[discontinuous]

I see similarities between defibrillation and ECT... It's complexity of the target which comes to question.

Results (and endorsement) don't imply necessity nor appropriateness. What is the list of treatments they exhaust before arriving at ECT? Who says the right proportions of neurotransmitters are available for release? Did they get there simply because nobody had the time to help them deal with their problems? Why not psychedelic therapy? General elevation of any NT might incur novelty leading to subjective "improvement". Hit the TV enough times, the solder will break off. (hint: sometimes it's the first)

If society were more fluid, nobody would find themselves in such predicaments. Was it really necessary for black people to sit in back of the bus? (It was just common recommendation.)

[akairo no kuma]

Psychiatric medications have never done anything good for me. They simply don't work for me. Why not? Because I don't expect them to, I suppose. I typically believe that psych meds work in one of two ways: placebo effect, and flooding your brain with chemicals that make you "feel happy" without addressing the real problem.
There's evidence that dietary factors and exercise level have a lot to do with happiness, as well as that stress levels, sleep schedule, medications, and weather/season can negatively impact emotions if one is not conscious of preventing such. I'm sure someone else has already posted links to this information; if not, I will look through the thread more in-depth tomorrow and post some sources; I'm too damn tired right now.

[stasis]

	Originally Posted by Megalomania To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was half-joking about ECT until you used a poor analogy comparing it to a lobotomy

That's not a poor analogy, which is the point. ECT, lobotomy, and insulin shock belong to a class of smack-the-television somatic treatments that arose at roughly the same time, in response to the same set of problems. You appear to misunderstand that when you fail to treat them with equivalent significance. The problem with lobotomy wasn't ultimately that it did not work, because it did have therapeutic effects if performed correctly. The problem was this fucking culture of false miracle and nonchalance about its use that led to routine treatment for people who were not absolutely without option, by practitioners lacking the fine expertise normally associated with surgery, in scenarios that did not really warrant it to begin with.

	Originally Posted by Megalomania To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Patients can feel better in as little as two or three treatments which is often in a week's duration. Compare that to four to six weeks for anti-depressants

DERP.

[Megalomania]

	Originally Posted by stasis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The problem was this fucking culture of false miracle and nonchalance about its use that led to routine treatment for people who were not absolutely without option, by practitioners lacking the fine expertise normally associated with surgery, in scenarios that did not really warrant it to begin with.

Except it's not routine. There's something like 2,000 people a year in the U.S. who have ECT done. Don't quote me on that; I know you like exactness.

[stasis]

	Originally Posted by Megalomania To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Except it's not routine.

You are
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

[Megalomania]

	Originally Posted by stasis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You are To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .

Surprise...it causes damage. You're running electrical currents through someone's brain. Chemotherapy causes damage too. That's how it works. I never said it was a miracle cure-all. You just seemed to take that from what I initially said about it.

And apparently you missed my post:

	There can be severe side effects but a lot of treatments for terminal illneses have severe side effects too.

There are always arguments about cost vs. benefits for these kinds of treatments.

[discontinuous]

ECT is cheap?


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[stasis]

	Originally Posted by Megalomania To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I never said

I don't think you have any idea what you said. Do tell me more about instant always applicables and the official recommendation statuses of frontal disconnectedness achieved by kinetic means.

[Megalomania]

	Originally Posted by stasis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't think you have any idea what you said.

To be honest, I don't think you do either.

	Do tell me more about instant always applicables...

Why! I do believe that would require something to have been said of them in the first place!

	...and the official recommendation statuses of frontal disconnectedness achieved by kinetic means.

Sorry facts offend you. What you take from them isn't my problem.

[discontinuous]

Fact or opinion? Maybe you need ECT to understand this, nothing missing here, in stasis' posts alone. G2sleep check again tomorrow?

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by akairo no kuma To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Psychiatric medications have never done anything good for me. They simply don't work for me. Why not? Because I don't expect them to, I suppose. I typically believe that psych meds work in one of two ways: placebo effect, and flooding your brain with chemicals that make you "feel happy" without addressing the real problem.

The placebo effect is certainly a factor, esp in cases of mild/moderate depression. But consider this--

If you snort cocaine, you will feel the intended effect within seconds.
If you drink alcohol, you will feel the intended effect within a few minutes at most.
If you swallow a couple of Vicodin, you will feel the intended effect within 30 minutes or so.

But...

If you simply take 20mgs of Prozac, you will almost certainly not feel the intended effect. You may feel some "side effects" such as nausea, agitation, sedation, etc. within an hour, but the intended effect--the "antidepressant" effect will typically not be felt until after 2-6 weeks of chronic (usually daily) use--and often only in the most (previously) depressed users...

[thod]

What do these pills do to normal (not depressed) people? If I took some, would I be really happy? Going down the pub buying drinks for people. Laughing at nothing at all. That sort of thing.

[discontinuous]

	Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What do these pills do to normal (not depressed) people? If I took some, would I be really happy? Going down the pub buying drinks for people. Laughing at nothing at all. That sort of thing.

SSRIs:
Probably serotonin syndrome if not a slight boost.

High dose = feel like shit
Low dose = nothing instant

TCA, MAOI: maybe.

Generally no.

[ppu6502]

Go to a rave if you want to see similar effects to an SSRI on 'normal' individuals.

Perhaps more importantly, visit them the morning after.

[Cliffs Notes: I'm referring to the recreational drug MDMA]

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by ppu6502 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Go to a rave if you want to see similar effects to an SSRI on 'normal' individuals. Perhaps more importantly, visit them the morning after.

Totally dissimilar effects. MDMA acts as a releasing agent of serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine. SSRIs are _selective_ inhibitors of postsynaptic serotonin _reuptake_. They don't significantly cause the brain to dump any neurotransmitters, and they don't significantly effect either norepinephrine or dopamine. As a consequence, they are not "fun".

---------- Post added 05-02-2012 at 09:41 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by thod To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What do these pills do to normal (not depressed) people? If I took some, would I be really happy? Going down the pub buying drinks for people. Laughing at nothing at all. That sort of thing.

They are not "fun" drugs. In studies on non-depressed people, they do tend to make subjects less prickly and more agreeable in social situations, less fearful, etc.

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In studies on non-depressed people, they do tend to make subjects less prickly and more agreeable in social situations, less fearful, etc.

Wow, so there might be a cure for INTJness after all!
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[Thinktress]

They work well for me. (And probably, they make me somewhat more tolerable to those around me). And definitely, certain ad's work better for me than others. Brain chemistry is a very individual thing.

[Arcanist]

People still buy into chem imbalance? What is this, 2003?

[Thinktress]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	People still buy into chem imbalance? What is this, 2003?

Not entirely as the root cause, no. But along with other factors, being low in particular neurotransmitters can make some people more susceptible.

To me, it's similar to getting migraines. There isn't a good and complete explanation for migraines. Certainly, there is no cure. But there ARE various prophylactics and other modalities that work for different people, even though they have different mechanisms of action.

[MacheteGeek]

It has been my experience in 2/2 cases that they cause suicidal tendencies.

[Kadadj]

I think so. I'm currently on Zoloft for depression and anxiety. The lows are somewhat milder, and the lows are farther in between. Though, I'm thinking of replacing the antidepressant with exercise.
Also, I'm sure somebody already has mentioned this, but: Antidepressants work better, the more severe the depression is, (statistically). That takes away from the placebo theory a lot of people have.

[Doggzilla]

Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The placebo effect is certainly a factor, esp in cases of mild/moderate depression. But consider this-- If you snort cocaine, you will feel the intended effect within seconds. If you drink alcohol, you will feel the intended effect within a few minutes at most. If you swallow a couple of Vicodin, you will feel the intended effect within 30 minutes or so. But... If you simply take 20mgs of Prozac, you will almost certainly not feel the intended effect. You may feel some "side effects" such as nausea, agitation, sedation, etc. within an hour, but the intended effect--the "antidepressant" effect will typically not be felt until after 2-6 weeks of chronic (usually daily) use--and often only in the most (previously) depressed users...

I found that they worked instantly, but the dosages are so large as to cause intense side effects. I would bite off a quarter of the smaller dose and that was the most I could stand. The effect was actually very nice, like a warm cuddly feeling, and being far less nervous in public. If I was to take a half of the smallest pill, it was so intense that I felt wired and had constant bowel issues. After a while I could handle a full pill taken in 3-4 pieces throughout the day.

It absolutely helped, but I had to take them continuously. I eventually found that fish oil improved my anxiety and depression greatly, and has almost completely removed it over the last two months. I feel like an entirely different person.

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by Doggzilla To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I eventually found that fish oil improved my anxiety and depression greatly, and has almost completely removed it over the last two months. I feel like an entirely different person.

This is a common experience, especially among those who consume a lousy ratio of omega 6s to omega 3s and a generally inflammatory diet (i.e. those who routinely eat vegetable oils, wheat, corn-fed meat, rarely eat fish, etc.).

Vitamin D is also commonly deficient in the US due to our indoor lifestyle, supplementing with D3 can have similarly positive effects for many...

[Jordano612]

I think anti-depressants definitely work, but it depends on the individual's brain chemistry. Anti-Depressents like SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors) and SNRIs (Serotonin-Norepinephrine Re-uptake Inhibitors) try to balance out the neurotransmitters. These drugs work by blocking the production of Serotonin and/or Norepinephrine in certain regions forcing the brain to start producing more of it after a 2-4 week period. There are also Serotonin Modulators, which work on synthesizing you're Serotonin with more neurons in the brain. Serotonin is the 'happy' brain chemical. Norepinephrine helps with mood and cognitive functioning, and is also said to have an effect on the production of Dopamine in the brain. Dopamine plays the role in experiencing pleasure and definitely helps with cognitive functioning. I tried to keep it as simple as possible, but there is a lot more scientific evidence than that. I take a Serotonin Modulator, which has helped me quite a bit. So yes, I say that anti-depressants definitely work.

[Exelone]

There is nothing hemp oil can't fix.