[blueback]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Plus men are a hell of a lot less picky when it comes to a woman's personality if the woman is reasonably attractive.

And women are a hell of a lot less picky when it comes to a man's attractiveness if the man is reasonably wealthy.

	Originally Posted by DesertKnight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Understanding sure does seem to be in short supply in here...

People tend to confuse their understanding of their own opinion for understanding of the subject.

And my work here is done. Snide-Aside-Man AWAY.....

[Causa Mortis]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You like?

A bit rah-rah for my tastes, but it works.

You are right that a lot of the sublimated misogyny on the forums is due to INTJs struggling with relationships. The solution, however, is not to degrade the INTJ and force them to accept a pathetic sexual fate, but rather to get them to be honest about the disconnect between what they want and what they have, get them to take action, to notice what's working and what's not, and to dust themselves off and try again after inexperience-based failures.

This goes for the rampant misandry as well.

[LadySpock]

curiousgeorge01,

Your summary is incorrect.

Here's a better & comprehensive summary:

Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yes, I said it "Dusty Dick Syndrome" [HIDE="Click for definition of Dusty Dick Syndrome"]The irrational and crippling venomous bitterness which arises in an INTJ male when dust collects on his dick from lack of use.[/HIDE] The title was concocted (no pun intended) as an attention grabber...but please keep reading To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. As an INTJ female, I am faced with the challenges which come with being an INTJ and a female but I have worked and am continuing to work through these challenges successfully. This work I have done and am doing involves three important concepts: 1) acknowledging The first part of the work was acknowledging that most of the people in the world are "feelers" and that feelers have preferred ways of interacting which may seem pointless or even annoying to an INTJ. 2) understanding The second part was coming to the understanding that an INTJs preferred way of interacting is neither inferior nor superior to a feelers preferred ways of interacting. 3) accepting The third part was accepting that, when it comes to human interaction, this is the world as it is and I do not have the power to change this particular part of it. When it comes to human interaction, I would need to adapt to the environment rather that irrationally expecting the environment to change to accommodate me. I shared the semi-personal information above because I have noticed that the males on this forum spend a lot of time denigrating females for the choices they are supposedly making ...choices which allegedly result in the men on this forum NOT being chosen for relationship and / or sex. The Dusty Dick INTJ's thought process seems to be: Most females are decidedly defective because they choose wrong when it comes to men. If females were logical or making sensible choices, the men are this forum would not be so lonely and frustrated. This is illogical. There is information already posted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . In that discussion, more than a few emotionally mature INTJ males shared very valuable info regarding this issue. Please use it. If you are an INTJ male who is having trouble with attracting females, I implore you to consider the information shared above. You must accept that you cannot change the environment in this case - most people are feelers and most women are definitely feelers. You need to figure out a way to be successful at getting what you want be it sex, a true relationship, and / or a happy life. INTJ-esque navel staring will not work. It's really that simple. This is a good opportunity for you to use those INTJ problem solving skills and solve a problem for yourself. You have a big stake in this one. Your actions here will impact the quality of your life significantly.

[Innovate]

After reading this thread, I've noticed some women here have such a distaste & problem with guys it's absolutely disgusting.

I agree with the purpose of the OP to some extents, however some of the insults and generalizations being made are just pathetic.

[Causa Mortis]

	Originally Posted by Melchizedek To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The irony is so thick I could swim in it.

This irony is present in all these misandric invectives against all things masculine (except for butchy women, of course). However, I think her post highlights why there is so much of both on the forums, and why relationships are seemingly the only topic INTJs aren't naturally civil about.

---------- Post added 05-19-2012 at 01:36 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Your summary is incorrect. Here's a better & comprehensive summary:

In this case, I despise your post, as its just an instruction for INTJ men to accept sexual misery because, as is routinely pointed out above, misery loves company. Fuck that.

[LadySpock]

Actually, It a suggestion for INTJ males who are struggling to look at the suggestions from the INTJ males who are not struggling & to do some real introspection to grab some happiness for themselves.

There is no wording in my OP or subsequent comments to "accept" misery.

[LadySpock]

	Originally Posted by Innovate To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	After reading this thread, I've noticed some women here have such a distaste & problem with guys it's absolutely disgusting.

LOL! Most of the respondents were males who were kicking, screaming, and thrashing against what was being said.

[Frosted]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	LOL! Most of the respondents were males who were kicking, screaming, and thrashing against what was being said.

I wasn't kicking and screaming. I felt I made a point good enough to close the discussion altogether, but I didn't get one reply from you. Oh well. Such is life.

[BBC]

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Let me summarize what the OP said and especially the part that's bolded. That INTJ men denigrate women b/c we can't get with a woman and then you offer tips on how to get with a woman. To which I am saying, INTJ men would denigrate women with or without getting women b/c they still find them illogical. Get it? If you want a clearer thread on how INTJ men can get women, you should've named and explained yourself as "tips on how to get women thread" But instead you chose to explain the resentment stemming from lack of women. So you probably should've just not included the bolded latter part of your OP if you were headed in that direction. So you did indeed very much imply that somehow lack of sex leads to lack of disrespect for women. A leads to B, B leads to C. It's called logic.

You're wrong! The OP wasn't talking about intj men who aren't dusty dicks. She was only referring to dusty dicks who then whinge, she wasn't even talking about all dusty dicks. Don't know why you're so worked up anyway with your entourage of hot chicks to fall back on, if I didn't know better I'd think you were a whining dusty dick yourself. Good thing that we know better!

[LadySpock]

	Originally Posted by blueback To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And women are a hell of a lot less picky when it comes to a man's attractiveness if the man is reasonably wealthy.

That may be true for some women & that pool of women is shrinking since we no longer have to rely on men for food, clothing, and shelter. But men will always respond to a pair of tits & a smile.

Just saying...

Bottom line - INTJ females don't have the same challenges as the INTJ males. We do have our own issues though... Another thread for that would work well.

---------- Post added 05-19-2012 at 12:46 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I wasn't kicking and screaming. I felt I made a point good enough to close the discussion altogether, but I didn't get one reply from you. Oh well. Such is life.

What the - OK I'll go back & see what you said.

[Innovate]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But men will always respond to a pair of tits & a smile.

Right; Men will always ... Good one.

[LadySpock]

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	@ the OP. One merely complaining about the irrationalities of the opposite sex doesn't equate to them using it as the, or one of the, reason(s) that individual does not get laid, unless it is explicitly mentioned as a reason for such.

What are you saying here. Break it down please!

	Every time a guy in this thread makes a negative comment about women you immediately conclude that his beliefs are such as to give him assurance that he is not getting laid because of the faults he finds in women, yet the guys never explicitly said "I don't get laid because women are etc etc". So, in closing, I would say that you misinterpret some of the posts made by men here.

You're lost. Or - you haven't been in the forum long enough to read what's going on here.

This thread was inspired by the thread which said that women are delusional because they prefer cads (very recent) as well as the numerous other threads in which some guys here specifically explicitly said "I don't get laid because women are etc etc."

	Btw, I think you're a good poster and like your personality, so don't take my perceptions as a negative look upon you.

I am an INTJ. You have to know that this flattery makes me a bit uncomfortable. One reason is - I am left to wonder how your opinion on the topic would be impacted if you thought I was a "bad" poster and you did not like my personality.

Just telling the truth...

---------- Post added 05-19-2012 at 12:53 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Innovate To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Right; Men will always ... Good one.

You busted me LOL!

I should not have said that
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[Innovate]

	You busted me LOL! I should not have said that To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

-

I would agree that most do however.
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And regarding my previous replies, I know your OP was for a good purpose and is agreeable, but after reading on, it became very distasteful. I'm not going to elaborate though, and I'm not referring to anyone in particular. I just don't want to fuel any fires that may have been going.

[Frosted]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I am left to wonder how your opinion on the topic would be impacted if you thought I was a "bad" poster and you did not like my personality. Just telling the truth...

Post would have been the same if I disliked you. Seeing how emotional you have been in this thread I put that last bit on there so you wouldn't take things personally. However it is now apparent that you choose to place every comment into some context that suits your agenda. Consider yourself lucky that you found an s/o. He must be very submissive.

[curiousgeorge01]

	Originally Posted by Innovate To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	- Everything LadySpock says is a 100% undeniable fact and anyone who challenges her is obviously wrong, without any consideration.

	Originally Posted by BBC To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You're wrong! The OP wasn't talking about intj men who aren't dusty dicks. She was only referring to dusty dicks who then whinge, she wasn't even talking about all dusty dicks. Don't know why you're so worked up anyway with your entourage of hot chicks to fall back on, if I didn't know better I'd think you were a whining dusty dick yourself. Good thing that we know better!

Good god, looks what's bolded by HER and NOT ME. SHE bolded it:

{I shared the semi-personal information above because I have noticed that the males on this forum spend a lot of time denigrating females for the choices they are supposedly making ...choices which allegedly result in the men on this forum NOT being chosen for relationship and / or sex.

The Dusty Dick INTJ's thought process seems to be: Most females are decidedly defective because they choose wrong when it comes to men. If females were logical or making sensible choices, the men are this forum would not be so lonely and frustrated.

This is illogical.}

I'll repeat, if females were more logical or making sensible choices and chose them for sex, men would not be lonely or frustrated. Should I repeat that again? And I AM saying I am not lonely and I get it regularly but it doesn't stop me from thinking females are illogical. CAN YOU SEE THAT?

Innovate, I think that's what I was "kicking and screaming about," just the sheer arrogance of saying "I didn't type anything wrong or mislead anyone, it must be ALL OF YOU STUPID MEN WHO READ IT WRONG." Can't you just f-ing say sorry I mislead a bit or like let me explain I just wanted to create a help guys date thread. It's arrogance like that that makes men want you to go back to the kitchen, shut up and go make a sandwich.

[blueback]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That may be true for some women...

The irony is now so thick I could carve it out and build a swimming pool in it.

[BBC]

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Good god, looks what's bolded by HER and NOT ME. SHE bolded it: {I shared the semi-personal information above because I have noticed that the males on this forum spend a lot of time denigrating females for the choices they are supposedly making ...choices which allegedly result in the men on this forum NOT being chosen for relationship and / or sex. The Dusty Dick INTJ's thought process seems to be: Most females are decidedly defective because they choose wrong when it comes to men. If females were logical or making sensible choices, the men are this forum would not be so lonely and frustrated. This is illogical.} I'll repeat, if females were more logical or making sensible choices, men would not be lonely or frustrated. Should I repeat that again? And I AM saying I am not lonely but it doesn't stop me from thinking females are illogical. CAN YOU SEE THAT? Innovate, I think that's what I was "kicking and screaming about," just the sheer arrogance of saying "I didn't type anything wrong or mislead anyone, it must be ALL OF YOU STUPID MEN WHO READ IT WRONG." Can't you just f-ing say sorry I mislead a bit or like let me explain I just wanted to create a help guys date thread. It's arrogance like that that makes men want you to go back to the kitchen, shut up and go make a sandwich.

Please don't have a nervous breakdown, I just said you weren't a dusty dick didn't I
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.

[Innovate]

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Innovate, I think that's what I was "kicking and screaming about," just the sheer arrogance of saying "I didn't type anything wrong or mislead anyone, it must be ALL OF YOU STUPID MEN WHO READ IT WRONG." Can't you just f-ing say sorry I mislead a bit or like let me explain I just wanted to create a help guys date thread. It's arrogance like that that makes men want you to go back to the kitchen, shut up and go make a sandwich.

-

My point is that one person cannot have all of the answers for a topic like this.

Beliefs are not "wrong." We all have different beliefs; Deal with it.

[JTG]

Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

One merely complaining about the irrationalities of the opposite sex doesn't equate to them using it as the, or one of the, reason(s) that individual does not get laid, unless it is explicitly mentioned as a reason for such. Every time a guy in this thread makes a negative comment about women you immediately conclude that his beliefs are such as to give him assurance that he is not getting laid because of the faults he finds in women, yet the guys never explicitly said "I don't get laid because women are etc etc". So, in closing, I would say that you misinterpret some of the posts made by men here. Btw, I think you're a good poster and like your personality, so don't take my perceptions as a negative look upon you. Another fyi, I dislike the generalizations some people made in this thread, e.g., women are, guys are...

In fact, perceived irrationality in the opposite sex stems from shortsightedness and poor ability to think from other perspectives. There's almost always some kind of rationale behind others' actions. Most people just don't take the time to think through the possibilities. They've been trained by society to view things the way their gender views them, and the other gender has been trained by society to view things differently.

Agreed on disliking gender generalizations; they're counterproductive in reaching understandings. Ironically, that kind of mentality (guys do this, girls do that) is part of the same system that creates and reinforces such behaviors, which further produces misunderstanding and miscommunication. So the complaint is a self-reinforcing behavior.

Vicious cycle of brainfuck.

	Originally Posted by overthought To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This has to be the most irrational argument between misogyny and misandry I have heard in quite some time.

Hang around. It gets better.

And by "better" i mean you'll see better examples of illogical misogyny and misandry

[curiousgeorge01]

	Originally Posted by BBC To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Please don't have a nervous breakdown, I just said you weren't a dusty dick didn't I To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .

I think that's the point. Most of the men who responded don't have dusty dicks. Sort of defeats the point of this thread no?

---------- Post added 05-19-2012 at 05:14 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Innovate To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	- My point is that one person cannot have all of the answers for a topic like this. Beliefs are not "wrong." We all have different beliefs; Deal with it.

I didn't say it was the beliefs, it was the attitude.

[Muse]

	Originally Posted by mieu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So do those gender trends take into account social trends of men not seeking therapy for emotional problems because of misandrous expectations foisted upon them by male and female alike?

While that was an issue 30 years ago the problem has decreased a lot in the last 8 years to the point of the genders being roughly the same in likelihood to seek evaluation and treatment. The issue of men seeking medical treatment in general has reduced a lot thanks to advertising and public informational efforts.

Plus the trends are evaluated with the entirety of a population, in order to find the approximate percentage of occurrence. So those who seek/don't seek evaluation shouldn't effect it.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

	Originally Posted by DesertKnight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I am jaded but whooo, gladly not about this. Understanding sure does seem to be in short supply in here; though I suppose I should have seen that coming both from the nature of the topic and the nature of the people who gather on this forum.

I mostly find it interesting from a sociological point of view, for much the same reason.

Originally Posted by Melchizedek To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This has to be Ladyspock's funniest thread since "Attention ALL men in the gym." She condescendingly and insultingly posts about how men here (I guess she learned her lesson about qualifiers, because she uses a qualifier once) should learn to tailor their interactions to be more successful. When men don't respond well to her insults and broad strokes ("the males on this forum..." "the men are this forum"), she continues to act condescending, insulting, and like what she said was totally innocuous, rather than take her own advice and switch tacts. The irony is so thick I could swim in it.

It almost makes me wonder if a bit of sexism is going on here.

	Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The solution, however, is not to degrade the INTJ and force them to accept a pathetic sexual fate, but rather to get them to be honest about the disconnect between what they want and what they have, get them to take action, to notice what's working and what's not, and to dust themselves off and try again after inexperience-based failures.

I think you are on the right track but a bit off. More directly, I think many of the INTJs and many of the other types on the forum (Men and women) could benefit from working on their ability to connect with people.

I would venture to say that about half the forum has a hard time making friends or forming bonds at work. That's all types and all genders.

	Originally Posted by Innovate To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	After reading this thread, I've noticed some women here have such a distaste & problem with guys it's absolutely disgusting. I agree with the purpose of the OP to some extents, however some of the insults and generalizations being made are just pathetic.

Agreed. This is why I say that sexism is fairly equal among the genders on this forum. It just takes different situations to bring it out.

	Originally Posted by Causa Mortis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	and why relationships are seemingly the only topic INTJs aren't naturally civil about.

frustration doesn't necessarily lead to a lack of civility. Sociologically speaking, a lack of civility is half expected/accepted on the forum. Such is reflected in the enforcement of our regulations. A close look at what is passable in this thread shows this.

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Actually, It a suggestion for INTJ males who are struggling to look at the suggestions from the INTJ males who are not struggling & to do some real introspection to grab some happiness for themselves.

Just being in a relationship doesn't guarantee that. In fact, it can be one of the biggest stressors in a persons life as it is one of the closest human relations (emotionally) a person can attempt to form. Finding the right person is difficult, and being with the wrong person can be hellish. I'm glad you promote introspection and self improvement, but jumping right into the fray will create issues.

A friend of mine has a little joke about the phrase "go get a life" that highlights the trends of people who set out with far too much haste. He says "Okay. Go get a girl pregnant, marry her, and then get divorced because everyone rushed into it way too quickly. Then sit back and marvel at how you 'have a life' now."

Sounds crude right? But for almost 50% this is a reality.

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Bottom line - INTJ females don't have the same challenges as the INTJ males. We do have our own issues though... Another thread for that would work well.

Well... I know a few INTJ females very well (talk regularly) and while there can be some differences sociologically, I think the biggest challenge for both is the same. Finding someone they connect with well enough to have a successful relationship with. Same problem that both face in friendships too.

[Innovate]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I didn't say it was the beliefs, it was the attitude.

-

That statement I made was just a general statement.

---------- Post added 05-19-2012 at 05:37 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Muse To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think the biggest challenge for both is the same. Finding someone they connect with well enough to have a successful relationship with. Same problem that both face in friendships too.

-

That has always been my problem, like you said, with friendships as well as relationships. I have only been really attracted to two females in my life, so far. I have had more than two relationships however, but I wasn't feeling the romantic connection. I have so many 'good-acquaintances' but not many "friends." I hardly ever go out with friends because I lack the motive... The motive is only there if I have a real connection with them.

[Muse]

	Originally Posted by Innovate To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That has always been my problem, like you said, with friendships as well as relationships.

Makes sense since a romantic relationship is a lot like a friendshipPlus. Same with close family bonds. It is all an intimate form of human relations.

	Originally Posted by Innovate To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have only been really attracted to two females in my life, so far.

if you talk to multitudes of people more regularly and then reflect on who they are and how there can be similarity even among differences, you might be able to connect with people better on average. Which hopefully would increase the number of people you become attracted to later.

It worked for me and two male INTJs I know at least. By discussing and reflecting on what different people value and how their personal interests have a similar core meaning as our own, we were able to become more accepting and understanding of people very different from ourselves. In the end we ended up having some very nice relationships with women quite different from us.

	Originally Posted by Innovate To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have had more than two relationships however, but I wasn't feeling the romantic connection.

Similar to a problem I am facing currently. I think it is the residual effects of some recent damages from a bad situation for me though. Normally I am indeed picky, but not cut off. Lately it has all just been difficult in general though, on an emotional level. It's a work in progress though
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and I will get there when I get there.

	Originally Posted by Innovate To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have so many 'good-acquaintances' but not many "friends." I hardly ever go out with friends because I lack the motive... The motive is only there if I have a real connection with them.

I can relate to this. Maybe try having the focus of the meeting as an activity of your interest. Can make it easier to get up and out the door. The prospect of socializing with people I don't find very interesting yet is daunting. Add an activity of interest as the focus and at least I will have some fun no matter what.

[LadySpock]

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Post would have been the same if I disliked you. Seeing how emotional you have been in this thread I put that last bit on there so you wouldn't take things personally.

Huh?

	However it is now apparent that you choose to place every comment into some context that suits your agenda.

Still not following.


Is this a personal attack rather than a discussion of the topic?

	Consider yourself lucky that you found an s/o. He must be very submissive.

Yep - personal attack.

Just for your edification: I have HUGE BOUNCY tits and large pillowy lips. So, no probs finding an S/O and my husband spanks me nightly while my lesbian lover takes Polaroid photos.

[Innovate]

@Muse

I am more talkative than it may seem when I meet people, & I do try to reflect on who they are to find interesting similarities, but most of the time I can't establish a connection that is worth pursuing any further, as a friendship or a relationship. I don't blame this on them; I blame this on myself and it makes me feel distant from everyone.

There are not many activities where I live, but I want to get involved in things that gives me the opportunity to meet new people. Sometimes I go out alone, and chat with a few people I meet, but it usually goes nowhere.

A girl is currently trying to lead me on, but I don't have a romantic interest in her. I wish I did, as it would give me plans tonight, but going along with it would be the wrong thing to do. :P

And good luck on recovering from your past issues Muse.
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There are many great people and great opportunities out there.

-

I didn't want to get off-topic from the OP, but I think it's true INTJ's usually have issues establishing connections.