governments and other stakeholders. If you are trying to implement a new process or system...you will need to sell it. Selling and negotiating skills are very important.

well, that's simple: I do the whole hypercomplicated crazy system.
They do the negotiation and the sell!

[RedN]

All I have to do is lie my ass off about what Im selling right? eh... yeah? hahahaha

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by Marcus Septim To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'd hate the whole concept I don't wanna convince you buying anything,i don't give a flying fuck I'd be terrible at convincing people and it would also being soul scaring for me It would have to be the last job on the earth for me to try it and even then i would be reluctant of the results

INTJs have a few things going for them in sales--

they can be very diligent, disciplined and hard-working, and...

they don't tend to be terribly hurt by rejection in this arena.

BUT...

Sales favors

1) Those with a preference for Fe, and
2) Extroverts

[Samoan Corleone]

I worked in telesales for three months. Results were a bit slow on my first day (and by slow, I mean completely blowing our equivalent of the Glengarry leads), but I got better. The boss was pretty patient and showed me a few tricks, like not giving the recipient too much time to think about whether they have enough time to answer "four easy questions" and just launching into the first one (there had to be a 'beat' of course, but not too long), saying you had "just four easy questions" when you actually had five, and other stuff.

It was good money, and less physically strenuous than some other jobs I've worked. I enjoyed the competitiveness and the banter between my temporary workmates too; it was like being on the sports field again. Also, some of the angry responses I got from would-be clients were hilarious!
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[slug]

My uncle was an introvert, not sure exactly what type. He "fell into" a sales job when the only salesman quit and his boss promoted him to the position. He actually did well at it. The customers found it refreshing that he was unlike the other high pressure salesman. He was quiet and honest and let the the customers make up their own minds. This was business to business office supplies.

I personally like selling my own designs or creations. I let my work speak for itself and that does most of the selling. However, that's only one aspect of what I do, not the whole job. I think I would find be a full time "salesperson" too stressful.

[Booko]

I hated most aspects of sales. If I'm involved on the technical end of things, fine, and usually the more technical the product the better. But I am not the person you want cold calling or working at the front end of the sales pipeline.

I've had a side business in landscape consulting for years, but my best friend is my partner. She's an ESTJ and her ENFP husband is an insurance salesman and they've both worked in sales for years, so they know what they're doing.

What my ESTJ friend brings to the table is how to manage clients on a person-to-person level so business is profitable and they're satisfied.

I also learned a great deal from her about the nuts and bolts of customer service. I wasn't bad at it before, but now I'm much much better. Which is good, because now I have clients in my own business and I can see how I would be worse at it absent what I learned from my friend.

[wunderkind]

I worked on more sales or sales related positions. Some of them were okey others difficult for me. Some of my points:
1) Product/service is more impportant for your success than your personality.
2) For INTJs it is not problem to be in sales position where they are appproached by customers, but it is much more difficult for them to force contact with the customers (such as cold calling ... ).
3) So called "persuative skills" are overrated, while you may not be 100 % sincere in general it is much better aproach than lying and extorting customers ... customers are making their minds mostly rationally, based on product qualities not your personality.
4) As mentioned here in some posts above, many managers or other salesmen view sales as a kind of religion, forcing rules based on their persuation not evidence ... in some cases INTJ may be forced out just for "not fitting" without respect to sales results.

[Acolyte]

I say I would do great in sales, however after observing my own results in persuading other people by mere facts and figures I cooled off and devised the direction of personal development. I'm a terrible communicator at times, sometimes even not being able to construct a well though out sentence, thus why I took a new role at service desk to develop my people's skills and become more of an E than I, and so far I've noticed a marginal improvement.
Sales are made emotionally and then justified logically, however it's subject to kind of person you're selling it to which you need to recognize upfront in just under a few first sentences. It's never a good idea to concentrate on bottom line (i.e. you get this and that when spending this much, which is lower X than our next competitor). Part of INTJ personality is Visionary which is where the next development should be focused on. This is so that you can develop yourself not just in details but in abstract, theoretical or high level concept areas that move people instead of cold hard facts.

[PovertyPenalty]

Originally Posted by Alberto To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

it seems we INTJs hate selling stuff. I can only confirm that. I should tell big lies and pose in order to sell. I should even flatter your worst sides, or ignore something totally unintelligent (anathema!) that you may have said. I should keep smiling also if I have nothing to smile about. I should go along well with prejudices. I should small talk and respect every given social codex. ---------- Post added 05-26-2012 at 03:23 AM ----------

I got a job when I was fifteen selling vacuums. I was absolutely horrible in the beginning, but I needed the money so I stuck through and learned to play pretend. Even though I never needed to tell big lies, I did need to pose and pay attention to my body language. It's amazing what a little body language can do, especially when you learn to manipulate it. There were a lot of stupid comments and stupid people that I needed to gloss over, but I had to keep telling myself that they're everywhere and I eventually got used to it.

Small talk was really difficult, but if I told people what they wanted to hear they left thinking I was their best friend. That includes agreeing with their prejudices and misunderstandings of society (barf).

Even though our disposition is to hate sales I'll argue that we have the potential to be awesome salesmen. We have the ability to see past backstabbing political bullshit that is rampant in any sales job -- we all just need to learn how to use it for our own advantage. Sadly, that includes having to play extrovert which is incredibly taxing. My biggest hurdle was learning how to express my ideas to customers. I would give them the facts very matter-of-factly and expect them to just get it, but as I learned to express myself the sales kept coming.

[Muse]

I used to work in sales. I did well because I was good at convincing people and also very informative/intelligent. However, I am also quite friendly and kind in person, as well as being very good at conversation and small talk (though it isn't my favorite thing).

I had some of these things going in, and improved quickly during my work. I think any INTJ can do well in sales if they try hard enough.

One thing I should mention though, I'm against hustling a product because I think it is dishonest and a bit manipulative. If in conversation I found that it was unlikely to improve a customers life, I didn't push it. My employer didn't notice and my numbers were still good. Some of those customers enjoyed our conversation enough to remember me and recomended other potential customers.

[Dangime]

Almost all of my jobs have been in sales. At 17 I started out in a retail electronics store selling hardware. Because I was into computers myself and found them fun and useful, I never had any problem selling computers or related products. The problems arose when we had to sell insurance plans. Plans which had very little chance of paying off in the long run against their cost.

Also, if I caught any whiff of corruption, lies, or double standards within the organization, I knew I needed to start looking for a new job fast. Once I lost faith in the "system" or the "product" it was all down hill from there and there was no turning back. I find great amusement in the fact that the vast majority of companies I have worked for in the past are now out of business.

After some bad experiences with sales jobs I developed the "Google Rule" for myself. Basically if I was going to have to sell a product daily that an average person could find significantly cheaper and of the same quality by spending 5 minutes on Google searching for it, I wouldn't take the job. In my mind it would just be ripping people off. That's what a lot of sales is...taking people in because its either convenient for the customer or they just don't know or care enough. Sometimes people have other reasons for buying stuff other than just logic. Luxury anything....never sold luxury goods, probably couldn't.

Luckily I got into being a brand representative instead. It has sales aspects but they are muted. Basically I went into the same kind of retail environment, but only tried to influence people to prefer my brand over another. Also I didn't really have to interact with the nazi leadership of the stores, which was a big plus. I couldn't handle their irrational attitudes and power trips. I did have to make it clear who I worked for, and who I didn't work for sometimes though. It allowed me to make my own ethical calls. If my brand sucked for a certain situation I just said so, and invited the customers to come back to my brand if their needs fell into any of our strengths later.

Now I'm out of sales entirely. I recently turned down a job that would have been more hours/money because I didn't believe in the product and would have just become an emotional wreck even trying (selling credit cards). I'm glad I didn't need the money and hope I never have to again, but sales was a good way to jump start my finances early in life.

[12ax7]

I read this article about becoming a car salesman after somebody posted it in another thread:

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it basically confirmed that I'd be terrible. I think my conscience would hate me...

[RCOEI]

Most of my work has been in sales; same with my INTJ uncle. As far as my success, I selected "OK." I am terrible at certain positions (eg. coldcalling homeowners). With in-person sales (such as insurance), managers either over-estimate or under-estimate my ability, but seldom see it accurately. I've had some, such as a former ESFJ boss, who constantly pestered me about my personality, attempting to make me into a clone of him. When he left, and was replaced by a female boss who liked me, my performance improved. Thus, I'd say my success depends partly on whether I'm allowed to act naturally, even though I don't have a typical sales personality. In any case, I don't like sales and am seeking an alternative path. Unfortunately, sales is all people want to recruit me for, since it's all that's on my resume....

[frontaLobotomy]

I've worked in sales over the years, it's a job <shrug>