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Synesthesia might explain why some people can see "auras" perception
Old 05-07-2012, 06:48 PM   #1
WindUp
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I found it very interesting that there might be some scientific basis (in some instances) of a phenomenon that is considered mystical or downright bullshit by most. I wonder what will happen with the research.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:01 PM   #2
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  Originally Posted by WindUp
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I found it very interesting that there might be some scientific basis behind a phenomenon that is considered mystical or downright bullshit by most. I wonder what will happen with the research.

Well, did you note the qualifiers in the link, 'at least some' ...

This is just another grasp at the straw of materialism.

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Old 05-07-2012, 07:32 PM   #3
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Right. Fixed the thread title and OP accordingly.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:14 PM   #4
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The rationalization of emotions is a human thing, our perception is heavily influenced by emotions as they occur prior to logic within our minds. This seems similar to when people see demons in the dark, its just our brain filling in the gaps.

For most people, the awareness of what constitutes our minds is just the tip of the iceberg, so much information is processed behind the scenes. Our brains pick up on things before we can think about it all the time, very subtle things like body language, odor (indications of various hormone levels), heart beat, (perhaps even some form of ESP), could all play a role in our perception of others. The article implies a correlation to a possible mechanism, however that doesn't necessarily mean its a delusion.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:53 PM   #5
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  Originally Posted by Sk8ordude
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The rationalization of emotions is a human thing, our perception is heavily influenced by emotions as they occur prior to logic within our minds. This seems similar to when people see demons in the dark, its just our brain filling in the gaps.

I... don't see demons in the dark. I would never even think of that (despite having grown up in a Pentecostal Christian cult).

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Old 05-08-2012, 07:29 AM   #6
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Alot of people do (shadows, ghosts, movement, eyes, etc), I can see anything I want to on a blank canvas.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:38 AM   #7
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Synesthesia is just the association of different perception sources.
Vision distortion might rather be linked to Autosuggestion and Hallucinations than Synesthesia.

Regarding the association of face-recognition area with the color one, is just an argumentative construct to publish a dubious scientific work and raise some public interest.

They can't perceive the auras, and the auras are not associated with other traceable sensory stimuli(not measurable). Therefore it's would be incongruent to relate Aura-sensing with synaesthesia.

Tip: Never trust articles with titles containing "May/perhaps/etc."
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:51 AM   #8
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  Originally Posted by Sk8ordude
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Alot of people do (shadows, ghosts, movement, eyes, etc), I can see anything I want to on a blank canvas.

All people do this. Given a blank canvas (such as the dark) the brain seeks the detail that should be there (which it has evolved to spot). Failing to find that detail it focuses on and amplifies the random noise which is ever present and normally subconsciously filtered out. From that noise it in attempts to guess the scene. Since the human brain is hard-wired to spot certain things (like beasts that will eat you) they are likely to feature.

This is a meditation practice. Where you keep a part of you back and watch the images from a distance. What you are seeing is a part of yourself that you are not usually concious of and that can prove useful for self-analysis.

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Old 05-08-2012, 09:54 AM   #9
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Annoying when people put mystical spin on different ways to perceive. Even the term 'synesthesia' is questionable, at least as what's deemed to be a condition.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:38 AM   #10
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[hide=Louis-Bertrand Castel.]
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[/hide]

 
Louis-Bertrand Castel.
L’Optique des Colours, fondée sur les simples observations, & tournée sur-tout à la practique de la peinture, de la teinture & autres arts coloristes. Paris: Braisson, 1740.

Like Goethe, Louis-Bertrand Castel (1688-1751) opposed Newtonian color theory. However, unlike Goethe, who had thought that Newton’s experiments were flawed, Castel rejected experimental science altogether. Castel supported the views of René Descartes, a French philosopher who distrusted sense perception and advocated science based on logical thought rather than on empirical observation. “Newton,” Castel complained, “reduced man to using only his eyes.”

Castel himself theorized that vibrations produced color, just as they produced sounds. He concluded, therefore, that colors and sounds were analogous, which led him to attempt to develop the “ocular harpsichord” described in this book. The harpsichord was supposed to display colors in correspondence with particular notes. He had originally meant for the harpsichord to remain theoretical, but the skepticism of his critics caused him to spend thirty years trying to construct such an instrument.

Melva B. Guthrie Fund

The idea here is to understand that while we think too, build analogous means to interpret reality, we just change the way we are perceiving it in order to produce a shift in what we see with our eyes. This can be abstractly also seen with our minds. You see the historical flavour that is trying to be achieved?

[hide=Prof Rimington-COLOUR MUSIC LIGHT]
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If ever the stage lighting business needs a patron saint, it need look no further than to Professor Alexander Wallace Rimington. He was an advocate of Colour Music and a sort of roving ambassador for lighting effects in that halcyon period prior to the First World War.
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This might have been a subjective model construct that existed long before we had physiological seen the result as a consensus toward how we all perceive reality but is understood that this form of perception existed as a multilateral cross over in the sensory interpretations. How our perceptions solidify. You see. Acceptance of that general consensus came after we accepted the general construct while inherent in the youth of should be considered?

Subjectively how one then interpret reality? Require that consciousness be considered as a concept of interpreting reality?

 

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. I will listen to it every day of my life if I need to. It's honest to God the most important song I’ve ever written in my life, and it has the fewest words. I was in LA, and I was there for the summer, just writing tunes, and I was in the shower. And I don't know where it came from, but it's the damn truth you know, and I just sang, "gravity...is working against me.Gravity (John Mayer song)


While Einstein gives one an association to a thought experiment this is posted in terms of a pretty girl and a hot stove,
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were part of the historical research development for detection analysis of interpreting gravity. Without consciousness involved how could any interpretation exist? Experimental development. This required some kind of model development and using consciousness to interpret subjective experience. How could this be accomplished?

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Old 05-08-2012, 10:52 AM   #11
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Get a UV lens and a digital camera with the UV filter removed.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:54 AM   #12
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  Originally Posted by thod
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This is a meditation practice. Where you keep a part of you back and watch the images from a distance. What you are seeing is a part of yourself that you are not usually concious of and that can prove useful for self-analysis.

There's a game some kids play, go into a dark room by yourself, and stare into a mirror. You'll see some quite interesting things (possibly terrifying).

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Old 05-08-2012, 11:07 AM   #13
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It certainly makes sense that a synaesthete might associate people with colours. However, my experience has been that no two synaesthetes have the same set of associations. For instance, my mother and I both associate letters and numbers with colours, but we disagree on which colours and which symbols go together. To some extent, we can agree on sound-texture associations, like music that sounds "sticky", "tinny" or "dry", but I think this is one of the few synaesthetic dimensions easily accessible to people without the full-fledged condition.

Accordingly, I find it difficult to believe these "healers" are tapping into anything objective or universal when they talk about people's auras, if they are using synaesthesia - someone might seem blue-green to me, and yellow to you. High empathy might help with various "psychic" skills, but I don't see what good synaesthesia would do. And I actually do associate people I know with colours, though not terribly strongly.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:10 AM   #14
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  Originally Posted by ppu6502
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There's a game some kids play, go into a dark room by yourself, and stare into a mirror. You'll see some quite interesting things (possibly terrifying).

Psychomanteum, an ole Greek experience?

[hide=If the heart was free from the impurities of sin, and therefore lighter than the feather, then the dead person could enter the eternal afterlife. ]
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[/hide] This is a much more ancient idea about the reality for living in a emotive world? Our conditions that we apply to subjectively remembering the work we had done.

One has to understand the choices that they make in a larger context may mean that experience is measurable according to a scale that is inherent in our review as the truths we live? These may all be different according to the reasons we accept the basis of this reality? Our reason for accepting the journey again?

 
For example, in 1704 Sir Isaac Newton struggled to devise mathematical formulas to equate the vibrational frequency of sound waves with a corresponding wavelength of light. He failed to find his hoped-for translation algorithm, but the idea of correspondence took root, and the first practical application of it appears to be the clavecin oculaire, an instrument that played sound and light simultaneously. It was invented in 1725. Charles Darwin’s grandfather, Erasmus, achieved the same effect with a harpsichord and lanterns in 1790, although many others were built in the intervening years, on the same principle, where by a keyboard controlled mechanical shutters from behind which colored lights shne. By 1810 even Goethe was expounding correspondences between color and other senses in his book, Theory of Color. Pg 53,
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You construct a parameters for reality for colour interpretations as a associate of emotive constraints toward seeing experiential facets of the choices we make?

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Old 05-08-2012, 11:40 AM   #15
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It would explain why some people see things that don't exist. That would be like a hallucination. You can take 50 people all having hallucinations, in the same room, and they can each see a hallucination. But each hallucination would be different. the same would follow here. If that is the case, then if we take 50 people who claim to see auras, and put them in front of the same 50 people, there would be no consistent consensus as to the auras of the test cases. If the views of the subjects are consistent for each test case, then it would not be the behaviour of a hallucination.

Another way to test it, is to test for synaesthesia itself, which can be measured objectively. In this case, we would take 5,000 people who all claim to see auras, and we test for objective synaesthesia, against the subjective amount of auras the subject claims to see. If auras are caused by synaesthesia, then we would expect to see an exact proportional correlation between the level of objective synaesthesia, and the level of subjective aura-perception. To ensure that the researchers are unbiased, we require that we run a triple-blind trial.

Problem solved. Scientifically.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:46 AM   #16
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  Originally Posted by scorpiomover
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It would explain why some people see things that don't exist. That would be like a hallucination. You can take 50 people all having hallucinations, in the same room, and they can each see a hallucination. But each hallucination would be different. the same would follow here. If that is the case, then if we take 50 people who claim to see auras, and put them in front of the same 50 people, there would be no consistent consensus as to the auras of the test cases. If the views of the subjects are consistent for each test case, then it would not be the behaviour of a hallucination.

Another way to test it, is to test for synaesthesia itself, which can be measured objectively. In this case, we would take 5,000 people who all claim to see auras, and we test for objective synaesthesia, against the subjective amount of auras the subject claims to see. If auras are caused by synaesthesia, then we would expect to see an exact proportional correlation between the level of objective synaesthesia, and the level of subjective aura-perception. To ensure that the researchers are unbiased, we require that we run a triple-blind trial.

Problem solved. Scientifically.

This is what is required.
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help to parametize the particulate constructs of "reality forming messages" from our past. This is done so as to interpret the results of today? Provide a geometric understanding of the collapse with regard too, astronomical locations and expressions within the cosmos information in the background. K= 0, Omega. What is the universe doing today. We are all part of this idea of a "toposense."

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Old 05-08-2012, 11:53 AM   #17
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People interpret colors differently, if the auras are the result of emotion/intuition then different colors would be ascribed to different feelings which would reslult in people describing auras differently. We dont even know if a specific wavelength of light is interpreted the same among different people, we just agree that a color is the name of a specific wavelength.

So we should look at the meaning and metaphors people associate with the same thing, or their emotions/ gut feeling/ intuition trigger the visuals of different colors associated with specific meaning attached to them.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:56 AM   #18
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  Originally Posted by PlatoHagel
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<snip a lot of wat>

Could you pass a Turing test?

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Old 05-08-2012, 11:57 AM   #19
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  Originally Posted by Sk8ordude
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People interpret colors differently, if the auras are the result of emotion/intuition then different colors would be ascribed to different feelings which would reslult in people describing auras differently. We dont even know if a specific wavelength of light is interpreted the same among different people, we just agree that a color is the name of a specific wavelength.

A better study would be the meaning and metaphors people associate with the same thing, or their emotions/ gut feeling/ intuition trigger the visuals of different colors associated with specific meaning attached to them.

That's the point there is no consistent method to a measure. One would like to institute a psychological model according to the physiological correspondences to reality forming parameters of thinking?

This requires us to understand something about our own self and the understanding of our emotive construct framing reactions to the reality we choose to live? Even in this regard it is a struggle for us all to be tossed on the waves of to see it has a physiological consequence.

What about the construct of the memories we live? The point is we can review this in subjective states and you do not need an open eye but an eye turned internally. What scientific method is out there?

A change in the understanding of how frequencies are used from the radio to how we see in the shape of our colors is an individual thing so one would like to be able to see our individuality as an expression of a choice we have taken upon ourselves. To choose to live our life in reason and truth.

---------- Post added 05-08-2012 at 12:10 PM ----------

  Originally Posted by ppu6502
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snip.....snip
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You have to be able to understand the algorithm to actively discuss your problems is to put the talk back onto you. Eliza is good at that.

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Old 05-08-2012, 01:59 PM   #20
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  Originally Posted by Xanthippe
Accordingly, I find it difficult to believe these "healers" are tapping into anything objective or universal when they talk about people's auras, if they are using synaesthesia - someone might seem blue-green to me, and yellow to you. High empathy might help with various "psychic" skills, but I don't see what good synaesthesia would do. And I actually do associate people I know with colours, though not terribly strongly.

To begin with, this is a virtual reality, (first emphasis) and there is no objective reality 'out there'. There is a causal chain but it it founded on statistical probability as quantum physics indicates.

The next emphasis is where you provide the proof to the above statement through your own example.

In fact I know of a workshop to teach how to heal with intent, that turns this aspect, 'anything objective' on it's head by instructing the healers to visualize the unhealthy spot as a white spot against a dark form, instead of the other way around as is common to demonstrate it makes no difference to the intent of healing as long as the healer decides the color choice beforehand..

---------- Post added 05-08-2012 at 04:07 PM ----------

  Originally Posted by Skeordude
We dont even know if a specific wavelength of light is interpreted the same among different people, we just agree that a color is the name of a specific wavelength.

This is exactly the implication to the research of Dr. Beau Lotto who I linked to in a previous
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shows that, in spite of our
strongest instincts, colour
is a purely subjective experience,

governed by the context
in which we see it.

Redness is not a
product of the world.

It doesn't exist unless
we're there to make it.

Blueness is not a part of the world,
wavelengths are not colour.

All they are is little packets
of energy called photons,
they are not colour.

We take that and we make
perceptions of them, and those
perceptions guide our behaviour.

Illusions fool us
because, try as we might,

we cannot overcome our experience
of how we think the world works.

It's these experiences we
store in our heads that really
determines what we see.

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Old 05-08-2012, 03:11 PM   #21
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  Originally Posted by Xanthippe
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It certainly makes sense that a synaesthete might associate people with colours. However, my experience has been that no two synaesthetes have the same set of associations. For instance, my mother and I both associate letters and numbers with colours, but we disagree on which colours and which symbols go together. To some extent, we can agree on sound-texture associations, like music that sounds "sticky", "tinny" or "dry", but I think this is one of the few synaesthetic dimensions easily accessible to people without the full-fledged condition.

Accordingly, I find it difficult to believe these "healers" are tapping into anything objective or universal when they talk about people's auras, if they are using synaesthesia - someone might seem blue-green to me, and yellow to you. High empathy might help with various "psychic" skills, but I don't see what good synaesthesia would do. And I actually do associate people I know with colours, though not terribly strongly.

I actually do associate people with colours, and those colours may vary based on the health and mood of the person in question. It's not an aura, though; I've never tried to see an aura on something. It's more that the energy of the person slips a tint over my vision, and I feel it as much as I see it. Excessive emotion or negativity overwhelms me with murky or unpleasant colours and sensate experiences, which is why I avoid it, besides it being pointless. Similarly, excessive excitement or positivity can become too bright, even blindingly so, and give me an awful headache. Negativity seems to be lower tones; positivity, higher ones.

Much of the time, I experience my synaesthesia while listening to music; I see it and feel it as much as I hear it, and it affects my overall energy. I don't expect that my associations are the same as anyone else's, mainly owing to the fact that our senses are highly unique and subjective, and even the basest of our senses, such as plain colour vision, there is a fair degree of variance from person to person. Thus, when combining two varying sensory experiences, it would stand to reason that the possibility of unique variance would only increase.

I agree that I find it highly difficult to believe that synaesthesia represents anything objective or universal. Human sensory experience is unique, and highly subjective. Objectivity only represents the extent to which the majority of people subjectively experience the same sensory input in a similar enough way to be considered virtually equivalent. If an experience is too equivocal, it is considered subjective, but subjectivity and objectivity are only relative descriptions of an overall subjective world. Sorry, guys. INTJ objectivity is little more than attempting to limit the scope of one's experiential knowledge to those things which are universally experienced in a highly similar way.

For what it's worth, my INTP and I can agree on sound-texture associations, even though said INTP is not a synaesthete, but rather simply has excellent aural discernment. I think you're right that it's more accessible to others, especially for intuitive folks with strong hearing.

  Originally Posted by RBM
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To begin with, this is a virtual reality, (first emphasis) and there is no objective reality 'out there'. There is a causal chain but it it founded on statistical probability as quantum physics indicates.

^ This is relevant to my above statements on objectivity vs. subjectivity.

  Originally Posted by Sk8ordude
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People interpret colors differently, if the auras are the result of emotion/intuition then different colors would be ascribed to different feelings which would reslult in people describing auras differently. We dont even know if a specific wavelength of light is interpreted the same among different people, we just agree that a color is the name of a specific wavelength.

So we should look at the meaning and metaphors people associate with the same thing, or their emotions/ gut feeling/ intuition trigger the visuals of different colors associated with specific meaning attached to them.

Indeed. One cannot assume that auras would appear as the same colour across multiple people. The colour is a symbol, and little more. What ought to be done is a study on whether or not aura-reading is accurate. If ten people claiming to be able to see and interpret auras look at one person, they may see ten different colours. But do those colours, to each synaesthete, all mean the same thing - anger, joy, illness? Theoretically, while each synaesthete may have a different colour "key" for what they experience from others, if each of them looks at someone who is terminally ill but shows no symptoms obvious to the naked eye, and they each see a colour that, to them, represents a disturbance or corruption of that person's energy, suggesting illness -- well, I would say that THAT would go further toward proving aura-reading than anything else.

  Originally Posted by RBM
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In fact I know of a workshop to teach how to heal with intent, that turns this aspect, 'anything objective' on it's head by instructing the healers to visualize the unhealthy spot as a white spot against a dark form, instead of the other way around as is common to demonstrate it makes no difference to the intent of healing as long as the healer decides the color choice beforehand.

This does not surprise me. Our minds are more powerful than most people give them credit for, and the point is not in the semantics, but in the energy that we harness. I do think that belief has much to do with our experience in life, and whether or not anyone agrees with me is up to them, as I am fundamentally agnostic on all spiritual topics, and when choosing from multiple options that make equal "objective" sense to me (e.g. cannot be proven nor disproven), choose to believe those which make the most subjective sense to me. I also freely and openly admit that my stances cannot be proven, and should they ever be disproven, I will relinquish them without struggle.

Additionally, some of the responses on this thread represent the very reasons that I generally hesitate to discuss my synaesthetic experiences with the general public, as well as the reason that most people find us INTJs to be abrasively judgemental toward anything that we cannot experience ourselves, and thus closed-minded and anal-retentive, particularly as compared to INTPs. Come off of your high horse. Someone else's different experience is not a threat to you. If you feel threatened, follow these steps: log offline, go to the store, and buy yourself some magnesium citrate - 2-3 bottles should be sufficient - because you are currently too constipated for this reality.

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Old 05-08-2012, 03:30 PM   #22
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Have you considered that the colors you "see" on people linked to health/mood/etc. are just another reference to what you already can visually (i.e sensorily acquired) determine?
To clarify further, let's say being in bad mood to back. Can you determine the bad mood neglecting color associated with it?
I am compelled to think that is a learned behavior, but doesn't imply that what you perceive holds true- specifically speaking about health status-.

And about laxatives, not thanks
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:52 PM   #23
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  Originally Posted by akira no kuma
Additionally, some of the responses on this thread represent the very reasons that I generally hesitate to discuss my synaesthetic experiences with the general public, as well as the reason that most people find us INTJs to be abrasively judgemental toward anything that we cannot experience ourselves, and thus closed-minded and anal-retentive, particularly as compared to INTPs. Come off of your high horse. Someone else's different experience is not a threat to you. If you feel threatened, follow these steps: log offline, go to the store, and buy yourself some magnesium citrate - 2-3 bottles should be sufficient - because you are currently too constipated for this reality.

Nice to have a synesthesiate to enter the dialog. As an 'existentialist of sorts' (I did some research) I have lots of 'constipated reply's to my typical comments ;-)

 
For what it's worth, my INTP and I can agree on sound-texture associations, even though said INTP is not a synaesthete, but rather simply has excellent aural discernment. I think you're right that it's more accessible to others, especially for intuitive folks with strong hearing.

My hearing loss, identified decades ago, is just one element in my life that has made me more reliant on my intuition.

Your statement prompts this recollection of mine:

  Originally Posted by Wiki
Targ's autobiography, Do You See What I See: Memoirs of a Blind Biker, was published in 2008, and describes his life as a scientist and legally blind motorcyclist. Targ lectures worldwide on remote viewing. He now resides in Palo Alto, California with his second wife, Patricia.

In case you are unfamiliar with Russel Targ:

 
At the Stanford Research Institute in the 1970s and 1980s, Targ and his colleague Harold E. Puthoff co-founded a 23-year, $25-million program of research into psychic abilities and their operational use for the U.S. intelligence community, including the CIA, Defense Intelligence Agency and Army Intelligence. These abilities are referred to collectively as "remote viewing.

Hope you chime in on some of my 'consciousness threads'.

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:13 PM   #24
akairo no kuma
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  Originally Posted by RBM
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Nice to have a synesthesiate to enter the dialog. As an 'existentialist of sorts' (I did some research) I have lots of 'constipated reply's to my typical comments ;-)

Ahaha, the correct word is synaesthete, if I'm not much mistaken.

But oh, I know. Finding people with functioning bowels, metaphorically speaking, can be extraordinarily challenging in the most ordinary of circumstances. I cannot tell you how many people claim that I can't possibly experience synaesthesia as "usual" or "typical" -- but it is, for me. Years and years of experiencing it has made me less sensitive.

  Originally Posted by RBM
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My hearing loss, identified decades ago, is just one element in my life that has made me more reliant on my intuition.

Same here. My hearing loss was caused by damage to my temporal lobe paired with recurrent ear infections, which means that it was two-part. The ear infections caused damage to my tympanic membrane, located in the middle ear, which created mild conductive hearing loss. The temporal lobe damage caused temporal lobe epilepsy, as well as difficulty processing auditory input and memories. As a result, many of my memories are vague or jumbled following the head trauma (for years following, I should note) due to not being properly "filed" (or attached to other information in a useful way). I also found it difficult, even when I could hear what someone was saying, to process what exactly they had said -- a very frustrating experience. I began to rely on other input. At the time, I didn't know what synaesthesia was, and I was terrified that I was perhaps insane, or damaged beyond repair.

As my neurologists speculated, the damage eventually healed, and my brain rewired itself, so to speak. The seizures faded after a few years, and then disappeared entirely. I did a number of mental "exercises" to facilitate and encourage this healing -- everything from puzzles to games to logic problems and so on. Some of these caused seizures; when they did, it meant that I had encountered a place wherein my brain was trying to send a signal through the scarring, rebounding, and effectively misfiring. It has been five years, and I have been seizure-free for over a year. However, the synaesthesia has remained, and I don't mind. It's just another element of my experience, adding depth to the information that I can absorb.

  Originally Posted by RBM
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Hope you chime in on some of my 'consciousness threads'.

Do send me a link if you think that I would be interested.

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Old 05-09-2012, 02:04 PM   #25
PlatoHagel
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Smilack says her synesthesia helps her create art, such as this piece, "
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Smilack belongs to the group of one to four percent of people worldwide with synesthesia, the neurological mixing of the senses. No two synesthetes have exactly the same perceptual experiences. Many perceive each number, letter of the alphabet, or day of the week as a different color. For others, sounds from the environment are always accompanied by moving geometric patterns in their "mind's eye."

Smilack has a rare form of synesthesia that involves all of her senses—the sound of one female voice looks like a thin, bending sheet of metal, and the sight of a certain fishing shack gives her a brief taste of Neapolitan ice cream—but her artistic leanings are shared by many other synesthetes. Scientists estimate that synesthesia is about seven times more common in poets, novelists, and artists than in the rest of the population. (Some of the most famous examples include artists David Hockney and Wassily Kandinsky and writer Vladimir Nabokov.)

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