How are you with ESTPs

**RedN** · 05-25-2012, 02:13 PM

How are you with ESTPs?

How do you get along or feel towards ESTPs?

Any tips on interacting with them or ESTPs dealing with you?

Again, just say whatever even if its mean as hell or nice or whatever, info is info right?

Thank youuuuuu!!!

**MrFlaneur** · 05-25-2012, 02:28 PM

Con artists, predatory paedophiles, organised sociopaths, bottom feeders.

Welcome to the forum.

**RedN** · 05-25-2012, 02:39 PM

See... I actually learned something new here when it made me search for bottom feeder in the urban dictionary out of curiosity

and there was a funny one for it:

A girl or guy who at the end of a night out (club, pub,
bar, etc) whom has failed to hook up, or pull. either because of their apparent lack of game or just because they are unatractive unless you've consumed massive ammounts of alcohol. Usually the later. They are usually preyed on by those who choose to get some action easily.

Bottom Feeders are also found in large numbers at dive bars usually in groups.

Beware there is always a Cock Blocker in the bunch!!
There is also a good chance there is a good looking girl in the group, bottom feeders keep her around to attract the single guys hoping that they will talk to them instead of their hot friend. The opposite of this is that the hot girl has low self esteem and hangs out with the bottom feeders to make herself feel prettier.
she is also easy pickings...

and here's another:
Somebody who pays for hookers, and then fails to have sex with them

hahahahahaaaa

thank you for the input!!!
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**MrFlaneur** · 05-25-2012, 02:43 PM

I don't mean to offend you but I have had some very bad experiences with ESTPs. I'm drawn to them like a moth to a flame for some reason. They innately know how to find my weak spots (like no other type) and they aren't afraid of applying a bit of pressure to them either. I must have a neon sign on my back saying "mug/sucker" that only ESTPs can see.

	Originally Posted by RedN To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	A girl or guy who at the end of a night out (club, pub, bar, etc) whom has failed to hook up, or pull.

Pull? Are you British? It's friday night, shouldn't you be out and about getting mullered?

Tell me your ESTP secrets please. What makes you tick?

**Smacknrat** · 05-25-2012, 02:50 PM

They're great to be around and somehow you get to feel you should be friends with them (and mostly there's no reason NOT to be), but they're about the most unreliable bunch I've known.

Always have an alternative thing on your plate you plan on doing something with an ESTP.

Also, they seem like N's, but they're really just picking out entertaining events, technology, and media to fulfill their constant need for sensory indulgence.

I kinda feel backstabbed by them... and they're good at talking themselves up and other down. Worth keeping an eye on them for entertainment value, but I wouldn't follow them into abstract fields (they never venture there anyhow except for entertainment). I pick up on the impression that they don't want me following them into group events.

They have a categorization thing going on in their head (they're like INTPs and have a secondary Ti). So they pick up on "wierd" things... and guess exactly what INTJs are once an ESTP gets to know an INTJ.

The one I've know for a long time once called me "bourgeois" and "need to be slapped off his high horse".... and I never understood how or why that was said.

Anyway, they also have a feeling of being hurt by others or being a "friend of convenience" even if there's evidence to the contrary.

---------- Post added 05-25-2012 at 01:53 PM ----------

They're good at giving out nicknames and getting excited about themselves. They can come up with interesting projects but good luck every getting them to sit down for a learning session.

Two ESTPs I know (see, they already have me promoting them):

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**MrFlaneur** · 05-25-2012, 02:54 PM

	Originally Posted by Smacknrat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The one I've know for a long time once called me "bourgeois" and "need to be slapped off his high horse".... and I never understood how or why that was said.

Thats very ununsual, they have a habit of keeping their cards very close to their chest and certainly don't reveal what they think about others if its derogatory.

**Smacknrat** · 05-25-2012, 02:55 PM

They don't like to share their emotions and they do run for the hills as soon as emotions get involved.

**MrFlaneur** · 05-25-2012, 02:59 PM

They don't have emotions, other than fury at being beat at their own game. The Fe is there to entice and exploit.

**Smacknrat** · 05-25-2012, 03:00 PM

	Originally Posted by MrFlaneur To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Thats very ununsual, they have a habit of keeping their cards very close to their chest and certainly don't reveal what they think about others if its derogatory.

Heh... Which makes sense since I haven't really been hearing much from that one ever since that time. Guess they made an internal classification and had too much negative things to say to bother sharing anymore.

---------- Post added 05-25-2012 at 02:08 PM ----------

A good comment was made about the MBTI from that same ESTP friend:
"This [MBTI] is like horoscopes"

They usually read up and move on. They tend to read the Please, Understand Me II book.

**Distance** · 05-25-2012, 03:10 PM

ESTP men are awesome! They provide a sense of fun and security, the dom-tert matchup of Se. They also don't mind sharing the lead with natural give and take handoffs.

But they can also be exhausting with their need to talk and socialise.

Not fond of the few ESTP women I've interacted with. There's a tangible dominance game dynamic. They must lead but lack long-term thinking which rubs my Te-Ni fur the wrong way. *Meow...pffsss....pffsss....*

**RedN** · 05-25-2012, 03:22 PM

Well, its not really hard to see a persons weak spots, you just interact with em and observe? You'll know youre hitting it by how they react from the pressure youre applying as you said. The more you keep hitting them, the more they start showing more and more... exposing what they are like as a person... then obviously once you know how a person ticks then... there you go? If not, adjust and try a different approach?

Conflicts arise when you see that they want something that you either cant give or dont want to give I guess?

Oh I do have a party to go to later tonight. If youre nearby you can come.

As for what makes me tick, I read this from an ESTP forum, "I was too busy being awesome to think about it". Hihihihihihi just joking. We all have good points, its just a matter of using them and being mindful of them when interacting with others and just adjust accordingly? Know when to unleash or restrain yourself helps?

Smack,

hmmm interesting. Ill admit i have said or felt the last 2 myself. but I guess it does happen too that people really do just take advantage of us, thinking we're that loose and easy... i dont know...

I wonder, wont it be possible to sorta force an ESTP to become reliable and predictable by constantly supplying him/her with sensory pleasures?

As for introverts of sorts hanging out with me or us, you kow one time we were chilling out to end the night and I just noticed that we were actually with another person, I didnt really notice him there til one of my friends asked him something and on like 1 hour of all of us talking, all he said was "I'm into 2D girls". I really dont mind believe me and the others dont seem bothered by him being there. What I wont be cool with is if this person that is not being noticed, for not being noticeable and not saying anything at all, would start getting bitter and start hating us who are getting some just because - like we dont hate you, so why hate us you know, its not our fault.

ADD:
I guess we talk a lot to others coz maybe thats where our strength is, how we can grow an advantage over them maybe even?

Distance:
A
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pet pet

**Smacknrat** · 05-25-2012, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by RedN
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Smack,

hmmm interesting. Ill admit i have said or felt the last 2 myself. but I guess it does happen too that people really do just take advantage of us, thinking we're that loose and easy... i dont know...

I wonder, wont it be possible to sorta force an ESTP to become reliable and predictable by constantly supplying him/her with sensory pleasures?

As for introverts of sorts hanging out with me or us, you kow one time we were chilling out to end the night and I just noticed that we were actually with another person, I didnt really notice him there til one of my friends asked him something and on like 1 hour of all of us talking, all he said was "I'm into 2D girls". I really dont mind believe me and the others dont seem bothered by him being there. What I wont be cool with is if this person that is not being noticed, for not being noticeable and not saying anything at all, would start getting bitter and start hating us who are getting some just because - like we dont hate you, so why hate us you know, its not our fault.

Yep. Def. gave enticing them a try, trust me, but between a large group of friends and social engagements for an ESTP and INTJs not liking to deviate from "Plan A", it can be a catalyst to leave the friendship on casual grounds. ESTPs don't seem to mind from a distance as they don't seem to initiate contact....

INTJs really value close relationships so having to adjust the relationship so that there's more distance can be somewhat of a soulsearching moment if they've been close friends or if they're people you want to be friends with.

**RedN** · 05-25-2012, 04:13 PM

Well in my interactions with people who seem... well difficult to persuade to move, I have initiated contact but constant denials will of course make me stop trying.

I guess to me for ex, I dont mind if im initiating a majority of the time, but if its always ME then... you have to give some effort too right. This applies to not just talking or hanging out, but interaction in general.

I mean, if you project that you want to be left alone and fortify taht with your actions/inactions, then I guess thats what we should give you? and leave you alone?

I hear this a lot here but Im open to the idea that it may not mean the same to us, so when you say close relationships here waht do you exactly mean?

Are you talking about closed? in the sense that its a 1 on 1 deal and there are no others or distractions int he relationship like 3rd parties? or the party is jsut comprised of people you are also close friends with?

or close as in being open and extroing on each other? but there we are naturally doing that already arent we?... so its not us pushing the distance, if instead we try to close the gap right?

or in a physical sense? like hanging out more often?

**Smacknrat** · 05-25-2012, 05:15 PM

Yeah, one, two, or all of the above. =)

via:
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Table 1.2
Characteristics of Relationships (Adapted from Hinde, 1995)

The content of the interactions. What do the people do together? What is their usually interaction pattern like?
The diversity of types of interaction within the relationship. The more types of activity the people do together, the more experiences are shared.
The qualities of the interactions. Did the people communicate constructively, competitively, loudly, softly, lovingly? Both content analysis of speech and nonverbal behavior will be relevant data. As important is what the people think about the merits and qualities of their relationship.
The relative frequency and patterning of relationships. This category includes the extent to which interactions of different types are jointly present. This characteristic pertains to the structure of the relationship (e.g., controlling or permissive interactions).
The reciprocity vs. complementarity nature of the interactions. This distinction refers to the need for which satisfaction is sought in a relationship. Do the people reciprocate behaviors or complement one another (e.g., one is introverted and one extraverted)? Most close relationships involve a complex and idiosyncratic mix of reciprocal and complentarity interactive patterns.
Power and autonomy. Issues of power and autonomy are part of the complementarity pattern. One partner can be said to have power over the other if he or she can influence the quality of the consequences of other's behavior. How power is exerted may be assessed by the quality of the interactions (e.g., persuasion vs. command). If one person in a relationship exercises power, that reduces the other's autonomy. But what is critical is how the power differential is perceived by the other. Lack of agreement about the exercise of power can lead to conflict.
Intimacy-the extent to which the people reveal themselves (emotionally, cognitively, and physically) to each other. Intimacy requires the person making the disclosure to feel understood, validated, and cared for and is thus related to trust (see discussion of "minding theory in Chapter 6 on maintenance and enhancement of close relationships).
Interpersonal perception. Does one partner see the other as the other really is? Does one partner see the other as the other sees self? Does one partner feel understood by how the other partner sees him or her? Does the couple see the world outside the relationship in similar ways? These are critical questions for closeness.
Commitment. Do the partners strive to ensure the continuation of the relationship or improve its quality? Does each see the other as committed?
Satisfaction. Do the people perceive the relationship as close to their ideal, or preferable to other relationship they could be in?

**Ghostwheel** · 05-25-2012, 06:06 PM

Can you tell which boy is the ESTP and which is the INTJ?
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I do confess, though, that ESTPs seem to have much more fun than we do. They enjoy life so much more. I have already petitioned Buddha so that in my next life I can be a six-foot-four ESTP pro ball player/rock guitarist/movie star.

I'm going to try to avoid being the schoolyard bully, however.

**RedN** · 05-25-2012, 06:23 PM

ghost, em... the estp is the one being bullied? and to add, you dont have to be one, you can just go out with one and enjoy the ride?

smack,
well... what do you intj's like doing? I mean ok... you for example what do you like to do that involves another human?

but the idea from what you posted is... just to have a matching interest then? I mean on all of those items on the list?

And theres a lot to say and consider there then coz its not just that simple out there.

Interpersonal perception - like this one, its not just about me being accurate or not in seeing who you are but if you are in denial or you have a misconceived, twisted or self inflated view of yourself which factually isnt true... then, even if i do see you for how you truely are then you may still think im wrong but im not.

In that long list, I can say that its about how flexible both parties are and willing to twist a little. Coz once one party starts wanting a perfect scene to what he or she wants then... that will break it. i wont say its impossible but its not really feasible

**Booko** · 05-25-2012, 06:39 PM

You can spot them a mile away because they would ask a question like this:

	Originally Posted by RedN To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How do you get along or feel towards ESTPs?

But an INTJ would ask it like this:

"How do you get along with or what do you think of ESTPs?"


	Any tips on interacting with them or ESTPs dealing with you?

Yeah, don't ask an NT how they "feel" about things unless you want an answer like "What does that have to do with anything?"

Just sayin'

Of the ESTPs I've known, most of my reactions have been:

You Can Stop Tooting Your Own Horn Anytime Now

and

Leap Before You Look won't work as well as you imagine it will

However, I've worked with a couple of ESTPs on projects where their enthusiasm and ability to get The Masses on board with the project was a real asset.

So as usual, whether any personality type is "good" or not depends on whether their strong suits are what you need for what you're trying to accomplish. And it also depends on the individual and whether they are capable of appreciating in others.

---------- Post added 05-25-2012 at 09:48 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by RedN To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I wonder, wont it be possible to sorta force an ESTP to become reliable and predictable by constantly supplying him/her with sensory pleasures?

Well, that sounds positively wearying.

At some point I would probably suggest you try out the sensory pleasure of playing in traffic, just out of sheer annoyance, because I am a smartass INTJ and it's kind of what we do sometimes.
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	What I wont be cool with is if this person that is not being noticed, for not being noticeable and not saying anything at all, would start getting bitter and start hating us who are getting some just because - like we dont hate you, so why hate us you know, its not our fault.

Um, actually if you're so socially unaware and uncaring that you didn't even realize a human was there who might want to be included, but you were too busy running off at the mouth and doing your Look At Me! Look At Me! routine that others couldn't get a word in edgewise, that is your fault.

It's called being rude in most circles.

And most of the ESTPs I've known have been too clueless to comprehend such things, which is why for friends it doesn't seem to work out so well. I may have been unlucky enough to run into more than my share of immature ESTPs though.


	ADD: I guess we talk a lot to others coz maybe thats where our strength is, how we can grow an advantage over them maybe even?

It's not a strength to view other people as little more than something to climb on.

Also, there is a difference between talking to others and talking with them.

Aw hell, isn't Sarah Palin an ESTP? Because that sure would explain my visceral reaction to her.

---------- Post added 05-25-2012 at 09:56 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Ghostwheel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I do confess, though, that ESTPs seem to have much more fun than we do.

The operative term is "seem."

There is no requirement that "fun" be especially loud or be announced to everyone in range of hearing before it is actually "fun."

**ipodboy2137** · 05-25-2012, 07:13 PM

	Originally Posted by RedN To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How are you with ESTPs? How do you get along or feel towards ESTPs? Any tips on interacting with them or ESTPs dealing with you? Again, just say whatever even if its mean as hell or nice or whatever, info is info right? Thank youuuuuu!!!

Okay, I will be your best bet on giving you accurate advice on ESTP's. My ex best friend was an ESTP.

We were friends sense 8th grade. Now we are both 18. Beware, this type is nothing but trouble. That is all. He or she is very persuasive, very cunning, very manipulative.

We are not best friends anymore, and I do not wish to go into detail . Some things I can tell you is this personality type will give you some of the BEST memories you can remember, sometimes I cry to our memories.

He or she will betray you at the end. He or she is the life of the party. He or she will envy you. He or she lives day to day, and tends to get into a lot of trouble.

I started smoking weed because of this personality type, all we would do was smoke weed. Then, he moved up to cocaine, and heroin. He crashed his car due to popping 2 Xanax bars while driving (dumb decision) with another friend next to him, and his other friend is not even mad because really he, the ESTP is so cunning.

This personality type sucks with feelings. I thought we had a deep connection, and maybe we still do, but he is just naturally seductive.

but beware I can tell you he.she is nothing but trouble. You will see fun at first for a couple of years, but things turn ugly real fast. It's almost like he is the mastermind controlling your life. Very dangerous type, indeed. If you don't believe me, experience yourself.
However, he or she is extremely outgoing and charming, but makes dumb decisions.

more things to really help you:
He or She is the dominant personality type
He or She makes you think they don't understand you, so they can use you to their advantage
He or She is very daring
He or She is just cunning
He or She disrespects a lot of things including family

If you wish to know more about this type, send me a message, and I will tell you more about his life, how to get to him, what works and doesn't.

**RedN** · 05-25-2012, 07:22 PM

Booko,

but in a group of ESTPs theres always someone talking, and its not always just one - coz if what you say is true then we all would have had a need to say something right?

and if none of us were listening to the others then we really wont get anything out of it since theres no recognition... its a give and take. and if someone IS talking, then my attention must go there and not to the one who isnt? wont that be the socially acceptable thing to do? i think youre thinking of the extreme ones coz no matter how radical and crazy my friends are... none of them including me, are just about being showy about ourselves and not giving others any space.

i like immature ESTPs theyre fun. when youre with one, you can actually just feel the fun that this person is having, even if youre just watching. its hard to explain...

as for climbing, we are all doing it, you included... just as what youre doing now in this post of yours. hahahahhaaaaa

so... you intjs dont care about feelings then? is that what youre saying? that what you think is what counts, and feelings mean very little to you, by your tone? you seem to be proud of this too.

**ipodboy2137** · 05-25-2012, 07:22 PM

Did I break you down completely, tell me I did. Please, tell me I did.... haizz. This is a love hate relationship.

	Originally Posted by RedN To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well, its not really hard to see a persons weak spots, you just interact with em and observe? You'll know youre hitting it by how they react from the pressure youre applying as you said. The more you keep hitting them, the more they start showing more and more.

Exactly, what I mean. I know this personality type so well. He targets the weakness, giving himself the upper hand and being manipulative.This is the only personality type that can actually get close to INTJ's and get them to open up.

I hope you use your manipulative powers wisely. We really don't get close to other types very much, but you have what it takes to get us to come out of our shells.

**RedN** · 05-25-2012, 07:38 PM

ipod, you ehm just realized "I" am an estp??? ahahahahahaaaaaaa

but ok ill give you an honest response. in truth, my intj is the one who smokes weed. i dont touch those stuff. he actually forces me to, back then. but i dont wanna.

i think its that youll have the best memories just maybe coz you will have some memories of them, because you do a lot of things with them vs... doing nothing.

i guess we can be the life of the party but if theres a group of us, then its that we are the party? ok that sounded stupid but whatever hahahahaha

i dont envy intjs at all... i do feel envy but its not your kind nor mine its the one between us?

well true, a lot can happen to me within a week, sometimes? as for trouble... oh yeah, i have crashed a few weeks ago, i totalled the car and i almost died. no i wasnt high or drunk it was ice OKKKK

i dont think im cunning, i just explain myself better? if what i say isnt true then you wouldnt have believed it right?

then wont you say we are good with feelings instead? and yeah... i will admit i can ...... be very persuasive. not seductive per se but...

i dont think i control people. im very much passive and im submissive? i just refuse to submit to a being that is less than me, you want me in your hands to control, then you have to show and prove to me youre a superior being with facts and not empty nonsense.

yeah, i am daring. i dont get afraid as much as other people do maybe? but this is with regards to dealing with other people i think. coz i can feel extreme fear too, health for example

again, i only respect people that i deem to be worthy of it. if not, then why?

so... ehm ipod boy, hows that? you feel nice that youre almost there but not entirely?

hey im not bad news, and what... you think just being my friend will get you into trouble???

**Booko** · 05-25-2012, 07:40 PM

	Originally Posted by RedN To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	but in a group of ESTPs theres always someone talking, and its not always just one - coz if what you say is true then we all would have had a need to say something right?

I wasn't speaking of a group of ESTPs. I was speaking of a group of humans.

I'm sorry the distinction eluded you.


	i like immature ESTPs theyre fun. when youre with one, you can actually just feel the fun that this person is having, even if youre just watching. its hard to explain...

Sorry dear, I'm not a voyeur.

I consider ENFPs fun -- and what's better is they make sure you're part of the fun. They don't expect you to just watch them and delude yourself into thinking voyeurism is fun. They don't have fun to prove how fun they are -- it's strictly fun for fun's sake.


	as for climbing, we are all doing it, you included... just as what youre doing now in this post of yours. hahahahhaaaaa

Speaking of delusions.

Perhaps you'd care to explain to me precisely where it is I think I'm "climbing" to?

And why on a Friday night are you on INTJforum and not out having fun somewhere? Did you get turned down for a date or something?

It's obvious why any INTx would be here. We enjoy talking about ideas at any time because we think it's "fun."


	so... you intjs dont care about feelings then? is that what youre saying? that what you think is what counts, and feelings mean very little to you, by your tone? you seem to be proud of this too.

Did you do very well on reading comprehension tests?

Or do you get your information from a high colonic source as a rule?

**RedN** · 05-25-2012, 07:53 PM

booko, just the same. the others may not have as much of a stronger need but they do have a need to talk. and quite often, as i have observed, people will just ignore the estp if it gets that far. and... in a group its not always a setting of one person talking and everyone listening. it can be two sub groups talking to 3... i mean... i dont see whats hard here.

the scenario that youre thinking maybe where this is possible is one estp and all the rest are intj's if they are like how you seem to project them to be, and none of you would say anything at all forcing the estp to talk instead of dying from boredom coz nothing is going on.

its just about us getting attention, its also about us enjoying giving others attention watching them, hearing them out, enjoying something out of someone but NOTHING is...

i get the feeling that not all intjs are like you and share your point of views. you may dismiss that as ... nonsense since its not something that i though hard of but...
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if you were to claim you are not...then, ... maybe what someone up there said is true. maybe some things we cant say if it can hurt.

as for why im here. its only 8pm? im waiting for my hair to dry. i will get ready soon. im trying to get a peaceful moment before all the insanity later.

plus, contrary to how some seem to feel... i actually dont mind talking to intjs to the point that i can actually enjoy conversations with some.

hihihi i will say booko, its so easy to read you. and figure why you... ehm... ehhhh. ok i have to check somethign...

i dont judge a person before ive interacted with her/him sufficiently. maybe im not that smart to do such?

**Smacknrat** · 05-26-2012, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by RedN
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smack,
well... what do you intj's like doing? I mean ok... you for example what do you like to do that involves another human?

but the idea from what you posted is... just to have a matching interest then? I mean on all of those items on the list?

And theres a lot to say and consider there then coz its not just that simple out there.

Interpersonal perception - like this one, its not just about me being accurate or not in seeing who you are but if you are in denial or you have a misconceived, twisted or self inflated view of yourself which factually isnt true... then, even if i do see you for how you truely are then you may still think im wrong but im not.

In that long list, I can say that its about how flexible both parties are and willing to twist a little. Coz once one party starts wanting a perfect scene to what he or she wants then... that will break it. i wont say its impossible but its not really feasible

Yeah, interpersonal relationships and their depths isn't a trivial definition, so to describe a deep connection or close relationship can take a bit of talking on both sides. Just thought I'd help you along on what a close relationship is.

DOING things with one another certainly aids in creating a relationship and as you mature sharing thoughts, emotions, feelings, moments, and memories will def. define a relationship.

INTJs like small gatherings over large parties really. I just need a solo area if it's a club or something of the sort. I work for life now but in terms of interacting with the physical world, I enjoyed cooking, working out, flying (planes), going to restaurants, playing with electronics, movies, martial arts, watching standup, and visiting local events including arts and theater. There's a lot to do in life. Try asking an INTJ what they want to do. =)

I also enjoy rocketry, RC hobbies, computers (programming, media, etc... games when I was younger), and reading about self-improvement and psychology.

NetFlix and Hulu are good distractions, too... Though keeping up with imaginary Joneses is a one way ticket to dullsville.

But, in my experience, the ESTP will call everyone the next morning for breakfast nearby and not invite the INTJ... ouch. True story.

A few unacknowledged Christmas cards, birthday cards, emails, and "oops, I have other plans" later... You adjust yourself. I've known this one for a long time and he's like this for a lot of people, so knowing that I'm no longer a welcomed part of his life is difficult to assess.

I think INTJs don't care a lot about feelings, but we do 'invest' our feeling for a long time in certain people. Thus, we get hurt easily by a few people.... pretty easily.

---------- Post added 05-26-2012 at 08:39 AM ----------

In terms of both sides haing an ideal picture of a relationship, sure... This is true. It tends to break if you aren't careful.

IMHO it takes effort and time on both parts and this takes some maturity or acknowledgement. It's silly to even say it, but it's true.

It reminds me of a paradigm that's used to determine and encourage employee productivity.

Skill vs.Will Plus Epiphanies It's a simple graph. One axis is skill--how much skill does the employee have to do their job? Are they qualified? Overqualified? How long have they been doing it? When is the last time you know they learned something new? How quickly do they handle tasks compared to their peers? The other axis is will--this is where we measure the employee's desire. Do they like their job? Really? Have they told you that? Are they viewed as ener- getic by their team? When is the last time they generated a great idea that blew your mind? Are they talking in meetings or listening? Are they ever talk- ing? Are they always talking? This graph is not a precision instrument. It's a tool to better define the impression you're constructing of your employee. Once you've placed some- one on the Skill/Will graph, you can begin to consider what your full-time job is--constantly and consistently pushing your employees to the upper-right quadrant. High skill (I'm good at what I do) and high will (I like what I do).

I'd say the same graph applies.

**RedN** · 05-27-2012, 07:37 AM

Well I always ask people what they want to... and seriously I dont really care if youre intj. those may mean heavy here just as epts but I still think I should give people the benefit of the doubt coz not all are the same still. and some ill say may be a punishment for me but some can actually be fun to be with

and i do... find it wrong to think the nerdy types of humans have nothing to do for leisure, we all have something to do... i... think

well, when i used to be an intj i will admit that was what happens... like at work all the bitches would like have this stupid party at someones house and im like hte only one who isnt invited. and then someitmes the fucks slip saying without my existence there in the room in mind, that 'yeah I filter those who would come, we dont want retards in there'. eh so what huh is that why you didnt invite me???

and now htat htey talk to me, i lost interest in them coz of how they were to me in the past.

but then again, i guess you will have to consider im not really a typical estp maybe ... im like a baby bat so...

05-25-2012, 02:13 PM	#1
RedN Member [11%] MBTI: ESFP Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 442	How are you with ESTPs? How do you get along or feel towards ESTPs? Any tips on interacting with them or ESTPs dealing with you? Again, just say whatever even if its mean as hell or nice or whatever, info is info right? Thank youuuuuu!!!
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05-25-2012, 02:28 PM	#2
MrFlaneur Veteran Member [56%] MBTI: INTj Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,246	Con artists, predatory paedophiles, organised sociopaths, bottom feeders. Welcome to the forum.
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05-25-2012, 02:39 PM	#3
RedN Member [11%] MBTI: ESFP Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 442	See... I actually learned something new here when it made me search for bottom feeder in the urban dictionary out of curiosity and there was a funny one for it: A girl or guy who at the end of a night out (club, pub, bar, etc) whom has failed to hook up, or pull. either because of their apparent lack of game or just because they are unatractive unless you've consumed massive ammounts of alcohol. Usually the later. They are usually preyed on by those who choose to get some action easily. Bottom Feeders are also found in large numbers at dive bars usually in groups. Beware there is always a Cock Blocker in the bunch!! There is also a good chance there is a good looking girl in the group, bottom feeders keep her around to attract the single guys hoping that they will talk to them instead of their hot friend. The opposite of this is that the hot girl has low self esteem and hangs out with the bottom feeders to make herself feel prettier. she is also easy pickings... and here's another: Somebody who pays for hookers, and then fails to have sex with them hahahahahaaaa thank you for the input!!! To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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05-25-2012, 02:50 PM	#5
Smacknrat Member [15%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 639	They're great to be around and somehow you get to feel you should be friends with them (and mostly there's no reason NOT to be), but they're about the most unreliable bunch I've known. Always have an alternative thing on your plate you plan on doing something with an ESTP. Also, they seem like N's, but they're really just picking out entertaining events, technology, and media to fulfill their constant need for sensory indulgence. I kinda feel backstabbed by them... and they're good at talking themselves up and other down. Worth keeping an eye on them for entertainment value, but I wouldn't follow them into abstract fields (they never venture there anyhow except for entertainment). I pick up on the impression that they don't want me following them into group events. They have a categorization thing going on in their head (they're like INTPs and have a secondary Ti). So they pick up on "wierd" things... and guess exactly what INTJs are once an ESTP gets to know an INTJ. The one I've know for a long time once called me "bourgeois" and "need to be slapped off his high horse".... and I never understood how or why that was said. Anyway, they also have a feeling of being hurt by others or being a "friend of convenience" even if there's evidence to the contrary. ---------- Post added 05-25-2012 at 01:53 PM ---------- They're good at giving out nicknames and getting excited about themselves. They can come up with interesting projects but good luck every getting them to sit down for a learning session. Two ESTPs I know (see, they already have me promoting them): To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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05-25-2012, 02:55 PM	#7
Smacknrat Member [15%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 639	They don't like to share their emotions and they do run for the hills as soon as emotions get involved.
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05-25-2012, 02:59 PM	#8
MrFlaneur Veteran Member [56%] MBTI: INTj Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,246	They don't have emotions, other than fury at being beat at their own game. The Fe is there to entice and exploit.
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05-25-2012, 03:10 PM	#10
Distance Core Member [418%] MBTI: eNTj Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 16,735	ESTP men are awesome! They provide a sense of fun and security, the dom-tert matchup of Se. They also don't mind sharing the lead with natural give and take handoffs. But they can also be exhausting with their need to talk and socialise. Not fond of the few ESTP women I've interacted with. There's a tangible dominance game dynamic. They must lead but lack long-term thinking which rubs my Te-Ni fur the wrong way. Meow...pffsss....pffsss....
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05-25-2012, 03:22 PM	#11
RedN Member [11%] MBTI: ESFP Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 442	Well, its not really hard to see a persons weak spots, you just interact with em and observe? You'll know youre hitting it by how they react from the pressure youre applying as you said. The more you keep hitting them, the more they start showing more and more... exposing what they are like as a person... then obviously once you know how a person ticks then... there you go? If not, adjust and try a different approach? Conflicts arise when you see that they want something that you either cant give or dont want to give I guess? Oh I do have a party to go to later tonight. If youre nearby you can come. As for what makes me tick, I read this from an ESTP forum, "I was too busy being awesome to think about it". Hihihihihihi just joking. We all have good points, its just a matter of using them and being mindful of them when interacting with others and just adjust accordingly? Know when to unleash or restrain yourself helps? Smack, hmmm interesting. Ill admit i have said or felt the last 2 myself. but I guess it does happen too that people really do just take advantage of us, thinking we're that loose and easy... i dont know... I wonder, wont it be possible to sorta force an ESTP to become reliable and predictable by constantly supplying him/her with sensory pleasures? As for introverts of sorts hanging out with me or us, you kow one time we were chilling out to end the night and I just noticed that we were actually with another person, I didnt really notice him there til one of my friends asked him something and on like 1 hour of all of us talking, all he said was "I'm into 2D girls". I really dont mind believe me and the others dont seem bothered by him being there. What I wont be cool with is if this person that is not being noticed, for not being noticeable and not saying anything at all, would start getting bitter and start hating us who are getting some just because - like we dont hate you, so why hate us you know, its not our fault. ADD: I guess we talk a lot to others coz maybe thats where our strength is, how we can grow an advantage over them maybe even? Distance: A To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. pet pet
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05-25-2012, 04:13 PM	#13
RedN Member [11%] MBTI: ESFP Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 442	Well in my interactions with people who seem... well difficult to persuade to move, I have initiated contact but constant denials will of course make me stop trying. I guess to me for ex, I dont mind if im initiating a majority of the time, but if its always ME then... you have to give some effort too right. This applies to not just talking or hanging out, but interaction in general. I mean, if you project that you want to be left alone and fortify taht with your actions/inactions, then I guess thats what we should give you? and leave you alone? I hear this a lot here but Im open to the idea that it may not mean the same to us, so when you say close relationships here waht do you exactly mean? Are you talking about closed? in the sense that its a 1 on 1 deal and there are no others or distractions int he relationship like 3rd parties? or the party is jsut comprised of people you are also close friends with? or close as in being open and extroing on each other? but there we are naturally doing that already arent we?... so its not us pushing the distance, if instead we try to close the gap right? or in a physical sense? like hanging out more often?
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05-25-2012, 05:15 PM	#14
Smacknrat Member [15%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 639	Yeah, one, two, or all of the above. =) via: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Table 1.2 Characteristics of Relationships (Adapted from Hinde, 1995) The content of the interactions. What do the people do together? What is their usually interaction pattern like? The diversity of types of interaction within the relationship. The more types of activity the people do together, the more experiences are shared. The qualities of the interactions. Did the people communicate constructively, competitively, loudly, softly, lovingly? Both content analysis of speech and nonverbal behavior will be relevant data. As important is what the people think about the merits and qualities of their relationship. The relative frequency and patterning of relationships. This category includes the extent to which interactions of different types are jointly present. This characteristic pertains to the structure of the relationship (e.g., controlling or permissive interactions). The reciprocity vs. complementarity nature of the interactions. This distinction refers to the need for which satisfaction is sought in a relationship. Do the people reciprocate behaviors or complement one another (e.g., one is introverted and one extraverted)? Most close relationships involve a complex and idiosyncratic mix of reciprocal and complentarity interactive patterns. Power and autonomy. Issues of power and autonomy are part of the complementarity pattern. One partner can be said to have power over the other if he or she can influence the quality of the consequences of other's behavior. How power is exerted may be assessed by the quality of the interactions (e.g., persuasion vs. command). If one person in a relationship exercises power, that reduces the other's autonomy. But what is critical is how the power differential is perceived by the other. Lack of agreement about the exercise of power can lead to conflict. Intimacy-the extent to which the people reveal themselves (emotionally, cognitively, and physically) to each other. Intimacy requires the person making the disclosure to feel understood, validated, and cared for and is thus related to trust (see discussion of "minding theory in Chapter 6 on maintenance and enhancement of close relationships). Interpersonal perception. Does one partner see the other as the other really is? Does one partner see the other as the other sees self? Does one partner feel understood by how the other partner sees him or her? Does the couple see the world outside the relationship in similar ways? These are critical questions for closeness. Commitment. Do the partners strive to ensure the continuation of the relationship or improve its quality? Does each see the other as committed? Satisfaction. Do the people perceive the relationship as close to their ideal, or preferable to other relationship they could be in?
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05-25-2012, 06:06 PM	#15
Ghostwheel Member [34%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,370	Can you tell which boy is the ESTP and which is the INTJ? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I do confess, though, that ESTPs seem to have much more fun than we do. They enjoy life so much more. I have already petitioned Buddha so that in my next life I can be a six-foot-four ESTP pro ball player/rock guitarist/movie star. I'm going to try to avoid being the schoolyard bully, however.
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05-25-2012, 06:23 PM	#16
RedN Member [11%] MBTI: ESFP Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 442	ghost, em... the estp is the one being bullied? and to add, you dont have to be one, you can just go out with one and enjoy the ride? smack, well... what do you intj's like doing? I mean ok... you for example what do you like to do that involves another human? but the idea from what you posted is... just to have a matching interest then? I mean on all of those items on the list? And theres a lot to say and consider there then coz its not just that simple out there. Interpersonal perception - like this one, its not just about me being accurate or not in seeing who you are but if you are in denial or you have a misconceived, twisted or self inflated view of yourself which factually isnt true... then, even if i do see you for how you truely are then you may still think im wrong but im not. In that long list, I can say that its about how flexible both parties are and willing to twist a little. Coz once one party starts wanting a perfect scene to what he or she wants then... that will break it. i wont say its impossible but its not really feasible
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05-25-2012, 07:22 PM	#19
RedN Member [11%] MBTI: ESFP Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 442	Booko, but in a group of ESTPs theres always someone talking, and its not always just one - coz if what you say is true then we all would have had a need to say something right? and if none of us were listening to the others then we really wont get anything out of it since theres no recognition... its a give and take. and if someone IS talking, then my attention must go there and not to the one who isnt? wont that be the socially acceptable thing to do? i think youre thinking of the extreme ones coz no matter how radical and crazy my friends are... none of them including me, are just about being showy about ourselves and not giving others any space. i like immature ESTPs theyre fun. when youre with one, you can actually just feel the fun that this person is having, even if youre just watching. its hard to explain... as for climbing, we are all doing it, you included... just as what youre doing now in this post of yours. hahahahhaaaaa so... you intjs dont care about feelings then? is that what youre saying? that what you think is what counts, and feelings mean very little to you, by your tone? you seem to be proud of this too.
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05-25-2012, 07:38 PM	#21
RedN Member [11%] MBTI: ESFP Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 442	ipod, you ehm just realized "I" am an estp??? ahahahahahaaaaaaa but ok ill give you an honest response. in truth, my intj is the one who smokes weed. i dont touch those stuff. he actually forces me to, back then. but i dont wanna. i think its that youll have the best memories just maybe coz you will have some memories of them, because you do a lot of things with them vs... doing nothing. i guess we can be the life of the party but if theres a group of us, then its that we are the party? ok that sounded stupid but whatever hahahahaha i dont envy intjs at all... i do feel envy but its not your kind nor mine its the one between us? well true, a lot can happen to me within a week, sometimes? as for trouble... oh yeah, i have crashed a few weeks ago, i totalled the car and i almost died. no i wasnt high or drunk it was ice OKKKK i dont think im cunning, i just explain myself better? if what i say isnt true then you wouldnt have believed it right? then wont you say we are good with feelings instead? and yeah... i will admit i can ...... be very persuasive. not seductive per se but... i dont think i control people. im very much passive and im submissive? i just refuse to submit to a being that is less than me, you want me in your hands to control, then you have to show and prove to me youre a superior being with facts and not empty nonsense. yeah, i am daring. i dont get afraid as much as other people do maybe? but this is with regards to dealing with other people i think. coz i can feel extreme fear too, health for example again, i only respect people that i deem to be worthy of it. if not, then why? so... ehm ipod boy, hows that? you feel nice that youre almost there but not entirely? hey im not bad news, and what... you think just being my friend will get you into trouble???
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05-25-2012, 07:53 PM	#23
RedN Member [11%] MBTI: ESFP Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 442	booko, just the same. the others may not have as much of a stronger need but they do have a need to talk. and quite often, as i have observed, people will just ignore the estp if it gets that far. and... in a group its not always a setting of one person talking and everyone listening. it can be two sub groups talking to 3... i mean... i dont see whats hard here. the scenario that youre thinking maybe where this is possible is one estp and all the rest are intj's if they are like how you seem to project them to be, and none of you would say anything at all forcing the estp to talk instead of dying from boredom coz nothing is going on. its just about us getting attention, its also about us enjoying giving others attention watching them, hearing them out, enjoying something out of someone but NOTHING is... i get the feeling that not all intjs are like you and share your point of views. you may dismiss that as ... nonsense since its not something that i though hard of but... To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. if you were to claim you are not...then, ... maybe what someone up there said is true. maybe some things we cant say if it can hurt. as for why im here. its only 8pm? im waiting for my hair to dry. i will get ready soon. im trying to get a peaceful moment before all the insanity later. plus, contrary to how some seem to feel... i actually dont mind talking to intjs to the point that i can actually enjoy conversations with some. hihihi i will say booko, its so easy to read you. and figure why you... ehm... ehhhh. ok i have to check somethign... i dont judge a person before ive interacted with her/him sufficiently. maybe im not that smart to do such?
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05-27-2012, 07:37 AM	#25
RedN Member [11%] MBTI: ESFP Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 442	Well I always ask people what they want to... and seriously I dont really care if youre intj. those may mean heavy here just as epts but I still think I should give people the benefit of the doubt coz not all are the same still. and some ill say may be a punishment for me but some can actually be fun to be with and i do... find it wrong to think the nerdy types of humans have nothing to do for leisure, we all have something to do... i... think well, when i used to be an intj i will admit that was what happens... like at work all the bitches would like have this stupid party at someones house and im like hte only one who isnt invited. and then someitmes the fucks slip saying without my existence there in the room in mind, that 'yeah I filter those who would come, we dont want retards in there'. eh so what huh is that why you didnt invite me??? and now htat htey talk to me, i lost interest in them coz of how they were to me in the past. but then again, i guess you will have to consider im not really a typical estp maybe ... im like a baby bat so...
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