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Obama: Troops are 'new greatest generation' None
Old 05-03-2012, 10:45 PM   #76
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  Originally Posted by deconspire
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Let's say the US has no standing army. How safe you gonna be, brah?

Interesting question. Given the United States' history with respect to foreign policy, it wouldn't surprise me if people felt safer by maintaining a standing army. But I suspect that many attacks against Americans would probably end if the US withdrew from most of its current conflicts.

Maybe a draft or something that forces everyone to undergo military training could be used instead? If everyone from the president's kids to the middle school janitor's had to be called up during every armed conflict I suspect that the government and the population would be more interested in using diplomacy and compromise when disagreements happen and I think the US would have a better reputation for it.

After all, when you're removed from the conflict (most people) or you don't have to live with the consequences of your decisions (politicians and congress) it's a lot easier to gloss over the reality of what you're doing. You have no skin in the game, you don't see the effects your actions have on other people, and you can convince yourself that those numbers on your desk are either "collateral damage" or a sacrifice for the greater good. That kind of rationalization is not so straightforward when it's you or your son or your daughter that's going...

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Old 05-03-2012, 11:11 PM   #77
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  Originally Posted by INTelliJent
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That statement assumes you can afford to employ team, and the fact that you don't know what counter measures to expect either immediately, or over time, should give pause to any potential team, if not to yourself.

The statement assumes violent human interactions follow predictable patterns and the results follow a specific trend which is supported by a massive body of empirical evidence.

Cliff Notes: civilians are devoured at will by roaming militias.

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Old 05-03-2012, 11:16 PM   #78
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  Originally Posted by deconspire
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Actually, as I have a general discharge, I receive zero benefits. You're consuming MY tax dollars as well, and I gave a whole lot more than you.

Let's say the US has no standing army. How safe you gonna be, brah?

I will take every shot you civilians wanna take, and I'll answer you straight-up. As I've proven. Notice I didn't make a comment on anyone's political/military comments. Just the ones that put words in soldiers' mouths.

Also, your information on what has gone on is as biased and media controlled as the information you attack. You're really just another brainwashed US citizen, just in the other direction. Your citations, please?

I'm brainwashed, and yet you joined the military. Voluntarily. Your very intervention just destabilizes the world further. Americans seem to have this weird disconnect when it comes to the wars they launch for fun and profit. It's not that this country has, in one form or another, constantly interfered in that part of the world of decades. It's not that this country has sprinkled depleted uranium over entire swaths of land in the region. It's not that economic sanctions imposed on Iraq on the 90s indirectly killed hundreds of thousands...you get my drift. No, it's not that AT ALL. It's because they woke up one day and decided to H8 R FREDUMS DERP.

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Old 05-04-2012, 12:09 AM   #79
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  Originally Posted by Aronnax
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The statement assumes violent human interactions follow predictable patterns and the results follow a specific trend which is supported by a massive body of empirical evidence.

Cliff Notes: civilians are devoured at will by roaming militias.

I'd love to see your "massive body of empirical evidence" and see what constitutes "devour" or "militia" (most likely dubious), see how the "militia" is supported/equipped, and then rip out all the cases where the citizens are unarmed.


You'll most likely be left with nothing.

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Old 05-04-2012, 02:21 AM   #80
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  Originally Posted by Traverser
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I will have vengeance.

Have a nice day!
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Oh wait, I thought you eschewed violence? Aren't you glad to have people like me around?
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:24 AM   #81
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4 years on active duty as an Intel Analyst in the U.S. Army.

After reading the daily global intel briefs about horrible shit happening in the dark, and not so dark, corners of the world, but receiving no deployment orders to go and spread democracy or prevent atrocities, I came to the conclusion that the military is mostly used to serve special interests. The military is controlled by politicians, and the politicians are controlled by rich people with a variety of international business concerns. When those business concerns need to be protected, it's up to the taxpayer funded volunteer military to go thug on some other country.

Get this straight, and have no illusion. Businesses follow profit, politicians follow campaign donations, the flag follows the politicians, and the military follows the flag. It's a fucking transparent chain of events and anyone with a bit of time to research can point out the commercial interests or special interest groups behind just about every U.S. military action of the past 120 years.

Here's a good book to start with. It shows the early years of U.S. corporations bending politicians to send the military to enforce their interests. This is quite possibly the definitive book on the subject. It's written in a dry, matter of fact fashion, so don't expect sensationalism or impassioned pacifist rantings.

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Old 05-04-2012, 12:43 PM   #82
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  Originally Posted by Arcanist
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Oh wait, I thought you eschewed violence? Aren't you glad to have people like me around?
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Well, one need not endorse violence to have revenge. Ever seen the movie The Count of Monte Cristo?
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:57 PM   #83
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A society of vigilantism and vengeance sounds completely conducive to open and free trade.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:09 PM   #84
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  Originally Posted by INTJRyan
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A society of vigilantism and vengeance sounds completely conducive to open and free trade.

Obviously not ideal, but better (or at least no worse) than the western "justice" system.

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Old 05-04-2012, 03:41 PM   #85
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Its boosting morale, plus the last greatest generation is nearly all dead.

I thought they joined for the glory of killing shit, and to be better then those too cowardly to fight. The propaganda plays to this beat, and this mentality is apparent in many that make it back. I think they are right and that it does make you tougher and stronger then the average man/woman depending on which scale you are using, that is if you dont get dead or severely injured.

There are tons of way to get ahead financially other then signing your life over to fight in a far away desert, the pay is just a perk, and for the work involved its hardly worth it imo.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:03 PM   #86
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  Originally Posted by Arcanist
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I'm brainwashed, and yet you joined the military. Voluntarily. Your very intervention just destabilizes the world further. Americans seem to have this weird disconnect when it comes to the wars they launch for fun and profit. It's not that this country has, in one form or another, constantly interfered in that part of the world of decades. It's not that this country has sprinkled depleted uranium over entire swaths of land in the region. It's not that economic sanctions imposed on Iraq on the 90s indirectly killed hundreds of thousands...you get my drift. No, it's not that AT ALL. It's because they woke up one day and decided to H8 R FREDUMS DERP.

Your use of laughable strawman arguments doesn't do you much credit.

I also don't understand your repeated references to DU. Only a few weapons systems use it. Its negative health effects are a problem, but lead and other metals used in munitions also have serious problems under similar conditions (blasting something out of a cannon tends to cause some metal dust).
Then, you have the WHO saying, "A recent United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) report giving field measurements taken around selected impact sites in Kosovo (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia) indicates that contamination by DU in the environment was localized to a few tens of metres around impact sites. Contamination by DU dusts of local vegetation and water supplies was found to be extremely low. Thus, the probability of significant exposure to local populations was considered to be very low."
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So, don't play on the hulks of Iraqi tanks...

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Old 05-09-2012, 01:35 AM   #87
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  Originally Posted by INTelliJent
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It was at gunsmith but also in general. The US military hasn't defended the citizenry from aggression since......um...... yeah. Never. All US military action has been imperialistic in nature, benefiting bankers and corporations at the expense of the population. War is a Racket.

And I'm Chuck Norris. Even combat snipers bleed. And there's plenty of "guys like you" who will come after "guys like you" if you do start "running wild". I might give you like two months. I admit you'll probably have a hell of a time, although short, before someone sends you the bullet with your name on it.

Agreed on the first bolded part, and exactly my point on the second. But yet y'all seem to think you could defend yourselves when the real playas come. Which they would, if you have no army.

  Originally Posted by Traverser
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And this threat justifies what, exactly? Oh yes...the use of violence to get my said stuff....for my protection.

Anyway, you did ask a question, so I'll be blunt: One way or another, I will have vengeance.

Have a nice day!
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The threat is my point. It has nothing to do with your protection. No military = no protection.

  Originally Posted by stasis
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They'll summon the magical powers of arguments from volition, gleaned from the darkest arcane runes deep within the tome of Austrian Economics to stun and disable any interlopers just long enough for someone to equip a gold plated rifle and set up behind the canned beets. Then you'll be in deep shit.

Have you ever had to deal with a warrior mage in an environment of total anarchic privatization? They have like 10d6.

giggle. I see your point and raise you 10 years experience playing Risk.

  Originally Posted by Maybe to Dream
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Interesting question. Given the United States' history with respect to foreign policy, it wouldn't surprise me if people felt safer by maintaining a standing army. But I suspect that many attacks against Americans would probably end if the US withdrew from most of its current conflicts.

How willing are you to find out? It is common to assume this. I agree much of it is special interests. But it is also to keep them occupied and drain their resources. Anaconda plan.

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Old 05-09-2012, 02:32 AM   #88
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  Originally Posted by deconspire
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How willing are you to find out? It is common to assume this. I agree much of it is special interests. But it is also to keep them occupied and drain their resources. Anaconda plan.

Well obviously you'd have to look at each on a case by case basis but since a lot of attacks (as a result of special interest wars) have been about resisting occupiers and getting revenge for lost loved ones, ending some of these conflicts would dramatically lessen those sentiments.

At this point you couldn't just pull everybody and leave tomorrow but in a lot of cases compromises are there if the US wants them and structured exit plans are available. I have no problems keeping an army for self-defense purposes in general though. That would be reasonable.

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Old 05-09-2012, 07:13 AM   #89
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  Originally Posted by deconspire
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Agreed on the first bolded part, and exactly my point on the second. But yet y'all seem to think you could defend yourselves when the real playas come. Which they would, if you have no army.

The threat is my point. It has nothing to do with your protection. No military = no protection.

I did five years in the Marines, and studying the military (globally) is one of my hobbies. You can't scare me with wannabe Rambo talk. No one is protecting the US from it's own military now, if that's your argument, and the military wouldn't be the one coming after anyone who went Rambo anyway.

Inner city gangs and tribal warriors would destroy US military personnel without all their orders, comm, and overwhelming firepower, but US military personnel as individuals are mostly too scared to even attempt anyway. Then, of course, there are the inner city gangs who have been sending their personnel into the military for training. Hopefully they can't make it to Wyoming.

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Old 05-09-2012, 11:38 AM   #90
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  Originally Posted by Maybe to Dream
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Well obviously you'd have to look at each on a case by case basis but since a lot of attacks (as a result of special interest wars) have been about resisting occupiers and getting revenge for lost loved ones, ending some of these conflicts would dramatically lessen those sentiments.

At this point you couldn't just pull everybody and leave tomorrow but in a lot of cases compromises are there if the US wants them and structured exit plans are available. I have no problems keeping an army for self-defense purposes in general though. That would be reasonable.

I agree. I think our military should serve as a deterrent, and a defensive measure - not an offensive force. I believe "Speak softly and carry a big stick", is the best course of action. The Peace Amendment that Ghostwheel brought up is cognizant.

  Originally Posted by INTelliJent
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I did five years in the Marines, and studying the military (globally) is one of my hobbies. You can't scare me with wannabe Rambo talk. No one is protecting the US from it's own military now, if that's your argument, and the military wouldn't be the one coming after anyone who went Rambo anyway.

Inner city gangs and tribal warriors would destroy US military personnel without all their orders, comm, and overwhelming firepower, but US military personnel as individuals are mostly too scared to even attempt anyway. Then, of course, there are the inner city gangs who have been sending their personnel into the military for training. Hopefully they can't make it to Wyoming.

Thanks for your service, man.

It is not my argument. My argument is that if we have no military, we are extremely vulnerable as a nation to thuggish behaviors, and outside influence. Although our right to bear arms gives us some measure of personal protection, and small groups would perhaps successfully defend territories for a time...overall we would be weak and primed for invasion. I find it incredibly misguided and naive to attack the hand, and not the brain, as I have mentioned (not that you are).

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Old 06-04-2012, 04:24 AM   #91
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  Originally Posted by INTelliJent
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3 years is all you have? I had nearly that merely as an NCO in the USMC, in one enlistment. Spare us your self-righteous indignation based on little more effort than walking into the recruiters office. However, it's not a service to the nation. It's a service to corporate and political interests.

I'm retired, actually.

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Old 06-04-2012, 09:15 AM   #92
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  Originally Posted by Autumnleaf
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Is Obama paying them a compliment or is he shining them on?

Blow jobs, ass kissing and bullshit flinging are election year traditions in the U.S.

No surprises here.

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