[Autumnleaf]

There are places where terrorists are trained in thought. Whether that thought is Islamic extremism or anti-government American ideology etc... Should such places and teachers be identified and placed on President Obama's kill list? Should they be left alone so we can pick up the pieces after an attack has been launched? Should they be coerced by undercover cops into prosecution for conspiracy to commit crimes? What do you think?

[JTG]

The ideology of "dealing with" others is a contributing factor in the spread of terrorist mentality.

Part of "dealing with" them means "dealing with" our own attitudes concerning foreign cultures and hegemony

[Autumnleaf]

	Originally Posted by JTG To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The ideology of "dealing with" others is a contributing factor in the spread of terrorist mentality. Part of "dealing with" them means "dealing with" our own attitudes concerning foreign cultures and hegemony

The answer to violence seldom lies in appeasement.

Weeds need to be identified and dealt with at the root or they come back.

I don't think there is a 'nice' way to deal with terrorists that works. I think the kindest way is probably terrible overwhelming force initially to eradicate it as deep as it goes. When those who know the ideas are dead and the books are burned, what is left will be ignorance. That is how to control people. That is how the young will never grow to fight their oppressors if they know no better.

[JTG]

Is it "appeasement" to fuck off and let people live their own lives? The US meddles in foreign affairs constantly and steps on others in the process. This generates a lot of resentment, which the US then takes as an excuse to further meddle and step on others.

The opposite of
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is not appeasement

[Subgenius]

You do realize we trained a lot of these terrorist leaders in american intelligence gathering and american covert operations, right? Teaching hate isn't the problem.
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.

[Sk8ordude]

They strap bombs to themselves and walk into crowds of their own people and detonate, should people like that be allowed to seize control of whole governments and the warfare capabilities of the modern world?

[Dangime]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Sure, taking out terrorists with force is the only permanent way to deal with them, but that doesn't make it cost effective. I think I gave the example in the other thread, but the money spent on Iraq and Afganistan could have been spent far more efficently, wither it had been on death dealing or just useful domestic projects to make life better. All we did is enrich a few banks and contractors. Whoopie.

Iraq = Oil
Afganistan = Opium

Big Globalist Business interest. "Terrorists" are often baited through debilerate acts of instigation, or are playing for the same team, so the masses can be manipulated into the (stupid) act of war. What was the saying, if you're worried about dying from a terrorist attack, stop smoking and buckle your safety belt. That's what really kills people.

[Subgenius]

	Originally Posted by Dangime To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think I gave the example in the other thread, but the money spent on Iraq and Afganistan could have been spent far more efficently, wither it had been on death dealing or just useful domestic projects to make life better. All we did is enrich a few banks and contractors. Whoopie.

Hardly, Terrorism isn't really a bad thing on a macro scale and in the interests of American strategy. It keeps an explosive region with a history of religious and ethnic violence in the name of various caliphates chaotic to the point where no one is capable of making a regional power because of all the bad blood between themselves. Destabilizing the region is good for American interests globally. Terrorists just feed into this whole cycle.

How sustainable this strategy is over a long period of time(hundreds of years) is another question not easily answered until actual aggression occurs from a force/coalition that is actually able to do massive damage to the US and it's interests. That's relatively hard to do since we control the oceans.

[Daoist]

Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

There are places where terrorists are trained in thought. Whether that thought is Islamic extremism or anti-government American ideology etc... Should such places and teachers be identified and placed on President Obama's kill list? Should they be left alone so we can pick up the pieces after an attack has been launched? Should they be coerced by undercover cops into prosecution for conspiracy to commit crimes? What do you think?

A complicated question. I doubt blowing them into non-existence will really do much to refute their ideology - but something needs to be done. Your honeypot idea is probably the best sort of approach.

I'll just note what's not going on at these places - education. They don't teach people how to think, because that would be counterproductive. The results are of course not just bad for us, but bad for them as well.

[Dangime]

Originally Posted by Subgenius To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hardly, Terrorism isn't really a bad thing on a macro scale and in the interests of American strategy. It keeps an explosive region with a history of religious and ethnic violence in the name of various caliphates chaotic to the point where no one is capable of making a regional power because of all the bad blood between themselves. Destabilizing the region is good for American interests globally. Terrorists just feed into this whole cycle. How sustainable this strategy is over a long period of time(hundreds of years) is another question not easily answered until actual aggression occurs from a force/coalition that is actually able to do massive damage to the US and it's interests. That's relatively hard to do since we control the oceans.

A "regional power" is far easier for the USA to deal with than a handful of crazies with IEDs and AKs. A regional power has supply lines, it has foreign interests, it has trade deals, more importantly, it has a organized military with tanks, airplanes, and ships. Letting a "regional power" form then simply breaking its back when its convinent would be very easy to do compared to fighting multple guerilla wars. This is because our military is still best suited to fighting conventional armies (and strategic bombing if it came to that).

Except for the X factor of nuclear weapons...I'd say let them waste their money on the trappings of conventional war machines.

[zibber]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The answer to violence seldom lies in appeasement.

What of the ideological and intellectual violence of the Terror narrative and the spectacular amount of physical violence (far outweighing anything conventionally considered Terror) it is used to justify? You seem quite unmoved by those.

[INTelliJent]

Originally Posted by Daoist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

A complicated question. I doubt blowing them into non-existence will really do much to refute their ideology - but something needs to be done. Your honeypot idea is probably the best sort of approach. I'll just note what's not going on at these places - education. They don't teach people how to think, because that would be counterproductive. The results are of course not just bad for us, but bad for them as well.

Subgenius already accurately spoke to this: Terrorism is good for the US and European governments.

[plotthickens]

Same as every other fundamentalist. Leave them alone unless they hurt someone. Current methods with attendant 'collateral damage' are obviously not helping.

[Autumnleaf]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Same as every other fundamentalist. Leave them alone unless they hurt someone. Current methods with attendant 'collateral damage' are obviously not helping.

How do you know they aren't helping?

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How do you know they aren't helping?

[HIDE="If things havent changed how are they better?"]
WAS: elevated
IS: elevated


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[/HIDE]

[HIDE="More money, less results, more bodies"]


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[/HIDE]

[HIDE="If terrorism were lessened then killings should be going down right?"]

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[/HIDE]

[Traverser]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How do you know they aren't helping?

Seriously? From one estimate, for every "militant" killed by drone, at least ten civilians are taken with them.
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! Currently, the Pentagon remains very reluctant to discuss data concerning casualties from all sides, because they know that it's terribly lopsided against the very people they claim to be helping. At least 132,000 civilians have died in Iraq and Afghanistan
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. Surely some of them were killed by terrorist groups, but the others...most certainly by western forces.

So it's little wonder why the war continues, because the U.S. is giving plenty of reasons for a jihad against it.

[raimius]

If someone is willing to both kill and die for their cause, there is little to be done except to remove their capacity to inflict harm. Usually, the party in power imprisons those people or kills them when their cause includes the ruling party's destruction. The real key is breaking the cycle that creates terrorists like that. If you get rid of the fanatics and tilt the cost/benefit analysis against terrorism for those contemplating it, you'll win.

If someone's family is killed, a natural human response would be a desire for vengeance. So, violence does breed violence. Reducing the number of people who strongly want to commit violence is one aspect. Limiting their resources is another. Diminishing the causes for anger is a very effective way to marginalize terrorist groups. Historically, many insurgencies have been put down by a combination of killing or capturing the leadership and reforming areas where people had legitimate complaints. In the current war in Southwest Asia, western forces seem VERY good at targeting terrorist leadership. Marginalizing the complaints that the common people have against "the west" or their local leadership seems to be more of a challenge.

[Ghostwheel]

	Originally Posted by Sk8ordude To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	They strap bombs to themselves and walk into crowds of their own people and detonate, should people like that be allowed to seize control of whole governments and the warfare capabilities of the modern world?

As opposed to people who kill by remote-controlled drones as though life and death were just a fucking arcade game?
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The American perspective: our violence = necessary, heroic and justified; their violence = barbaric, gratuitous and just plain wrong.

[jman90000]

the best way to deal with the terrorism problem is foreign aid.

[INTelliJent]

Foreign aid: Taking from the poor people in one country and giving to the rich people in another country.

[thod]

	or anti-government American ideology etc.

So kill the libertarians and the tea party? Is it only foreigners or can we kill domestic undesirables too?

[raimius]

	Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So kill the libertarians and the tea party? Is it only foreigners or can we kill domestic undesirables too?

Well, technically most of them are for minimal government or government limited to Constitutionally mentioned functions.

It appears that more anarchists attached themselves to the occupy movement than the tea party.

[Savagelight]

Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

There are places where terrorists are trained in thought. Whether that thought is Islamic extremism or anti-government American ideology etc... Should such places and teachers be identified and placed on President Obama's kill list? Should they be left alone so we can pick up the pieces after an attack has been launched? Should they be coerced by undercover cops into prosecution for conspiracy to commit crimes? What do you think?

The ideology isn't what causes terrorism. Terrorism is caused by the emotions of fear and hate. Any words or ideology which can stoke enough fear and hate can cause people to take action. There are other emotions such as love and compassion which can also be exploited.

If you want to end all terrorism you gotta release a pill to kill off all the emotions that cause it.

[FruitLoop]

Blinding white flash?

[Betamax]

When we talk about terrorists, we mean middle eastern people. Nobody mentions the IRA,they use different tactics. Each situation has to be dealt with differently. Keep in mind we have been in the middle east much longer than we act like. Since the 50's when the soviets were there we have been there. To these people all they know is that we kill their citizens and that we have been there for as long as they can remember.

Keep in mind most terrorists are poor farmer types, they don't have google to research for themselves. Most of them have no idea 911 happened or that we as a nation have gone to the moon. All they know is that we have been in their country for a long time and they don't want us to be there.

So come home, that's how we solve our problem with middle eastern terrorists. As for anarchists, IRA, or cartel trafficking. That's a different problem altogether.

The problem with the war on terror, is that we group all terrorists together... pretty obvious conclusion.