[Warpriest]

Originally Posted by Selene To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Are all INTJs psychologically predisposed towards unhappiness? I don’t understand. Your post betrays a collected mind too logical to make such a presumptuous claim. Or am I mistaken in any way? IMO these are volatile and sensitive emotional responses to the state of affairs around you. Negative feelings are sometimes as mild as being vague and unsettling, other times severe and extremely debilitating. On good days you are retrospective, find meaning in being altruistic, and appreciate the intimacy observed in kids and their families because moods are contagious. You, like any other human is susceptible to positive influence. By focusing on pleasant socialization among and with strangers, as opposed to the rotten, you’re distracted, but this is only a temporary solution. What keeps you from participating actively as a social animal? Why are you content with being the passive observer?

Thank you for taking the time and reading my thoughts of babble. I am not as intellectual as most in here. I am just a cave man who learned he is not F'd up as he thought, but an INTJ brained person. It explains so much, and it explains why the misunderstanding my way of thinking has caused rifts in friendships and family. They often say they don't understand me or why do I do X or why do I do Z.... being questioned so much made me think I was broken for so long....I am not broken I am just different is what I discovered..years too late.

I was just throwing that out there cause "Hope" can make one endure a lot.

As for my own negative volatile feelings and such and explaining in more detailed ways what I may have been experiencing...it helps having your input. Thank you for giving me your feedback.

	What keeps you from participating actively as a social animal? Why are you content with being the passive observer?

I am reaching out in my Martial Arts school. I am making new acquaintances now. I am not content with being passive observer really. I am very guarded with other people. I don't give trust, it is earned for me. So people have a hard time with me at times. I am also brutally honest which has caused me to end friendships. This also brings up a point about why I dislike people mostly. They say they want honesty , but when you give it. They get all bent over it. Also , I would have to go over my history which is too much. The amount of betrayal and loss with friendships and family have taken there toll. I didn't exactly live a stellar child hood. I was a foolish kid that spent too much time on the wrong side of the tracks. Bad Boy gone good so to speak. I really do want to socialize because life is too short. I am 36 for god sakes I am elderly =p. I don't have time to BS around or be a wimp about it. Just well, I struggle with my hate towards people to. It can be overwhelming. Still I am willing to take risk , if that means i break this cycle I am in.

[ENIT]

	Originally Posted by mozartus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . Have you tried cognitive therapy for your depression? Try again? Make it a new habit rather than letting your negative thoughts be the status quo? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I give you meta-analyses of clinical trials and you give me a WebMD article on serotonin.

Oh, and cognitive therapy doesn't work particularly well because I don't have negative thought patterns about myself, which is, like, the bedrock of that shit.

[Subgenius]

	Originally Posted by ENIT To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I feel the thousands of little annoyances of life unalloyed by any offsetting good. I'm required to expend effort (which is increasingly difficult to muster) to do things I don't care about except in order to avoid a much worse situation.

So what exactly is psychological(or the point of) about this thread if you aren't going to go to a doctor or take the advice of the people here? Are you giving a show for research purposes to the people of INTJf? Are you here to just answer questions about your condition? Is this just kind of snuff chat? Is this a hypothetical attempt at humour? It seems to be. Maybe you should petition this to be in blog section. You kind of seem to be inventing new shit to be morose about or to get diagnosed for as this thread progresses. If it turns into a blog maybe you could write it for a few years.


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[ENIT]

Originally Posted by Subgenius To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

So what exactly is psychological(or the point of) about this thread if you aren't going to go to a doctor or take the advice of the people here? Are you giving a show for research purposes to the people of INTJf? Are you here to just answer questions about your condition? Is this just kind of snuff chat? Is this a hypothetical attempt at humour? It seems to be. Maybe you should petition this to be in blog section. You kind of seem to be inventing new shit to be morose about or to get diagnosed for as this thread progresses. If it turns into a blog maybe you could write it for a few years. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm not exactly sure what you want from me.

[Selene]

	Originally Posted by ENIT To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The personal experiences I'm talking about are the many things I've done in attempts to not want to gank myself. Exercise, work, school, accomplishment, art, music, medicine, lots of stuff. I tend to get pretty good at the thing I put effort into and end up no happier for it.

You supported your logical conclusions about suicide by providing facts about your past and present emotional health:

1. Dissatisfaction with life in #4.
2. External validation and recognition have no effect on the level of satisfaction you feel in #8.
3. A history of nervous breakdown in school without going further as to what happened in #8.

Can you start with 3? What caused the breakdown?

[Subgenius]

	Originally Posted by mieu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If I knew what it was like to be truly suicidal, I'd be dead, wouldn't I?

Not necessarily

[Zombicide]

ENIT, please don't do it, please, you should be more considerate of those you'll leave behind i.e. try taking as many of those you'd leave behind with you when you do decide to off yourself, don't just kill yourself, make it fun, go out with a bang so that it'll be as worthwhile as possible, that's how objectivists off themselves. Whenever people tell me to kill myself, it makes me a little bit more genocidal (of the
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), that's the spirit you need to have, friend. Good luck.

[ENIT]

	Originally Posted by Selene To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You supported your logical conclusions about suicide by providing facts about your past and present emotional health: Dissatisfaction with life in #4. External validation and recognition have no effect on the level of satisfaction you feel in #8. A history of nervous breakdown in school without going further as to what happened in #8. Can you start with 3? What caused the breakdown?

Nothing in particular. Just crept up on me one day.

[mieu]

	Originally Posted by Subgenius To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Not necessarily

Nothing distinguishes those who succeed from those who get help?

[mozartus]

	Originally Posted by ENIT To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I give you meta-analyses of clinical trials and you give me a WebMD article on serotonin. Oh, and cognitive therapy doesn't work particularly well because I don't have negative thought patterns about myself, which is, like, the bedrock of that shit.

I rather not spend time searching for links when you can possibly search for the answers on your own, other than provide a site that has a quick overview. Afterall, you've studied extensively about the topic.

Feeling anhedonic and unhappiness is a negative thought pattern, even if it's not something you're thinking with words, per se.

[Moxiie]

When my friends are undecided about something I usually ask them if they want me to talk them into it or out of it.

I asked earlier why did you post this here? What was your underlying reason for doing so? It appears that you were searching for "third parties to check your premises and conclusions" which to the stranger on the internet might appear to be asking for real world or theoretical alternatives to suicide (to me, I may be wrong of course, I often am)

That assumption being made, why be such a dick to people when they offer alternatives to your reasoning? You appear to be asking for something akin to it when you ask for third party intervention on a public internet forum to check your conclusions.

If you have no intention of considering any of the thoughtful input from the people here, why post in the first place?

[Subgenius]

	Originally Posted by mieu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Nothing distinguishes those who succeed from those who get help?

You can be truly suicidal and not kill yourself. Now if you are a suicide, I think that pretty much implies that you are dead.

[ENIT]

Originally Posted by Moxiie To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

When my friends are undecided about something I usually ask them if they want me to talk them into it or out of it. I asked earlier why did you post this here? What was your underlying reason for doing so? It appears that you were searching for "third parties to check your premises and conclusions" which to the stranger on the internet might appear to be asking for real world or theoretical alternatives to suicide (to me, I may be wrong of course, I often am) That assumption being made, why be such a dick to people when they offer alternatives to your reasoning? You appear to be asking for something akin to it when you ask for third party intervention on a public internet forum to check your conclusions. If you have no intention of considering any of the thoughtful input from the people here, why post in the first place?

I'm not confident that I can fully trust my thought processes. I wanted verification or... whatever the opposite of verification is.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to blindly accept the opinion of someone who tells me I'm wrong. And I'm not getting a lot (some, but relatively few) compelling reasons.

[ppu6502]

Your refusal to answer certain questions implies you may be hiding some premise, in fear it's exposure will lead to an opening to be discredited. If you want fair logical debate, you can't be hiding details.

[ENIT]

	Originally Posted by ppu6502 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Your refusal to answer certain questions implies you may be hiding some premise, in fear it's exposure will lead to an opening to be discredited. If you want fair logical debate, you can't be hiding details.

What questions?

[ppu6502]

	Originally Posted by ENIT To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What questions?

I'll start here, there were others along the way.

	Originally Posted by ppu6502
	Can you go into a bit of detail about how your experience of day to day life feels? or rather, doesn't feel if that's the case. Do you feel negative emotions, but none positive, or is it a total lack of emotional affect?

[ENIT]

	Originally Posted by ppu6502 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'll start here, there were others along the way.

It varies between apathy and "I can't deal with one more second of this". Depends on the day, really.

[Moxiie]

	Originally Posted by ENIT To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm not confident that I can fully trust my thought processes. I wanted verification or... whatever the opposite of verification is. But that doesn't mean I'm going to blindly accept the opinion of someone who tells me I'm wrong. And I'm not getting a lot (some, but relatively few) compelling reasons.

What are the relatively few compelling reasons you've received thusfar here and why are they compelling?

[ppu6502]

	Originally Posted by ENIT To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It varies between apathy and "I can't deal with one more second of this". Depends on the day, really.

How does it differ from the common, and generally temporary, experience of an
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?

I just mean to say, that description doesn't seem detailed enough to differentiate itself from an existential crisis.

[mieu]

	Originally Posted by ppu6502 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Your refusal to answer certain questions implies you may be hiding some premise, in fear it's exposure will lead to an opening to be discredited. If you want fair logical debate, you can't be hiding details.

This is also the sixth thread he's posted about his depression and suicidal ideation. Something tells me that 'debate' isn't the objective, here.

[ENIT]

	Originally Posted by ppu6502 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How does it differ from the common, and generally temporary, experience of an To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ? I just mean to say, that description doesn't seem detailed enough to differentiate itself from an existential crisis.

Well, as you said, it's not temporary. And the fact that I'm pretty well past ambivalence on the whole "Is life worth living?" question.

---------- Post added 05-08-2012 at 06:20 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by mieu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This is also the sixth thread he's posted about his depression and suicidal ideation. Something tells me that 'debate' isn't the objective, here.

Yeah, like I said, not exactly a new thing. And suicidal depression isn't really one of those things you can shelve and come back to later.

[nowt]

What is the closest you've gotten to suicide, again?

[Zodd]

	Originally Posted by Reizu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Does this mean that you're NOT willing to try to alter you life in any way? If so, that's just ridiculous; how are you supposed to get out of this depression if you're not willing to try anything new?

Yeah, that's totally what she's saying :rolleyes

	Originally Posted by mozartus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You would end everything because of unhappiness?

You know you have too explain yourself about this because it's a really weird question, right? I'm not clicking that link called "list of thinkers" or something, this requires an easy explanation.

	Originally Posted by Antares To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	ENIT: therefore join the military. Boot camp will keep you sufficiently occupied you won't be able to think about much. If depression is a cycle of thought then best that your inner voice is gagged. If your life is "good" and you want to die, then you can do without it.

Yeah, become a mindless soldier and still not be happy, that will really make her feel better.

	Originally Posted by slug To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You wanted us to check your logic. Whatever you're thinking and feeling is not going to be right because it's being skewed by the depression.

You'd think thinking is pretty much unchanged with depression because it is a mood disorder. And actually it is often that depressed people see the world a lot clearer than non-depressed people. Might have to do with because they aren't occupied being happy and everything is depressing so might as well go all out thinking about stuff you otherwise would feel bad about thinking. Feeling is what it is, just feelings, there is no right or wrong. You could think about what why you feel something, which could be wrong, but I don't know of a reason why depressed people think more irrational so that falls out of the boat.

	Originally Posted by Selene To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It matters to the strangers here who care enough to ask what exactly were those personal experiences you've had that led you to this fatalistic/emotionally removed conclusion about life.

But this thread isn't about those people.

	Originally Posted by mozartus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	A chemical imbalance is indeed a real thing. Read about your To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ~ Your brain is probably having issues with the Serotonin and Dopamine systems, and can be solved.

The chemical imbalance thing is only about depressed people. My psychiatrist says a lot of people these days is called depressed sometimes in their lives (1 out of 4), but far from all are really "depressed". Depressed is when there isn't much reason to feel shitty but you do feel shitty. If your mother just died, broke up with your boyfriend, lost your job and you feel shitty you aren't depressed and there isn't much drugs can do because it is the way you look at life that makes you feel shitty. This is kinda the case with me, my psychiatrist acknowledges this now, tried one kind of anti-depressive and that didn't work. There were more people with this kind of burden on their life on this forum. Only one that comes too mind is Eudoxus (interesting poster imo that got banned a year ago). It mostly has to do with how they view life/the world and how they feel in it. A lot of people here just don't feel challenged appearantly, and they don't see purpose, even if they don't feel bad, don't think drugs will help you there. Eudoxus' big problem was with love. Mine is with feeling bad about sucking in everything I do. I don't know why but I just want too throw these words in here: "black and white thinking", ". I don't know if threadstarter is depressed. About her situation: I don't really care because she isn't happy nor feels shitty, so really doesn't matter by that information.

[ENIT]

	Originally Posted by nowt To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What is the closest you've gotten to suicide, again?

Yesterday, when I held two bottles of pills in my hand and thought for a while.

[nowt]

Kinda pills?

	Originally Posted by ENIT To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yesterday, when I held two bottles of pills in my hand and thought for a while.