[BlSH0P]

From what I've seen from people on this forum, and on the chat, and with myself as an example, I've started to notice the constant "Flight" behavior of INTJ's.

I know that 'Fight or Flight' mode is a biological tendency for situations of danger, but i think the human mind works the same way in social situations.

Anytime we are pressed or presented with a social situation we follow the same behavioral situations that an animal would follow if faced with a predator. We get afraid, and do anything we can to get out of the situation. We've been classically conditioned to hate social situations, and we go into flight mode, where we avoid everything, and almost freeze up, in fear, like an animal does. Instead of weighing out the pros and cons of a situation, our minds twist the cons and make them seem deathly, and it keeps us from doing anything. Even the slightest inconveniences, like, "they wont like me if i do this", or "they will judge me", keep us from doing stuff. We basically live our lives in flight mode, and its crippling.

So my solution, was to go into FIGHT MODE. Instead of refraining from doing things based on the fact that there would be consequences, I chose to do them and just deal with the consequences.

Fight Mode is different from just ignoring the consequences and doing whatever. Instead, you analyze the situation, like you normally would as an INTJ, and you just decide (as long as they dont harm your safety or kill you or whatever) to deal with the consequences. Because it's meaningful to deal with them.

In Fight Mode, rather than reacting to a situation by shying away and choosing to refrain from action, you react by attacking the situation, fighting it. FIGHT MODE! that's what its all about. And it's hard to explain, but it works.

I was always awkward around this group of kids in highschool, totally introverted, and almost to a point where it was annoying. I was in constant flight mode. And i didnt try to change anything, i just said, "ill find a new group", i just accepted the shitty social situation i was in. then on my way home, after they had talking about chipotle, i said to myself, "i should see if they all want to get some", but i almost laughed at myself for even considering it. I never do stuff like that. I immediately went into flight mode and pulled out the excuses, "they will think im weird for asking", "im already almost home its to late", "i dont want to spend the money", and "it will just be awkward". But then something changed in me. Like a spark, i just told myself, "who cares? it doesnt have to be awkward, and i dont care if it is, im doing it". I went into fight mode. I understood they might judge me, and it might be awkward, but didnt let them keep me from asking them. I starting laughing, saying to myself, "Thats why i havent been doing anything, really?". I started to realize how petty my excuses were, how dumb i sounded. So i went into fight mode, texted them , and we all got chipotle.

And it wasnt awkward, it was fun. Fight mode worked. I went from totally awkward before to completely awesome.

It took me 18 years to finally realize this. It took me that long to realize that i wasnt being "rational" when i kept telling myself "it's all pointless". I was just making lame excuses. I was living life in constant Flight Mode.

So i figured id share with you guys, my revelation.

From now on I'm in FIGHT MODE.

[jawa]

Interesting theory and I think I'm in partial agreement. But couldn't you consider it fight instead of flight to avoid situations not out of fear, but out of disinterest?

Such as the case with you asking some people to get food with you, couldn't it be fighting to ignore them? Of course how you rationalized it to yourself was a clear flight response initially, but you could rationalize it in a fighting way.

[BlSH0P]

yeah i guess i could. but a lot of times we pass up things that we could find interesting because we stick to our static routine. Or, we just are afraid of the social anxiety and awkwardness they bring.

i would say, in order to validate my rationalization, fight mode is applied when you fight fear of something. So if you werent afraid of the social situation, and genuinely disinterested, then you wouldnt need fight mode. But a lot of times, for me at least, its because im afraid, and i think it will just be awkward. So for those situaitons, i should have used Fight Mode

[jawa]

Makes sense. Would you say the flight response in your examples is purely a case of social anxiety or something similar? If so, it's undoubtedly rooted in a lack of experience in such social situations, not so much a fear in them. With many new things, at least for me, I feel slight awkwardness, with socializing in different ways not being an exception.

But once you get over the initial flight response and start internally and intentionally fighting, then are you put on the path to furthering socializing (as if to become a master of it), or would this be a reasonable time to stop entirely (out of a lack of interest, with no more fear associated with it)?

[BlSH0P]

well, you would keep socializing at a level you want to, because thats the point of it. Rather than perfecting the art of socializing, or learning techniques you can just keep repeating, you socialize genuinely. You do it because you want to. If you are faced with lack of interest, then there would be no reason to socialize, but even introverted people can gain something from socializing, as long as its with the right people.

So after getting over the flight response, the next step is to just, socialize whenever you want to, and not be afraid to try situations you previously would not have. Reap and gain from a situation, rather than letting previous fears ruin situations for you

[Paji eh Wong]

First, congrats on dealing with your social issues.

Second, I think you need to look more closely into fight/flight. Both responses are similar in that they are unthinking, non-analytical, and emotional. Unless you had a serious social phobia, you probably weren't engaging in flight, just unconsciously avoiding difficult situations.

I think what you are doing now is to choose new behaviour in the old social situations.

[BlSH0P]

i made sure to state its not actual fight/flight (the actual psychological response), i was just using those as an example of how i behave in social situations, and it made a pretty analogy.

[True Rune]

Keep fighting and getting that social success down. We need some good INTJ examples out there. My socialization has gotten much better since getting my job. I tend to immerse/excuse myself purely on whim though.

[wizardblues]

I suppose I am constantly in "flight" mode... This sort of relates to the thread I started about INTJ's and Avoidant Personality Disorder possibly being related.

Today in my psychology class I calculated how many points I would lose off my grade if I skipped out of a short presentation in front of class. I was the only one out of the class that opted out. The teacher asked me twice if I was sure I didn't want to give the presentation (which was awkward) but I had already decided that losing 15 points out of a 60 point project was worth not standing in front of the class.

Maybe it's because the last two presentations I was in I got severe anxiety and felt extremely uncomfortable. Probably. Which the flight mode for this situation is just to avoid it, whereas if I decided to enter fight mode I would have said fuck it and done the presentation.

[squarebox]

I strongly believe the flight part is mainly due to INTJ reasoning that if there's nothing to gain, it's pointless to get involved.

[Wolfe]

I like the idea but I know for myself it takes a lot more practice and immersion in those situations to not be awkward and uncomfortable. I'm just not sure if it's worth the time and energy. I'm glad the method worked for you though.

[CrudeHypothesis]

	Originally Posted by squarebox To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I strongly believe the flight part is mainly due to INTJ reasoning that if there's nothing to gain, it's pointless to get involved.

Or even a waste of effort for an experience you've already had with no tangible gain.

[Haumea]

I think there's a frequent occurence of Avoidant Personality Disorder among INTJs, but I don't think it's necessarily an intrinsic feature of the type.

	Even the slightest inconveniences, like, "they wont like me if i do this", or "they will judge me", keep us from doing stuff.

Typical symptoms of AVP.

Or "I'm not tall enough, or not muscular enough, or not [insert perceived inadequacy here] enough."

Sound familiar?

It's helpful, as a start, to open yourself up to people you can trust and who can help you be objective about these personal issues. Because otherwise you're at the mercy of a very confining perspective.

[BlSH0P]

I've always felt similar to some of you, that there really is no point in doing anything, and that its not worth the effort. But a lot of times thats not the case, we just are conditioned to think that way, its almost a self-defense mechanism, so that we dont have to deal with those situations. And it makes sense, 99.9 % of the time for me social situations end in me being depressed about myself. But in fight mode i realize there is something to gain, in many cases. When a social situation isnt haunted by anxiety, it's actually enjoyable. So in fight mode, you reap social situation for your benefit, and to hell with everything else.

[Warpriest]

Interesting... Never looked at flight mode before. I have always been on the fight mode since a kid. I never liked to flee from anything ever. I still don't. I face my fears because I hate feeling weak or lesser of what I feel I am. A strong person.

I force myself to be social. I force myself to be kind. I force myself to be polite. I refuse to be shut in because of fear of socializing. I am too damn pig headed to back down from my fears of being understood and accepted. I am though filled with too much hate though...need a bit of help on that.

[Hariar]

I suppose there is some truth in it for me. Though I the reason I avoid most social situations is because I don't get much from socialisation. Been there, done that; so to speak. Once you've made contact with someone, it can be hard to break it off with reasonable behaviour. As a funny example, I was asking a professor/lecturer during the break a yes/no question ("are the answers to the exercises of the PDF file available somewhere?"). That cost me at least 10 minutes; and I even made a couple of attempts to break off the conversation, but no. (the short answer to my question was "no").

And if you can expect to meet someone again frequently, you are now suddenly expected to say "hi" or otherwise great them and blablabla. Inconveniences all the way. I usually don't get that interested in the people that I talk to, and the subjects they talk about generally do not interest me.

[Paul Siraisi]

I was never in flight mode. I was born in bulletproof mode. They I went to Africa and learned fight mode. Now I'm a nightmare for all.

[Thinktress]

I'm in constant fight mode, and listen - I wish I could be a little more chill and zen. People constantly use that outdated terminology "Type A" when describing me. It's really not that easy to just "chill." I'm not even sure I know what it means.

---------- Post added 05-08-2012 at 09:37 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by squarebox To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I strongly believe the flight part is mainly due to INTJ reasoning that if there's nothing to gain, it's pointless to get involved.

How is it that I'm an INTJ and both a pragmatist and an idealist? It's exhausting, let me tell you.

[curiousgeorge01]

Yes I would say I was on Flight mode most of my life. When I got out of college, the only job I could get was one dealing with people on a daily basis so it's pretty normal for me now. I wouldn't say I fought as more like I adapted to my situation b/c hey, I have to live and make money somehow.

For most social situations outside of work though, I still close myself off. At parties and social functions, I usually stand on the side and keep to myself. A lot of co workers find this odd when compared to my office persona.

[koakuma]

Originally Posted by BlSH0P To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Anytime we are pressed or presented with a social situation we follow the same behavioral situations that an animal would follow if faced with a predator. We get afraid, and do anything we can to get out of the situation. We've been classically conditioned to hate social situations, and we go into flight mode, where we avoid everything, and almost freeze up, in fear, like an animal does. Instead of weighing out the pros and cons of a situation, our minds twist the cons and make them seem deathly, and it keeps us from doing anything. Even the slightest inconveniences, like, "they wont like me if i do this", or "they will judge me", keep us from doing stuff. We basically live our lives in flight mode, and its crippling.

This just described what I was thinking two days ago. I was at my limit at not giving a monkey about everything and I thought "maybe I can get sick before the meeting so I don't have to go?". Indeed very stupid thoughts. There's to much duty in me to run from things. "If I do this now, I will not have to deal with this later" = freee time!

[puddlejumper]

Originally Posted by jawa To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Interesting theory and I think I'm in partial agreement. But couldn't you consider it fight instead of flight to avoid situations not out of fear, but out of disinterest? Such as the case with you asking some people to get food with you, couldn't it be fighting to ignore them? Of course how you rationalized it to yourself was a clear flight response initially, but you could rationalize it in a fighting way.

I'd have to agree with this. I can relate to the rational thought process, but when I have analyzed my thought process, it's always come down to my lack of interest. (Then that has become another train of thought to ponder in itself).

I think that INT's are generally more choosy with the company they keep. I know for myself, it's always been more important to interact with those who share My interests, and not the other way round. To me, that's always been more important.

[Async]

I conserve mental energy by engaging in non-engaging tactic.

[Kadadj]

I did something similar when I was about 15. I was tired of being socially retarded and awkward as fuck, so I forced myself to socialize. Now I'm back to being awkward again though, I have no idea what happened.

[clumsywordsmith]

Some INTJs, maybe. I think what you describe could very well be a natural byproduct/symptom of extreme introversion, to the point of social shyness/isolation. I.e., introversion 'gone wrong'. But INTJ is a psychological type, not a definitive description of a person. What you describe shows an aversion -- fear, almost -- to social interaction. This fear is neither limited to the INTJ nor is it descriptive of all persons of the type.

It might be helpful to not think so much in terms of 'we' in regards to type; granted, there are bound to be a vast range of similarities between persons of the same type, but type only describes the very basic and underlying manner in which we perceive, process and project our surroundings, selves and others. It does not describe the myriad subtleties in every step between.

It is similar to car classifications. Not even specific to engine type, tire size or model number. Simply saying "This person is a sedan", "This person is a pickup", "This person is an SUV". And so forth.

[Jade333]

I actually went through this thought process when I was about 14. I do tend to go back and forth between the two. It's been useful for me though and definitely helped with social aspects. Many people who know me would not label me as anti-social, but I do hate socializing at times. Well, many times actually, but we need to learn to adapt at some point.