[omega2]

I have a theory, which I haven't seen anywhere (maybe I'm not looking enough), that all kids are sensors. I remember being much more observant and detail-oriented than now. I think that now I am much better at drawing conclusions and making connections than I was before, and I noticed this in people around me. All iNtuitives used to be sensors in my experience. Is this a coincidence, or is it completely untrue. is it that most iNtuitors were sensors when they were kids, but a small minority of kids were Ns?

And another question, are INTJs forgetful? Not in the way where we forget to go shopping or forget to set an alarm clock, but I mean something else. Forgetful like you have an idea, and then forget it within 15 seconds.

^That second question is a perfect example, because I forgot what my original second question was going to be, so I made this one to fill the void of space glaring at me. I was going to ask something really interesting, but while I was typing the first thing about my theory, I forgot it completely. Does this happen to anyone?

[Smacknrat]

I dunno... I did actually read that a person's type can't be determined until after the teenage years (and even then it's subject to change near 18).

I remember playing pretend a lot as a kid, which I thought was an N trait. But characterizing a kid as either S or N is probably unfair.. more... They could've been different than as an adult.

[ppu6502]

Related question: Does a not-yet-developed or underdeveloped Ni look like a non-yet-developed or underdeveloped Si?

[jawa]

From what I've seen, you are born I or E but can be influenced to act the other way (such as being social even though you're an introvert). It's similar with S/N, except with N not showing up until way later. N takes experience to show and so it will only be seen in more mature humans. But I would say, not quite in tune with your theory, that all children are Sensors, but only the strongly S-oriented ones will develop into S's, with the others being N's in later years.

[Minerva]

Originally Posted by omega2 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I have a theory, which I haven't seen anywhere (maybe I'm not looking enough), that all kids are sensors. I remember being much more observant and detail-oriented than now. I think that now I am much better at drawing conclusions and making connections than I was before, and I noticed this in people around me. All iNtuitives used to be sensors in my experience. Is this a coincidence, or is it completely untrue. is it that most iNtuitors were sensors when they were kids, but a small minority of kids were Ns?

As far as I know, no. I would think that a very young child being more attuned to his surroundings was a defensive mechanism for survival. This is pure conjecture though. I have nothing to back that claim up.

Anyway, back to what you asked: A child develops his/her dominant function first. Take a look at
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. This page suggests that a child is either a S or a N. Take special note of the last section, "The Missing Letter."

	And another question, are INTJs forgetful? Not in the way where we forget to go shopping or forget to set an alarm clock, but I mean something else. Forgetful like you have an idea, and then forget it within 15 seconds.

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Yes! That has happened to the INTJs I know IRL.

	^That second question is a perfect example, because I forgot what my original second question was going to be, so I made this one to fill the void of space glaring at me. I was going to ask something really interesting, but while I was typing the first thing about my theory, I forgot it completely. Does this happen to anyone?

You need to develop your Si
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[Dancingqueen]

I think it depends on the child.

I consciously noticed "N" traits in my daughter at around age 5/6.

She asked why questions all the time and would not be happy with anything less than a fully thought out rational answer. She made comments about the immaturity of most of the other children at school and prefers the company of one child (boy) who she has deemed intelligent and not superficial or silly (her words). She said they spend recesses trying to figure out how the world works. It's a bit of a cheat though since my SO (INTp) has a very similar personality to her so I can follow her thought processes rather easily.

My son, En?TJ, is harder to type. He is interested in giving orders and making intricate plans. He loves people and he always need to know the schedule for the day ahead of time. I guess he's a very mild or yet to be developed N because he is constantly asking why, why, why and he has zero interest in details (he was tested for this and the test came back gifted). The psychologist said he's using his quick mind to compensate for his lack of ability to descern details. The jury's still out on his N-ness but all his good friends are obvious flaming INTJ/P's. He reminds me, in behavior, very much of myself as a child but he is more dominant and demanding than I was.

[scorpiomover]

Originally Posted by omega2 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I have a theory, which I haven't seen anywhere (maybe I'm not looking enough), that all kids are sensors. I remember being much more observant and detail-oriented than now. I think that now I am much better at drawing conclusions and making connections than I was before, and I noticed this in people around me. All iNtuitives used to be sensors in my experience. Is this a coincidence, or is it completely untrue. is it that most iNtuitors were sensors when they were kids, but a small minority of kids were Ns?

Sensors are either Si-doms or Se-doms. They display unique behaviour of their own, that INTJs do not show, not even when their abilities are undeveloped.

Take INTJs. If they started out as Sensors, they'd probably start out as ISTJs. If an ISTJ went to a birthday party, and someone got her dress dirty, she'd have a meltdown. Unless all INTJs did that as kids, INTJs as kids, were probably INTJs with under-developed Ni and under-developed Te. That might resemble many NTs' perceptions of Sensors.

[Thinker]

My (anecdotal) experience with young children is that their preferences can be fairly obvious early on.

My daughter almost from the time she opened her eyes was observant and patient with her responses with almost no impulsive reaction. Her female cousin was anxious and nervous, reacting emotionally to almost every input around. Those traits have continued and my daughter at age 15 is indicating the preferences of an INFP/INTP....her cousin (at 14) is a strong ESFJ.

I would hazard a guess that the preferences are there early on and are then subject to the parental, family and social/cultural environment. Preferences can either be encouraged or discouraged through social interactions. I suspect that both children have had their traits encouraged though their parents (Daughter (parents) = INTJ/ENFJ , Cousin (sole parent) = ESFJ).

I also suspect it depends how "strong" the initial preferences are.

[nharkey]

Originally Posted by omega2 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I have a theory, which I haven't seen anywhere (maybe I'm not looking enough), that all kids are sensors. I remember being much more observant and detail-oriented than now. I think that now I am much better at drawing conclusions and making connections than I was before, and I noticed this in people around me. All iNtuitives used to be sensors in my experience. Is this a coincidence, or is it completely untrue. is it that most iNtuitors were sensors when they were kids, but a small minority of kids were Ns? And another question, are INTJs forgetful? Not in the way where we forget to go shopping or forget to set an alarm clock, but I mean something else. Forgetful like you have an idea, and then forget it within 15 seconds. ^That second question is a perfect example, because I forgot what my original second question was going to be, so I made this one to fill the void of space glaring at me. I was going to ask something really interesting, but while I was typing the first thing about my theory, I forgot it completely. Does this happen to anyone?

What I can say with some certainty is that many parents of young children see N qualities in them and report it on our tests. For examples of our tests see
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, and go to Temperament Sorters on the nav bar. The age 4-8 group alone has over 600 tests taken by the parents for the children, and has considerable statistical reliability.

I do agree that this gets much clearer as children get older and is much clearer in children who have strong preferences, but parents who are sensitive to this, and observant do report differences.

[Findley]

It would seem that a young INTJ with underdeveloped Ni would resemble an ISFP (due to having the same functions, just in different order), rather than resembling an ISTJ.

[Dancingqueen]

I think we develop our functions in order. For example my En?TJ son is exhibiting mostly Te (non-stop to the point of earplugs needed). This may be masking or hiding his Ni function (second in function stack). He has not much of a conscience yet (low Fi) and has a very underdeveloped Se (bumps into walls in his own house on a regular basis due to not paying attention to where he's going).

As a kid, my Ni was probably the most notable thing about me, but now you wouldn't be able to tell because an adult I can use Se in combination with the Ni to fake my way through most surface conversations.

[omega2]

Thanks for all of the replies.

@Minerva
That page described me perfectly as a kid. Even now, it still rings true in many aspects.
@Scorpionmover
I'm kind of bad with cognitive functions. So does that mean INTJs with a weaker than average Ni have a stronger than average Se? And then weaker than average Te would mean stronger than average Fi?
@Findley
Do you think it's possible that I used to have stronger Fi than I do now? Is that a byproduct of my surroundings, where being bullied a lot as a kid forces you to be a T?
@Dancingqueen
Your first post described me pretty well, and the second one makes sense, but Ni has always been a thing that I don't really know I have, so I don't know if I got it first. I remember having strong Te since age 10ish, but my Ni may have been with me so long that I don't know that I actually have anything different from others. Making connections and drawing conclusions has come naturally to me and I always assumed that everyone could use Ni.

--

So in conclusion, my theory is in need of revision. It could be more like this: Kids are generally very observant regardless of type, because its necessary for them to be brought up. However, N children exist and usually have N characteristics, albeit being less pronounced than an N teenager or adult. Also, child rearing can have a significant impact on type, where an introvert can be forced to become an extravert, or a feeler can be forced to become a thinker.


New question:
Perhaps it is harder to make a thinker more emotional, or to make an extravert more introverted?

[Findley]

	@Findley Do you think it's possible that I used to have stronger Fi than I do now? Is that a byproduct of my surroundings, where being bullied a lot as a kid forces you to be a T?

As the INTJ types' third function, Fi mostly resembles a moral code that INTJs find is the correct way to operate within. It's safe to say your experiences probably expanded your Fi. However, the bullying also probably forced you to operate with Fi (or Se) as your lead function -- temporarily -- during this period, to survive. This probably led to growing pains and stress, and really sapped your energy.

If you consider the bullying a turning point in your life, yes, it's possible that you operate the way you do by suppressing your feelings -- creating emotional distance -- and then outwitting your adversaries.

[thecase]

It makes sense that most kids are sensors. I actually just took an MBTI test that was based on age. After taking it for myself, and getting INTJ (with a strong preference for each variable). I put in "10 years old", and took it based on my 10 year old self. I do have a rather vivid memory of my childhood. Anyway, my results were ESTJ - So I guess my introvertedness and intuition developed over time.

[WindUp]

No. It's quite apparent to me when a child has a strong N preference. My little cousin is a poster child ENFP. He comes up with so many different associations and possibilities, and has an excitement for anything new that screams Ne-dom.

[Causa Mortis]

Originally Posted by omega2 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I have a theory, which I haven't seen anywhere (maybe I'm not looking enough), that all kids are sensors. I remember being much more observant and detail-oriented than now. I think that now I am much better at drawing conclusions and making connections than I was before, and I noticed this in people around me. All iNtuitives used to be sensors in my experience. Is this a coincidence, or is it completely untrue. is it that most iNtuitors were sensors when they were kids, but a small minority of kids were Ns? And another question, are INTJs forgetful? Not in the way where we forget to go shopping or forget to set an alarm clock, but I mean something else. Forgetful like you have an idea, and then forget it within 15 seconds. ^That second question is a perfect example, because I forgot what my original second question was going to be, so I made this one to fill the void of space glaring at me. I was going to ask something really interesting, but while I was typing the first thing about my theory, I forgot it completely. Does this happen to anyone?

I don't ever recall mechanically thinking differently than I do now. My focus has always been on the future and on possibilities and on ideas. Am I today a more careful, considerate, erudite thinker? Of course, but the mechanism itself has never changed.

[Sinequanon]

No, I was definitely an abstractly thinking child.

[nharkey]

Originally Posted by omega2 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thanks for all of the replies. @Minerva That page described me perfectly as a kid. Even now, it still rings true in many aspects. @Scorpionmover I'm kind of bad with cognitive functions. So does that mean INTJs with a weaker than average Ni have a stronger than average Se? And then weaker than average Te would mean stronger than average Fi? @Findley Do you think it's possible that I used to have stronger Fi than I do now? Is that a byproduct of my surroundings, where being bullied a lot as a kid forces you to be a T? @Dancingqueen Your first post described me pretty well, and the second one makes sense, but Ni has always been a thing that I don't really know I have, so I don't know if I got it first. I remember having strong Te since age 10ish, but my Ni may have been with me so long that I don't know that I actually have anything different from others. Making connections and drawing conclusions has come naturally to me and I always assumed that everyone could use Ni. -- So in conclusion, my theory is in need of revision. It could be more like this: Kids are generally very observant regardless of type, because its necessary for them to be brought up. However, N children exist and usually have N characteristics, albeit being less pronounced than an N teenager or adult. Also, child rearing can have a significant impact on type, where an introvert can be forced to become an extravert, or a feeler can be forced to become a thinker. New question: Perhaps it is harder to make a thinker more emotional, or to make an extravert more introverted?

Well, if we assume that basic preferences are genetically determined they should not really change. I think that circumstances may cause you to change your behavior, and this may confuse others about you, and maybe even confuse you, yourself, but the underlying preferences, if they were true in the first place, should not change.

[joliet]

No. I made use of my sensing function a great deal, much more than I do now, but I think I always had character that reflected intuition.

I think children make use of their functions with fewer filters, while adults tend to filter themselves more. Perhaps you were just using your sensory functions without filter, and as you observed and collected facts, began processing an intuitive system as an Ni-user. Or perhaps you just switched personality types after being triggered by your environment.

I think an environment can switch a Sensor into an Intuitive, and vice-versa. I think it's actually very possible to train a Sensor to becoming Intuitive, but only before they completely mature during their late teens/early twenties. I think it's harder to switch an Intuitive into a Sensor past ages 5-7, which are the ages when children develop their abilities to reason and think about abstract concepts.


So, although you may be onto something that before the age of 5, we aren't so great at understanding abstract concepts, I think character and preferences are different from skill. When I was 3, I was probably an Intuitive who sucked at understanding abstract or intuitive concepts (try running the idea of the universe past me,) but I was still pretty N (tendencies towards delayed gratification, etc.)

To support the idea that an environment triggers Intuitive or Sensing leanings, I remember the specific experience that really engraved a preference towards delayed gratification in me. If that experience never happened, maybe I wouldn't have had such a strong Intuitive beginning.

[Silverity]

Question for the OP, have you ever worked with kids or been in a classroom full of them? I think when you get a bunch of them together it becomes apparent that some of them are miniature deep thinkers right from the get-go, you can also see it in the questions they ask, many of them wanting to know, what is this? What is that? And then others looking at you intensely and demanding "How does that work? WHY is this a certain way". It's kind of adorable.. <.<; Even when they're being hyper active and racing around with 10-minute attention spans, what they do, how they do it and what they're priorities are is pretty different.

[reckful]

I suspect that, at least to some extent, all four of the MBTI preferences are probably in place pretty early on.

That said, I also think it's probably fair to say that, absent countervailing factors in individual cases, childhood tends to exert at least mild tugs in the E, S and P directions — with the result that, if you compare a 30-year-old to their 10-year-old self, it's somewhat likely the 10-year-old version was more E (or less I, as applicable), more S (or less N), and more P (or less J) than the 30-year-old version.

For what it's worth, Jung said, "Sensation is strongly developed in children and primitives, since in both cases it predominates over thinking and feeling, though not necessarily over intuition."

[omega2]

@Silverity
I think your question more or less made me come to a realization. It's not that I was an S, but that I had many N characteristics as I do now (Why is this/that, deep thinking, etc.), but I had more S than I do now.

@Reckful
Great explanation, that reassures what I was thinking about Silverity's post.

[CrudeHypothesis]

Rather than all kids are sensors, I would say all kids have minimal development of all functions. I just think Sensing is more observable than intuition early on, and the I/E dichotomy is directly observable, but not fixed yet.

I was heavily introverted and intuitive as a child. I'd draw machine designs and daydream, and wonder around the school alone during class, and read encyclopedias in quiet places during lunch if I couldn't find someone to play chess with.

[babsa]

I was completely unobservant and i always asked my father endless questions about everything... I always wanted to know how things worked, why things did what they did. I think i was always N dominant.