[undfined]

To the ENFPs and those of us who love them:

11 years into our marriage, at 33 years old, I find myself wrestling with the work / life balance.

My parents struggled with this and their solution was a total and complete shutdown of anything work oriented after 9 pm. My father travelled a lot when I was growing up and he came to this conclusion on his own after a particularly rough patch. My mother recognized the frustrations and also came to. I don't really want to know the details, but the best advice they can give is to find a time and focus on each other.

I knew this already.

My wife grew up an orphan, and despite my explanations of my history I don't think it is clear that I am missing her. Sure we connect once or twice a week. That's just not good enough for me, or us.

When I come home from work I need a good hour or so to recuperate, before I cook dinner. I have an office, small staff, and perpetual work. My hour (usually less) gets me into home life. We are ok there.

My wife works for herself and does afternoon duties with the kids. While I change, make dinner, and watch over the kids she works. After dinner I handle the kids so she can get her 8 hours in. We trade bedtime stories with each kid, then she jumps back on the computer/project.

I get an hour of email/research in before I am done and need to unwind. Once I unwind I want what guys want. Yes, daily.

Meanwhile, she keeps working past the 8, and past the 10 hours. I woke up last week at 2 am to find her crying because she lost a file. I found it in 2 minutes. And got no thanks.

The list goes on. I find myself constantly frustrated because I am missing her, even though I support her efforts. But after a point in the day/night it seems so obvious to me to walk away from the daily grind.

I just can't find a way to explain to her why she needs to get better at us. I'm failing and need some help, which is really, really appreciated.

[MeDumb]

Maybe your wife prefers to work at night because various household events through the course of the day prevent a positive work environment.

i loved working at night, my brain works cleaner, everyone else has shut the F up, Coast to Coast is on the radio.

I think the stereotypical M-F, 9-5 workday is a crock of shit, and I think it has worked us into a bunch of unhealthy sheep.

Have sex in the morning before she goes to bed, if it's that important to you, or just be self-reliant.

[hi5yourface]

Originally Posted by undfined To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To the ENFPs and those of us who love them: 11 years into our marriage, at 33 years old, I find myself wrestling with the work / life balance. My wife grew up an orphan, and despite my explanations of my history I don't think it is clear that I am missing her. Sure we connect once or twice a week. That's just not good enough for me, or us. When I come home from work I need a good hour or so to recuperate, before I cook dinner. I have an office, small staff, and perpetual work. My hour (usually less) gets me into home life. We are ok there. My wife works for herself and does afternoon duties with the kids. While I change, make dinner, and watch over the kids she works. After dinner I handle the kids so she can get her 8 hours in. We trade bedtime stories with each kid, then she jumps back on the computer/project. I get an hour of email/research in before I am done and need to unwind. Once I unwind I want what guys want. Yes, daily. Meanwhile, she keeps working past the 8, and past the 10 hours. I woke up last week at 2 am to find her crying because she lost a file. I found it in 2 minutes. And got no thanks. The list goes on. I find myself constantly frustrated because I am missing her, even though I support her efforts. But after a point in the day/night it seems so obvious to me to walk away from the daily grind. I just can't find a way to explain to her why she needs to get better at us. I'm failing and need some help, which is really, really appreciated.

Is there any way that since your wife works at home you could coax her into taking a 30 minute break about four hours in and get your time with her in that way?

If your wife is crying at 2 am and not thanking you for helping her, she's intensely stressed.....being up all day with kids and up all night with work is taxing on a person mentally, physically and emotionally.

Run her a bath, turn on music, do something that she finds romantic.

It will be up to you in this regard to be patient and inviting so that she can refocus her attention on you however briefly because your lady has a lot on her plate and so do you!

[PurpleGiraffe]

Poor woman. She sounds ridiculously stressed. How is she possibly able to even have time to sleep? Is there no way she could find someone to assist? College students are practically always looking for internships, so that could be an option if there is a local college nearby, or maybe she could just see if there was any way she could find someone to help even part time. Nobody can do it all alone. ENFPs can extend themselves to the point where an INTJ would be rocking back and forth in the corner and cry-laughing, but even they have their limits too, and she sounds like she's hitting it.

I realize this is difficult for you too because you want to be with her, but you're going to have to sacrifice somewhere - whether it's financially to try to get her help or some other way - in order to help her because it sounds like her work is important to her. You are definitely important too, but this is apparently also something she wants/needs to do.

Sit her down, tell her that her work is interfering with your relationship. You support her and you want to figure out a way for her to be able to do both that doesn't mess with the family dynamics. Then brainstorm.

Good luck.

[undfined]

Originally Posted by hi5yourface To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Is there any way that since your wife works at home you could coax her into taking a 30 minute break about four hours in and get your time with her in that way? If your wife is crying at 2 am and not thanking you for helping her, she's intensely stressed.....being up all day with kids and up all night with work is taxing on a person mentally, physically and emotionally. Run her a bath, turn on music, do something that she finds romantic. It will be up to you in this regard to be patient and inviting so that she can refocus her attention on you however briefly because your lady has a lot on her plate and so do you!

I think that's what I'm trying to do - be patient and inviting. At the start and end of each day I am open for her. Finding the romantic things to do is the easy part. It's the time I can't seem to get.

I should be clear - our workloads are equal and our kids are in school until 5 pm each day. Also, have been in her shoes, so I fixed it very early on and am commited to the balance.

---------- Post added 05-17-2012 at 01:00 PM ----------

Originally Posted by PurpleGiraffe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Poor woman. She sounds ridiculously stressed. How is she possibly able to even have time to sleep? Is there no way she could find someone to assist? College students are practically always looking for internships, so that could be an option if there is a local college nearby, or maybe she could just see if there was any way she could find someone to help even part time. Nobody can do it all alone. ENFPs can extend themselves to the point where an INTJ would be rocking back and forth in the corner and cry-laughing, but even they have their limits too, and she sounds like she's hitting it. I realize this is difficult for you too because you want to be with her, but you're going to have to sacrifice somewhere - whether it's financially to try to get her help or some other way - in order to help her because it sounds like her work is important to her. You are definitely important too, but this is apparently also something she wants/needs to do. Sit her down, tell her that her work is interfering with your relationship. You support her and you want to figure out a way for her to be able to do both that doesn't mess with the family dynamics. Then brainstorm. Good luck.

We have had the talks. And she does have some college students helping on various projects. I am on the board of her newest project and coordinating the technology we are rolling out.

I guess my frustration lies in sensitivity around the topic. I have several shortcuts, sayings, and personal philosophies that help me. Every time I bring one up she gets defensive - so I guess I'm looking for something that helps her with her struggles and isn't me telling her how I would deal with them.

[hi5yourface]

Even 5 minutes works at least to plant the thought in her mind. Even if she doesn't have the time right then give her an impression that you're willing and patient.

If your children are in school until 5 pm each day is it possible for you to come home on lunch breaks sometimes?

Also what do you mean by "in her shoes and fixed it"? Curious.

[mieu]

The most concerning thing is that she's working 10-12 hours, into the night, on top of helping take care of the kids. I understand that she works for herself, and that time is money, but she can't blame it on a dictatorial manager, she's doing it to herself. Try to figure out why...does she realize that she's almost literally a work-a-holic, and that it's taking her away from the relationship and making you unhappy in the process? Is she truly happy working that intensely on top of all her other obligations?

[masterpeach]

	Originally Posted by undfined To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But after a point in the day/night it seems so obvious to me to walk away from the daily grind.

You're a J at least - you can handle routine and planning better than your ENFP. She's probably already in tunnel vision/shadow function mode (due to stress; the ENFP's shadow is an unhealthy version of ISTJ personality traits). Your situation must be choking your wife and her dominant function (Ne, the part of her personality that probably made you love her 11 years ago).

NPs need a lot of unstructured down time to relax and unwind. Ne is about inspiration and new impressions. There's no room for it in your life it seems. Making room for it will get you your wife back, I think.

[catzmeow]

Originally Posted by undfined To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To the ENFPs and those of us who love them: 11 years into our marriage, at 33 years old, I find myself wrestling with the work / life balance. My parents struggled with this and their solution was a total and complete shutdown of anything work oriented after 9 pm. My father travelled a lot when I was growing up and he came to this conclusion on his own after a particularly rough patch. My mother recognized the frustrations and also came to. I don't really want to know the details, but the best advice they can give is to find a time and focus on each other. I knew this already. My wife grew up an orphan, and despite my explanations of my history I don't think it is clear that I am missing her. Sure we connect once or twice a week. That's just not good enough for me, or us. When I come home from work I need a good hour or so to recuperate, before I cook dinner. I have an office, small staff, and perpetual work. My hour (usually less) gets me into home life. We are ok there. My wife works for herself and does afternoon duties with the kids. While I change, make dinner, and watch over the kids she works. After dinner I handle the kids so she can get her 8 hours in. We trade bedtime stories with each kid, then she jumps back on the computer/project. I get an hour of email/research in before I am done and need to unwind. Once I unwind I want what guys want. Yes, daily. Meanwhile, she keeps working past the 8, and past the 10 hours. I woke up last week at 2 am to find her crying because she lost a file. I found it in 2 minutes. And got no thanks. The list goes on. I find myself constantly frustrated because I am missing her, even though I support her efforts. But after a point in the day/night it seems so obvious to me to walk away from the daily grind. I just can't find a way to explain to her why she needs to get better at us. I'm failing and need some help, which is really, really appreciated.

Why doesn't your wife shift her work schedule to the morning since it appears that her childcare duties are limited to the afternoon?

[undfined]

	Originally Posted by hi5yourface To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Even 5 minutes works at least to plant the thought in her mind. Even if she doesn't have the time right then give her an impression that you're willing and patient. If your children are in school until 5 pm each day is it possible for you to come home on lunch breaks sometimes? Also what do you mean by "in her shoes and fixed it"? Curious.

I make comments to seed ideas. Lately there's a lot of pushback, hence my frustration. I bought some card and word games I thought she would enjoy. They are still in the packages.

I'd come home everyday if that was an option! Yes, this is on the table often, but it takes 2 to make it happen.

By "in her shoes" I mean I've worked myself to loneliness before and she steered me correct and I saw my errors. That was 7 years ago. Problem is that her world is "different" somehow. I'm failing to see the difference.

---------- Post added 05-17-2012 at 02:57 PM ----------

Originally Posted by mieu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The most concerning thing is that she's working 10-12 hours, into the night, on top of helping take care of the kids. I understand that she works for herself, and that time is money, but she can't blame it on a dictatorial manager, she's doing it to herself. Try to figure out why...does she realize that she's almost literally a work-a-holic, and that it's taking her away from the relationship and making you unhappy in the process? Is she truly happy working that intensely on top of all her other obligations?

Good questions. I can't get them answered because she won't take the time to talk to me about it.

[masterpeach]

	Originally Posted by undfined To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I bought some card and word games I thought she would enjoy. They are still in the packages.

Extraverts turn into introverts when really stressed (=> alone time). Have you ever asked her what she really enjoys? Things you think she enjoys and things she really enjoys may not be the same...

Talking about stress and problems with someone who simply listens and doesn't offer solutions or expects instant recovery (high expectations make matters worse) helps as well. This someone is not necessarily one's spouse (esp. when this spouse is seen as a "stressor").

[undfined]

	Originally Posted by masterpeach To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	NPs need a lot of unstructured down time to relax and unwind. Ne is about inspiration and new impressions. There's no room for it in your life it seems. Making room for it will get you your wife back, I think.

By example, she hit the spa with some girlfriends a couple weeks ago and came home complaining it took too much time. She also recently got out with some other friends for dinner that turned into a 4 hour meal. I'm happy to oblige the relaxing and watch the kids while she does this. However, I need to be appreciated for it - why can't I have an hour from her social obligations too?

---------- Post added 05-17-2012 at 03:04 PM ----------

Originally Posted by masterpeach To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Extraverts turn into introverts when really stressed (=> alone time). Have you ever asked her what she really enjoys? Thinks you think she enjoys and things she really enjoys may not be the same... Talking about stress and problems with someone who simply listens and doesn't offer solutions or expects instant recovery (high expectations make matters worse) helps as well. This someone is not necessarily one's spouse (esp. when this spouse is seen as a "stressor").

Good point. I bought the games because she is a gamer and beats me most of the time. I guess I thought since we enjoy them together that I was looking out for us. And I bought them because we do end up talking over a game of Yahtzee or Battleship. That's probably not always a good thing.

[masterpeach]

	Originally Posted by undfined To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	By example, she hit the spa with some girlfriends a couple weeks ago and came home complaining it took too much time. She also recently got out with some other friends for dinner that turned into a 4 hour meal. I'm happy to oblige the relaxing and watch the kids while she does this. However, I need to be appreciated for it - why can't I have an hour from her social obligations too?

I think it's about pressure and expectations. She can't enjoy the time with her friends because of all her/your obligations. I am sorry that she doesn't appreciate your effort. A man who cooks for his family/wife?! Actually adorable, but I think you also make her feel inferior inadvertently because you seem to be able to handle your stress better. When you found her lost file in 2 minutes, she probably felt like an idiot. That's why she might not have said thank you (or she was "just" inattentive). ENFPs can be competitive. Deadlines and contingencies are an ENXP's natural enemies.

[undfined]

Originally Posted by masterpeach To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think it's about pressure and expectations. She can't enjoy the time with her friends because of all her/your obligations. I am sorry that she doesn't appreciate your effort. A man who cooks for his family/wife?! Actually adorable, but I think you also make her feel inferior inadvertently because you seem to be able to handle your stress better. When you found her lost file in 2 minutes, she probably felt like an idiot. That's why she didn't say thank you. ENFPs can be competitive. Deadlines and contingencies are an ENXPs natural enemies.

That's her. A thank you a day or 2 later is acceptable to me - hell it took me time to process that I didn't get thanked!

[masterpeach]

Did you tell her that it bothered you that you didn't get thanked (instead of processing it on your own)? I am not an ENFP - I have no clue how Fi as an auxiliary function works, but it is about values. INTJs and ENFPs share Fi ... can you somehow address your concerns by appealing to Fi? (I don't even know if you're familiar with Jung's cognitive functions theory.)

[undfined]

	Originally Posted by masterpeach To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Did you tell her that it bothered you that you didn't get thanked (instead of processing it on your own)? I am not an ENFP - I have no clue how Fi as an auxiliary function works, but it is about values. INTJs and ENFPs share Fi ... can you somehow address your concerns by appealing to Fi? (I don't even know if you're familiar with Jung's cognitive functions theory.)

Yes I told her the following day.

I am familiar but dusting cobwebs. My historical problem is I couldn't identify practical examples of each function. Can someone elaborate on some appropriate Fi tactics?

[masterpeach]

I recommend reading Naomi Quenk's "
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"

[HIDE="ENFP under stress"]

An ENFP described becoming curt with people, insensitive, literal, logical, and critical, and being especially insensitive and pedantic about language and vocabulary. Other ENFPs report doing obsessive record keeping, organizing data from their checkbooks, making endless lists of things to do, and putting minute details in order. “I become incredibly organized; everything is step by step when I’m under stress. I also act to get things done, not worrying as much about the impact,” said an ENFP. Many ENFPs report fanatically mowing the lawn or cleaning house and being unable to stop themselves, even though they typically view these activities as relatively unimportant and avoid them.

[/HIDE]

[HIDE="Stressors"]

	Other stressors consistently mentioned by both male and female Extraverted Intuitive types include the following: too much structure, routine, rigidity, planning, specifics, being watched, being forced to work alone, staying in the same environment, no change, repetition, being unable to deviate from an agenda, being overcontrolled by others, a prescriptive approach.

[/HIDE]

[HIDE="Relief"]

As is the case for most types, Extraverted Intuitive types in the midst of a grip experience need others to back off and avoid patronizing them. It can be helpful if some of the overwhelming details are attended to, but attempts to assist by taking over and “solving the problem” for them are not appreciated. Talking to trusted friends helps, especially for ENTP and ENFP women, as long as the friends don’t offer advice (or, if they do offer it, they don’t expect it to be taken), make judgments, or try to talk them out of their negative state. Movement out of the inferior function often is aided by a positive engagement of the Sensing function, especially in situations in which a neglect of behavior associated with Sensing has provoked an inferior function experience. Physical exercise, such as jogging, engaging in some quiet sensing, or visualizing a place of peace and silence can be helpful. ENFPs in particular mention exercise as helpful. For most Extraverted Intuitive types, attending to physical needs, such as sleeping a lot, eating good food, and getting massages, also accompanies the gradually diminishing effects of the inferior.

[/HIDE]

[HIDE="Fi"]It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words. As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in. There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life's situations. We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, "Sometimes, some things just have to be said." On the other hand, most of the time this process works "in private" and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the "essence" of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. [/HIDE]

Have you asked your wife if she's happy with her life as it is right now (she might fail to recognize that she makes you unhappy because she is not that happy herself)? What about a weekend getaway - just the two of you?

[FruitLoop]

You're not failing. This is just your life at present. It won't always be this way so don't be impatient.

So you have to hold on tight to each other, and remember that there are no flames, destruction, or loud hateful words, and no one has hit anyone, and things will ease off before long.

Perhaps there is something distracting to do in the meanwhile?

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by undfined To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Good questions. I can't get them answered because she won't take the time to talk to me about it.

How are things going for her, professionally speaking? Is she under a great deal of stress/pressure about her work?

To me, the scenario you describe sounds like it could be two things. One, maybe she feels like or has been told that she's performing poorly on her work. That would stress the shiz out of me, and make it impossible for me to connect emotionally with my partner, because I'd be feeling shame/frustration/fear/upset. Another possibility is that she doesn't feel close to you, and has structured her time around avoiding you.

ENFPs tend to be pretty appreciative of the little things by nature...if she's shut down and isn't functioning like an ENFP towards you, something serious is broken....either she is deeply unhappy with your relationship and has closed down emotionally towards you, or she's got major malfunction going on with her job, or something else is happening that has pushed her all the way over into ISTJ function.

Tell her that you need an evening to talk to her. Get a sitter who can watch the kids outside your home for an evening. Order food in. Don't go out. Sit down and ask her point blank what's going on with her, that you can tell something big is wrong, and that as her husband, you need to know what it is.

[undfined]

	Originally Posted by FruitLoop To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You're not failing. This is just your life at present. It won't always be this way so don't be impatient. So you have to hold on tight to each other, and remember that there are no flames, destruction, or loud hateful words, and no one has hit anyone, and things will ease off before long. Perhaps there is something distracting to do in the meanwhile?

My problem is yes, I have things to do. I'm gone all next week, out of town. While my posts here see like a temp period, the issue is ongoing for more than months at this point.

---------- Post added 05-17-2012 at 10:07 PM ----------

Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

How are things going for her, professionally speaking? Is she under a great deal of stress/pressure about her work? To me, the scenario you describe sounds like it could be two things. One, maybe she feels like or has been told that she's performing poorly on her work. That would stress the shiz out of me, and make it impossible for me to connect emotionally with my partner, because I'd be feeling shame/frustration/fear/upset. Another possibility is that she doesn't feel close to you, and has structured her time around avoiding you. ENFPs tend to be pretty appreciative of the little things by nature...if she's shut down and isn't functioning like an ENFP towards you, something serious is broken....either she is deeply unhappy with your relationship and has closed down emotionally towards you, or she's got major malfunction going on with her job, or something else is happening that has pushed her all the way over into ISTJ function. Tell her that you need an evening to talk to her. Get a sitter who can watch the kids outside your home for an evening. Order food in. Don't go out. Sit down and ask her point blank what's going on with her, that you can tell something big is wrong, and that as her husband, you need to know what it is.

I'm convinced it's all work related. In the off times we do connect there is the usual intensity and gratitude. It just doesn't linger like it used to or come as easily as it should.

We've had many talks previously - my approach just hasn't sunk in.

A friends advice earlier tonight was that while she saw one side before now she is seeing the other and will come around - it just takes time. I said I get that, but again we're going on and on. I don't want these countless months to turn into years.

---------- Post added 05-17-2012 at 10:35 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by masterpeach To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Have you asked your wife if she's happy with her life as it is right now (she might fail to recognize that she makes you unhappy because she is not that happy herself)? What about a weekend getaway - just the two of you?

One look at our Google calendar would kinda show what I am up against. If I cleared it, I'm taking an authoritative role and being disrespectful. We have all the other means in place for a good weekend.

To have a conversation around happiness would thrill me - just to have it.

Please note: this whole thread has really been helpful and given me a lot to think about.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by undfined To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	One look at our Google calendar would kinda show what I am up against. If I cleared it, I'm taking an authoritative role and being disrespectful. We have all the other means in place for a good weekend.

Don't clear it, then. Tell her that you need her to clear the calendar of a night next week, and to let you know by Monday which night it will be, so you can arrange a babysitter.

Let her choose the night.

Then, tell her how unhappy you are right now, and ask her what's happening that has caused this divide between you. Ask some probing questions (what, where, why, etc.):

What is happening with work right now that is making you feel you have to work so many hours?
What can I do to help lessen the load?
What do we need to do as a couple to ensure you get more down-time?

Be prepared for her to pretend like everything is okay,and keep redirecting her to the fact that you two spend very little time together, and that this situation IS NOT working for you, and that you two need to work together to fix it.

Then be prepared to step in and help with whatever is causing her to feel the need to be so obsessive about work.

[stock]

This thread makes me angry and resentful. I expect for the same reason she responds in an angry resentful way towards your attempts to address the issue.

I dont understand the root exactly, so let me ponder a bit and post later and see if I can untangle the source of the frustration.

[Distance]

Who does all the cleaning in your family and why isn't she working between 9 - 5 when the kids aren't home? Something's not adding up.

[PurpleGiraffe]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Who does all the cleaning in your family and why isn't she working between 9 - 5 when the kids aren't home? Something's not adding up.

I agree. Catz asked about it previously, but it wasn't answered.

Plus, "I want what guys want. Yes, daily." Daily? I get having your own sexual needs, but how often does she want sex? Maybe she doesn't want sex daily?

[stock]

You are seeing her baby ESTJ in action in slave to an Fi value.

She has a huge value stake in what she is working towards. She feels it is the "right" thing to do. Given the value incentive, she is driven to work harder and harder to complete the task-to not complete the task would be a failure to have followed through on what was "right", thus wrong and even threatening.

As long as "the task" remains incomplete, she will feel stressed and anxious constantly. It is like a gnawing, stress inducing worry. Even when spending time doing other things, things that should be fun, spending time with family, the gnawing worry is always there. When the task is complete, then everything is okay and she can relax. But before then, there is the feeling of anxiety around the task and the drive to complete the task.

If the task is infinite, the stress never goes away.

Very likely, the "rightness" of the task involves caring for others in some way-providing for others, possibly through bringing in income or securing the future of the business itself.

She is sacrificing herself, her time, her peace of mind in order to care for others and "do the right thing".

When you say "hey spend more time with me" it does two things:

1. It induces initial guilt that she is not doing the right thing by you

2. Then she thinks "but I am doing this because I care...if I care I throw in everything and expect others to do the same if they care...thus do you not care??? Are you not 100% in as part of the team? As part of the team we work together, share the work, sacrifice equally and do whatever it takes in the moment to result in the best outcome for all of us....

3. By pulling on her to stop work and do things that make you feel better it comes across as quite self-centric...you are pulling her away from work that is being done in the best interest of everyone, in order to get a bit of special attention to yourself...thus it feels selfish...

4. and since you would pursue your driven goals diligently, it feels unfair that you would ask her not to, just to pamper you...

Conclusion: You want me to stop work I am doing that helps people/us/others in order to pamper you. That's selfish. Why should i place you above all the others that i am working to help? the result is bitterness and frustration.

However it is rude to say this to you, thus she steams in silence and just keeps working hoping you will get the point. She is tired, stressed, burnt out and at her wits end.

Very likely you are also seeing her being driven by some of her early stress due to being an orphan. Biologically, physiologically, psychologically, she was molded to not have a solid person to attach to. A lack of a stable care provider, biologically, however improbable, translates into a fear that death could be imminant around ever corner thus she must be hyperviligent to protect herself-and others, when she feels threatened. This seems dumb and isnt what she thinks consciously, but it is what is running under the hood. I suspect the stress/anxiety wrt the task I mentioned above is drastically increased over a normal enfp, due to this early molding. It almost is a PTSD type response.

---------- Post added 05-18-2012 at 01:39 PM ----------

hmm, so differentials....


1. You restore yourself via Se-thus touching, sensual time, time relaxing and veging make you feel better. I would almost suggest they are mandetory for you. This is not true for her-she is refreshed by spending time alone, imagining. Actually, when she is stressed, physical touch is actually disturbing and perhaps even agitating. So if you keep wanting her to have sex and be sensual when she is stressed, she will withdraw from you. It fels invasive, bordering on forceful.

Solution-in the short term give her a shit load of space and enjoy your right hand, till you guys can make some progress
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Explain to her that part of how you bond is simply physical touch and that without that touch you feel like you are not as close as you once were.

2. You dont work in a team-NiTe. Her baby estj is TeSi, all about teamwork when stressed. thus be default, you look like you are being selfish if you fail to observe the team ethics at play.


Solution-when you ask her about this stuff, start my validating her value stance and how you have been a team player. Emphasize that you understand why she feels so strongly about what she feels and then give her a LIST of things you have done to support her... (the baby ESTJ loves lists)

"I know this means a great deal to you, right fully so, and I have tried to support you by watching the kids, cooking dinner, getting groceries, doing housework. I want to know what else I can do to help you. However i am concerned about us growing apart over the coming years. " Empasize the long term here...not the in the moment "I want to hook up" but the long term vision.

---------- Post added 05-18-2012 at 01:45 PM ----------

3. She needs to learn a few tricks from the ESTJs.

a. Schedule fun activities-plan fun. Add it to the long list of things to do. Since it is "on the official list" it doesnt feel like it is taking time from the list, given it is just another thing to do.

INTERMISSION-I have to go play with my four year old, be back later to finish this
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---------- Post added 05-18-2012 at 02:30 PM ----------

b. She needs to break the "infinite task" into digestible tasks. When each task is complete, then she needs to schedule a predesignated break.

c. Does she have a project plan that is even reasonable? Be a good helpful Te friend. Ask her to allow you to help her plan-take some of the burden if possible. Look at what she is attempting and help her break it down into tasks and sub-tasks and reasonable time frames. Then see if it is ridiculous amounts of work that can be parcelled out to other people.

d. When she gets guilty ask her to do the following-tell her to imagine she has an employee named sue. ask he to imagine that Sue is doing the amount of work she is doing and is exhausted and ask her how that would make her feel about the Sue. Then ask her to imagine herself in third person rather than Sue-why is it she is okay treating her third person self worse than she would treat Sue.

Finally-her sense of worth is wrapped up in this somehow. I cant emphasize how important it is that you share how you FEEL and you keep doing that. Fi is the whinest most passive agressive shit ever, and both INTJs and ENFPs will tend to Fi pout, rather than man the fuck up and talk to each other about how each other's actions amke them feel. When you do this and she starts to resist, I'd suggest pushing her and turning it into a fight. She will blow up at you and rant-your job is to let it all roll off of you, dont get offended and then you guys need to talk and both share what you feel and talk about what you need to do about it.

I'll ponder the Fi part more as I think it is important in the crazy working thing.