[MechanicalSun]

Well, according to the article of abc news that Plotthickens is citing , the guy:"had a great sex life with his wife, but as he approached 40, his wife seemed to be reaching sexual satisfaction as he was struggling to climax."

It all from ONE case, with anecdotal evidence. I'm not expert in the field but it didn't take me long to read through the
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to conclude that there are no statistically significant effects of circumcision on sexual pleasure/satisfaction. Under the section Satisfaction one can find a compilation of the works carried out on the subject.[HIDE="Click here to read the referred section."]Satisfaction

Kim and Pang found that 20% reported that their sex life was worse after circumcision and 6% reported that it had improved. They concluded that "there was a decrease ... sexual enjoyment after circumcision, indicating that adult circumcision adversely affects sexual function in many men, possibly because of complications of the surgery and a loss of nerve endings."[35]

Masood et al., in their study mentioned earlier of men circumcised for benign disease, found that 61% reported satisfaction with the results, while 17% felt it made things worse, and 22% expressed neutral sentiments. 44% of the patients (p = 0.04) and 38% of the partners (p = 0.02) thought the penis appearance improved after circumcision. The authors of the study concluded that the satisfaction rate was a 'poor outcome,' given the pre-procedure penile disease state and recommended discussing with prospective patients the results of this study during the informed consent process.[4]

Krieger et al. reported that in a controlled trial of circumcision to reduce HIV incidence in Kisumu, Kenya, in which 1,391 men elected to be circumcised, more than 99% were "satisfied" with their circumcisions.[31]

Kigozi et al. reported finding "no trend in satisfaction among circumcised men". The authors concluded that "[a]dult male circumcision does not adversely affect sexual satisfaction or clinically significant function in men".[34]

Shen et al. reported that adult circumcision appeared to result in improved satisfaction in 34 cases (of 95 adults being circumcised), the association was statistically significant.[28]

Senkul et al. reported that they did not find a statistically significant difference in BMSFI satisfaction scores in their study of 42 adult circumcision patients.[32]

Collins et al. reported on a study of 15 adult circumcision patients. No statistically significant difference in BMSFI scores was observed.[33]

Fink et al. reported improved satisfaction (p=0.04). Half of the circumcised men reported benefits, while 38% reported harm. "Overall, 62% of men were satisfied with having been circumcised." Fink attributes the improved satisfaction to the respondee's aesthetic considerations and to a resolution of previous painful conditions.[5]

Cortés-González et al. found no statistically significant differences in terms of overall sexual satisfaction (p=0.15), pain during intercourse (p=0.23), or enjoyment of intercourse (p=0.32).[7]

Frisch et al. reported that circumcised and uncircumcised men were "equally likely to report incomplete sexual needs fulfilment in the last year".[36]

Peterson reported that, after adult circumcision, 46.4% of men were "very satisfied", 50% were "satisfied" and 3.5% were "very dissatisfied".[39].[/HIDE]

[Fevered Dreams]

Here is the

	"had a great sex life with his wife, but as he approached 40, his wife seemed to be reaching sexual satisfaction as he was struggling to climax."

So are you saying that as men approach 40, they should assume that they will be dead down there? Unless they have very advanced diabetes (or other health problems) and/or are circumcised, that shouldn't be the case.

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have seen no reports of circumcized men being unable to achieve climax.

Have you looked for such reports? Where? I know if a certain body part of mine were malfunctioning, I would extremely reluctant to share that information with others... specially if it would put my womanhood into question.

Also, are you aware that just because a man ejaculates, it doesn't necessarily mean he orgasmed?

But here are some men who
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. People discuss several aspects such as sensitivity, problems orgasming and such.

I'm still really amazed how people are ignoring most of the questions posed. Please, don't be shy, we're all grown ups here
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But the reluctance to answer questions doesn't strike me as surprising, it's much easier to avoid discussing something you don't want to think about, isn't it.

[Nightmare]

	it's much easier to avoid discussing something you don't want to think about, isn't it.

It is for this reason this 'issue' is not considered an 'issue'. It takes people like myself to stand up to the bullshit and claim foul play.

[Fevered Dreams]

	that there are no statistically significant effects of circumcision on sexual pleasure/satisfaction.

Let me tell you just 3 significant effects. Just 3!
- Not being able to climax inside of her (atleast from my experience). How is he going to make babies? Turkey baster? I know circumcised men with children, and I often wonder how they did it. I hope they were able to do it the right way *cringe*
- Making a woman dry, sore, feel like her skin is burning (like when you peel a scab), bleed, in pain for days after the act.
- Why are there so many tips in women's and men's magazines to make sex enjoyable, when intact sex is enjoyable without resorting to tricks? If all these sex tips were necessary, humans wouldn't have made it this far .

[Vagrant]

I was circumcised.

Will I ever know if the circumcision affected my feeling in that region? No.
Will I ever know what pain it caused me as a child? No.
Is it easier to clean and maintain that area? Yes.

Now that said, this isn't exactly a good enough reason to promote a procedure that could possibly lead to an infection, but as far as I see it, the only issue I would have with circumcision is if it's done to somebody older than 2 or 3 years old without their consent. Generally circumcision is done in the first few weeks after birth, and most people don't remember that time.

As for less pleasure? How in the hell would you be able to tell unless you were circumcised as an adult (an unappealing venture I'm sure)?

	- Not being able to climax inside of her (atleast from my experience). How is he going to make babies? Turkey baster? I know circumcised men with children, and I often wonder how they did it. I hope they were able to do it the right way *cringe*

What? That sounds more like a mental issue than anything. I've climaxed inside all of my girlfriends (save 1, but for other reasons). The only reason I haven't climaxed? If my thoughts were troubled. Climax is generally a mental issue, not a physical one. There's a reason one of the tricks to avoiding orgasm as a guy is to start doing math problems in your head during sex.

If your article is to be believed, the man was approaching 40. Well, that most likely means his WIFE WAS ALSO APPROACHING 40. Nothing like sex with old women to make a guy climax!

	Making a woman dry, sore, feel like her skin is burning (like when you peel a scab), bleed, in pain for days after the act.

That sounds more like an issue of lubrication... I've never had a girlfriend who had any of those issues after sex. In fact, one of my girlfriends insisted on nonstop rabbit sex. She never told me of any discomfort with it.

	- Why are there so many tips in women's and men's magazines to make sex enjoyable, when intact sex is enjoyable without resorting to tricks? If all these sex tips were necessary, humans wouldn't have made it this far .

This doesn't even make sense. These tips are trying to increase the other person's pleasure. Society kinda promotes making the other person orgasm. They have almost nothing to do with circumcision.

__________________________________________________



I know that my penis sensitivity varies on a daily basis, depending on several factors:
-How recently I've orgasmed
-Weather conditions (hot/cold, humid/arid)
-Horniness levels
-Random chance

I've experienced my penis varying in sensitivity from "Whack-a-mole" to "OH DEAR GOD I JUST CAME IN 30 SECONDS."

[Fevered Dreams]

	What? That sounds more like a mental issue than anything.

So the circumcised men I dated had mental issues? :P
And the intact men didn't?

	Climax is generally a mental issue, not a physical one.

It can be both mental and physical. Also, I was talking about vaginal sex. And I never said all circumcised men have trouble with it, I only said those I've seen. None of the circumcised men I've been with have been able to make me orgasm (throbbing vaginal walls), which in turns means he couldn't either, since there was no throbbing to bring him to orgasm. I never said they couldn't climax at all, I said they couldn't climax inside of me. Unless I use a gazillion tricks, but then it's a job. I don't want sex to be a job.

	That sounds more like an issue of lubrication...

My lubrication was the same with all partners both intact and not. I'm young, and I'm wet. In fact, I'm so wet I don't even want to talk about it in case you're eating dinner :P
With intact men the wetness stays inside of me, with circumcised men, the wetness goes all over the bed.

	This doesn't even make sense. These tips are trying to increase the other person's pleasure. Society kinda promotes making the other person orgasm. They have almost nothing to do with circumcision.

Yes, but those tips are not necessary with intact men (from my experience), that's why I mentioned it.
With intact men I need no tricks, he needs no tricks, he gets his penis inside of me and we both forget we are just mere mortals
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He doesn't need any tricks to make me orgasm, I don't need any tricks to make him orgasm, we just do!



I don't like this attitude of dismissing other people's problems. Just because you're happy, doesn't mean everyone else is. I'm glad you're happy, I'm really glad, believe me. But that still doesn't answer the question of why parents should circumcise newborns by default. That still doesn't give any reasons why it's a good idea to do so. You mentioned cleanliness, and while it would be cleaner for me as a woman to clean my lady bits if they were simply not there, but no one cut them. Gosh, I'm so angry, I got to spend an extra 10 seconds in the shower that genitally mutilated women. x-P

[Vagrant]

	So the circumcised men I dated had mental issues? :P And the intact men didn't?

Very funny. Orgasm is usually dependent on the state of a person's thoughts at the time. I've had an ex-girlfriend who could orgasm solely on thoughts. It wouldn't be a stretch at all to say the same occurs for men.

It can be both mental and physical. Also, I was talking about vaginal sex. And I never said all circumcised men have trouble with it, I only said those I've seen. None of the circumcised men I've been with have been able to make me orgasm (throbbing vaginal walls), which in turns means he couldn't either, since there was no throbbing to bring him to orgasm. I never said they couldn't climax at all, I said they couldn't climax inside of me. Unless I use a gazillion tricks, but then it's a job. I don't want sex to be a job.

There's a lot of variables in these events then -- but somehow it seems unlikely to me that circumcision is the only difference. Here's a couple possibilities I can think of:

• Penis size/girth
• Emotional/Mental issues at the time. Religious thoughts? School bothering them? Etc
• Skill of the guy (makes a larger difference than you think)
• Experience
• Foreplay (relating back to skill and experience)

	My lubrication was the same with all partners both intact and not. I'm young, and I'm wet. In fact, I'm so wet I don't even want to talk about it in case you're eating dinner :P

Hah, you're also a flirt too.
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	With intact men the wetness stays inside of me, with circumcised men, the wetness goes all over the bed.

That would make sense as the extra skin would create a sort of... "seal" but I wonder if that lack of orgasm you mentioned would contribute to significantly longer, and therefore more painful, sex?

	He doesn't need any tricks to make me orgasm, I don't need any tricks to make him orgasm, we just do!

You're actually a lucky girl too, just to let you know. Some women I've dated couldn't orgasm at all, some women could orgasm at the drop of a hat. I would also bring up the issue of mental orgasm as well here, but I'm not going to presume your thoughts.

	I don't like this attitude of dismissing other people's problems. Just because you're happy, doesn't mean everyone else is.

I'm not actually dismissing them -- what I'm saying is that personal anecdotes in a conversation such as this are generally irrelevant. As indicated by prior posts, there's no strong evidence that there's a difference in the experiences of men who are circumsized or not circumcised.

	But that still doesn't answer the question of why parents should circumcise newborns by default.

Often they don't even make the choice. Sometimes medical professionals will do the procedure without asking the parents.

	You mentioned cleanliness, and while it would be cleaner for me as a woman to clean my lady bits if they were simply not there, but no one cut them.

Sometimes it makes a world of difference. Some of the men I know don't care of themselves particularly well -- which with foreskin would mean an increased risk for infections (warm, humid environment with moderate protection from the outside world). But that's usually only a problem for men who are slobs.

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If your article is to be believed, the man was approaching 40. Well, that most likely means his WIFE WAS ALSO APPROACHING 40. Nothing like sex with old women to make a guy climax!

Yes, of course, it's the woman's fault in appearance that he couldn't cum.

[Vagrant]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes, of course, it's the woman's fault in appearance that he couldn't cum.

Makes about as much sense as blaming circumcision.

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Makes about as much sense as blaming circumcision.

Well, one of those reasons was blamed by the people involved, and the other reason was only cited by you. By the way, I'm approaching 40 and my sexlife is MAGNIFICENT.

I mean, smokin' hot. Like, HOLY SHIT DID I PASS OUT??? And he's liking it too. So your theory isn't really universal. at all.

So thanks for insinuating that it is the woman's responsibility for the man's orgasm, and that anything that goes wrong with the orgasm cannot be the penis' fault, and insinuating that a woman must be perfect for her man just in case he wants sex. All those things are so ridiculous.

But I'm willing to cut you slack because, frankly, this topic cuts close to home. Many circumcised men are unwilling to discuss the possibility that their sex life isn't what it could be, nor is their penis doing what it could be. I understand that there must be an enormous level of uncomfortableness in this for many circumcised men.

But until you can prove that this man and this woman were lying when they said what they said (four or five times) and prove that the reason is OMIGOD SHE'S SO OLDUGLY AT 40 UGGGHHH CAN'T CUM!!!!!!!!, you're talking out your ass.

[Fevered Dreams]

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Very funny. Orgasm is usually dependent on the state of a person's thoughts at the time.

So the 40 year old with the "ugly 40 year old woman" should be able to climax, right? :P Just adjust his thoughts.

	There's a lot of variables in these events then.

I don't know about penis size, it's not one of the priorities in my mind, though I prefer smaller. Girth: you're on to something. I like girth. Foreskin adds girth. Emotional: was in love with all of them. Skill of the guy: none needed. Get on top of me, put your penis inside of me. I wouldn't call this skill, I'd call it having a functioning brain ^^ Some were virgins, for some I was the 2nd partner, and some were experienced. There is no experience needed, just get your penis inside of me. Hhhmm.... Two of the intact men I were with were virgins. For one of them I was a virgin too. No skills were needed, he got inside of me and we played for a bit, and we orgasmed. The rest of them (intact or circ) were not virgins.

	Hah, you're also a flirt too. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

What do you mean?

	That would make sense as the extra skin would create a sort of... "seal" but I wonder if that lack of orgasm you mentioned would contribute to significantly longer, and therefore more painful, sex?

Yes, but longer sex with intact men doesn't hurt me, when we chose to make it last.
But I think the main difference is 1) friction, intact man is mostly rubbing against his foreskin, not against my vagina 2) that circ guys (again, in my experience!) need to have sex as if they were a drill, and the intact guys (again, in my experience!) need to go slow, even when we climax we're still going slow. Really slow. I bet circumcised guys couldn't imagine how it's possible to orgasm when going so slow.

Same with oral sex or giving him a hand. The intact men: I use his foreskin to massage his penis, slowly, and yes, they climax. The circumcised men (that I've been with): I can't even figure out how to do it, it makes no sense. They need to go so fast it's like he's drilling a hole. And it seems I'm going to yank his penis away. It makes me feel disgusting so I don't do it for cut guys.

	You're actually a lucky girl too, just to let you know. Some women I've dated couldn't orgasm at all, some women could orgasm at the drop of a hat.

If I'd never been with intact men, I would have guessed I'm a woman who can't orgasm!

	I'm not actually dismissing them -- what I'm saying is that personal anecdotes in a conversation such as this are generally irrelevant. As indicated by prior posts, there's no strong evidence that there's a difference in the experiences of men who are circumsized or not circumcised.

The studies linked above are also anecdotes. How do you suggest we gather evidence in an objective way? Maybe circumcise dogs or livestock and see what happens? I might ask a farmer about that. (yes, embarrassing ^^)

	Often they don't even make the choice. Sometimes medical professionals will do the procedure without asking the parents.

Yes, indeed! That's one of the reasons I feel so strongly about this issue. Even if the parents chose to, they just do it because that's "what you're supposed to do". It's so sad...!

	Sometimes it makes a world of difference. Some of the men I know don't care of themselves particularly well -- which with foreskin would mean an increased risk for infections

The same is true for women, isn't it? We learn from mistakes. If I work in the garden I scrub my nails before cooking. That's life.

	But that's usually only a problem for men who are slobs.

And those without healthy facilities, some people don't have drinkable water! But that's not the case in USA.

[Samson86]

	Originally Posted by Fevered Dreams To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That's what circumcised men are taught. But if you are intact and you have sex with a woman, you don't have to try to please her, your intact penis automatically pleases her. You both orgasm at the same time, as his intact penis makes her orgasm, he orgasms from the contractions of her vaginal walls. It just happens. You don't have to consciously make sure she is pleased first.

Just curious? so unbeknownst to myself all these years people have been giving me the sex advice because somehow they knew i had a circumcised penis? ok oh hey that guy over there is circumcised lets give him circumcised sex advice because guys that are intact don't need to do anything and can make all women magically come just by inserting there penis in there and doing nothing...take pity on the weirdo he must have a horrible horrible sex life. -_-

	Originally Posted by Fevered Dreams To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Can you imagine a male dog thinking "Oh, I better be sure I please her first, so we can make puppies!" Of course not, he doesn't have to since he's intact.

No i cannot imagine that because last time i checked i am pretty sure dogs aren't humans and are instinctual self serving creatures.

	Originally Posted by Fevered Dreams To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What does it matter if the majority of circumcised men have problems? Why should circumcision should have been done in the first place? Assume I mean people who are not religious. If one in ten people had problems, how is that any different than 9 in 10 having problems, 1 person in 10 is one too many having problems. Could you reply to this. After you do, I will be more than happy to post links.

Majority of men with circumcision have problems...where is the links because if you are just talking from personal experience then i can say from my personal experience all my mates that are circumcised are fine and don't have any problems.

	Originally Posted by Fevered Dreams To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes. No. I told you before. Jeez, sorry that I assumed decent human beings care about other people's wellbeing.

so you are saying that i am not a decent human being let me say this takes one to know one.

[zibber]

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	[A] Will I ever know if the circumcision affected my feeling in that region? No. [B] Is it easier to clean and maintain that area? Yes.

You don't know A, because you don't have a foreskin.

How can you possibly know B?

---------- Post added 05-04-2012 at 10:15 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Makes about as much sense as blaming circumcision.

"Circumcisions remove 80% or more of the male erogenous nerve endings."

For me, this is not about shaming or somehow stigmatizing circumcized people. I just think it's important to expose myths about circumcision and have an honest conversation about that practice. I understand the opposition from circumcized people and those who have been trained (sorry) to experience disgust at the sight of uncircumcized penises, but it simply must be repeated again and again that removing such a significant amount of erogenous nerve endings from a sexual organ greatly affects one's sexual experience.

For circumcized people, it's too late. That sucks, but it doesn't mean you should promote untruths. People who simply don't like the look of real dicks, I don't even know what the hell you're all about. To be frank: if your sexual pleasure depends on something that is merely aesthetic to you, yet greatly diminishing the other's capacity for erogenous stimulation, you need to take a moment and think about your fucking world view.

[Vagrant]

Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Well, one of those reasons was blamed by the people involved, and the other reason was only cited by you. By the way, I'm approaching 40 and my sexlife is MAGNIFICENT. I mean, smokin' hot. Like, HOLY SHIT DID I PASS OUT??? And he's liking it too. So your theory isn't really universal. at all. So thanks for insinuating that it is the woman's responsibility for the man's orgasm, and that anything that goes wrong with the orgasm cannot be the penis' fault, and insinuating that a woman must be perfect for her man just in case he wants sex. All those things are so ridiculous.

Your overreaction is funny. Did I imply that you were unattractive somehow? Because your reaction suggests that.

	But I'm willing to cut you slack because, frankly, this topic cuts close to home. Many circumcised men are unwilling to discuss the possibility that their sex life isn't what it could be, nor is their penis doing what it could be. I understand that there must be an enormous level of uncomfortableness in this for many circumcised men.

"Isn't what it could be"?

What? There's no procedure to reattach foreskin.

	Girth: you're on to something. I like girth

Most girls do, I've found. Basically hitting all the spots on the vaginal walls with increased girth. Some men are fortunate to have girth, some are not. Foreskin may help slightly in this respect.

	Skill of the guy: none needed. Get on top of me, put your penis inside of me. I wouldn't call this skill, I'd call it having a functioning brain

Your sexual appetite seems relatively simple to please. However, skill does make a large difference in my experience (bad pun, sorry).

	Yes, but longer sex with intact men doesn't hurt me, when we chose to make it last.

My point was that "seal" or "plug" created by the foreskin keeps the lubrication inside -- which thus makes longer sex just as lubricated with men who are intact. As you mentioned, the lubrication slips out with circumcised men -- the result is irritating friction the longer the sex goes on.

	I bet circumcised guys couldn't imagine how it's possible to orgasm when going so slow.

Slow is extremely sensitive for me. *shrug*

	The studies linked above are also anecdotes. How do you suggest we gather evidence in an objective way? Maybe circumcise dogs or livestock and see what happens? I might ask a farmer about that. (yes, embarrassing ^^)

Wait... how are studies anecdotes? Now you're just being confusing.

	You don't know A, because you don't have a foreskin.

Reread what I said again: "Will I ever know if the circumcision affected my feeling in that region? No."

	How can you possibly know B?

Compare an image of an intact penis to a circumcised penis. It would be a hard run to prove to me that the intact penis is easier to clean.
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.

	"Circumcisions remove 80% or more of the male erogenous nerve endings."

Forgive me if I don't see the source on that.

	For circumcized people, it's too late. That sucks, but it doesn't mean you should promote untruths

Untruths? I've said that circumcision hasn't caused me any problems (true) and helps with simpler hygiene (true). Multiple studies haven't shown any kind of conclusive evidence about the sexual effects.

How is that promoting untruths?

[INTJRyan]

Originally Posted by Fevered Dreams To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Let me tell you just 3 significant effects. Just 3! - Not being able to climax inside of her (atleast from my experience). How is he going to make babies? Turkey baster? I know circumcised men with children, and I often wonder how they did it. I hope they were able to do it the right way *cringe* - Making a woman dry, sore, feel like her skin is burning (like when you peel a scab), bleed, in pain for days after the act. - Why are there so many tips in women's and men's magazines to make sex enjoyable, when intact sex is enjoyable without resorting to tricks? If all these sex tips were necessary, humans wouldn't have made it this far .

I get your experience and all, but do you really believe that circumcised men can't ejaculate into a vagina?

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Your overreaction is funny. Did I imply that you were unattractive somehow? Because your reaction suggests that.

You implied that the sex lives of older women are not as happy as those of younger.

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My point was that "seal" or "plug" created by the foreskin keeps the lubrication inside -- which thus makes longer sex just as lubricated with men who are intact. As you mentioned, the lubrication slips out with circumcised men -- the result is irritating friction the longer the sex goes on.

The foreskin does not 'keep lubrication inside', that's silly. Do you think the glans is some kind of lube-velcro, and that the prepuce is as enveloping on an erect penis? The foreskin allows the skin of the shaft to move freely, thus reducing friction and therefore reducing the need for lube.

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Compare an image of an intact penis to a circumcised penis. It would be a hard run to prove to me that the intact penis is easier to clean. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .

Already debunked. It's hard to read a whole thread, isn't it?


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	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Forgive me if I don't see the source on that.

VERY difficult to read a whole thread, apparently.


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To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Untruths? I've said that circumcision hasn't caused me any problems (true) and leads to better hygiene (true). Multiple studies haven't shown any kind of conclusive evidence yet one way or the other. How is that promoting untruths?

It appears that reading this thread on your own has proven unrecoverably difficult. Let me know if you need me to point you towards anything else.

[Vagrant]

	You implied that the sex lives of older women are not as happy as those of younger.

I implied that it was possible the middle-aged man was no longer physically attracted to his middle-aged wife.

	The foreskin does not 'keep lubrication inside', that's silly. Do you think the glans is some kind of lube-velcro, and that the prepuce is as enveloping on an erect penis? The foreskin allows the skin of the shaft to move freely, thus reducing friction and therefore reducing the need for lube.

*shrug* Just going off of Fevered Dreams' comments.

	Already debunked. It's hard to read a whole thread, isn't it? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Your links in those posts are to some very biased websites.

As I said:

"Is it easier to clean and maintain that area? Yes.

Now that said, this isn't exactly a good enough reason to promote a procedure that could possibly lead to an infection[...]"

	VERY difficult to read a whole thread, apparently. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Clicked as many links as I could and CTRL+F'ed "80%" as much as I could. All I found was that the foreskin encompasses 80% of the penis' area. That's nice. But that's not 80% of the neurons.

	It appears that reading this thread on your own has proven unrecoverably difficult. Let me know if you need me to point you towards anything else.

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[Fevered Dreams]

@Samson:
I will address the questions you posed to me after you answer the questions I posed to you. It's not a fair game when one person keeps ignoring the questions.

	Your sexual appetite seems relatively simple to please. However, skill does make a large difference in my experience (bad pun, sorry).

It's simple to please... if intact. You ignored everything I said about skill and experience... wow, how convenient for your arguments!

	Wait... how are studies anecdotes? Now you're just being confusing.

How were the studies linked to above performed?

	I get your experience and all, but do you really believe that circumcised men can't ejaculate into a vagina?

Oh god, I hope they can. I truly hope they can. I refuse to believe they can't, even considering my experience. That would be too cruel a world.

...

And about the 40 year old woman... my mother had 6 children and breastfed them all. She was a farm wife, so her body was pretty beat up from hard work. She was thick-set (strong). Her legs were nearly purple from all the varicose veins. Saggy breasts from breastfeeding. Wrinkles from age and the sun exposure. Stretch marks. Anyway, my parents were at an old age when they made my 2 siblings and I, the youngest children. Clearly it wasn't a problem that she was "old and ugly" as you say. ^^ Bet they would have had more children, but my mom's menopause put and end to that.

	Untruths? I've said that circumcision hasn't caused me any problems (true) and helps with simpler hygiene (true). Multiple studies haven't shown any kind of conclusive evidence about the sexual effects.

My experiences say otherwise. The experiences of those on the forum I linked to say otherwise. Even the wikipedia page cited say some were not pleased with the changes. The person above cited the references that supported his claims (and I could do the same if I wanted to, which is why I don't play the study game. So instead, read up the whole page and see for yourself.
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And I will ask, one more time: if circumcisions should be done so it's easier to keep clean, why don't we do the same to women? Since are more likely than men to get infections, and our lady bits are a lot more difficult to clean.

	The foreskin does not 'keep lubrication inside', that's silly. Do you think the glans is some kind of lube-velcro, and that the prepuce is as enveloping on an erect penis? The foreskin allows the skin of the shaft to move freely, thus reducing friction and therefore reducing the need for lube. *shrug* Just going off of Fevered Dreams' comments.

Circumcised men pull their penis all the way out and all the way in during sex. It seems that nearly all his penis comes out. I have to keep pushing his butt down so he'll stay close to me. Even after I tell him 5 times if he could stay close to me, he keeps pulling away from me (I don't blame him, I know he needs to do that to feel pleasure, but I can't enjoy it if he does that). Intact men's penis mostly stays inside during sex, I never need to tell him to stay close to me, because he simply does, since it's what feels good to him. Yes, he goes in and out, but not as far as circumcised guys. If you don't understand how that would help moisture stay inside, then nothing we say will make you understand ^^

[Ray9]

Originally Posted by Fevered Dreams To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Circumcised men pull their penis all the way out and all the way in during sex. It seems that nearly all his penis comes out. I have to keep pushing his butt down so he'll stay close to me. Even after I tell him 5 times if he could stay close to me, he keeps pulling away from me (I don't blame him, I know he needs to do that to feel pleasure, but I can't enjoy it if he does that). Intact men's penis mostly stays inside during sex, I never need to tell him to stay close to me, because he simply does, since it's what feels good to him. Yes, he goes in and out, but not as far as circumcised guys. If you don't understand how that would help moisture stay inside, then nothing we say will make you understand ^^

Thank you Dr. Laidlaw for not cutting my foreskin. Uncut men are the best lovers. Just ask your wife.
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[Storm]

Originally Posted by Fevered Dreams To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Let me tell you just 3 significant effects. Just 3! - Not being able to climax inside of her (atleast from my experience). How is he going to make babies? Turkey baster? I know circumcised men with children, and I often wonder how they did it. I hope they were able to do it the right way *cringe* - Making a woman dry, sore, feel like her skin is burning (like when you peel a scab), bleed, in pain for days after the act. - Why are there so many tips in women's and men's magazines to make sex enjoyable, when intact sex is enjoyable without resorting to tricks? If all these sex tips were necessary, humans wouldn't have made it this far .

Oh please. Circumcised men can't ejaculate inside a vagina? And women who have sex with circumcised men "bleed in pain for days." This is a laughable claim.

Really? You think that tips on sex wouldn't exist without circumcision. One just has to point at the karma sutra to show that's not true.

[Othesemo]

	Originally Posted by Fevered Dreams To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	<snip a variety of anecdotes>

As much as I approve of the sentiment, your factual accuracy is a bit off. Anecdotes != empirical evidence, and aren't really ideal material for sweeping generalization. Especially when actual empirical data is pretty inconclusive on the subject.

That said, I maintain that circumcision should be the choice of the male in question- not the parents. Parents can chose the child's clothes or food, fine, but not whether or not to chop of the tip of his dick.

[Thinktress]

Here's the deal. Removal of foreskin may slightly reduce sensitivity. It appears to be a largely cultural and religious observance. Medically, there are some pros and cons to circumcision. Among the cons:


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"There is a higher risk of gonorrhea and inflammation of the urethra (the tube that carries the urine from the bladder outside) in uncircumcised men. It has also been reported that other sexually-transmitted diseases (such as chancroid, syphilis, human papillomavirus, and herpes simplex virus type 2 infection) are more frequent in uncircumcised men. As mentioned above, most recently three large studies performed in Africa documented that circumcision was protective with respect to the acquisition of HIV infection as compared to those uncircumcised subjects"

When it came to my own child, I talked to the pediatrician about it. He felt that uncircumcised men would be fine medically if they practiced good hygeine. He said that ultimately, boys usually feel more comfortable if their penises are "like" their father's and like those of other boys their age. My son's father was circumcised and we lived in an area with a very high circumcision rate. So my son was circumcised. However, I did have the doctor give him a local prior to the circumcision. I just don't agree with doing it without anesthesia of any type.

p.s. My son is 24 now and if it was his choice he would have wanted the circumcision (I've asked).

Also, for whoever said that uncircumcised men cannot ejaculate inside women? I've got a little experience with this sort of thing. Cut, uncut, they both work the same way. Also, female orgasm is not contingent upon the circumcisional status of the male (Unless you just have some type of foreskin fetish). Personally, I don't find there to be much difference.

[mieu]

	Originally Posted by Thinktress To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	p.s. My son is 24 now and if it was his choice he would have wanted the circumcision (I've asked).

I'm sincerely not trying to imply anything negative about your son, but from an ethics standpoint, I can't see where this kind of thing really stands as evidence when the practice is culturally pervasive. Women in India would willingly throw themselves onto their husband's funeral pyre to fulfill the rite of Sati. Nowadays women in middle-east nations will
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to save their brothers from jail-time that would result from honor-killing. Extreme, huh? Just because people do things and agree with things that are social norms doesn't mean that they're ethically the best thing to do. It's a hard habit to kick. Bah-ram-ewe.

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by Thinktress To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Here's the deal. Removal of foreskin may slightly reduce sensitivity. It appears to be a largely cultural and religious observance. Medically, there are some pros and cons to circumcision. Among the cons: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "There is a higher risk of gonorrhea and inflammation of the urethra (the tube that carries the urine from the bladder outside) in uncircumcised men. It has also been reported that other sexually-transmitted diseases (such as chancroid, syphilis, human papillomavirus, and herpes simplex virus type 2 infection) are more frequent in uncircumcised men. As mentioned above, most recently three large studies performed in Africa documented that circumcision was protective with respect to the acquisition of HIV infection as compared to those uncircumcised subjects" When it came to my own child, I talked to the pediatrician about it. He felt that uncircumcised men would be fine medically if they practiced good hygeine. He said that ultimately, boys usually feel more comfortable if their penises are "like" their father's and like those of other boys their age. My son's father was circumcised and we lived in an area with a very high circumcision rate. So my son was circumcised. However, I did have the doctor give him a local prior to the circumcision. I just don't agree with doing it without anesthesia of any type. p.s. My son is 24 now and if it was his choice he would have wanted the circumcision (I've asked). Also, for whoever said that uncircumcised men cannot ejaculate inside women? I've got a little experience with this sort of thing. Cut, uncut, they both work the same way. Also, female orgasm is not contingent upon the circumcisional status of the male (Unless you just have some type of foreskin fetish). Personally, I don't find there to be much difference.

Clearly you don't understand human anatomy.

[LadySpock]

Circumcision is good for the economy