[ManWithNoName]

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And here's a guy that's pretty much the ultimate INTJ :D To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Holy fuck we are boring talkers. The worst part is I know I'm like this guy too.
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Although we tend to be a bit more animated when more relaxed...really we are...I promise...

[followthehippos]

Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yeah, he's more tolerable to me in this one To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . I still vote on ENFP. He seems too confident in himself for an INFP (that sounds weird ... of course INFP's can be confident, but they're still mostly a bit shy in a subdued way), and his body language and facial expressions are all over the place (ours usually aren't). But yeah, in this one he could be a pretty extroverted INFP.

I tried watching this video too, stopped 3-5 seconds in again. I cannot stand the guy. I'm not even sure he's ENFP now, an ENFP doesn't get under my skin like this guy does (neither do INFPs). Either he is an extremely annoying, immature ENFP or he is another extroverted type.

[AnnaMolly]

	Originally Posted by ManWithNoName To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Holy fuck we are boring talkers. The worst part is I know I'm like this guy too. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Although we tend to be a bit more animated when more relaxed...really we are...I promise...

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Watch how he just STARES at the camera.
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And he's just so focused, hardly moves around. I don't find it boring, actually, it's kind of endearing.

In contrast, another INFP. Note how she looks away from the camera often, plays with her hair, forgets what she was saying, shows emotion about the things she's talking about, gets a bit off-track from time to time, and other FP things. (But again, in a more subued way, not all energetic and extroverted.) Watch at 4:05, how she makes an effort to refocus on the topic.
This one reminds me a lot of the way I probably talk like.
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[Auburn]

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly
	Watch how he just STARES at the camera. And he's just so focused, hardly moves around. I don't find it boring, actually, it's kind of endearing.

Yus.. that's what Ni eyes look like.
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They can be quite mesmerizing/hypnotic, which means that can evoke as sense of tranquility, or also sometimes put you to sleep. Heh..

[reckful]

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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Girl 2 seems solidly INFP to me, but Girl 1 not so much.

I'd say Girl 1's quite neurotic (and she talks about her strong self-consciousness), and maybe close to the middle on both N/S and J/P. Her I and her F seem pretty clear, but she starts off by admitting it took her a long time to figure out which type she was (and that she considered quite a few possibilities), and I suspect N/S and J/P were the dimensions she was wrestling with.

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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I get mixed J/P signals from this one. There's some lecturey J-vibe in there.

[koakuma]

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.


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Errh.. I want to type something here, but I don't know what. I think he's INTJ... but mostly I try to think of people around me that might act and talk like him, that might be INTJ... but I cannot think of anyone. I want an INTJ friend too.
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[reckful]

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And here's a guy that's pretty much the ultimate INTJ :D To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yikes. To quote somebody earlier in the thread: "No. No. Nononononono." Was this your revenge on me for calling beaver-boy an INFP?
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I feel like that "ultimate INTJ" is quite a bit different from me.

Just for starters, I'd say he's substantially less N than me. I could even buy him as a mild S. His interests are tennis, cooking and running, OK? If he's any kind of "ultimate" IN type, where are his intellectual and/or artistic passions?

And he seems so humorless! Also cold. He seems like an example of why INTJs have the "robotic" reputation. I suppose the fact that I'm Limbic may be the main factor there.

Did your eyes not roll during that early segment where he went on and on and on about how much it annoyed him to have to repeat himself? (Although, to his credit, he acknowledges the over-the-topness of that bit in the written description below the video.)

Here was his response to "Do you like animals and why?":

	I like having pets. I've had a dog for most of my life. I'd say, for the most part, I like watching animal behavior, or I like studying the habitats of animals, or maybe the distributions, or, um, why they act the way they do, that sort of thing, but it's nothing about animals themselves that I particularly like.

Don't you feel a little sorry for the guy's dog?
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Love him or hate him, you have to admit that beaver-boy the NFP, throughout his video, showed an awareness that he was making something for an audience to watch, and a drive to bring his creativity and wit into play (successful or, perhaps, not) and try to make things interesting/funny, and Ultimate INTJ is somewhere near the other end of the spectrum in that regard. Let's see, what's the next question? Um, OK, here's my totally straightforward (also generally dull) answer. Last question? Check. Now on to the next activity on the day's list.

Where's his punkish/wiseass streak? Is humorlessness a sixth temperament dimension that has yet to be discovered?
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If your basic problem with beaver-boy's video is that he just acts too damn goofy, my problem with Ultimate INTJ's video is that he doesn't seem to have a playful bone in his body. And you may say, well, he just made the choice to take a totally straightforward approach for purposes of this particular video, and maybe that's right. But given the way he came across, don't you find it a little hard to imagine him in mischievous/punkish/wiseass mode in any setting? In that regard, at least, and in Keirseyan-temperament terms, doesn't he vibe more like an SJ than an NT?

In Enneagram terms (and assuming he is, in fact, an N and not a mild S), maybe he's a solid 5w6 and I'm a 5w4 (although I don't really know much about the Enneagram types).

In any case, I'd be interested to hear if other INTJs react to him more like I did or feel like he's closer to "ultimate INTJ" than I'm giving him credit for.

[followthehippos]

It sounds to me from your description like the guy is making a mental connection with his type and the label that is INTJ. Hence, why he makes such weird observations about animals and explicitly points out how he observes the animals behavior but doesn't necessarily like the animal. It's part of the reason I partially dislike MBTI is because individuals will learn there type and they'll begin connecting their opinions of themselves with those descriptions, believing the label that has been placed upon them. In a way, I think it is bad. I think MBTI should not be so descriptive in that regard. Its rather annoying TBH..

[Zodd]

I typed in "INTJf" on youtube and this was the first result:

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[davai]

	Originally Posted by Zodd To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I typed in "INTJf" on youtube and this was the first result: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Feeler.

---------- Post added 05-04-2012 at 10:17 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by reckful To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In Enneagram terms (and assuming he is, in fact, an N and not a mild S), maybe he's a solid 5w6 and I'm a 5w4 (although I don't really know much about the Enneagram types).

FWIW, not all INTJs are going to be 5s. Don't discount 6w5 or 1s, maybe even 3s and 8s.

[koakuma]

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And here's a guy that's pretty much the ultimate INTJ :D To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

How can he stare into the camera and think plus talk at the same time? Thinking of what reckful wrote about N and S - doesn't N need to look away a bit more often to imagine what they are thinking, compared to S?

Compare that guy to
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(that I already posted and sorry for repeating). Their body languages and mimic are totally different.

[reckful]

Originally Posted by koakuma To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Errh.. I want to type something here, but I don't know what. I think he's INTJ... but mostly I try to think of people around me that might act and talk like him, that might be INTJ... but I cannot think of anyone. I want an INTJ friend too. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yes! I relate to this guy substantially more than Mr. Ultimate INTJ (AnnaMolly's video).

I'd already decided he was close to the border on J/P before he got to that part of his discussion, so his self-assessment and my assessment of him agree. INTj, or maybe INTx.

So that makes him considerably less J than me, and he also seems Calm (where I'm Limbic). So he's a cooler dude than me. I'm more nerdy/uptight. You might say I'm somewhere in between him and Mr. Ultimate INTJ on the cool/uncool spectrum. Again, though, I relate to this guy quite a bit more. His interests, his punkish bluntness and other things make him feel considerably more like a kindred spirit to me.

[Auburn]

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This guy is actually an ENFP too. He is not as eccentric as the previous one posted, but he's still Ne dominant. This is more of an average level of momentum for this type. Pay close attention to he how perks up his eyes constantly, and moves them around freely. The eyes are the focus of his face.

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This guy has very heavy Ni usage, but I suspect he's an Se dominant. ESFP. He might be Ni(Te) or Ni(Fe) too, but he is definitely an Ni or Se dominant type. His fascination with extreme forms of Yoga, which he talks about
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, is also not surprising given the heaviness of the Ni-Se duality he has. Notice how his eyes consume his face, they're the all important feature of his countenance. They steer the head as well as his thought processes. (signal of being a perceiving dominant)

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This girl probably is an INFP. It may be possible that she's ISFP though. The video quality is low, so I'm not entirely sure about the eyes (Ne/Se) but definitely Fi dominant. Notice how her smiles warm up her whole body (F) and the way she is passive yet a bit political and calculated in her speech. She resembles
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a lot too.

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This girl I think might be INTP or perhaps ENTP. She doesn't have many other videos so I can't say for certain. In her video she mentions being low on energy and it being nighttime so that may be a factor to consider. But she definitely is a Ti and Fe user, with Ti as one of her top two functions, of nothing else.

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Very clear Ni dominance and penetrative stare. Classic INTJ. Well, he actually has a bit more Fi consciousness than other INTJs, which he also mentions in his video in how he's not "emotionless" but just doesn't make decisions based on them.

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I dunno about this one. I suspect she's a judgment (T/F) dominant, likely either Te or Fe.
She too doesn't have many other videos to compare so I can't really say..

	Originally Posted by koakuma To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How can he stare into the camera and think plus talk at the same time? Thinking of what reckful wrote about N and S - doesn't N need to look away a bit more often to imagine what they are thinking, compared to S?

That is true for Ne, and to a lesser degree Se. But Ni and Si stare steadily in order to process. The duality of Ni-Se (whether that means a person is an S (has Se>Ni) or an N (has Ni>Se)) will be more steady. And the duality of Ne-Si will be more ballistic and have more movement. The 'ultimate INTJ guy' really is an INTJ.

	Compare that guy to To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (that I already posted and sorry for repeating). Their body languages and mimic are totally different.

Correct.
They're totally different.
This guy isn't an INTJ, he's actually an Ne+Si user.
His judging functions are probably different as well. My estimation is that he is some form of Ne/Si/Fe/Ti user.

	I typed in "INTJf" on youtube and this was the first result: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This guy is using Fe condescending. He's likely an ESTP. The sense of intellectual superiority he has, and the way he pushes that onto others is quite classic of ESTPs. You'll notice that this type often goes through a phase of considering itself brilliant and everyone else idiots, especially when Ni is involved as well.

[reckful]

I've used the word punkish a couple times in this thread (in relation to the two "INTJ" guys), and I got to thinking, who are the punkish types? And I don't mean punk in a way-old-fashioned street-cornery sense. I'm talking about N-style, cultural/attitudinal punkishness. And here's where I ended up. If I had to pick one type to be the most quintessential punk type, I'd pick INTP. And I'd suggest that, to arrive at the other three likely punk candidates among the MBTI types, what you do is hold the N steady and flip one (and only one) of the other three INTP preferences. Hence ENTP, INFP and INTJ.

Flip two preferences and what do you get. ENTJ? Nah. Punks operate from an outsider/underdog perspective, and ENTJs want to be in charge, right? ENFP? Nah. All four varieties of EF have too much wanting-to-be-likeable going on to make good punks — although I'd say the ENFP would be the most likely to date a punk. INFJ? Hmm. Probably a better punk candidate than the ENTJ or ENFP, but I'd say a solid notch down from the flip-one-preference trio.

So the best punk candidates are three out of the four NTs and one of the NFs. You might say INFPs are the most lovable (least caustic) of the punkish types.

Anybody agree?

If you do, and circling back to beaver-boy, can we not all agree that he's well inside the punk borders? Not caustic (that's the F part), but with a pretty dominant tone of snide/wiseass/idgaf-what-people-think?

Also: I strongly suspect the guy we see in his
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is closer to the real him than the one in his
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. And if that's true, it would appear that he significantly jacked up the more ENFP-ish qualities for entertainment purposes in the latter.

But in any case: Regardless of whether anybody has any desire to say anything further about beaver-boy, I'd be interested in other views on whether there are punkish types — and, more specifically, whether a punkish and/or wiseassy demeanor tends to be characteristic of INTJs.

[sircockburn]

	Originally Posted by reckful To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'd vote ENFJ. On T/F, it sounds like a typical case of an F deciding she's not a "feeler" because she tends to make "logical" decisions, rather than just following her "feelings" like those "feelers" do. She definitely comes across to me as an NF.

She has a stuffed Hello Kitty toy and a "Love" sign in the background.

Case closed.

---------- Post added 05-04-2012 at 06:55 PM ----------

Can anyone type JENNA MARBLES?

[koakuma]

	Originally Posted by reckful To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So the best punk candidates are three out of the four NTs and one of the NFs. You might say INFPs are the most lovable (least caustic) of the punkish types. Anybody agree? If you do, and circling back to beaver-boy, can we not all agree that he's well inside the punk borders? Not caustic (that's the F part), but with a pretty dominant tone of snide/wiseass/idgaf-what-people-think?

Hm. Interesting. I need to let this thought boil for a while. But yeah, I think I agree with you.



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ENTJ girl says "don't trust the test. You have to do a lot of research to figure if the description actually fits you". Smart girl.


Edit:
Jenna Marbles - I guess ExxJ - maybe ENTJ ENFJ? ESFJ? She's playful, but playful doesn't mean you have to be an F. The ENTJ's that I know are much more playful than the ENFJ's, so I guess ENTJ, but I'm probably wrong since I apparently suck at this so far. Plus it seems I'm bad with recognising the Se Si.

[reckful]

	Originally Posted by what yeah okay To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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Originally Posted by Auburn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Ah, she is definitely a 'compass' (Ti/Fi) lead with Ne as auxiliary, but I'm inclined to believe it's actually Fi+Ne not Ti+Ne. Her words are breathy, warming and sprite-like. Though I guess I don't know for certain, but definitely one of those two. Whichever of the two it is, she is heavy on her dominant function (Fi/Ti) and quite concerned with the principles of things. This makes her a type of passive politician. I really like people like her.

Sorry I'm a little late on this vid. Like Auburn, I get more of an F vibe. As I've said in other threads, I think INFs pretty often end up typing themselves as INTs because typical MBTI characterizations of F's fit SFs (and especially ESFs) better than the way F tends to manifest in INFs.

She's made at least one thread at one of the other forums questioning her type (both the I and the T), and here's part of what she said:

Originally Posted by existentialcat

The thing is, I'm not good at math or remembering nuggets of information unless it pertains to a conceptual model of interest (of which I have a limited number). I'm also not asocial exactly, and see logic as a means to an ends— that is, emotional growth and happiness. I do still make decisions first based on the reasonable thing to do, which is often dominant over what I want emotionally. But that is merely delayed gratification. However, sometimes it takes me a long time to process what I'm feeling, and I'm good at controlling it (except for in my rare relationships). Sometimes I also feel that there are great expectations for INTPs that I won't be able to fulfill, especially when it comes to being masters of logic. I'm good at it in real world situations, but I didn't do as well in the class However in defense of the typing, I'm absent-minded but very good at understanding broad concepts. There's no doubt that I value logic over emotion, but I see this as somewhat of a fault. I "over-analyze" everything that is of interest, and enjoy talking to myself to sort out ideas and to find consistency. I'm obsessed with consistency. Not being religious, it is the only comfort I have haha. I'm also pretty quiet by nature, and I'm always hearing that people cannot for the life of them figure me out. I'm interested in refection and knowing myself, because that's how I can understand reality since I'm the one processing it. On the other hand: I'm more interested in the inner workings of people than math, and I'm actually pretty good at reading social situations. I'm also good at acting, though I'm very bad at lying. This is a recent development though; I used to be a very awkward, asocial child.

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that she made after she first discovered the MBTI.

My take would be solidly I, very N, mildly F, and P.

-------------------------------------

ADDED: Here are two more vids (each 3 min.) that have increased my F lean:


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[AnnaMolly]

Oh boy, seems I'm still quite off at short-typing people. I don't think it's really possible to do this super accurately anyways, but I do find it interesting nonetheless, and there certainly are some clues one can look out for.

	Originally Posted by reckful To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yikes. To quote somebody earlier in the thread: "No. No. Nononononono." Was this your revenge on me for calling beaver-boy an INFP? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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I agree with you on him maybe being a bit weak on the N. The IxTJ signs are *very* clear though.
And I also agree that his hobbies seemed a bit ... well, "standard" to me, but not every INTJ has a secret lab in his cellar or something
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and about the dog: I think that's because this guy seems to be particularly high on T.
As for the "I hate to repeat myself", I've actually heard that from other INTJ's before :D I didn't see that as him being super-serious though, I thought I saw a slight twinkle in his eye there. Maybe it was just a side effect of the Ni-stare hypnosis, who knows.
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On the topic of "punkish" -- I don't perceive INTJ's as particularly punkish, really. J's can never achieve the punk of P's
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I'd say the most punk-ish type is probably ENTP. I've seen quite a few "natural born badass" ENTP's.
INFP's can be a bit punk as well, but more in a emo / rebellious way. We're always concerned about our ideals. Throwing a TV out of the window might hurt someone, you know? ENTP's don't care about these things
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(I'm kidding here ... mostly.)

	Originally Posted by sircockburn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Can anyone type JENNA MARBLES?

She can't be anything but ExxP, and I'm pretty certain it's ExTP. Sometimes she's pretty ingenious in a way that would suggest ENTP, other times she seems, pardon me, like a shallow club girl and more like an ESTP.

[dontmesswithme]

Originally Posted by koakuma To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Aw! Cute! Even though he's talking, it's hard to imagine what's going on in his mind. Btw, this guy reminds me of the main character in "I just want my pants back". I stumbled across this girl who claims she's an INTJ. First I thought "no way", but then, what do I know? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. She is very energic, in which people in the comments think she might be an ENTJ. People in other INTJ videos have a calmer way of speaking, but if INTJ's are interested in something they are able to ramble, right? So maybe she is an INTJ? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

She reminds me very much of a female INTJ I met who's on this forum. She's a high-energy INTJ. She's looking around, and talking a shit load. Just because someone talks a lot doesn't mean they're a Te-dom.

[reckful]

@Auburn --

I'd be curious to hear how you'd type Jung based on
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and which aspects of his physiognomy you base your conclusion on.

[Auburn]

	Originally Posted by reckful To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	@Auburn -- I'd be curious to hear how you'd type Jung based on To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. and which aspects of his physiognomy you base your conclusion on.

Based on just this video alone the physiognomy points to IxxJ, possibly IxFJ. But this video is low quality and I can't see his eyes very well. The eyes are what are used to discern S/N functions. Regarding the deduction itself:

Perception (N/S) Lead:"For a Perception type, the Eyes are the most prevailing part of their face. They are the center of focus, while the rest of the face is peripheral and disconnected from them."

Notice how he does all of his involvement with his eyes. He doesn't talk with his mouth, he talks through his eyes instead - and the mouth is simply animating down below, disconnected from the agenda of the eyes. For example, when he smiles the smile is unrelated to the eyes. It's as if the bottom half of his face has a mind of its own.


Worldview (Ni/Si) Lead: "Worldview leads have an inertial quality to their body movements - as a type of slow-moving, thick liquid substance that courses quietly, steadily through them. Their eyes and brows carry a sense of gravity and intensity in them that channels itself through the rest of their body. Their head, particularly the eyes, will direct the rest of the body. When moving, the body moves/leans as one mass rather than in separate segments, and their arm gestures are in synch with the direction of their eyes."

Notice how he always has an 'intensity' to his eyes and surrounding his eyes. When his head moves, the body moves with it. So for example, if he looks down, his whole being becomes invested in the act of looking down. Then if he looks to the side, his whole being becomes invested in looking in that direction. Then if he looks back at the interviewer, again the whole body cooperates in the act.


Now, as for Jung himself, I've watched many other interviews of him and I'm quite certain he's an Ni dominant. There is something that all Ni-Se eyes do and that is a toggle between zoning out into the distance, and reconnecting with Se onto the environment. Just one example of where Carl Jung does this is here:



Ni+Se Toggle

4:40 - Eyes and head drift to the left as he goes into memory recall (worldview).
4:44 - Eyes and head reconnect quickly back.
4:45 - Eyes and head drift to the left again as he looks for more memories.
4:49 - Eyes and head reconnect quickly again.
4:50 - Then quickly re-disconnect again and drift to the left.
4:53 - Then quickly re-connect again.

And to give examples of this cue in motion in other Ni dominants.
Watch each img loop about three times and focus on the words I spoke above,
to try and see the pattern.

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[reckful]

^ Thanks for the analysis. I've been rereading parts of Psychological Types lately and, although Jung's most often typed INTP (and, as discussed in
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and the posts it links to, considered himself an NT at the time he gave that interview) — and I lean INT for him myself — I've always thought there was a respectable case to be made that he was an INFJ (or an INTJ, for that matter).

He clearly thought of himself as an introvert, so it's probably safe to assume that, in many if not most cases where Psychological Types describes what introverts are like, he's describing himself (at least to some extent). So, as far as J/P goes, I think it might be telling that he noted that introverts tend to be "inflexible" about their ideas, and to have a "positive, highly generalizing manner of expression, which appears to rule out every other opinion from the start." Similarly, I think it's clear he thought of himself as a Ti-dom at the time he wrote Psychological Types, and he describes Ti-doms as "generally stubborn, headstrong, and quite unamenable to influence."

As further noted in one of the linked posts, it seems to me that people who assume Jung was correct about his own INT self-diagnosis and who subscribe to the conventional cognitive functions model (where he'd be Ti-Ne if he was an INTP and Ni-Te if he was an INTJ) face a bit of a conundrum with Jung, since he admits in that interview that figuring out his own type was a "painful" process and since, if you look at his descriptions of the eight types in Psychological Types, Ti seems to match him much better than Te, but at the same time Ni seems to match him better than Ne.