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INTJs and professional help. None
Old 05-08-2012, 09:44 PM   #1
Zodd
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Can't believe no one has made a thread about this, I think.

Do you have trouble with proffessional help? That they can't understand what your thoughts are, your feelings, your goals, your principles etc. I often felt my blood boiling talking too mental nurses and therapists. My psychiatrists not so much enraging, because she is really trying but we really have a communication barrier. There was a psychologist who I could talk quite well with.

So answer and please state what kind of proffessional you are talking about.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:52 PM   #2
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I'm very picky (imagine that) about professional help. If I don't feel like we gee and haw very well then I find someone else. I look around online and read a lot of reviews before choosing potential physicians, shrinks, etc.

I had the GREATEST psychiatrist for about seven years and I lost her when I moved. The guy I see now is just a med check guy, basically.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:36 PM   #3
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My first few therapists were jackasses, but I eventually found one that I liked. I stayed with her for about a year, and then stopped taking therapy. The next time I needed it, I tried to get back with her, but her schedule was full so she gave me a few other names that she thought would be good for me. Her judgement was fine, and I haven't had any problems since.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:43 PM   #4
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I suppose it's hit and miss. When I was a kid I liked my therapist but I was just a kid then. I got another therapist in high school and I liked the guy as a person, but didn't think he understood me much at all. The therapist after him only saw me a few times and preferred to give me antidepressants instead of continue seeing me. After this one I went back to my high school therapist and continued to like him, but then I started to get the distinct impression that he wasn't qualified to be "above" me as a doctor. It's been four years since I stopped seeing him and even though I have some government vouchers for three sessions free, I doubt I will see a therapist again anytime soon.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:50 PM   #5
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I've always seen therapy (by someone skilled and qualified) as a good idea for anyone. If I had someone local who was helpful and my insurance covered it, I'd totally go. It's nice to have an unrelated third party to help point out fallacies in my thinking, etc. Sometimes, it's so easy for us to read other people but its more difficult to pick up everything closer to home.

And particularly socially, even if I do know what the problem is, I don't always know how to solve it, or even if I should. It's nice to have professional input from someone who's helped hundreds of other people problem solve.
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:16 AM   #6
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They are hit and miss. I think many of them have holes in their experience when it comes to reserved introverted thinking type people. They see us and they think, "Ah ha! a psychopath!" Then you say, 'A good psychopath would fake the emotion. That aint me doc.' Then they settle down and earn their pay.
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:58 AM   #7
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If you don't get along with your therapist you should find a new one. One of the biggest predictors of how successful therapy is going to be is the client-therapist relationship. If you're not feeling it, find a new one.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:22 AM   #8
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90% of "professionals" who know that they're doing, have NFI what they're doing. As soon as they start to add a few factoids and some background I am miles ahead of them. It's fun to watch their paradigm shift as they see I'm not the usual nincompoop. Often I'll get an apology afterwards, or failing that just get shown the door!
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:57 AM   #9
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I saw two therapists who didn't get me at all. (Well, one therapist and a social worker who worked at my university.) It was a waste of time. They both thought that CBT was the greatest thing ever but, you know, I can do CBT at home or on the bus or whatever. I didn't need help analyzing/reprogramming my surface thoughts.

Then I found a therapist who could see into my soul. I thought, now here is someone who knows what the fuck they are doing. Finally! I still had to think about it for about a month because it was expensive and I had/have a lot of issues with money. (Emotional issues, financially I was doing fine.) In the end I went back, because I knew it was my best chance.

So I recommend therapy, but with some reservations. Finding a good therapist is like finding a good partner. You have to weed through lots of rejects, but good ones are out there.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:04 AM   #10
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I have gone to gone to a couple psychologist voluntarily, even one psychiatrist.
That leaving out my girlfriends that were psychologists/student students lol.
Never had issues, the guys just sent me back home, fortunately.

One motto I have is: If you want to be helped, help!. With this I mean, one has to cooperate in order to get benefit from any kind of support (medical/psychological/financial/legal etc.).
For example: I feel physically sick, go to the physician. I can't just go and let him "do his job", I have to gather information he might need(i.e what hurts, since when, where, how) in order to get max benefit.
If I was a doctor and my patient told me " i don't know what I have/when/how it feels", or doesn't at least put an effort to cooperate I would just tell them very politely to "gtfo".
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:59 AM   #11
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  Originally Posted by Zodd
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Can't believe no one has made a thread about this, I think.

Do you have trouble with proffessional help? That they can't understand what your thoughts are, your feelings, your goals, your principles etc. I often felt my blood boiling talking too mental nurses and therapists. My psychiatrists not so much enraging, because she is really trying but we really have a communication barrier. There was a psychologist who I could talk quite well with.

So answer and please state what kind of proffessional you are talking about.

Could be the model they work from or world view they are seeing your problems through does not match with how you see your problems. The medical model and the psychological model can be very different in terms of what they see as both the causes of and solutions to mental and emotional distress. Both can have their role however if one you do not agree with what the Dr sees as the cause and best treatment therefore, or she does not agree with your view of the cause / best treatment therefore, it could be harder to feel heard, listened to, or understood when communicating together. In brief you are not on the same page regarding these things. It is important to find someone who you feel gets where you are coming from and offers solutions you believe and can see will work for the situation you are in. Until that is right, it will be a difficult process for you to get satisfaction and results with them. Good luck.

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Old 05-09-2012, 09:15 AM   #12
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  Originally Posted by Zodd
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Can't believe no one has made a thread about this, I think.

Do you have trouble with proffessional help? That they can't understand what your thoughts are, your feelings, your goals, your principles etc. I often felt my blood boiling talking too mental nurses and therapists. My psychiatrists not so much enraging, because she is really trying but we really have a communication barrier. There was a psychologist who I could talk quite well with.

So answer and please state what kind of proffessional you are talking about.

Rather negative or neutral experience, basically they fail to establish a connection with me so I would feel safe etc. to talk to them and they just expect me to talk my stuff out like some loud mouth to a completely unknown person...

I think a good one can be a great help but the same can do a good friend to you.
Well if you need a 3rd view then sure they might be helpful but solving problems, they are not so good at or will advice you meds for depression or some other crap.

Usually did not got anything new to me out of the psychologist that I already didn't know or knew about. And getting them to understand all the complexity of what I'm talking about is not always easy.

I don't prefer them, unless somebody would recommend.
A good friend is much better. Or somebody else who cares about you.

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Old 05-09-2012, 09:38 AM   #13
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Oh dear lord.

I haven't ever had "professional" help for anything, but this makes me think of my high school Psychology teacher. He was an ESFJ, first of all, so already we had issues. We got in a huge fight at one point because he perceived me to be rude, well I guess I was, but only because he fake-yells at people all the time and it was impossible for me to tell, especially because what I was asking about shouldn't have been a big issue. He told me to see him after school, bla bla bla then he ended up yelling at me for not answering him and whenever I opened my mouth to speak he would immediately cut me off.

Anyway, the RELEVANT part is that, after he threatened to drop me from his class right before the AP exams if I stayed mad at him, we "made up." Just a couple of months ago I went back and gave out free donuts to a few of my old teachers and since we both happened to come from divorce families, he thought he would give me "advice" about the issues I was having with my father. "Now Reizu, being mad at him won't solve anything. It'll just drain YOUR energy, but it won't have any effect on him. If you let him get to you, he wins." "But I'm not mad. He's dead to me, there's a difference." And that conversation just kept going around in circles, and he kept agreeing with what I said, even though he kept making points that didn't seem relevant to me. To this day, I still have no idea where that conversation was going.
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:39 PM   #14
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So should we strive for making a mental health care program just for INTJs? Proffessional help just wants too help the most people, they put more effort in helping the sheep that is 90% of the population than the non-sheeple that are 10%. So therefore it might be better too talk too other people from that 10% non-sheeple.
So most proffessionals know what to do how too treat the sheeple. I wonder if they can adjust enought too INTJ's and if they have enough experience and background in it. Guess it sucks not being part of the biggest "group" of society.


There are pretty intelligent people here, and more likeminded, and though they might be biased they are biased in different ways than proffessionals. So I see the point in seeking help from a forum.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:12 PM   #15
Paji eh Wong
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  Originally Posted by Zodd
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So should we strive for making a mental health care program just for INTJs? Proffessional help just wants too help the most people, they put more effort in helping the sheep that is 90% of the population than the non-sheeple that are 10%. So therefore it might be better too talk too other people from that 10% non-sheeple.
So most proffessionals know what to do how too treat the sheeple. I wonder if they can adjust enought too INTJ's and if they have enough experience and background in it. Guess it sucks not being part of the biggest "group" of society.


There are pretty intelligent people here, and more likeminded, and though they might be biased they are biased in different ways than proffessionals. So I see the point in seeking help from a forum.

I think you are shooting yourself in the foot. If you believe that therapy methods that work for most people won't work for you, then they won't work for you.

I don't know, because I'm not an expert, but I think if therapy is going to work, you will probably have to take a majority of responsibility for the process.

Just saying.

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Old 05-09-2012, 11:19 PM   #16
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I've only seen one after I freaked out at a funeral. It was good, they were an encouraging person. I really can't judge, but it was a good experience because I got the help I needed at the time.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:34 PM   #17
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Never had to go to a therapist for personal help; however, I was asked to talk to one as a teenager because my mom told him I was driving her crazy... never the less I lie to that men like there was no tomorrow and at the time hated the idea of being interview by someone about my life.

Now, I do not see a need to see anyone either. I'm fine just the way I am and if someone says otherwise to hell with them. I have achieve and undertaken a lot of shit and I'm still functioning properly. I'm my own psychologist.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:15 AM   #18
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  Originally Posted by Paji eh Wong
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I think you are shooting yourself in the foot. If you believe that therapy methods that work for most people won't work for you, then they won't work for you.

I don't know, because I'm not an expert, but I think if therapy is going to work, you will probably have to take a majority of responsibility for the process.

Just saying.

No, regular things don't do anything good for me.

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Old 05-10-2012, 10:09 AM   #19
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I used to see a therapist when I was struggling with depression. It started quite well, she was patient with my introversion, she let me take my time speaking about my feelings (which is very difficult to me, especially with strangers). I told her what's wrong, that I've just moved all the way across the country, leaving pretty much everyone I knew behind, changing my uni and getting married... She smiled and nodded, seemingly understanding. Then she asked me how's my relationship with mother.

Seriously? I mean, seriously?! Lady, I just told you what's wrong. Did you even listen, before throwing that freudian shit at me? I'm very introspective, I know what's the issue here, I just needed some good advice, for pity's sake. And psychoanalysis is an outdated pseudoscience. Too bad it's still popular in my country.

I didn't see a psychologist ever since.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:45 AM   #20
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haha, yeah, funny what they come up with saying, trying too make you think they are not dumbasses.
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:13 PM   #21
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I've found that the problem with getting help is often not with the professional specifically but with me. I am so used to putting on the act of human connection that unless it is in a very controlled medium (such as this here internet where I can edit whatever I say and my anonymity is assured lest I give it up myself) I have a hard time actually talking about the real me.

I find myself saying and doing the actions that I believe are expected for the topic of conversation; just as I do with any normal personal interaction. In this regard I wonder if I am a sociopath, I don't think I am as I do have feelings and emotions, I just despise having someone pick over them; even if those emotions are toxic to me and the person I'm talking to is qualified (on some level) to handle it.

That really isn't the professionals fault, but mine; and since I've aged a bit since the last time I saw one I have become better at letting the real me out, still scares the hell outta them though
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:33 PM   #22
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  Originally Posted by Irian
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[....] Then she asked me how's my relationship with mother.

No, that's an incredibly important thing for her to discover about you. It sets the whole basis for how you see your future relationships, and you have done yourself a large disservice by preventing her from proceeding with it.

Sorry to be blunt, but its true. Read about it here.


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Old 05-10-2012, 05:22 PM   #23
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I too thought the mother/childhood questions were irrelevant waste-of-time nonsense. I WAS WRONG. I'm very happy I decided in advance to commit to a certain number of sessions and to just go with it, no matter which direction I was led. I was massively skeptical about being told that my mother was an extremely flawed person, but I took it seriously and looked into it using the keywords my therapist dropped in our sessions. She was right.

Now I know that she knew what I was going to say before even asking about it. The signs are extremely obvious. I bought a book that outlines strategies for dealing with patients like me. It's a very distinct pattern. I can see it now too, in other people. Among other things.

  Originally Posted by Paji eh Wong
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I think you are shooting yourself in the foot. If you believe that therapy methods that work for most people won't work for you, then they won't work for you.

Maybe. CBT is currently very very popular but as I see it the goal of CBT tends to be functionality and not self-actualization or even happiness. I did the exercises at home by myself and it did make me more functional... most of the time. I could achieve at work. It didn't even come close to touching the root of my issues though, so I still had periods of depression and was generally dissatisfied with life even when I wasn't technically depressed. Attempts at relationships were uniformly disastrous.

 
I don't know, because I'm not an expert, but I think if therapy is going to work, you will probably have to take a majority of responsibility for the process.

Yes, even if the therapist is amazing, you are still going to have to do a lot of work and take responsibility for your own recovery. But if the therapist isn't a good fit, it doesn't matter how much responsibility you take or how hard you work.

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Old 05-10-2012, 07:10 PM   #24
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  Originally Posted by FruitLoop
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No, that's an incredibly important thing for her to discover about you. It sets the whole basis for how you see your future relationships, and you have done yourself a large disservice by preventing her from proceeding with it.

Sorry to be blunt, but its true. Read about it here.


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Sounds like veiled psychoanalysis to me.

  Originally Posted by Wikipedia Imago article
We have a composite image of all the positive and negative traits of our primary caretakers deep in our unconscious mind. This is called the Imago. It is like a blueprint of the one we need to marry someday.

Yeah, that's freudism 2.0, a brand new edition. Additionaly this therapy is based on an assumption that romantic love is and should be a base of every relationship - which isn't true for everyone and definitely isn't true for me. I'm still calling b/s. Especially since my relationship with mother is really good, actually, and the issue was being suddenly thrown out of my usual environement into a totally new social and professional role. Which I told the psychologist about. Luckily I managed to deal with the problem on my own, though it took me some serious effort.

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Old 05-10-2012, 08:40 PM   #25
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  Originally Posted by Irian
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Sounds like veiled psychoanalysis to me.

Yeah, that's freudism 2.0, a brand new edition....

Additionaly this therapy is based on an assumption that romantic love is and should be a base of every relationship - which isn't true for everyone and definitely isn't true for me....

I'm still calling b/s. Especially since my relationship with mother is really good, actually, and the issue was being suddenly thrown out of my usual environement into a totally new social and professional role. Which I told the psychologist about. Luckily I managed to deal with the problem on my own, though it took me some serious effort.

It doesn't sound to me like the problem is dealt to at all. What I'm seeing is your activated Extraverted Sensing.

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