[davai]

	Originally Posted by scorpiomover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	These scientifici studies weren't literally reading your mind. They were seeing that certain brain activities were present, using fMRI scans, and then a few seconds later, a particular action was taken, such as pressing a button using your left or right hand. These were found to be correlated, and thus assumed to be causative.

Maybe, the results are intriguing but I agree that more knowledge in needed in this area. For an alternative way of contemplating our argument, well this is easy, i'll refer to Angelina's comment below....

	Originally Posted by angelina To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My intention was not to question or humiliate those who don't think, but I was asking how it really is to not think. I know we can't know it until we stop thinking..so I was wondering if it is possible to not think To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. lol

It's possible, but not easy and pretty soon the mind is once again taken over by automatic thinking, try it and see how long it takes. So it's a limited ability and I'd venture to guess it's not type related, being part of the human condition, though type may very well indicate some of the content and structure.

So scorpiomover, your assertion that we are the 'master of our brain' should be taken with a pinch of salt. It's a trainable skill, I would say that much, but not a god given right, and may never be absolute in terms of the degree of control.

[Daoist]

	Originally Posted by angelina To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My intention was not to question or humiliate those who don't think, but I was asking how it really is to not think. I know we can't know it until we stop thinking..so I was wondering if it is possible to not think To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. lol

But you're a person, not a rock. What makes you so motivated to know what life is like for a rock?

[Disillusioned]

Originally Posted by angelina To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

What to do? I didn't chose to be born, I couldn't even chose my gender! Many things would be easer for me if I was a man! I was thrown into this stupid hopeless world, without my own permission/will! lol To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I can't kill myself for these reasons: family, I just can't hurt them since they've been through alot already, suicide hurts To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , and what if there really is a God, afterlife? This is why I say I can't exist, bcs if there is something on the other side then I will live there too, hhaha, probably in hell just cuz I doubt God's existence haha! BUT I am generally a good person To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. A letter to God/Universer/Existence: yes this world is beautiful, how the human body and mind works like a machine, is facinating! Look at the moon, the sun, the stars, the animals, the whole creation, amazing! BUt please erase me from existense! Nothing in this world can fill this void in my heart! Not even God himself...I wasn't mean to exist! My problem is not that I have a hard life or something, it's just that I can't stand this shitty meaningless world anymore! I'm just fooling myself into thinking that i'm a "truthseeker" and that's actually the strongest thing that keeps me going, but the truth is there is no truth! I have superficial knowledge about existence theories ..so one of "my" theory is that the abrahamic god exists and maybe islam might be the truth, but that small amount of agnostics and atheist are trying to hide the truth from the rest of the world! lol conspiracy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I'm really not good at explaining my thoughts! To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hmm, there's a lot here. And a lot of things come to my mind.

No, you did not choose to be born or in what place or in what time but that does not mean that you do not have free will. This is a concept in existentialism called facticity. Facticity is the circumstances of your existence whether that be your past, your body, your surroundings. For instance, someone cannot will to run as fast as a cheetah because they are restricted by a body that is human and thus limited in certain ways, one of which is the inability run 70 mph. Furthermore, a woman cannot will to be a man or a man a woman, or an 80 yr old to be young or a man whose lost a limb to have it back again. We must accept our facticity or the limits of our existence and exert our will to the best of our ability within the circumstances we find ourselves, whether those were our own doing or otherwise. So too the past is part of who we are but we are more than our past. To say that one is only one’s past would be to ignore a large part of reality (the present and the future), yet to deny ones past completely would constitute an inauthentic lifestyle. One must remember that though the past is part of who you are, it does not define who you must be. An example of this is two men who have spent their lives murdering and stealing. One gets in a car accident and loses his memory. This man goes on to live a normal life while the other man believes himself constrained by his past actions to continue to murder and steal because he believes that he cannot change who he is now. The point is to show that we must remain cognizant of our free will which gives us the potential to change our life or the path we are leading at any moment if we merely make the decision. Thus facticity is both a limit and a condition of free will.

One finds oneself in despair when he/she comes into conflict with who he is. For instance, a runner who loses his legs is now limited by his facticity but may not be able to accept this because it conflicts with his self-image of who he is (or was). Kierkegaard states that their are two main forms of despair, 'the will to be oneself' and 'the will not to be oneself'. Is it possible for me not to be myself? Or as the question is posed in I Heart Huckabees 'How am I not myself?' The answer is by failing to act authentically with your true self. Authenticity requires that one act in accordance with ones 'true self' as opposed to acting the way one believes others want one to act or acting the way one believes one 'should' act. For if you let the perceived judgments of others determine your actions, how can you really say you are being yourself? One can despair to be oneself when they get caught up in trying to be someone they think others want them to be. One can despair not to be oneself when they want to be someone they are not. For instance, if one thinks or longs to be Julius Caesar or Napoleon he may despair over the fact that he is not. The first person despairs over longing to be who they are while the second person despairs over longing not to be who they are.

You cannot exist or not exist (if you exist, you exist) you can merely succeed or fail to be yourself and thus you may despair over your existence.

Though, the question of suicide is a relevant one and not something that should be taboo but should be looked at and addressed philosophically.

Existentialists hold that the world has no intrinsic meaning, this is the notion of absurdity, the notion that anything can happen to anyone at anytime. The world does not judge 'good people' or 'bad things', what happens happens for no other reason than that. Thus, it is absurd to ask something like 'why do bad things happen to good people?' the answer is that we are merely agents of free will acting on one another. A good person who has never harmed anyone else in their life can be killed in a car crash, people ask why? Because someone else chose to drive carelessly and they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, nothing else. The absurd is the frustration someone faces when they realize the absurdity of reality. The world's not fair. It's not fair that Japan got hit by a tsunami, it's not fair that Haiti got destroyed by an earthquake. What did they do to deserve it? This question is absurd, the world knows nothing of fairness or what people deserve, things merely happen. Some are in our control, others are not.

How does one deal with this apparent meaninglessness? Albert Camus wrote:

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide."

In The Myth of Sisyphus which serves as the final section of Camus' contemplation on absurdity and suicide he presents the ancient Greek myth of Sisyphus who is forced to push a boulder up a hill for all eternity only to have it fall to the bottom again when it reaches the top. This is the analogy he presents to the absurdity of life, that our short existence on this small rock in this tiny section of a single galaxy in one feint corner of the universe when compared to the entirety of existence means nothing, changes nothing. Camus writes:

"If the decent is sometimes performed in sorrow, it can also take place in joy. The word is not too much. Again I fancy Sisyphus returning toward his rock, and the sorrow was in the beginning. When the images of earth cling too tightly to memory, when the call of happiness becomes too insistent, it happens that melancholy rises in man's heart: this is the rocks victory, this is the rock itself... Happiness and the absurd are two sons of the same earth. They are inseparable. It would be a mistake to say that happiness necessarily springs from the absurd discovery. It happens as well that the feeling of the absurd springs from happiness. "I conclude that all is well," says Edipus, and that remark is sacred. It echoes in the wild and limited universe of man. It teaches that all is not, has not been, exhausted. It drives out of this world a god who had come into it with dissatisfaction and a preference for futile suffering. It makes fate a human matter, which must be settled among men.

...I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

Herein lies the difference between the nihilist and the existentialist. The nihilist loses all hope in the face of absurdity, he sees the world as full of pain and suffering. One must endure this pain and suffering in the face of a meaningless existence.

The existentialist askes, even in the face of absurdity can one persist through the absurd and find one's own purpose and meaning to live? He concludes yes.

Viktor Frankl wrote the famous book Man's Search For Meaning about his time in the concentration camps and how he was able to find meaning even in the most desperate circumstances.

"We who lived in the concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms - to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way."

There was an instance he spoke of where two comrades of his came to him in the camp each with thoughts of suicide, when he asked them independently why they wished to end their lives they said that they had nothing to expect from life anymore. He responded by asking:

"Now listen, isn't it considerable that instead life expects something from you?"

The one man remembered that he had a daughter waiting for him who had made it safely to the United States and the other man had a collection of books he wished to finish. They each were able to find meaning and purpose in their lives again in something that they had to accomplish for others, not for themselves.

He developed the psychology field of logotherapy "will to meaning". He believed that striving to find meaning is the most powerful motivating and driving force for humans.

I'm working on my own theory of happiness in which happiness stems from three main things self-respect, meaning, and love.

Self-respect: This has to do with authenticity (acting truthfully) and moral goodness (acting rightly).

Meaning: Frankl explains the importance of this well enough in his work and in his field of logotherapy.

Love: There's much to say about love but I've already gone over the other two and I don't wish to bore you further.

I'll leave you with one final quote on the absurd.

"I used to think it was a terrible thing that life was so unfair. Then I thought, 'what if life were fair, and all of the terrible things that happen to us came because we really deserved them?' Now I take great comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe."

[buddabubba]

yet another way to look at it (without reading every reply in detail) is to ask "What/why/who is the 'you' that didn't ask to be born?"

Do you think your worldview prevents you from seeing the wonder and mystery of existence, the joy of life, the bliss of being...?

A myriad bubbles were floating on the surface of a stream.

'What are you?' I cried to them as they drifted by.

'I am a bubble, of course' nearly a myriad bubbles answered, and there was surprise and indignation in their voices as they passed.

But, here and there, a lonely little bubble answered, 'We are this stream', and there was neither surprise nor indignation in their voices, but just a quiet certitude.

- Wei Wu Wei

are you a bubble? or are you the stream?

---------- Post added 04-11-2012 at 01:07 PM ----------

	"I used to think it was a terrible thing that life was so unfair. Then I thought, 'what if life were fair, and all of the terrible things that happen to us came because we really deserved them?' Now I take great comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.

i love that...

[RBM]

	I'll leave you with one final quote on the absurd. "I used to think it was a terrible thing that life was so unfair. Then I thought, 'what if life were fair, and all of the terrible things that happen to us came because we really deserved them?' Now I take great comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe."

Apparently you have yet to grok:

	to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way."

Good Luck in finding a groking.

[buddabubba]

karma's indeed a bitch (or a princess), though.

When you give a shilling to a beggar
- do you realise that you are giving it to yourself?

When you help a lame dog over a stile
- do you realise that you yourself are being helped?

When you kick a man when he is down
- do you realise that you are kicking yourself?

Give him another kick - if you deserve it!

-wei wu wei

(i love Heinlein)

[angelina]

Sorry kids, for bothering you with such big questions! I already know the answers myself, but I was just trying to test you guys.

[lancelot]

Originally Posted by angelina To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

What to do? I didn't chose to be born, I couldn't even chose my gender! Many things would be easer for me if I was a man! I was thrown into this stupid hopeless world, without my own permission/will! lol To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I can't kill myself for these reasons: family, I just can't hurt them since they've been through alot already, suicide hurts To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , and what if there really is a God, afterlife? This is why I say I can't exist, bcs if there is something on the other side then I will live there too, hhaha, probably in hell just cuz I doubt God's existence haha! BUT I am generally a good person To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. A letter to God/Universer/Existence: yes this world is beautiful, how the human body and mind works like a machine, is facinating! Look at the moon, the sun, the stars, the animals, the whole creation, amazing! BUt please erase me from existense! Nothing in this world can fill this void in my heart! Not even God himself...I wasn't mean to exist! My problem is not that I have a hard life or something, it's just that I can't stand this shitty meaningless world anymore! I'm just fooling myself into thinking that i'm a "truthseeker" and that's actually the strongest thing that keeps me going, but the truth is there is no truth! I have superficial knowledge about existence theories ..so one of "my" theory is that the abrahamic god exists and maybe islam might be the truth, but that small amount of agnostics and atheist are trying to hide the truth from the rest of the world! lol conspiracy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I'm really not good at explaining my thoughts! To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think it's normal to be occasionally upset by life, or not happy with our existence, or to feel confused, our existence is beyond comprehension.

[r Don]

	Originally Posted by angelina To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What to do? I didn't chose to be born, I couldn't even chose my gender! Many things would be easer for me if I was a man!

So? Change.

Not, by hopping into a time machine and preventing your birth, or visiting a surgeon for a gender reversal. But through changing your attitude into one of acceptance and embrace your feminism rather than rejecting it.

Just curious: why would you think an easier life (if that were true of men), is preferrable? Are not the trials of life the stuff which makes our existence meaningful?

[Disillusioned]

	Originally Posted by r Don To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Just curious: why would you think an easier life (if that were true of men), is preferrable? Are not the trials of life the stuff which makes our existence meaningful?

Only if you choose to take meaning out of them.

[zibber]

	Originally Posted by SAAj To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	cogito ergo sum (I doubt, therefore I am)

Close enough
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.

[angelina]

The reason for why I wish a man is mostly because I'm from a very traditional and religious family, so girls are expected to act certain ways, but I don't believe in those things. They aren't forcing me to do things I don't like..but if I was 100% myself then I would "break their hearts"... so I'm between two worlds. It would be more acceptable for men to not accept those kind of rules, so there won't be any broken hearts lol. So instead of changing all the rules alone by myself, I just wish I was a man. haha! Because I have other things that's going on my head too, so I can't use my energy on that lol.



Another reason is that men don't need to use make-up.


But this--->"I wish I was a man" thing is only a little part(maybe 1%) of why I want to NOT exist, but can't NOT exist.


You know what? Forget this
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[noctilux]

I have been asking myself some of the questions in this thread, and have some of my own questions.

@disillusioned:

Thank you, your thoughts were very interesting and encouraging. I have two problems with them, though, which I hope you (or anyone else) might consider:

1. I understand that Frankl says it is necessary for human beings to find some meaning in life. But how can I convince myself that whatever meaning I could choose is not a delusion? How do I know it is "right", when there are so many meanings to choose from? And how can I firmly believe it if I know that I am just "feeding" it to myself to exist?
2. I have a problem with "being myself" on the one hand and "being anything I choose to be" on the other. The first assumes that the self is static, the second that it can be changed at will. What's the truth? If both are possible, when should we resort to which?

Thanks!

[angelina]

	Originally Posted by VF1J To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If you really wanted to kill yourself then you probably wouldn't care about your family.

Very true.

I can't kill myself now because I care about them and I don't want to hurt them. I want them happiness, but I wish I wasn't a part of them. I have developed emotional bonds with them from birth and experiences and that's why I care about them, but if I destroy those bonds, then I wouldn't feel any guilt in the last moments of my life, before I end it, so I have a plan! I will first make them hate me, and then leave them, but the only person who will be sad is me, but this sadness is only before death, after death I'm probably gone...into the unkown...and I doubt that there is something else after death..so I wouldn't feel any guilt after that!

God never existed, or died long time ago! lol And this world is worse than the "hell" on the other side, if there is any "hell". So bye bye to "God's" punishment! I know that there's so much that I don't know, and some may say that I shouldn't give up, but right now I'm not in a state to "absorb" new thoughts or perspectives on life..everything makes me sick, especially the thought of knowing that I'm not the only one who feels like this..this makes me even more sick!
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Btw. I'm not weak or something, I've faced a lot of shit and not every person at my age could actually go on like I did...so I'm not a coward if I end my life
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It was just my thoughts..a dream, but I will never DO it! It needs to much work, man. Finally my laziness became useful here, it prevented me from ending my life.
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[angelina]

I feel like I'm polluting this cute forum with negativity and pessimism by sharing my dark thoughts and feelings about life!
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I'm depressed folks, so this is the only place I can express my feelings that I've been hiding on the inside my whole life from the real world.
I know that my negativity won't affect anybody, but I'm realizing that it becomes a little bit annoying
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I will heal myself soon, so forgive me for this negativity. It'll be over, I know it. Thanks to those who wasted their time on answering me, and sorry if I've been a little bit rude!
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[Disillusioned]

Originally Posted by noctilux To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

@disillusioned: Thank you, your thoughts were very interesting and encouraging. I have two problems with them, though, which I hope you (or anyone else) might consider: 1. I understand that Frankl says it is necessary for human beings to find some meaning in life. But how can I convince myself that whatever meaning I could choose is not a delusion? How do I know it is "right", when there are so many meanings to choose from? And how can I firmly believe it if I know that I am just "feeding" it to myself to exist?

Hmm, you must first understand where meaning comes from. I wrote on this in a paper where I was explaining that meaning is subjective while morality is universal. Some people ask how can one be subjective and the other be objective? I explain:

I believe that many tend to associate the idea of morality not having inherent meaning with that of morality being subjective; which is cause of much of the confusion surrounding the matter of morality. Meaning is something that requires a consciousness. Nothing can have meaning without a consciousness applying such meaning to it, as meaning signifies a conscious understanding of something. Thus meaning is necessarily subjective. We each choose what meaning to give things, and that meaning can be different for each of us. Some are quick to apply this to morality and say that it is also subjective and dependent on each individual; but note that this does not follow. The two are not synonymous; something can exist and two people can apply different meaning to that thing (for example, the value of the fetus in relation to the mother) but that does not change the fact that that thing exists independently of them. Neither of them have changed the fact that there exists a fetus; they have simply placed different subjective values on the significance of that fetus in relation to the significance of the mother (e.g. some believe it has equal rights to the mother, others believe it has less rights than the mother). However, the fetus still exists regardless of the conclusions the two people come to. This is because it is something that exists independently of them.

Take this Example:

Consider a universe which is made up of two rocks floating in space and nothing else. No humans or consciousness to speak of. There are still two rocks; mathematics does not rely on humans for its existence and it exists outside of the human mind. We can only hold an understanding of the concept within our mind. The fact that there was no understanding of the two rocks does not mean that there ceased to be two rocks. Now you could argue that a universe made up of two rocks is a meaningless universe, since there is nothing to have an understanding of it and thus give it meaning. Though that does not negate the fact that mathematics still exists in such a universe. Morality works in much the same way.

So the fact that meaning is subjective does not mean that there is no objective truth. It just means that a consciousness is required in order to give that truth meaning and thus meaning is necessarily dependent on the individual who is applying it to that external thing. One can say then that morality (what is good or bad) is objective, but as an individual you are free to decide what meaning to place on that morality. One person can find it meaningful to live righteously and another person can find that living righteously is not meaningful to their life. We as individuals do not choose whether or not things exist, merely what meaning we want to give those things.

So you see, meaning is necessarily subjective and dependent on ourselves. Therefore, it does not make sense to ask how you can know that the meaning you choose to give something is real. It is necessarily real because you are the originator of meaning to begin with. Whatever meaning you choose to give your life, it now (actually) has that meaning because that is the meaning you have chosen to give it.

Just like morality and mathematics, you exist; this is a fact. What you have to decide is what meaning to give that existence, and that is solely up to you.

	2. I have a problem with "being myself" on the one hand and "being anything I choose to be" on the other. The first assumes that the self is static, the second that it can be changed at will. What's the truth? If both are possible, when should we resort to which?

You have a misunderstanding of what it means to "be myself". It does not mean static or unchanging, it merely means acting in accordance with your true self. So an example, you can act authentically and still manage to change throughout your life based on new experiences and the attainment of new knowledge and also through reflection and your own will. If at any moment you do not like who you are, you are free to change. If you truly want to change then it will not be inauthentic to change and thus you are acting in accordance with your true self by seeking change. I asked this same question in meditation I said 'I want to change a certain aspect of myself, but if I change would I still be being myself?' My voice of reason said to me: You can change without changing who you are.

I recently saw His Holiness The Dalai Lama speak in San Diego just this past Thursday.

A woman asked: "If you have lost your way in life, what is the best way to find your right path?"

The Dalai Lama said: "I think generally, future, no guarantee. At the same time, future is open. So much depend on your own self-confidence and optimism. So even your sort of certain sort of a way of life now change, fade or reach end, you have to find new way, you will find.

So when your familiar way of life now find desolate and confused, that’s due to your sort of narrow minded thinking just only that way. Open. Look round, you will find a different way of life. So as I mentioned earlier your future is open, and meantime no guarantee. So it depends on one’s own determination and determination alone, again, will not be guaranteed. Determination with wisdom. Wisdom means holistic view, look a wider way with expectation of obstacle bound to happen. Then much easier… What do you think?"

So you see, the two are one and the same. To be yourself is to be anything you choose to be.

[RBM]

Originally Posted by Disillusioned

Neither of them have changed the fact that there exists a fetus; they have simply placed different subjective values on the significance of that fetus in relation to the significance of the mother (e.g. some believe it has equal rights to the mother, others believe it has less rights than the mother). However, the fetus still exists regardless of the conclusions the two people come to. This is because it is something that exists independently of them.

So, where is the objective morality in this case ?

[Disillusioned]

	Originally Posted by RBM To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, where is the objective morality in this case ?

I have talked about objective morality in other threads. He asked about meaning, I merely shared with him a small section of a paper where I addressed both. I will not derail this thread with a debate over relativism and absolutism.

You're better off addressing your question to one of the abortion threads.

[RBM]

	Originally Posted by Disillusioned To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have talked about objective morality in other threads. He asked about meaning, I merely shared with him a small section of a paper where I addressed both. I will not derail this thread with a debate over relativism and absolutism. You're better off addressing your question to one of the abortion threads.

I'm addressing you cause you referenced the argument. This is a 'meta' question, if you will, as I have absolutely no interest in 'the abortion argument', per se.

I'd welcome a link that succinctly answers my specific question of where is morality objective in that case which would allow you to not derail this thread.

[Disillusioned]

	Originally Posted by RBM To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm addressing you cause you referenced the argument. This is a 'meta' question, if you will, as I have absolutely no interest in 'the abortion argument', per se. I'd welcome a link that succinctly answers my specific question of where is morality objective in that case which would allow you to not derail this thread.

First off, it does not make sense to ask where objective morality is in this case. Morality is either objective or subjective. If it is objective it would be objective in every case. If what you meant to ask is 'how do we know' what objective morality is in that case, then that would be a question of the epistemology of morality not the ontology, and that is off topic as this thread is about ontology and the nature of existence and being. Also, it is not a topic of the ontology of morality but of meaning, free will and purpose (i.e. topics addressed in existentialism, not ethics).

[noctilux]

Thank you very much, disillusioned. Your answer was very interesting and helpful to me. No questions at the moment, but I can't guarantee that it will stay that way
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[teryrei]

Originally Posted by angelina To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I know that I've mentioned God's name alot, but that's just for fun lol. I don't believe in a God right now. Call me an agnostic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. You can call it God or nature that gave me this female role, but whatever it is, I am against sex change, because it is against nature itself..so I have accepted this gender now.

What precisely do you mean by the "female role"?

A lot of such roles are societally given, and you ought to be careful to extricate that from the few roles that are biological in nature.

Also, part of our very biology is the higher mental functions which allow us to choose things like changing our gender - I don't think anything in this world is so unnatural as people might want to claim.

[VF1J]

	Originally Posted by angelina To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I feel like I'm polluting this cute forum with negativity and pessimism by sharing my dark thoughts and feelings about life! To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Nope, you sound like the cute one. Too many smileys.

[angelina]

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	Nope, you sound like the cute one. Too many smileys.

But they are for free! I'm afraid of not having enough time to use them all!
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[buddabubba]

no. mathematics does not exist in such a universe.
math is a language that describes, and what would be described still exists, but not the description...