[ummon]

	Originally Posted by Haumea To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I can tell you are more secure with your looks than your intelligence by your philosophy in choosing partners. That's cool, but we're not all as good looking as you. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That's one way of putting it.

[Rivers]

I think dumb is considered equal to ''low achieveing''. Me myself, a lowly English and education college student with a lowly IQ of 120 would prefer to marry a kindergarden teacher over a doctor. I think a doctor wife would not have enough time and energy to spend on family, she would often be stressed out and bring that stress home. It's simple, I don't care about the finances and the length of her education as long as she is a good mother with enough time to actually raise her kids. I also don't want someone who will challenge me every day, I want a partner, not a rival or a drill sergeant who will call me a pussy every time I show an insecurity.

[fsmo]

	Originally Posted by karenann33 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	These are the key words here. Many driven women have no clue or interest in making a man feel manly.

I have no interest in men who must be made to "feel" manly... You either are or you aren't. Everything else is a lie. You lying to yourself and/or others lying to you to perpetuate the social norm and make you feel like you're a good little upholder of social bullshit.

---------- Post added 05-05-2012 at 04:46 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by MechanicalSun To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Therefore, high achieving woman tend to remain single. I totally agree.

As a high achieving woman in a technical field who hasn't been single much of her adult life I totally disagree.

[noteon]

	Originally Posted by schwartzie To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That this conversation occurs on intjf is creepily par for the course. Social ineptness is disproportionately high here...maybe from the nature of how its modded ... certain kinds of users seem to be drawn here...

No kidding. I was just wondering if this is how I come off to non-INTJs and getting a little skeeved.

[invicta]

Originally Posted by Rivers To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think dumb is considered equal to ''low achieveing''. Me myself, a lowly English and education college student with a lowly IQ of 120 would prefer to marry a kindergarden teacher over a doctor. I think a doctor wife would not have enough time and energy to spend on family, she would often be stressed out and bring that stress home. It's simple, I don't care about the finances and the length of her education as long as she is a good mother with enough time to actually raise her kids. I also don't want someone who will challenge me every day, I want a partner, not a rival or a drill sergeant who will call me a pussy every time I show an insecurity.

So if you had children together with Ms. Right, they are then her children to care for? I noted that you didn't say "our children". Did you plan on being involved with these children yourself?

[curiousgeorge01]

Originally Posted by fsmo To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I have no interest in men who must be made to "feel" manly... You either are or you aren't. Everything else is a lie. You lying to yourself and/or others lying to you to perpetuate the social norm and make you feel like you're a good little upholder of social bullshit. ---------- Post added 05-05-2012 at 04:46 PM ---------- As a high achieving woman in a technical field who hasn't been single much of her adult life I totally disagree.

How do you define making a man feel manly?

How about the women around you in your field? Are a lot of them single?

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by fsmo To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have no interest in men who must be made to "feel" manly... You either are or you aren't. Everything else is a lie. You lying to yourself and/or others lying to you to perpetuate the social norm and make you feel like you're a good little upholder of social bullshit.

I agree with you 100%. But, I want to add the caveat that there are some very insecure people out there, both male and female, who need to feel smarter than their partners in order to feel secure. My partner is the most masculine guy I know, and that all comes from his internal sense of self. However, I don't ever do anything designed to emasculate him. And, I think a lot of women do.

When I say that, I'm not implying that I bow down to him, act like he's smarter than I am, or anything of the sort. I'm quite a bit smarter than he is on some subjects, and he can school my butt on others. But, I make a point of not treating him in demeaning ways. And, I've seen some ostensibly smart women doing some of those demeaning things to their spouses, and I think, "that's not very smart."

He is entitled to be treated with respect, to maintain his dignity, and so am I. And, some women simply don't do that. Some men don't, either. But, I've seen several of my friends publicly disrespect their husbands and napalm their marriages.

---------- Post added 05-09-2012 at 05:11 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How do you define making a man feel manly?

Some women define it as playing a traditional role in the marriage where the man has the perception that he's in charge, and she's subordinate. And, I think that's what fsmo is responding to so forcefully.

I think those kinds of psychological games are bullshit. And, a man who needs me to bow down to him to feel manly isn't very manly.

[Kuroneko]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think those kinds of psychological games are bullshit. And, a man who needs me to bow down to him to feel manly isn't very manly.

Agreed. Some men need to 'feel' superior to their women because they are basically insecure and need an easy win.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Kuroneko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Agreed. Some men need to 'feel' superior to their women because they are basically insecure and need an easy win.

I do not find that an attractive trait, at all. And, because of shifting views of masculinity in our society, there are a lot of guys who have the "swagger" of masculinity, but not the substance. The guys who are relying on machismo, and constantly need their egos propped up because they need to be more manly than their womenfolk, aren't very manly in my eyes.

In fact, as soon as a guy starts talking about gender roles, and the need for men to be the leader in the home, blah blah blah, because having a penis means that god put them in charge, my eyes glaze over and I think..."not in a million freaking years."

[curiousgeorge01]

I really haven't seen a lot of that around men where I am, maybe it's b/c of my profession. But it's possible that men just display these traits at home or when they're alone with a woman. I heard there was this lady whom I work with who's very smart and successful but she was getting beaten at home by her husband who makes less money and had a very strong need to be "the man."

[Kuroneko]

Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not find that an attractive trait, at all. And, because of shifting views of masculinity in our society, there are a lot of guys who have the "swagger" of masculinity, but not the substance. The guys who are relying on machismo, and constantly need their egos propped up because they need to be more manly than their womenfolk, aren't very manly in my eyes. In fact, as soon as a guy starts talking about gender roles, and the need for men to be the leader in the home, blah blah blah, because having a penis means that god put them in charge, my eyes glaze over and I think..."not in a million freaking years."

These are deal breaker, for sure.

[DesertKnight]

This is a really strange concept for me as a logical thinker. Why would I want to commit any kind of long term time to a person who is unable to stimulate me intellectually? I have never liked to surround myself with 'stupid' people male or female. I use the term stupid loosely there because it really is a subjective trait in my opinion; I am using it in the context that the person in question couldn't keep up with me intellectually on a given subject.

That being said I suppose I have met a few people who do this in order to make themselves feel smarter or more secure with themselves, I agree with those who think that's just bullshit mind games.

Where relationships are concerned I have always sought partners who on some level connect with me both emotionally and intellectually. If there is a disproportionate amount of one or the other I will likely loose interest at some point. So I suppose ultimately I want someone I'm on even footing with. I should add that if I was with someone who felt like they had to pretend to be less than they were to be on even terms with me I wouldn't want them to do that. No one should have to be something they aren't for the sake of a relationship.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I really haven't seen a lot of that around men where I am, maybe it's b/c of my profession. But it's possible that men just display these traits at home or when they're alone with a woman. I heard there was this lady whom I work with who's very smart and successful but she was getting beaten at home by her husband who makes less money and had a very strong need to be "the man."

Have you looked around the board recently?

[curiousgeorge01]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Have you looked around the board recently?

I tend not to equate spoken opinion with what a person is unless the opinion/behavior is extreme. I know often people speak a certain way, but the way they are in real life is very different.

For example, that man I spoke of before apparently was very charming in real life.

[Collide]

Originally Posted by pufferphish To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

makes sense, there are more dumb women then dumb men the 'where are all the good men' thread a friend linked me was full of ideas and i think this is the reason women can't find the good men, most men are looking for dumb women. the hedge fund man did not want a driven woman, he wanted a kindergardten teacher. the tech one wantd the hot waitress. the intern said we’re looking for easy, come-and-go relationships with girls who make us feel manly, the photographer wants to look smart, so he dates dumb women, and on and on. do you intj men think the same as the men from the article?

I find this post to be very offensive.

You are judging dumb by your own standards. I disagree that there are more dumb women than men.

Kindergarten teachers can actually be very intelligent. This varies, of course, but the very effective kindergarten teacher must have a deep knowledge of child learning development, child cognitive processes, and learning theory. It is extremely easy to be a teacher without these skills. However, the profession can be very intellectual if taken seriously.

[fsmo]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How do you define making a man feel manly? How about the women around you in your field? Are a lot of them single?

I don't *have* to make my man feel manly. He just is. That's kind of my point. If you have to be treated in a way to make you feel something then you don't actually posses that trait.

There are two other women in my department, both are in long-term relationships and happy.

The problem is the remnants of a repressive paternalistic society, not the independent women that challenge bounds it would place on us.

"Don't try to achieve success, you'll just be a lonely old spinster who doesn't know how to make an man happy."

It's just propaganda, nothing more.

[TheWanderer]

Wait what, kindergarten teachers are considered dumb?

[LadySpock]

Smart men are allowing their children to be taught by dummies - kindergarten teachers!

[Zsych]

There is that other fact... few normal people really like people of much higher intelligence. Intelligent people talk about strange things that you've never cared about, and on top of that, make you feel inadequate.

Plus, they just plain aren't sexy - because sex is all about following your feelings and simply enjoying yourself. Intelligent people forgot they had feelings when they developed those big brains of theirs.

[Kearley65]

I need an intelligent woman that can keep up with my mind because why would I want to be with someone that I find boring. Makes no sense to me. To me there are four types of women:
1) The Beautiful- Those that I find both physically and intellectually attractive
2) The Hot- Those that are physically attractive but sorry you have a pea for a brain.
3) The Friendlies- Those that I find mentally attractive but not physically.
4) The Single forever women- Those that I find not physically and mentally attractive.

The problem Ones are hard to find. I have only found two and let them both slip through my fingers in one way or another.

[Cooper]

Just a thought.....

...does an intelligent woman want you?

[Kearley65]

Well cooper if you are asking me the answer will be, I do not know why. I am really, really smart according to most people I know. I have an unofficial IQ of 144 based off of eight test I took and that was my average and mode score. If an intelligent woman wants an Intelligent man then I am the choice. Damn it, I sound way too arrogant in this post. Sorry people but it is the truth.

[shunch]

I'm in a relationship with a woman with a higher IQ, far better educated than I'll ever be and more erudite than a TV pundit. She likes me because I can do yard work and some auto repair. And I can also balance her checkbook and help her manage her life and investments better than she ever will. It also helps that I can bone her daily, hard, and she seems to like that most.

[SeverusSin]

ENTJs want dumb women.

[Saggita]

	Originally Posted by Cooper To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Just a thought..... ...does an intelligent woman want you?

That is the real question. It almost sounds as if intelligent women are attracted to all men in the earth and all they have to do is choose.

Though my personal experience on intelligent women tells me otherwise. For what I have observed, it's not that they are not wanted because they are smart or bossy pants. It's because they won't settle for any less than what they deserve.

Personal experience though. No generalizations.