[Vagrant]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Weird. How come Hispanics have now become non-caucasians? Also, how does the U.S. classify 'mixed'? How many generations does it take to become 'pure'?

Same reason why Jews are considered white, even though historically Jews have been oppressed by Europeans -- Categorizing people is a tactic that can be used to shift or reduce power. None of this is based in any actual science.

[Arcannis908]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Are you suggesting that race and ethnic information would change how the information's disseminated? Why wouldn't the rest of the demographic information be sufficient for government agencies to disseminate information? Also, you've yet to provide any factual examples of such where with racial/ethnic information, it's actually helped assimilation.

Response to Paragraph 1: Yes, I am actually. It can be simple things like wording and imagery selection to make sure your message is taken the way you intend on distributed materials. Though it can even affect what media or language you use and can have a significant impact on message reception. Race and ethnicity is simply one part of that puzzle, and the more information you have, the better. It is possible to go without it yes, but there are times when it provides invaluable insight. What holds true for for-profit advertisers holds true with government advertisers.

I think I understand why you are arguing against the classification of people, but think you have the wrong target. You should be aiming your ire not at the collection of ethnic/race data, but it's misuse and improper collection methodologies. The collection itself is neither good nor evil, it's the use and methods that make can make it so.

Paragraph 2: Local school district (government agency) created a spanish immersion program for very young elementary school children, and is marketing it primarily to English speakers. Given the current political climate, I'm sure you can understand why they may have been careful about wording while they created the communications they had published. They didn't want to run people off, so they sidestepped making statements that might turn people away from the program by sparking knee-jerk anti-hispanic sentiment. In addition to considering demographics with promotion, they also probably took demographics into account with the program's inception. I think it's a wonderful program btw as language is an integral part of culture and thus understanding language bridges cultural gaps and brings people together. I assume this is what you mean by assimilation.

I only brought up marketing because it's at least near my sphere of knowledge and therefore assertions are easier for me to make. You can have a useful program, but fail to reach the appropriate audience.

Away from marketing, since I inadvertently focused conversation specifically on it:
Job placement assistance for ESL individuals.
The existence and public funding of cultural awareness programs, education, and festivals.
Start-your-own business programs that cater to particular population segments.

These generally don't come about without someone proving a need, often with stats, for their existence. Running them also requires insights into population groups, changes, and movements.

[Subgenius]

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Same reason why Jews are considered white, even though historically Jews have been oppressed by Europeans -- Categorizing people is a tactic that can be used to shift or reduce power. None of this is based in any actual science.

Huh? Jews are white and Indigineous indian hispanics are pretty much asiatic, though that number has a high variability all over the lower Americas.

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Same reason why Jews are considered white, even though historically Jews have been oppressed by Europeans -- Categorizing people is a tactic that can be used to shift or reduce power. None of this is based in any actual science.

The actual science disagrees with you.

[Vagrant]

	Originally Posted by Subgenius To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Huh? Jews are white and Indigineous indian hispanics are pretty much asiatic, though that number has a high variability all over the lower Americas.

*sigh*

You miss the point entirely. Entire groups of people with different ethnic backgrounds are often lumped into one category. For example, ALL of the Indian tribes are lumped together, despite there having been significant differences between some of them. Jews are lumped in with whites, yet historically have been outcasts as much as gypsies still are. People who are "black" are lumped together, despite "black" being common to peoples in the Southern hemisphere around the world.

The racial groups technically don't even exist, but genetically there are more differences within a "race" than there are differences between "races." The only reason we still use them is for convenience and tweaking social statuses.

	Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The actual science disagrees with you.

Because short quips are so informative.

[Tito]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How come Hispanics have now become non-caucasians?

The vast majority of hispanics in the US are of mixed race (mostly of the amerindian-European mix) and from Mexico. They never were caucasians. If anything, they are seen and treated as if they were full blooded amerindians without the legal benefits native americans get.

	Originally Posted by Distance
	Also, how does the U.S. classify 'mixed'?

Despite the government having facilitated mixed race people to identify according to their mix, at least in census forms, in practice people continue to negate the existence of the mixed people.

For example, look at the current president. Everyone know he's a mulatto (African-European mix), but people just pretend (including the president himself) that he's black.

The average American cares more about seeing the world as it should be rather than how it is.

The negation of the mixed race is extremely strong and most people (including most of the mixed race people) are oblivious to this.

	Originally Posted by Distance
	How many generations does it take to become 'pure'?

Such concept doesn't exist in the American mindset. If a person is born to two white parents, they are white. If one of the parents happens to be non-white, then the child will be seen and treated not just as a non-white, but as if s/he is completely non-white.

In fact, a mixed race person is expected to identify with his non-white side. If for any reason the person wishes to identify with their white side or with both sides, they will be seen and treated as if they suffer from an identity crisis.

Of course, the mixed race person is not the one with the problem, its society that has the issues.

That's how it is in the US of A.

Maybe at some point in the future we will come to terms with how the world truly is. Until then, lets continue with the make believe.

[Storm]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What if you don't speak it at home? What if it's just your birth language? What if you speak 3 languages and multiple dialects? Wouldn't it be of more use to ask what languages you do speak? I ask you again, what's the pertinency of identifying different races and ethnicities?

I don't remember the exact wording of the question, but the census is basically trying to figure out how many people speak English as a second language, or don't primarily speak English. It's useful to figure out boring things like what languages forms should be printed up in or what interpreters a city should hire. Keeping track of how many languages a person has learned isn't very useful from a government perspective, because the government only cares about language services they need to provide for people who do not primarily speak English.

Races and ethnicity are useful for cultural reasons, and therefore for a government trying to serve everyone. If you learn through the census that a large segment of your population is from a certain culture that considers red the color of death, then maybe you should repaint the red hospital. Race is useful because people actually do consider it important, and it works as a cultural divide even it shouldn't. Learning about how people have segregated themselves can help alleviate discrimination.

Take a look at old censuses, the classifications change according to the culture. It use to be that European immigrants lived in separate areas of the city and were treated differently. Now they are most all just "white" people, and so keeping track of that information has become less important.

Does keep tracking of these classifications ironically work to increase racism and divide? Maybe to an extent, but I think more it allows us to root it out.

As for this study that non-whites are having more kiddies than whites, no one seems to have asked why that is. Whites are still the majority in the U.S., so is it that whites are older? Is it that whites are better off economically, and therefore have less children? If that's true, why are minorities in a lower economic position? Is it due to discrimination? Just a matter of generations spent in the U.S.? Or are there just a large influx of younger immigrants?

I don't know the answers to these questions without more information, but these potential issues wouldn't come to light if the numbers weren't being tracked.

[Polymath20]

When there are are so many mixed-breed people today, what the fuck is the point of calling someone "white" versus "not-white". What the fuck is this? 1830?

[scorpiomover]

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	When there are are so many mixed-breed people today, what the fuck is the point of calling someone "white" versus "not-white". What the fuck is this? 1830?

Think about how many people talk about atheists versus theists, despite there being thousands of religions, and 10,000 different denominations of Xianity alone.

Then think about how people are classified into Conservatives versus Liberals, ignoring everyone in between.

Then think about how people are classified into Republicans and Democrats, as if that is all the Constitution allows.

People like labels. More specifically, they like labels that signify "Us" versus "Them".

[Shadizar]

36,000 denominations.

[Tito]

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	When there are are so many mixed-breed people today, what the fuck is the point of calling someone "white" versus "not-white". What the fuck is this? 1830?

This is the United States, where whites still form a majority of the population. Hence the terms white vs non-white. Non-white conveniently covers all those people that, for now at least, are not part of the majority. I guess we can actually write every single non-white type, including all the mixes, but that would just take too much time and space.

[Dru]

ugh, now the ignorant masses are going to get up-in-arms about this and think that it matters. AKA whitey.

[Arcanist]

Yeah, it matters because this country is importing people with primitive philosophies and worldviews. They'll hijack the system and eventually corruption will be open and brazen. But, to be fair, it's not like the current population holds views that are THAT much better. I mean come on, what can one expect from a population that views an Obama or a Romney as a serious political candidate. It's like they want to be used and abused by their betters as they willingly present their backhides to the lash.

[Moxiie]

Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yeah, it matters because this country is importing people with primitive philosophies and worldviews. They'll hijack the system and eventually corruption will be open and brazen. But, to be fair, it's not like the current population holds views that are THAT much better. I mean come on, what can one expect from a population that views an Obama or a Romney as a serious political candidate. It's like they want to be used and abused by their betters as they willingly present their backhides to the lash.

BWAHAHAHAHA!! As a full blooded American Indian I absolutely agree with the statement in bold - the flow of people with primitive philosophies and worldview started with the landing of the Mayflower and continues today.

[Arcanist]

	Originally Posted by Moxiie To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	BWAHAHAHAHA!! As a full blooded American Indian I absolutely agree with the statement in bold - the flow of people with primitive philosophies and worldview started with the landing of the Mayflower and continues today.

Oh, you poor thing. It must tear at your soul to accept those Federal dollars your ilk is "entitled" to.

[Moxiie]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Oh, you poor thing. It must tear at your soul to accept those Federal dollars your ilk is "entitled" to.

Please describe in more detail your knowledge of my "ilk"
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Cooper]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Oh, you poor thing. It must tear at your soul to accept those Federal dollars your ilk is "entitled" to.

You are making a rather racist statement. Perhaps you need to get a fucking education on those of us who were born here, and leave the personal fear you have out of it. What scares you the most, that she is a female or a "savage"?

[Arcanist]

	Originally Posted by Cooper To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You are making a rather racist statement. Perhaps you need to get a fucking education on those of us who were born here, and leave the personal fear you have out of it. What scares you the most, that she is a female or a "savage"?

Oh, in what way was that racist?

What scares me the most is that she is a statist who desires to impose some notion of collective guilt on a certain subset of society. As I said before, my parents came to this country in the 1970s. I don't owe you anything.

[Moxiie]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Oh, in what way was that racist? What scares me the most is that she is a statist who desires to impose some notion of collective guilt on a certain subset of society. As I said before, my parents came to this country in the 1970s. I don't owe you anything.

Actually, you do. When you choose to live in the U.S. - you choose to abide by the rule of law of this land, alas for you, a part of that rule of law is that American Indians are bound to the U.S. government for time immemorial through a complex process of treaties that were negotiated by earlier governments.

I'd suggest if one doesn't want to abide by them, that emmigration is always an option.

Now onto your knowledge of my ilk, it sounds like you are quite erudite in your articulation of history with specific regard to this topic.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Moxiie To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Actually, you do. When you choose to live in the U.S. - you choose to abide by the rule of law of this land, alas for you, a part of that rule of law is that American Indians are bound to the U.S. government for time immemorial through a complex process of treaties that were negotiated by earlier governments. I'd suggest if one doesn't want to abide by them, that emmigration is always an option. Now onto your knowledge of my ilk, it sounds like you are quite erudite in your articulation of history with specific regard to this topic.

I didn't chose to live here. I was born here by chance and currently bound by circumstance.

As for your ilk, or in less archaic terms, your type as in, a type of people. In this case, Native American. I don't care about them.

[Cooper]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How enlightened. ---------- Post added 05-21-2012 at 09:33 PM ---------- Oh, in what way was that racist? What scares me the most is that she is a statist who desires to impose some notion of collective guilt on a certain subset of society. As I said before, my parents came to this country in the 1970s. I don't owe you anything.

But you gladly take what is here, and have the nerve to whine about others coming here. Look up White Privilege.

[Moxiie]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I didn't chose to live here. I was born here by chance and currently bound by circumstance. As for your ilk, or in less archaic terms, your type as in, a type of people. In this case, Native American. I don't care about them.

But care enough to make a snarky, unnecessary comment about something which you quite obviously have little to no knowledge of?

How enlightened.

[Arcanist]

	Originally Posted by Cooper To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But you gladly take what is here, and have the nerve to whine about others coming here. Look up White Privilege.

Quick with that edit key, aren't we? Don't worry, I wouldn't have taken offense. They're only words, afterall.

And actually, no. I am for the free movement of people in certain circumstances. Those aren't met in today's America.

---------- Post added 05-21-2012 at 09:59 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Moxiie To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But care enough to make a snarky, unnecessary comment about something which you quite obviously have little to no knowledge of? How enlightened.

What is there to know? One of many groups joining in the chorus. Screeching over collective guilt and white privilege. Racism, oppression.

Do you even know what oppression is? We were almost wiped out by the Soviets because we were of noble heritage.

[Moxiie]

Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Quick with that edit key, aren't we? Don't worry, I wouldn't have taken offense. They're only words, afterall. And actually, no. I am for the free movement of people in certain circumstances. Those aren't met in today's America. ---------- Post added 05-21-2012 at 09:59 PM ---------- What is there to know? One of many groups joining in the chorus. Screeching over collective guilt and white privilege. Racism, oppression. Do you even know what oppression is? We were almost wiped out by the Soviets because we were of noble heritage.

Actually there is quite a bit to know - but making sweeping obtuse statements about a race of people without historical perspective simply acts to make one look....well.....for lack of a better word, idiotic. Many here in the country do it, so you aren't alone.

Of course I know what oppression is, what a silly question. I think what you are actually endeavoring to ask me is "Have I experienced oppression" - in which case I could answer that yes I have, in degrees, not perhaps in the same way my ancestors did or yours from the sounds of it, but indeed racism and subtle oppression still exist in contemporary American society.

Mother Russia seems to have changed, maybe you won't be subjugated to needless violent oppression because of your noble blood - should you decide to emmigrate to a more racially homogenous nation.

[wolfyx]

It is not the perpetuation of the "white race" that you should be worried about but the perpetuation of the "Western Values"... or the creation of a universal system of values that works and that can apply to all humans so we don’t have to worry anymore about nonsenses like "race", "nationality" or "religion" ...