[Savagelight]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Perhaps we should raise the age for voting and military service accordingly. It seems unfair to send children to do such bloody business.

Honestly you're correct. The brain doesn't complete it's development until age 24 but the laws say 18.

With regard to the military it's a very interesting question but I'd say the physical peak of a human is 16-24. I think they could lower the age honestly for military service. I think for voting you have a stronger argument. An 18 year old wont know enough about how the world works nor will they typically have the brain to develop a concept of "self interest".

For the most part 18 year olds would be wise to vote for whoever their parents are voting for until they have enough of an understanding and education to vote more wisely. In my case I know I'm voting for Obama not because I'm an irrational kid, but because I know it's in my self interest.

It's best of Americans vote in their self interest and sadly even most adults don't vote or act in their self interest. Social conservatives are a perfect example, these are adults who vote on faith and belief and "culture war" crap.

	Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What about simply setting an IQ threshold of say, 140, tested every 5 years. While this would have some interesting consequences--virtually no blacks would be permitted to vote, and the influence of Jews and East Asians would rise dramatically, it would allow some people to vote throughout their natural lives. And who knows--better choices might be made at the polling places...

It's apparent you aren't in a high IQ society. I am and I've seen all races fairly represented.

And this is despite the fact that the IQ tests are biased towards white westerners. What you are confusing IQ with is college admission rates. There are more Jews and East Asians in ivy league schools than probably any other group but this doesn't mean IQ score = admission to Harvard and Yale.

Finally IQ is a stupid way to determine who should vote. Someone can have a high IQ and be very irrational. You have people with high IQ's who will vote for Palin, or who believe climate change is a hoax, or who believe God is talking to them and telling them who to vote for, or who believe Alex Jones is watching their back. I think you get my point.

[Megalomania]

	Originally Posted by Savagelight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's apparent you aren't in a high IQ society. I am and I've seen all races fairly represented.

If you were really in a high IQ society I would hope you would know the above means absolutely nothing as far as the distribution of IQ scores among races.

[AnotherAvatar]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Perhaps we should raise the age for voting and military service accordingly. It seems unfair to send children to do such bloody business.

You nailed it. So imagine that the logic of this was applied in real life..

Now convince a bunch of 24 year olds to run up the beach against machine gun fire, in a place of little consequence, for questionable political value.

I was laughing with a friend about the prospect of drill instructors pushing around 40 year old guys if a draft was applied. The DI would get his ass kicked, plain and simple. You can push kids around, but not adults.

[Savagelight]

	Originally Posted by Megalomania To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If you were really in a high IQ society I would hope you would know the above means absolutely nothing as far as the distribution of IQ scores among races.

So if we were to test the IQ of Barack Obama what race is he? What about Tiger Woods?

IQ by race is BS because race as we believe it to be is bs. It's true certain cultures generate better students or higher IQ scores but that could have to do with certain cultures valuing school more, valuing the IQ test more, or being in psychiatry so they can design the IQ tests.

Even then you find that IQ isn't distributed according to "race". If it were then the IQ test should be renamed the cultural test.

Originally Posted by AnotherAvatar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You nailed it. So imagine that the logic of this was applied in real life.. Now convince a bunch of 24 year olds to run up the beach against machine gun fire, in a place of little consequence, for questionable political value. I was laughing with a friend about the prospect of drill instructors pushing around 40 year old guys if a draft was applied. The DI would get his ass kicked, plain and simple. You can push kids around, but not adults.

If the kids want money for food then they have to be the governments bitch. That is generally how it works in society.

[AnotherAvatar]

	Originally Posted by Savagelight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If the kids want money for food then they have to be the governments bitch. That is generally how it works in society.

The military has been called the modern version of indentured servitude.

[Megalomania]

	Originally Posted by Savagelight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So if we were to test the IQ of Barack Obama what race is he? What about Tiger Woods?

Once again you fail to understand the concept of averages and distributions.

Oh and Tiger Woods? What the hell? That's the example of an intelligent black man you choose? Not Neil Degrasse-Tyson or Thomas Sowell...but Tiger Woods.

	Even then you find that IQ isn't distributed according to "race". If it were then the IQ test should be renamed the cultural test.

Can you say non sequitur?

[Ray9]

Originally Posted by Savagelight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Honestly you're correct. The brain doesn't complete it's development until age 24 but the laws say 18. With regard to the military it's a very interesting question but I'd say the physical peak of a human is 16-24. I think they could lower the age honestly for military service. I think for voting you have a stronger argument. An 18 year old wont know enough about how the world works nor will they typically have the brain to develop a concept of "self interest". For the most part 18 year olds would be wise to vote for whoever their parents are voting for until they have enough of an understanding and education to vote more wisely. In my case I know I'm voting for Obama not because I'm an irrational kid, but because I know it's in my self interest. It's best of Americans vote in their self interest and sadly even most adults don't vote or act in their self interest. Social conservatives are a perfect example, these are adults who vote on faith and belief and "culture war" crap. It's apparent you aren't in a high IQ society. I am and I've seen all races fairly represented. And this is despite the fact that the IQ tests are biased towards white westerners. What you are confusing IQ with is college admission rates. There are more Jews and East Asians in ivy league schools than probably any other group but this doesn't mean IQ score = admission to Harvard and Yale. Finally IQ is a stupid way to determine who should vote. Someone can have a high IQ and be very irrational. You have people with high IQ's who will vote for Palin, or who believe climate change is a hoax, or who believe God is talking to them and telling them who to vote for, or who believe Alex Jones is watching their back. I think you get my point.

Congratulations on being a member of a high IQ society. If it is Mensa then you are in the top two percent. Why would you make a point of this? Is it to suggest that the point of view of the writer you cite is invalid because he/she is not a member of a high IQ society? You continue by making opinionated statements discrediting the validity of IQ scores. You seem to make a heated argument against your own opinion that a high IQ is more valid than a lower one. The term "irrational" is used which is fitting for the format of your argument. You have quite convincingly identified your thought process as irrational so when you expand your irrationality to convey the notion that high-IQ, irrational individuals vote for Palin or support the belief that climate change is a hoax, you are in essence saying they are rational and correct. I'm glad we agree on this.

[eagleseven]

	Originally Posted by AnotherAvatar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was laughing with a friend about the prospect of drill instructors pushing around 40 year old guys if a draft was applied. The DI would get his ass kicked, plain and simple. You can push kids around, but not adults.

In situations where 40-year-olds were drafted, they listened to bullying DIs because learning military skills was critical to personal survival. See the British, German, and Russian home guards in WWII.

[AnotherAvatar]

	Originally Posted by eagleseven To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In situations where 40-year-olds were drafted, they listened to bullying DIs because learning military skills was critical to personal survival. See the British, German, and Russian home guards in WWII.

70 years ago.

[eagleseven]

	Originally Posted by AnotherAvatar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	70 years ago.

If NYC today was being regularly bombed like London in the Battle for Britain, you bet your ass the older men would listen to the DI barking out AA orders.


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Hell, how did old New Yorkers respond to 9/11? Did they refuse to listen to firefighter and police orders while the towers were coming down?

[Megalomania]

	Originally Posted by AnotherAvatar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	70 years ago.

Good call. War is over (if you want it).

[Polymath20]

All I can say is that yes, I agree that I was still growing and maturing at 24. But, I would say that youthful idealism is important to society. It is often irrational, and is usually tempered with experience. Even so, the world is already run by waspy old farts, so what does it matter if idealistic youth get to vote?

[AlfredSchnittke]

What are the arguments against having an IQ threshold for voting?

[thod]

At some point, the period of life remaining does not justify the cost for acquiring new skills. This point could be defined as adulthood.

[INTelliJent]

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What are the arguments against having an IQ threshold for voting?

IQ is relative, and any such measuring system would be inherently subjective.

[Harmony]

A paper I wrote several years ago contained a reference with that tid bit of information about the brain not being fully developed until 22-24. In my husband's case, if he wouldn't have been able to enter into the military while he was a senior in high school, he wouldn't have been able to go to college (at least not full time). The tuition assistance from the military was the only way he could afford to go to school.

I know this is mainly a US thing, but what about legal drinking ages? Should we adjust those? Would that help prevent DUI/DWIs? If you start adjusting things like voting and age you can enlist, you are opening the door for people to cry about making a lot of other changes as well.