[JackParrish]

This thread represents an attempt to give advice to young INTJs (hell, us older folks, too). For this reason the OP will be a bit long.

My story is a bit different than some, but I'll spare you the details.

The important point is that I was well into my career when I found about about MBTI and INTJ. I felt that I had struggled through so many things, earned my cognition and personality, and was a bit of an anomaly.

Then I read about INTJ and learned that I was fairly run of the mill. The process of coming up to speed was a true process of self discovery for me. There were so many things I wished I had been told earlier, but none the less I seemed to follow an INTJ type trajectory. Studied religion, law, business analysis, and then finally came into the full realization of my career passion as a strategy consultant.

It was a long, hard process.

After spending time researching and on these forums, I realized that one of the principle issues that affected my coming of age was that there are so few mentors that know how to help INTJs. In general, we don't think quite like others and much of the platitudinal advice given to people can actually set us back, not move us forward.

So in no particular order, I'd like to try and give just a little back (in thanks for these forums helping me learn about myself) and give some advice for young INTJs.

No, it will not all apply to everyone. But here are some of the things I wish had been told to me. And I'll speak male to male only to make it more authentic to my own voice, but anything can be translated for the most part. There may be great women to women INTJ mentorship that I'm not aware of, but my guess is that they are just as barren as we are and I'm not excluding anyone by my pronouns.

Please add more, as I have much to learn as well and could use some advice about "living la vida INTJ".

Numbered not for importance but simply to make discussion easier.

#1. Stereotypes. There are many INTJ stereotypes. DON'T pay attention to them. Most of these are created by those who are NOT INTJs, and it's more of how they try and make sense of how you think.

For the most part, the stereotypes are simply things to give you excuses for not rounding yourself out.

You've heard them all and you'll hear more. Evil genius. Mastermind. Robot. Awkward with relationships. Loner.

Yes, there is a thread of truth in some of these. But none of these are prophesies that must be true. INTJ is much more about HOW you think, curate information, connect patterns, and behave in the social fabric as a result. The stereotypes are more like warnings, carved in the rocks along the path of your journey, about what you MAY BECOME if you fail to focus, expand yourself, and build depth into your personality.

The fact that groups drain your battery instead of recharge it does not mean you must be "awkward in groups". It means to choose your groups carefully (strategically). You are more than capable of enjoying yourself in groups, just know that you'll be wasted at the end of it and if you are haphazard about your social world you'll unnecessarily wear yourself down too much, too often.

Meeting women doesn't have to be awkward, either. You have all the confidence in the world as an INTJ once you understand the systems you are operating within. So learn about women, about society, about masculinity, and about sex in the deep an intuitive ways that we can study physics or supply chains. There is no reason you cannot be the most magnetic person in the room regardless of if you're the social butterfly or not.

Do not let stereotypes tell you that relationships must be hard. They're hard for everyone, but no harder for INTJs than others. Just hard in different ways. And in fact, we have the ability to be AMAZING in relationships so long as we are strategic about it.

#2. Be Strategic. Strategy is, in essence, the ability to make decisions about how to use limited resources to create relative advantages. That is, how to take not enough of something--time, energy, money, people--and use it for advantage in your current situation. If you've got to knock out Ali in the boxing ring it will require much different use of resources than to knock out the town drunk.

Never fight the drunk with Ali resources, and never prepare for Ali as if he were the town drunk.

As an INTJ, keeping your sense of proportion about how to use your internal resources and relate them to the realities of your environment will be a defining tension across your entire life. Face it now, and you have much to gain.

The good news is, as INTJs, we are better equipped for strategy than anyone. This is because we largely think in patterns and their connections and outcomes (more on this later). However, don't wait until you're old to begin to hone this skill. It is ungodly important.

If your batteries get run down by groups--no matter how much you love it or hate it--then ONLY engage with the groups that give you an advantage. Don't make useless friends. Save energy for the job interviews, etc. Pursue the women you can be decisive about and then focus your energy on them instead of giving 5% of your energy to every women you meet which leaves being pretty much dead all the time and useless to most of the women in your life.

But when you engage groups, communicate, or pursue a women--do it with the skill and force of your INTJness. You have the ability to know the system--you know what can be offered to them that is of great value (Ni), and how to communicate in ways they can digest (Te). So get better and better at those things. LIVE strategically, not just think strategically.

#3. Systems. Not all INTJs are alike, but for many (me included) all I think about are systems. I'm connecting patters all around me all the time. It is the heart of the INTJ, in some ways. How are these things related? Where is this going? There is more going on here, but what? Where is this headed and how can I make it better?

This skill must be honed to be productive. It can also be crippling. The choice is yours about what it will be.

Until you learn to organize this, you can spend a lot of time FRUSTRATED. In fact, many INTJs go through long periods where they think they can't focus, are OCD, are insomniacs, or are just plain dumb. They dont read, they avoid both social and intellectual complexity, and they feel completely at odds with their character.

A huge part of this is that if you cannot keep all these systems and patterns in your head in some sort of order or framework, you can get overwhelmed. And humans hate that feeling and expend great energy and chemicals in their brain to fight this.

We all have our different systems for organizing our heads, and no system is exactly alike.

Find yours.

It will transform you. It is worth struggling through. All of a sudden you will have a latticework of ideas in your head that allow you to put information into even deeper patterns and contexts and your brain will begin to crackle with electricity like you have not felt it before. For some INTJs, they describe it almost as a religious "awakening" period in their life. "I always thought I was dumb or messed up or something, and then a year or two later, I was engaging problems more advanced than I ever thought possible...".

You will start to read more. Research more. Dig deeper into everything. You will take up a hobby or a study pattern and become a guru on it in a few weeks/months, and then move on and do it again. Over and over, MASTERY of whole silos of knowledge will become easy. And then you'll start putting them together in new ways in your head.

What before caused you such distress, once honed and disciplined, will now give you amazing energy and satisfaction.

But there is hard work to get there. It's why you cannot "fake" INTJ. If it's not you--it is NOT you. If it IS you, there is no escaping it.

#4. Since you know systems, you know VALUE. This is critical. Since you have the ability to know how things work in reality, you have the ability to uncover what makes things valuable and in what contexts.

Water is much more vital to human beings, and yet diamonds command a higher price. Why? Under what circumstances do diamonds continue to be more monetarily valuable? Under what circumstances does water become more valuable? What could lead to that type of situation?

You can apply this to every job you ever work. Or every women you pursue. Or every personal research project. FIND THE VALUE! Not everyone can do this, and few can do it as intuitively and thoroughly as you can. It is a skill that MUST be worked on to be accurate. Nothing about INTJ says you'll be any good at whatever patterns you connect, only that you do it.

But once you get good at this, you have the ability to be the most valuable person in the lives of everyone around you. You can become a kingmaker, which is where we are naturlaly most comfortable.

You can make yourself and other investors millions of dollars in the entrepreneurial world.

You can make the women you engage more secure and feel their life is richer for having you in it.

You can teach a politician how to connect deeply into the social fabric of the campaign you are managing (all while you're dismantling the opponent's operation at the same time).

You can go to social events and not speak much, but make others greatly respect you for what you have to say.

And on and on and on.

When you add values to others, your dance card is never empty. All of your quirks become "the price of genius" and others will become giving and loyal (instead of constant rejection and energy expenditures trying to keep some sort of social calendar that you don't even want).

When I was in fourth grade we had to draw a picture of "what we want to be when we grow up" and write an explanation.

I said I wanted to "make others rich". My teacher asked "how?" I answered "any way I am able."

She wrinkled her brow at me and said, "Why would you want to do that?"

I said, "because if I learn how to make others rich, I don't have to worry about much in my own life. I'll be well taken care of."

That has stayed with me and is one of the most productive overlays to my INTJness. If you hone your skill, you will have the ability to make kings or to destroy people. I suggest you focus most on creating value. Science, business, nonprofit--doesn't matter.

#5. If you don't know where to start, look for intersections. Because INTJs are able to engage (and enjoy!) digging into very complex systems, we can also understand these systems when they INTERSECT. Most others start to break down at these points, and lose the thread, and get confused.

But we can dig deeper.

Just start with any two things that interest you. Pull it out of your ***. Robotics and Kites. Sociology and bookmaking. Sports and cancer research. Crowdsourcing and finance. Religion and economics. Military defense and children's toys.

Most of these individual systems alone can weigh many folks down. They get really good at very limited things (if they even get good at all). But we can dig into the models, the frameworks, and the systems across multiple fields and show where these intersections are and how they interact.

Finding these intersections is a great way to make yourself valuable immediately. First of all, the more intersections you explore the more you understand the fabric that governs our entire society and our world. But secondly as you get good at this the less you are baffled or intimidated by small, less complex issues. All of a sudden a supply chain issue within an entrepreneurial startup is not such a hard problem to engage. You will also make your high school, college, graduate papers INFINITELY more interesting. Or writing a business plan for your brother in law. You get the point.

Whenever you get stuck, or if you want to work on your skill set, don't look for single threads. Others do that and it is a pretty cheap and common gift. Look for where they intersect.

I'm not saying not to focus. Only focus on how complex systems interact with each other.

#6. Everything is a Case Study. Don't waste a single opportunity. Everything around you can give you further and further insight on what MAY BE happening, what may be possible, and how to improve the world (it's systems, patterns, and interactions) all around you. Everything you do or see can help you in this.

So never be afraid of menial work. Gardening, taking on a coffee shop job, opening doors at a hotel--all of this can be an amazing inside look into case studies. NEVER feel that work you do is beneath you.

Work at Starbucks? Get the inside view on one of the most engineered and productive employee training systems in the USA. Serve fast food? Get an inside view into advanced supply chain logistics and human behavior patterns. Pull doors at the Ritz? See how customer service scores are affected by even the smallest behaviors, learn to solve socially complex problems under pressure, and see how complex business operations can be made more efficient.

The point is, nothing ACTUALLY has to be a waste of your time. This is not true for other cognitive types. I'm not saying don't be strategic. Try and get jobs and work in fields that help you learn and that satisfy you.

Just remember that wherever you are, you are in position to understand more of the invisible systems that govern the universe.

Think about it like the "matrix" of business. Look at the room you're in. There's a wall that probably has paint on it. How did the wall get there? It was brought by someone who employed laborers. They were paid to assemble it. Each one of them had tools, that were also transported, purchased, assembled, and manufactured. The wall builders got the wall materials which were transported to them from another location where the materials were purchased and assembled.

The paint was made by someone. They used powders and dyes. Some were created in research labs thousands of miles away. Some methods of dye were given up, despite their rich colors, due to efficiency or production volume or costs. However, some of the dyes got into the paints which got to paint suppliers which were bought to put on the wall. All the companies had names and logos and branding that were designed with specific fonts that were designed by font designers, sign makers, and etc, etc, etc.

And we haven't even begun looking at the lamp on the desk next to you, or the micro components all vibrating with electricity behind the screen you are reading this on.

This is just the business matrix, not even the scientific or social matrix at play.

Point is, you can trace even the most simple things around you back through the systems that created them all the way back into the ground when they were raw materials, and then back through history as explorers and nations fought wars to secure these resources. And you can also take things forward and understand how sustainable this resource use will be, where these systems will end up, and how to make them work better both today and their through their future evolutions.

Fast food job my ass. It's like an internship with God himself if you just keep your INTJ mind even a little bit focused.

#7. Yes, you have emotions. One joke/stereotype of INTJs is that we don't have emotions. NOT TRUE. It's just that once we've understood how something works at a deep level, and what it means, we don't really care if some SF comes by and says it must not be right because it doesn't fit with some model they have.

We know our model is likely better than theirs. Though we are willing to give a second to hear if they've uncovered something we have not. Because if so, we'll be delighted to have a way to make our model more robust. Most of the time, though, the SF starts going into "well, my horoscope said..." and we just tune them out.

But you do have emotions. When you find yourself vulnerable to this and insecure, USE IT AS A RESEARCH PRIORITY. We have the amazing ability to gain confidence. So DO it. If you're great in physics but are terrified of women...LEARN THAT SYSTEM and the patterns that govern it. In time, your confidence will be right up there with other areas of your life.

Don't let some prediction that you're "socially awkward" have any power over you because it doesn't.

#8. When Things Go Wrong. When times get hard, it's easy to turn to things like heavy drinking or drugs to dampen the thinking in your head. Especially under stress and when you have no time alone all day, and even when exhausted, you may not be able to get your mind to turn off and go to sleep.

Just be careful is all. Follow the pattern out in your head to see where it is going, and be brutally honest and objective if you have a problem.

Ideally, the best method is to slowly engineer your environment and behaviors into ways that work WITH your INTJ, not against. For me, I need time to wind down every night. My ritual is a glass of red wine and time alone. At least an hour at night before I go to bed. In the morning I wake up and do a light workout, and have my coffee and news for at least a half hour (or hour).

For me this gave me the ability to ease in and out of my day and my thought patterns, and I generally have no trouble sleeping. However, when things get hard or when I just live life reactively and don't watch out, I can get run down way too far end up fighting my brain at night instead of sleeping.

I have known more than one brilliant INTJ that has destroyed their marriages, their bodies, and their lives like this. They were not strategic about using their energy well, got way too run down, had it affect their stress levels, the stress kicked in their weaknesses and loss of sleep, and they ran out of runway.

The good news is that INTJs seem to be a bit less likely to develop "behavioral" addictions than others. If it's genetic, you're screwed. But you may be a bit better able to think through things instead of just being led along by them.

Be proactive about your life patterns. You have the ability to look deeply into them. Do it. Make sure you don't just work on everyone else's systems and efficiency--make yours work better too. And be aware of insomnia in stressful times, and deal with it proactively and early.

***These are just the very most critical things, and the post is well long enough. I'll add more later.

Perhaps you find none of this to be useful. Fair enough. But it doesn't mean I don't wish a mentor had sat me down, talked plainly, and explained this years ago.

There are not enough INTJ mentors out there, and they are hard to find. I hope that some advice can be offered here to help folks through that gap, and maybe you'll have an easier and quicker time sorting through your wild INTJ brain than I did.

Cheers.

*Also, please forgive any spelling/grammar issues. I'm on a long layover in an airport on an iPad. I will try to correct when I have a better screen.

[Ghostwheel]

I think you should write a book: The Young Man's Guide To Being INTJ.

Too late for me, of course, but I could've used it long ago, especially as a teen, when my family was trying to find out what was "wrong" with me.

[psykhe]

Wow, this is what young INTJs should read instead of playing Game of Thrones all the day.

	Originally Posted by JackParrish To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You've heard them all and you'll hear more. Evil genius. Mastermind. Robot. Awkward with relationships. Loner.

True, true.

	Originally Posted by JackParrish To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Strategy is, in essence, the ability to make decisions about how to use limited resources to create relative advantages.

I am honestly on the process of realigning myself re this. Complex human systems sometimes make this 'strategy' hard to come into fruition.

	Originally Posted by JackParrish To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You can become a kingmaker, which is where we are naturally most comfortable.

Yes, a role I'm more comfortable with.

	Originally Posted by JackParrish To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Please forgive any spelling grammar issues. I'm on a long layover in an airport on an iPad. I will try to correct when I have a better screen.

I'm interested to know what's your advice about "owning one's mistake". INTJs are not very good at this.

[JackParrish]

	Originally Posted by psykhe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm interested to know what's your advice about "owning one's mistake". INTJs are not very good at this.

First, to your point of "complex human systems" making it tough--yes. They do. However, keep in mind that advantage is relative.

If you're going up against a world, person, or system that is perfect then you need to really get your ass in gear. You must be perfect just to gain parity.

But if they are imperfect, then you must only match them to gain parity, and go one step beyond for advantage (superior performance).

That's a technical strategy way to say that if you put in good effort and are reasonably right in how you've considered your strategy, you're probably way beyond most folks in most real situations and should do just fine. Most folks are not strategic at all, but tactical, and just put their resources into whatever is in front of them at the moment. Even an average strategy, in many situations, can give strong advantages.

To your quote, if I've understood your question properly, I have two things to say:

1. All human beings are pretty horrible at owning their mistakes, for the most part. Some because they don't want to be wrong, others because they don't want to lose the respect of others. It's just a human problem.

2. INTJs tend to be very good at owning their mistakes once they realize what they did wrong, what caused it, and that it was, indeed, their mistake. But getting to that point might take some work.

The problem has many sources, but generally I think INTJs put a lot of time into some of their thoughts and conclusions, and that makes them feel like they have EARNED THE RIGHT to be "right" more often than not.

But this is a fallacy.

We don't earn the right to be right. We are either correct or incorrect. Effort has nothing to do with that. All the effort to reach a conclusion can earn you respect for your rigor (which I believe is ungodly important), but it has nothing to do with the outcome.

You can work for years and come to the conclusion that you don't believe in trucks. Good for you, believe whatever you like. But I'm still not going to go have a picnic with you on the freeway no matter how long you spent arriving at your conclusion.

Is there a correlation between those who are rigorous in their thinking and research and those that come to good conclusions? Yes. I believe there is a powerful correlation. But rigor does not CAUSE correctness just by being in attendance.

I think this causes many INTJs to misjudge and thus become generally defensive whenever someone points out something that is "wrong".

[jndiii]

	Originally Posted by JackParrish To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	#1. Stereotypes. There are many INTJ stereotypes. DON'T pay attention to them. Most of these are created by those who are NOT INTJs, and it's more of how they try and make sense of how you think.

INTJs are, in general, much sillier and gentler than our stereotypes make us out to be.

	#2. Be Strategic. Strategy is, in essence, the ability to make decisions about how to use limited resources to create relative advantages. That is, how to take not enough of something--time, energy, money, people--and use it for advantage in your current situation. If you've got to knock out Ali in the boxing ring it will require much different use of resources than to knock out the town drunk.

Or, rather, if there is no good answer to the current question, figure out what the "right question" is.

#3. Systems. Not all INTJs are alike, but for many (me included) all I think about are systems. I'm connecting patters all around me all the time. It is the heart of the INTJ, in some ways. How are these things related? Where is this going? There is more going on here, but what? Where is this headed and how can I make it better? ... We all have our different systems for organizing our heads, and no system is exactly alike. Find yours.

My answer: learn to "not think." It kind of goes with #2, above. If things don't make sense, you're thinking about them wrong. You're asking the wrong questions. Finding the right context is like finding the right language, or the right decoder key: without it, nothing makes sense, but with it, everything makes sense.

INTJs need to beware of 2 always-wrong decoder keys: 1) everyone else is stupid, and 2) everyone else is evil. These work to "explain" why you're right and everyone else is wrong, but the problem is that the explanation works even when you're wrong ... especially when you're wrong.

	#4. Since you know systems, you know VALUE. This is critical. Since you have the ability to know how things work in reality, you have the ability to uncover what makes things valuable and in what contexts.

I think this one is more peculiar to you, and not INTJs in general.

If I were to generalize, I'd say that INTJs need to learn what OTHERS value, and use that to figure out how to get by.

But then, I'd add a further admonishment: others value things for lots of various reasons, even things that don't make sense in terms of typical INTJ values. Sometimes, these other values are important truths that need to be recognized as true, even though there is no INTJ-ish rationale for adopting such truths.

#5. If you don't know where to start, look for intersections. Because INTJs are able to engage (and enjoy!) digging into very complex systems, we can also understand these systems when they INTERSECT. Most others start to break down at these points, and lose the thread, and get confused. But we can dig deeper. Just start with any two things that interest you. Pull it out of your ***. Robotics and Kites. Sociology and bookmaking. Sports and cancer research. Crowdsourcing and finance. Religion and economics. Military defense and children's toys. ... I'm not saying not to focus. Only focus on how complex systems interact with each other.

I think this is also peculiar to you.

I'd just say, figure out what fascinates you, then learn how to turn that fascination into something that provides value to others.

#6. Everything is a Case Study. Don't waste a single opportunity. Everything around you can give you further and further insight on what MAY BE happening, what may be possible, and how to improve the world (it's systems, patterns, and interactions) all around you. Everything you do or see can help you in this. So never be afraid of menial work. Gardening, taking on a coffee shop job, opening doors at a hotel--all of this can be an amazing inside look into case studies. NEVER feel that work you do is beneath you. Work at Starbucks? Get the inside view on one of the most engineered and productive employee training systems in the USA. Serve fast food? Get an inside view into advanced supply chain logistics and human behavior patterns. Pull doors at the Ritz? See how customer service scores are affected by even the smallest behaviors, learn to solve socially complex problems under pressure, and see how complex business operations can be made more efficient. The point is, nothing ACTUALLY has to be a waste of your time. This is not true for other cognitive types. I'm not saying don't be strategic. Try and get jobs and work in fields that help you learn and that satisfy you. Just remember that wherever you are, you are in position to understand more of the invisible systems that govern the universe. Think about it like the "matrix" of business. Look at the room you're in. There's a wall that probably has paint on it. How did the wall get there? It was brought by someone who employed laborers. They were paid to assemble it. Each one of them had tools, that were also transported, purchased, assembled, and manufactured. The wall builders got the wall materials which were transported to them from another location where the materials were purchased and assembled. The paint was made by someone. They used powders and dyes. Some were created in research labs thousands of miles away. Some methods of dye were given up, despite their rich colors, due to efficiency or production volume or costs. However, some of the dyes got into the paints which got to paint suppliers which were bought to put on the wall. All the companies had names and logos and branding that were designed with specific fonts that were designed by font designers, sign makers, and etc, etc, etc. And we haven't even begun looking at the lamp on the desk next to you, or the micro components all vibrating with electricity behind the screen you are reading this on. This is just the business matrix, not even the scientific or social matrix at play. Point is, you can trace even the most simple things around you back through the systems that created them all the way back into the ground when they were raw materials, and then back through history as explorers and nations fought wars to secure these resources. And you can also take things forward and understand how sustainable this resource use will be, where these systems will end up, and how to make them work better both today and their through their future evolutions. Fast food job my ass. It's like an internship with God himself if you just keep your INTJ mind even a little bit focused.

This is the one section of yours I quoted in full. This is 100% true for INTJs. We're g-d-mn-d smart, but all the smarts in the world and $5 will only buy ourselves a latte, if we don't actually gather real world data.

INTJs tend to be socially inept because we prefer to avoid social interaction in favor of exploring our own inner universes. But we can easily become skillful at anything we try - being social, how to run a business, how to dance - if we only decide to expose ourselves to how the real world works.

	#7. Yes, you have emotions. One joke/stereotype of INTJs is that we don't have emotions. NOT TRUE. It's just that once we've understood how something works at a deep level, and what it means, we don't really care if some SF comes by and says it must not be right because it doesn't fit with some model they have.

IF you want a good idea of how INTJ emotions work, check out ISFPs.

(INTJ function order - Ni Te Fi Se, ISFP function order - Fi Se Ni Te)

They aren't exactly like us, and their priorities are very different from what we would choose, but the lessons they learn while under 20 are what WE start learning around age 30 and older.

#8. When Things Go Wrong. When times get hard, it's easy to turn to things like heavy drinking or drugs to dampen the thinking in your head. Especially under stress and when you have no time alone all day, and even when exhausted, you may not be able to get your mind to turn off and go to sleep. Just be careful is all. Follow the pattern out in your head to see where it is going, and be brutally honest and objective if you have a problem.

When things go wrong, remember that your brain is an Etch-A-Sketch. Back at my response to #2 and the corollary at #3, my answer is to "not think", to figure out what is wrong with the questions being asked.

W/r to drinking/drugs, Se is our Achilles' Heel. But it is also a strength.

Sometime a drink hits the spot, and lets us center ourselves. Other times, something completely different might be in order, Se-wise.

Let me offer a story.

I dance, but I dislike swing, and I dislike two-step. Moreover, I dislike beginner classes for these, where the new dancers are generally heavy and slow and I spend most of my effort trying to compensate for their lack of skill and balance. I'm not saying this to justify my dislike, but merely to express my dislike and put things in context for the rest of this story.

One day, my car overheated, due to a crack in the coolant container. By the time all was said and done, it was about $1400 to repair everything and take care of other problems that were more obviously incipient once this one was fixed. Fortunately, these days, I usually have enough financial wherewithal to take care of the unexpected, so it was painful without being panic-inducing. But still, it was a bummer of a day.

So I went to dance classes that night. And danced swing. And danced two-step. With beginners.

By the time I was in the second of the two lessons, my mood had lightened considerably. It didn't matter that I didn't like swing, or two-step, or beginner lessons ... I liked dancing. Even this "dregs of dancing" was more than enough for me to put things emotionally in perspective to the point that the $1400 in repairs was just something I had to do, wasn't worth being upset about, and really didn't bother me all that much, though I'd be keeping an eye on the rate at which repairs were needed. I was happy, doing what I was doing, happily dancing with people that had barely learned to dance, dancing dances I really didn't like that much.

And it lightened my mood more than any double bourbon on the rocks ever has.

This goes back to the "emotions" point, and the reason I mentioned ISFPs as an example for INTJs: learn what makes you happy.

Learn what makes you happy even when it sucks. Learn what makes you so happy, that even the sucky-suckiest part of it is more fulfilling than any other way of spending your time. It won't necessarily be productive, or meaningful, or purposeful in any sort of INTJ sense. But it will put you back in your right mind.

Another corollary to this: be open to new experiences, especially of the "Se-ish" variety. You really do not know what you like or you don't like until you try it. So, you have to try it. Sometimes, it's just a new food; sometimes, it's a new friend; sometimes, it's a new way to live your life.

[childofprodigy]

Great Post, OP...(though I've learned most of them through my own contemplation, excellent reminders regardless)

	IF you want a good idea of how INTJ emotions work, check out ISFPs. (INTJ function order - Ni Te Fi Se, ISFP function order - Fi Se Ni Te) They aren't exactly like us, and their priorities are very different from what we would choose, but the lessons they learn while under 20 are what WE start learning around age 30 and older.

Amen to this....I'm currently befriending this ISFP girl (who has a pretty good Ni-Te as well) specifically for the sake of learning more about Fi-Se so that I can (hopefully) solve all my relationship issues (or should I say, "the lack of relationships" issues)...I was surprised at how well I could relate to her on so many things, though of course she's also still completely different from me at the same time...

[BuShinJu]

Great post, I agree with all your points to some degree.

I personally have found mentors in martials arts and sport, though it is turning out the sports mentor has taken a lot from the martial arts too.

I especially like your point about "kingmaker", as I knew this was part of what I do, make others achieve. It can just get tiring when someone who doesn't have the right attributes wants me to help them become, but I can't see it in them, "You don't have the potential, yo".

[Canopus]

Jack - no concerns with your post, as far as it goes. To me, it seems to focus on optimizing our strengths.

Where I struggled and made catastrophic mistakes when I was young, was not understanding and appreciating my core weaknesses. Since there were things I didn't like or do well, I just ignored them and sought to never have to expose those weaknesses and tried to only play to my strengths. Well, when I was forced to use my weaknesses it was really ugly and epic failure. I needed to learn my weaknesses, realized that I had to improve them, learn to value the need for using them so I could use those skills when required, even though I would prefer not to, I could use them successfully. Would have saved me a whole lot of pain and suffering.

[dodaive]

Understand the vast array of difference between people. Many great insights came to me by a practiced long ago. Me and my ex-girlfriend used to spend periods of time at the zoo, staring at mostly chipanzees and banobos, and really try to see if we could somehow get into their state of mind. No mater how great we think we may be as species, there are few basics in life that other primates can teach us. This experience has lead me to believe believing and acting on the idea that we are greater than other primates, or SJs for that matter, will put us in position where we will accomplish less than they will

[SilentRequiem]

I'll just extend on the point without elaborating much. Since you listed primarily strength I'll list some of the perceived weaknesses based on some observations of mine (Might be wrong but oh well)

#1. Stereotypes. Don't stereotype people. I have realized that while INTJs tend to be stereotyped and fight against stereotypes, they often as much tend to draw quick conclusion to "box" people in a stereotype. Every person can be an insight in an opinion, early dismissal of all aspects with stereotyping is a quick way to miss that insight.


#2. Be Strategic. That includes short-term tactical retreats. Assess the situation, if it doesn't work, retreat, if you are wrong realize it early on, do not push through. Don't be overly dependant on the plan, allow your plans and overall strategy to be adaptative not rigid.

#3. Systems. While your system may be elaborate, other systems exist as stated by the OP, the subtle hint is that, no system is better than others, they all are models of reality, they all model reality differently, some maybe more abstract others more specific but generally no system is perfect either, be willing to adapt your system if you see conclusions that do not map to it. Many an INTJ will hold on to his model, eventhough new observations go against it. Models are good, but they need to be extended, a system isn't built once and followed. Reality may surprise you.


#5. If you don't know where to start, look for intersections. and analogies as well. Analogies are always fun.

#6. Everything is a Case Study. That includes yourself, make sure you always introspect and re-assess your own values/goals and systems, sometimes INTJs would not know when to "let go" of an idea becuase they are too pre-occupied with things (they will not even logically consider the possibility). Introspection is key, case studying yourself is also important, noone can convince you of something but yourself. Even if someone says something that makes perfect sense the first reaction is to push it away if it conflicts with the systems designed. Hence why introspection is needed.

#7. Yes, you have emotions. And you are responsible for them, its not other people's fault your emotions are hurt (genearlly), its yours. Don't take your emotions on people.

[Samson86]

this is amazing i am printing it out and reading it until it all gets absorbed into my brain and put this into action.
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thank you for enriching my life XD

[Reizu]

You are my new God for writing this.

As an 18 year old INTJ, this post couldn't have come at a better time for me. I was just very recently thinking how much I wanted a mentor of some sort but most people just didn't understand me well enough. I love you.

Also, for #3, how would one go about this?
And you totally should write a book about this. I'd buy it.

[mieu]

Knowing how and when to allow yourself to be vulnerable will allow you to develop deeper, more meaningful relationships with others.

If you limit yourself to experiences where success and benefit are guaranteed, you might find yourself wondering how much richer your life might have been by taking a few (educated) risks.

The easiest (and surprisingly rewarding) way to do something meaningful with your knowledge is to impart it to others, like this thread. Take your wisdom and mentor someone who needs guidance.

[JackParrish]

	Originally Posted by Reizu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You are my new God for writing this. As an 18 year old INTJ, this post couldn't have come at a better time for me. I was just very recently thinking how much I wanted a mentor of some sort but most people just didn't understand me well enough. I love you. Also, for #3, how would one go about this? And you totally should write a book about this. I'd buy it.

A good question, and one I'm not sure I can fully answer for you. I can only answer how I did it.

Lot's and lots of work. I spent a lot of time reading and researching HOW things worked, and practiced drawing them out with boxes, arrows, etc. I kept about a dozen moleskin notebooks with me over the years, starting in college when I began embracing my "INTJ-ness" instead of hiding from it.

Actually, I just remembered one thing as I was typing. I wish I would have had this when I was younger. There's a book called "The Personal MBA" by Josh Kaufman.


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There is a whole section in this book that teaches about systems in a very simple, but very powerful way. Read this and you will be years and years ahead wherever I was, working through it the hard way.

Now one of the critical things I teach clients how to do understand the systems that underlie everything they do in their organization/business. Not only can it pay well, it is unbelievably useful to others and can make you very valuable wherever you work.

[Hawkx]

Currently, I'm having great difficulty with number 3 causing problems that were briefly stated in 8.

I am completely lost in my life and I hate the feeling of it. I will do anything not to feel like this, but I also know that I can't do much about it.

The event that made me this way was my super detail anal professor. Learning detail after detail it made me really depressed and lose my goal in life. Now I don't know what I want to become in life. You feel as if you have nothing to offer society, that society doesn't need you.

[Scrotus]

I'm 20 and went through my own self discovery process that lead me to that exact same outlook on life. When I look at some of my other INTJ friends IRL, it pains me to watch them "fail" repeatedly. However, because I'm not an older figure of authority, they dismiss my words entirely =P. So I just wanted to say that I support what you're doing, and you're really going to catalyze a lot of peoples' lives and success.

It's funny that your childhood dream was to help other people make money, and now look at what you're doing XD.

For me, my childhood dream was to understand humans and to be a scientist, and now I'm dead set on going into clinical psychology and reworking a lot of the bullcrap they have seemingly produced.

It's just interesting to observe that the childhood dreams of INTJs do seem to manifest when they're older. It parallels with the patterns in some of the neo-hippy metaphysics teachings. It makes me question the authenticity of religion, god, existence, old myths, etc.

Life is fun =P

[Laura C]

Great posts ~
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,
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and
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I'm wondering if this should become a sticky so more can benefit from it.

[JackParrish]

Originally Posted by Hawkx To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Currently, I'm having great difficulty with number 3 causing problems that were briefly stated in 8. I am completely lost in my life and I hate the feeling of it. I will do anything not to feel like this, but I also know that I can't do much about it. The event that made me this way was my super detail anal professor. Learning detail after detail it made me really depressed and lose my goal in life. Now I don't know what I want to become in life. You feel as if you have nothing to offer society, that society doesn't need you.

Just as a personal note, I would encourage you to fight this by finding something--anything--to contribute to.

Getting your ass kicked and getting lost in a bad situation is par for life in general. Just use is as electricity to keep moving toward things that do matter for you.

I can offer from my personal experience that learning to tame the way you are thinking and processing can give you a huge boost. It's not just that get some things sorted out and figure out where to contribute. It's also that it is so fatiguing to fight against your own head. So not only can you get on track, but you can feel like you've found a whole new energy supply at the same time.

Perhaps it doesn't work this way for you. But I think there's a chance it might and that may be a chance worth exploring.

[Azuro]

Thank you for the time and effort that went into making this thread. I think it's a good INTJ resource. I'm already familiar with a lot of it, but I'm having trouble with #5. Is "if you don't know where to start" in reference to #3 and #4? And could you give an example of intersections? It sounds like something that would be really useful if I understood it better.

[Taijibum]

Thanks! I am going to print that out and study it! Maybe give a copy to my niece who I think is an INTJ.

[JackParrish]

	Originally Posted by Azuro To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Thank you for the time and effort that went into making this thread. I think it's a good INTJ resource. I'm already familiar with a lot of it, but I'm having trouble with #5. Is "if you don't know where to start" in reference to #3 and #4? And could you give an example of intersections? It sounds like something that would be really useful if I understood it better.

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been traveling a bit for work and the time gets away. Also I generally type on an iPad in between other obligations so please forgive any major grammar or spelling issues. I'll correct as I have time as I know that bugs folks (myself included).

Yes, it is in regard to numbers 3 and 4 but not limited to it. I've known more than a few INTJs who just "didn't know where to start" in a very broad sense. Their careers. Their own personal research and projects. Their education.

By intersections, I am talking about the places where different systems interconnect.

For example, studying "science" might be very engaging for you. But it's hard to know what to focus on, and for some INTJs it's too broad to just dig in. The amount of information to work through can seem enormous and almost panic-inducing. So we either don't dig in, or just dig in at random following different threads as they pop up onto our radar screen.

Nothing wrong with this per se, and it's a very organic way to learn. But the problem is that it can turn into wandering that never really adds meaningful contribution or intellectual depth.

So one trick is to pick the intersection of two ideas and explore how they are related. I'll provide an example, but the main point is that you can pick ANY two things and practice this to hone the skill.

So let's go back to the science example. Instead of not knowing where to begin, or just picking something at random, you can pick TWO of your interestes (or any two random-ass things just to learn the skill) and begin there.

So let's take science again but consider where it intersects with fiction (perhaps another passion someone has). Now science and the imagination have a long history in our culture in science fiction, so there's a lot to study here. But sciencefiction is actually just an intersection of two systems.

Or you can take science and religion. Let's say you grew up buddhist. What are the intersections of science and buddhism? The lines of thought, the theoretical similarities and differences, and the people?

Or take science and cooking. Where does the rigor of science and the sensual experience of cooking interact? How can one improve the other?

Or take someone who is deeply interested in finance. Finance alone is a little daunting to just sit down and cuddle up with.

But consider the intersection of finance and religion. How do different religions apply and engage the principles of finance? Do they spend more wisely than other types of nonprofits? Or businesses? Do they have more instances of fraud? Or less?

Or the intersection of finance and ballet. Or organic farming and art. Or social work and music. Or medicine and art.

You get the idea.

Every intersection becomes it's own way to go after case studies, and it can be extremely rewarding. It's amazing to study the intersection of complex systems, but to have JUST ENOUGH structure to not get lost or bogged down.

Here are two personal examples for me.

When in college, I also attended photo school on the side. I shot weddings and photojournalism projects to make some money here and there. And really photography was just a way to have some type of a vent for me. I loved the austerity and honesty of black and white, where the subject was the energy source, not some vibrant colors. It takes a hell of a photographer to take a black and white picture of a sunset and make it compelling.

In my college work, I also spent years focusing on genocide law. I was a legal studies (major) and sociology (minor) student so I treated those as an intersection and studied genocide law. Mostly in the balkans and in Rwanda. But I took my photography study and interest and treated that as another major intersection and really dug deep into it. Genocide, law, and photojournalism. And not just the applications of these, but also the thinking behind them. The wise lessons from the more weathered contributors to the field.

It ended up taking me to a photographer named James Natchwey, who specializes as a "war crimes" recorder and has some amazingly powerful but disturbing work, especially around those 1990's genocides I was studying. I found Natchwey's book "Inferno" and it profoundly affected me and energized my study in an unbelievable way. Inferno was a meaningful moment in my life as an INTJ, because it allowed me to connect to some amazing emotion on human causes but in a very "INTJ" kind of way. Genocide is not a crime of passion or drama. It is a systemic thing. It is as accidental as a symphony.

My presentations and research were also more powerful as a result as they reflected the character of rigorous legal study and research but also the powerful visuals and solemn artistic exploration of black and white photography.

I had a religion class and we had to do a presentation. I decided to, again, focus on the intersection at play in my different veins of study. So for this one presentation I had someone, a volunteer, come up and flip through natchwey's "Inferno" book of genocide war crimes while someone else read "The Apostle's Creed" and a few cheery hymns like "Joyful, Joyful."

Afterward, I lead a discussion about what it felt like to hear these proclamations of faith and religious happiness while looking at these horrible crimes and mass grave sites. Not to try and ruin faith, but to instead consider layers of it that are not obvious. It's one thing to have faith in a "high school youth group." But it was another thing entirely for a Jew in the camp at Auschwitz to proclaim the same faith. Or Buddhists as they were hunted and forced to become refugees in Tibet.

That presentation was amazing. It affected me as well, because I got to study the room and the responses as I was engaging and facilitating. And I couldn't be arrogant or callous or people would just shut down in such a potentially charged moment. So I had to remain warm and human but rational and "wise" so they would trust me to lead them through the experience. Virgil guiding dante kind of thing, and I've often used that analogy for dealing with hard things to remember to stay "wise, calm, and human."

The entire class was floored that day and it was a very powerful moment. To this day I occasionally get a FB note or some such from old acquaintances from that class that mention that day.

And such is the power of the INTJ. Many things we cannot do as well as others. Many. But in that realm, we are powerful allies.

The second example is more practical. I do strategy work for companies. I can do general strategy work and enjoy it, but my niche is something I call "sociopolitical strategy". That is, how do the complex social factors of the world we live in affect factors like organizational strategy and competitive advantage? It's an often neglected part of the work--though ungodly important--as most firms either overfocus on finance and the false precision of spreadsheets or they go way too soft and focus on fuzzy "leadership" concepts. One tries to turn people into spreadsheet numbers and the other lacks any logical rigor and just tries to be emotionally appealing.

So my professional contributions have been shaped by the intersection of corporate strategy and sociopolitics. And I've researched to insanely deep levels at this intersection. It's been extremely rewarding, and I love the work I do. I like the daily activities and the research that supports it. And the systems are very complex, too. So there is IMMENSE value for my clients as I dig deeply into them, but then synthesize the information back into usable and simple frameworks.

Long answer I know, and I hope I helped. But I wanted to risk being too thorough on this than not explicit enough.

[Tactical Panda]

	Originally Posted by JackParrish To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	#1. Stereotypes. There are many INTJ stereotypes. DON'T pay attention to them. Most of these are created by those who are NOT INTJs, and it's more of how they try and make sense of how you think.

If we replaced the forum banner with this, it still wouldn't be prominent enough. Perhaps it should be tatooed to every offenders' forehead. Maybe all cross the internet and even beyond. Not that such a thing would eventuate or should seriously eventuate.

This sort of advice is worth reading twice. So if you are a young INTJ please do.

The internet is sometimes worse than useless for understanding INTJs when it wastes your time on fabricated notions - like some boffin's INTJ sterotypes and insincere INTJ descriptions. Even after they spend time studying "INTJs", even the intelligent people of the internet are too often useless or at least misguided in this area. I don't know why, but this more so is in terms of their results rather than effort so you would need to ask them where they went wrong. You won't know yourself by going through some INTJ stereotype, but instead only of something that describes nothing real or worthwhile.

Just be warned about it, even if its common for most or all to indulge in it once in a while in some form.

[MichaelEmouse]

Jack,


Thank you for this thread. I'd like to pick your brain about something. I have a profession that resembles yours where networking is very important so your experience could be very enlightening.

I haven noticed that around certain people, I become more of an ENTJ. Being around people I am comfortable with and get along with gives me energy rather than consume it. My (and I imagine that of many others) problem is in going from being a complete stranger with someone to being friends. I have been trying to understand how that system works and so far, I haven't developed much of a model.

So, how does the system of getting to know someone you've never met to being friends/business associates/dates work? I know it's a very broad question but a potentially very useful one, especially for INTJs.

[jawa]

Thanks for posting this, it's been the highlight of my day.

I know others have asked about #3, but could you possibly elaborate on how you personally arrange your mind? I've changed how I think from a childish way to a more realistic one in years past, but I don't believe I've gotten anywhere near a definite organization of my head.

I'm probably on this path already, but do you think it could have to do with stress and the like? Once you let go of things and just observe them with optimism, does that allow things to easily flow more and eventually lead to a specific organization method? This seems to go along with the intersecting of systems and ideas, which I've also grown to love.

[JYFly]

	Originally Posted by JackParrish To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So one trick is to pick the intersection of two ideas and explore how they are related. I'll provide an example, but the main point is that you can pick ANY two things and practice this to hone the skill.

Great post. I became interested in bioinformatics for precisely this reason.