[Midnightsun]

A very interesting subject indeed - thanx for bringing this up;

I think we need to start from recognizing the need to socialize (to a higher or lesser degree we are all social animals - we need to interact with one another)

Personally i would try to define Friendship as an interaction / relationship in which there are at least 2 key elements present:
1) a mutually stimulating exchange between 2 persons. the type of stimulus would depend on the personality - as an INTJ I am looking for intellectual stimuli - someone i can share ideas with and who will in return challenge me / share his / hers - someone who i find intellectually stimulating (and visa versa)- either a mind mate or an opponent; but I am open to the idea that the Feeling MBTI types would be looking for an emotional stimulus - "someone who understands them, feels the same way etc". Since it's not a laboratory experiment in "vacuum" - most likely there is a combination of different stimuli present (intellectual, feelings etc) in the interaction - the ones most important for the parties involved are the main ones but then there will be side-effects / peripheral stimuli as well...

2) mutual trust & respect - as framework for the above mentioned exchange. When i mention respect i mean the idea of recognizing and respecting the boundaries acceptable to both parties.

the mutually stimulating exchange can manifest itself in a direct interaction (conversation in its purest form), experiencing something together (passive - movies, party, having fun), sharing a purpose together (active -working on smth / constructing smth together).
But it's not the manifestation that defines the degree of friendship ("someone I know", "a friend", “a close friend", "my best friend") - it is the degree to which the 2 mentioned conditions are fulfilled.

The closer the friendship is - the more attached you feel to the individual (you want to continue to have access to the stimulating situations); the more you feel the need to care for them (=protect them, help them, be there for them) - to ensure they are ok, stay comfortable and continue participating in those mutually stimulating situations. In this process you may even put up with the behavior that you find un-stimulating / untrustworthy or lacking in respect (thus defying the actual principles on which the friendship is built) - but only for a while - as long as you believe that this is just a "phase" and the counterpart with or without your help will go back to "normal". Thus the paradox of the type - "You are my best friend, but you are an a**hole".

I believe that also after a while Friendship is a self-supporting structure (if the starting point is good compatibility): the more you trust the person, the more open you are to share with him / her, the more possibilities for mutual stimulation you have, the more the person is stimulating you (and visa versa) - the more time you want to spend together thus creating even more shared experiences and stimulating situations within the relationship.

Internal factors (permanent loss / significant reduction of one of the 2 necessary elements) can make you reduce the number of interactions and the friendship will eventually disappear - people call it "grow apart" and such... Friendship can also be influenced by external (to the relationship) factors - when for example a physical move prevents you from following the above mentioned natural path - you either lose the relationship which just means that it's the quantity and not the quality of stimuli that mattered; or your friendship remains strong despite the reduced number of interactions - due to the strength of the mutual stimulation when it does happen. It is interesting to observe that for people who move around a lot in the course of their lives (i have so far lived for longer periods of time (up to 7 years) in 4 different countries - really making my home there) - the natural chain of events is disturbed due to the moves - and the experience makes it easier to define between friendship and knowing someone / just sharing an experience together...

[CreepyCrawly]

	Originally Posted by plushbug To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So much analysis...

It's what we do best, isn't it?
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	Originally Posted by plushbug To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So much analysis... What it means to me, to like a person, is to say that I am always pleased to see or hear from them, or even just to know (eg., in online contexts) that they are still around, carrying on as themselves

Can you expand on this and how it works? How does it make you feel just "knowing that they're around?" Is this universal to everyone you would consider a friend?

	Originally Posted by plushbug To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I find them stimulating or entertaining, either in terms of activities we share (eg., learning to install a toilet), topics we discuss, or potentially just the spirit in which they approach the world around them

Again, this doesn't really means you like someone as a person - just that you like what you can use the person for.

	Originally Posted by plushbug To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I appreciate the things that are positive about them (or that work positively in my life, eg., their acceptance of me as myself, without lecturing or condemnation) more enough to be at peace with any negatives or "touchy" areas (eg., religiosity, traditional impressions of women's "proper" role in community) as long as they will allow me to be

See above. Also, does their accomodation of you being you make you feel different around them than you would around someone who didn't accomodate you the same way?

	Originally Posted by plushbug To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In general, I wish them well and would be sorry to hear of anything bad happening to them.

Mm. Is it different from the loss of an object, such as your computer? Or rather, a more expensive or irreplacable one, such as your house or a one-of-a-kind piece of art? If so, how?

	Originally Posted by MysteriousGnome To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	To me it is easier to look in the opposite direction. Not liking someone as a person means that I like interacting with someone for the purpose of some task/activity, but there is something they do tangential to that primary task/activity that detracts from enjoyment. That usually means I would enjoy the activity more if they were quiet.

So if you were to watch a film with a person you "dislike as a person," watching the film would be less enjoyable, even if it were an excellent film?

	Originally Posted by MysteriousGnome To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So liking someone as a person would be kind of the opposite of this. Usually it has to do with similar world view or synchronized thinking regarding something.

See above. Does this mean you feel a secondary enjoyment to any given action done with the friend?

	Originally Posted by SeverusSin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Good feelings when in company, thought or interaction with the person. This is what it means to like someone.

This could be the elusive "general happiness" feeling some people seem to have described, or simply enjoying the game of chess. Elaborate?

	Originally Posted by spindleshanks To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	i think you would only know the answer when you get to that situation. Finding out the meaning of "liking someone" by the use of definitions would help, but not as much as actually being in a position wherein your emotions get involved.

Finding out what it's like to murder someone through having serial killers describing it sure would be useful, but not half as useful as going on a chainsaw killing spree oneself.
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Thing is, I'm trying to quantify what friendship/"liking people" is; if there is some kind of secondary, ever-present feeling that comes along just because you are in presence of the friend, then this is alien to me, but knowing that others feel it is useful; if not, then people are weird and really bad at describing things (or apply unnecessary significance to very ephemeral things in an attempt to make them less ephemeral).

[MysteriousGnome]

	Originally Posted by CreepyCrawly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So if you were to watch a film with a person you "dislike as a person," watching the film would be less enjoyable, even if it were an excellent film? See above. Does this mean you feel a secondary enjoyment to any given action done with the friend?

If I were to watch a movie with someone that I don't like as a person that probably wouldn't have any effect on enjoyment of the movie assuming this is a passive activity and they won't talk during the movie. There might be some anticipatory negative effect if you expected what might come after the movie.

I wouldn't say there are any qualitative differences in enjoyment of different parts, but there is some internal classification going on in my head as to why I enjoy something. Things that are on the surface level in a way, such as interests and performance, go on one side. Deeper things more at the character level, for example the approach to life or way of thinking, are on the other and these would be labeled "as a person". It is a way of saying I don't agree with everything you're saying or we don't like the same things, but if I were to grow up under different circumstances we could have been perfect together.

[motu821]

I define it simply- to appreciate or respect the majority of their traits. or sometimes just their essence (sometimes there is just "something" about someone that draws you in, even when you can't pick out any outstanding traits that attract you)

[Saggita]

	Synthesis of the two components yields: "Romance" Physical Attraction + Personality/Emotional/Platonic Attraction = Romantic Attraction

I must object here because that's not how it works for me. I feel both attractions towards friend(s) of mine and I don't feel romantically attracted to any. Friendship + sexual contact (kissing, having sex) is not romantic love. For me.

I do find hard to explain what "liking" a person means -- I just like people and that's it. It's the same thing of explaining what sweet tastes like...

[BlacK Crow]

	Mm. Is it different from the loss of an object, such as your computer?

That's a great example, i like my computer because it gives me fun , people like their friends because they fulfill their need to feel good as a typical human.

People get mad at you if you tell them the reality of "liking someone", they convince themselves that it's a genuine interest, if you make someone laugh and happy they will love you , if you don't make them laugh or not do what they want you to do, they will hate you.... isn't that pathetic ? I've accepted the reason i like someone is that their existence somehow is beneficial to me.... i'm gifted to be not fully human and sociable so im free of using or getting used.

[fsmo]

Originally Posted by CreepyCrawly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The point you seem to be making, is that all humans are "vulnerable," or weak, and if they aren't they're not very human at all, and this prevents them from bonding with other humans. I can't get behind that idea. We don't have inherent psychological weaknesses. And while most of us do have weaknesses, I fail to see how they are vital in interpersonal relationships. Additionally, I personally do have flaws I make no attempt to hide. Following your logic, this should make me a very worthy prospect for the status of 'friend,' no? Yet I feel no need to make friends (or a need to share my weaknesses and wallow in self-pity - by your explanation the two seem synonymous).

No, I'm saying to experience liking or loving someone you must make an investment in them and in the relationship. Usually this starts in the form of trusting someone enough to let them see the genuine you. Genuine, meaning whatever you are at the core regardless of judgment.

What is it to like someone? It is the emotional return from an emotional investment. Just like you get monetary returns from monetary investments.

As a human being you have resources to give. Time, money, your body, your mind, your emotions. You can invest these resources in various ways and perhaps gain things return. Invest your time and your mind to solving a problem and you might come up with a solution. The solution is your return from the investment. Invest your time and your body to working-out and you'll gain strength, agility, stamina as your returns. In this same way you can invest your time and your emotions to a relationship and experience love and friendship as the return. Like anything worth having, it takes effort.