[helmbrechtsman]

I confess. I am an intj cpa. I started in polymer chemistry and after being laid off my practical side got the best of me. I went back to school for accounting and passed the CPA exam on the first try. I ended up in public accounting. I loved it because I was learning a new career. I eventually hated the long hours as it interferred with all my other hobbies. I went into accounting in private and it was so boring doing the same month end close. I went into internal auditing where everything is about identifying and testing controls in processes. I can see I liked the concepts while learning accounting. Internal auditing is okay but it I find it boring after doing it for 10 years. I have tried to make it interesting by teaching people about controls when I audit. However, most of the people I have met in accounting and auditing are not intj's. To them, following an audit program is to goal of auditing. To me it is trying to understand and change processes. Many of them cannot see my way of thinking so I have just given up and concentrated on my hobbies. My advice is to not be an intj CPA.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by helmbrechtsman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	To them, following an audit program is to goal of auditing. To me it is trying to understand and change processes.

I think I can understand that. I've been involved in a few IT audits, where my managers took the approach that audits were something to be feared, and you only need to "shape up" directly before the audit. I, on the other hand, saw audits as an opportunity to learn what we were doing wrong, and by that, improve our controls. I never really understood why people are so damn afraid of audits. As long as you're not a complete fuck-up (i.e., follow the rules and do your job), you should be fine...

[INTJfml]

Another intj cpa here. Accounting absolutely appeals to my logical/intuitive side. Unfortunately, just about everything that comes with working in corporate america and others I pretty much despise. Though again, that doesn't really relate to the accounting at all.

[damiandee]

Hi Mogura,

I've wondering how you went with wanting to become an accountant?

Looking at your posts (which go back some time!) I'm in a similar position to you. I'm definitely an INTJ and considering accountancy. It has so many positives such as business ownership options, above average pay, good job availability, job stability, respected by peers etc etc...

However the one thing I'm a bit worried about is that it could be repetitive and dare I say it boring. My view is that the more senior you become the more variety and problem solving you are exposed too, which is good for an INTJ.

Also, I'm looking to become a Financial Accountant which means you have a portfolio of clients, regular interaction (meetings & ph calls), and a wide variety of issues to deal with.

Let me know your thoughts. I'm interested to hear what you learnt.

Regards
Damian

[Mogura]

Hi Damian,

If memory serves correct, around the time I made the post I was being encouraged by my then employer and the head of auditing to pursue a specialization in IT auditing. I had a knack for stumbling upon irregularities, doggedly pursuing them, investigating, etc. which is in all likelihood what got me noticed.

Anyway, I considered it, and started looking into the broader field of accounting (including financial) as a possible career option, thinking that my innate talents for investigating and auditing may apply. Not only that, a lot of accountants (CPAs) seemed to be self-employed, which in itself, really appealed to me.

I did some self-reflection, and while I am good at the investigation side of things. I probably suck at the other stuff. This is true of situations where "the rules" or procedures go against logic or rational thinking. Plus, I have a horrible memory. I'd probably crash and burn trying to keep all of those arbitrary rules straight. Anyway, that was my impression of financial accounting, and decided that it probably isn't for me.

With that said, I have been following this thread, and have been quite impressed with the quality of responses, points of view, etc. It has been enlightening in that sense.

Though probably not material to the discussion, at the time I made the original post I thought I was an INTJ...
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[sircockburn]

And I wrote that "ENTJ Accountants" thread when I thought I was an ENTJ.
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My epilogue? I (barely) graduated with my Accounting BS, and I ended up not using it all, since I ended up founding a social media startup, that's doing well - and now I have my own accountant.
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It's good that I can interpret what she does, but I'm glad I don't do it for a living.

[serenesam]

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Do INTJ CPAs exist? Do you know of any?

It's interesting you propose this question. I have always been told that I should go into accounting by people who have no idea what my MBTI is of course, being an INTJ, and because I took accounting in high school. Accounting is not hard, just a lot to know, like what to add and what to subtract, and although it can get pretty complicated, if you have good memory, you should do fine. To me, the material is just way too dry, I prefer economics.

---------- Post added 09-18-2012 at 02:03 PM ----------

You see, with economics, I get to spend long, long hours describing why we should do something (like a stimulus bill - Paul Krugman) and then spend additional several, several hours describing why we should not do something (like how a stimulus bill destroys the economy - Peter Schiff).
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[zetroc]

I'm thinking about changing careers into accounting as well. Perhaps with a goal to become an auditor or have my own firm as some have pointed out.

@serenesam I think you are right about economics being more fun. I think I would naturally prefer economics as well, since I naturally gravitate to reading economic reports, but I live in a small town with no universities or major corps, so it would make it hard for me to find a job.

[godisanatheist]

Originally Posted by zetroc To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm thinking about changing careers into accounting as well. Perhaps with a goal to become an auditor or have my own firm as some have pointed out. @serenesam I think you are right about economics being more fun. I think I would naturally prefer economics as well, since I naturally gravitate to reading economic reports, but I live in a small town with no universities or major corps, so it would make it hard for me to find a job.

I'm taking advance auditing courses right now in my program and I can see how an NTJ type would do better than a STJ, as everything is in grey and you need to make decisions based on fitting the rules and whatnot into the big picture.

The one thing is that public auditing is a very people-intensive job. I don't have a very strong I (65/35 I guess) so I think I could manage.


Can anyone in this thread with information or experience with IT Auditing shed some light? The field seems highly interesting to me and I'd like to work in it when I graduate this coming year.

[Mogura]

Adding a bit more to my post made on 9-15-2012...

What appealed to me most about accounting/certified public accounting was the prospect of self-employment. I don't necessarily want to start a company with a staff, etc. I just wanted to be an enterprise of one, and accounting, with its high rate of self-employment, seemed like the answer.

However, despite the appeal and opportunities, I think that I would probably still end up hating it due to the very nature of accounting, and my own interests and the way my brain is wired, which don't really completment each other.

I'm still on the lookout for self-employment opportunities, but not so much in accounting...

[Rat Redux]

Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

On the subject of the suitability of accounting as a possible career path for INTJs, I did some research on the Web and have observed that while the accounting field was not mentioned as a possible career path for INTJs, the auditing field was. Interesting... I wonder why auditing would be suitable for INTJs (while accounting is not)? What is it about auditing that INTJs would enjoy (I am curious about this)? Would anyone care to share some insight? Thanks.

To complicate the issue further consider the forensic accountant specialty.
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[hgrail]

INTJ CPA here..

I recommend getting the CPA credential highly as a stepping stone. Everyone thinks they know what a CPA is - it will open doors for you that you didn't know existed.
Jobs descriptions over and over ask for a CPA these days - even if the responsibilities don't really warrant it. Having CPA's in a company's management or reporting/auditing department give them credibility, and give management peace of mind that the employees knew what they were doing before they walked in the door.

Unfortunately, the CPA profession (ie. public accountant) is really a production job, and although the work is interesting while you are learning it (financial reporting and tax anyhow) it quickly turns into a mind numbing production line sort of thing. For an INTJ I would recommend the auditing route if you can get it- it will provide some (some) relief from the monotony and is a good lead in for other positions. Plenty of folks leave the accounting firm to work for a client as an analyst, manager, director, CFO or etc and that can be good for certain folks. If there is an INTJ who has taken this route please chime in.

Folks also often get their time in, get the CPA (get the heck out) and then go into forensic accounting (as mentioned), fraud investigations, consulting or financial reporting in any number of industries. I've also known a number of people to start their own firm once they have their letters. Positions in fraud investigations and forensic accounting are also getting very popular at the state and federal government level these days for obvious reasons.

---------- Post added 09-30-2012 at 11:12 PM ----------

Originally Posted by helmbrechtsman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I confess. I am an intj cpa. I started in polymer chemistry and after being laid off my practical side got the best of me. I went back to school for accounting and passed the CPA exam on the first try. I ended up in public accounting. I loved it because I was learning a new career. I eventually hated the long hours as it interferred with all my other hobbies. I went into accounting in private and it was so boring doing the same month end close. I went into internal auditing where everything is about identifying and testing controls in processes. I can see I liked the concepts while learning accounting. Internal auditing is okay but it I find it boring after doing it for 10 years. I have tried to make it interesting by teaching people about controls when I audit. However, most of the people I have met in accounting and auditing are not intj's. To them, following an audit program is to goal of auditing. To me it is trying to understand and change processes. Many of them cannot see my way of thinking so I have just given up and concentrated on my hobbies. My advice is to not be an intj CPA.

That's a bummer. I imagine any job would get boring after that many years for an INTJ. I haven't had to try it yet - so we'll see.

I tried with no success to get into internal audit for several years - but things worked out for me in other unexpected ways so no complaints.

I've found generally that most accountants can't follow my thought process as well. I'm good at understanding the business and what the numbers mean in the financial statements, so I can talk to management and tell them what is going on. Since I was good at interpreting the financials I found I enjoyed being an analyst. That has been a rewarding skill which keeps coming in handy.

---------- Post added 10-01-2012 at 06:22 PM ----------

For some reason I was thinking further about this today. Wishing that 25 years ago someone had given me better career direction. Though I guess I wouldn't have listened anyhow-

I found when I was taking accounting-related college classes - the first classes were really dull, rules and memorization. You don't get to the interesting stuff (analysis, interpretation, troubleshooting) until the higher level classes. An accounting career is much the same. The first few years is a bunch of learning the ropes, production and boring crap. Get your letters and get the heck out. Go do something interesting.

Here is my perception of several accounting related roles based on my direct experience.

Public Accounting:
Audit -Learn about many diff companies and businesses in very short period of time. Network like crazy. Eventually perhaps get hired by a client. Good place to start an accounting career. Expect long hours & plenty of travel.

Taxes (Corporate and individual) Oh God, if I have to fill out ONE MORE FORM.. (But pays them bills)
Payroll Taxes Oh God, if I have to fill out ONE MORE FORM.. (But pays them bills)

Consulting (CPA as well as non-CPA)
Runs the gamut from financial compliance to help with financial reporting and account reconciliations. Some projects are good some are not as interesting. Meet lots of people and develop plenty of relationships if you are into that thing. All projects are always behind schedule because the client always waits until they are knee deep in trouble to call for help. If you don't like deadlines this may not be fun for you. If you like excitement and can handle the stress you may love this. Expect long hours & lots of travel.

Financial Reporting (Insurance)
GAAP financial reporting- All companies need GAAP accountants, and these folks generally get paid better than the statutory accounts. Having said that, GAAP accounting can be vague and most of the disclosures are written by lawyers. Good for a qualification on the resume but I didn't find this to be fun for me. Deadlines galore and everything has to get through three layers of legal review..

statutory financial reporting- Insanely detailed method of solvency accounting that the states require the insurance companies to use. Extremely structured and difficult to understand (until you get the hang of it). Doing variance analysis and troubleshooting in stat accounting can be tricky - so if you can master it you can have fun and be appreciated (sometimes). Very specialized and if you have these skills you will always have a job. Insurance companies pay fairly well and the detail and troubleshooting were appealing to me so this was a skill this INTJ leans on heavily to this day. Recommended.

Sales Analyst- Basically working through the numbers to determine what is selling, where, who should get paid for it, and what it cost us to make (if you don't have a cost accountant). Making and selling widgets is fun. Some widgets and industries are more fun than others. I had full access to the manufacturing floor and knew everything from raw materials to final product as it went out the door. Had interations with all levels of management, manufacturing and engineering. Recommended for an INTJ (if you can find a manufacturer that hasn't moved to China yet).

Business/Systems Analyst- Generally involves getting business needs from management, figuring out what is needed and how to implement said solution across the company. Since I had an accounting background, but have always been a systems geek this was a natural for me. Since I can actually communicate well (which accountants don't have a good reputation for doing well), I found that I was a good liason between management and systems and could make stuff happen. Usually it would start by me complaining to my director about something like "blah blah, this system sucks, why can't we do it this way instead." to which they usually responded - "Good idea - Make it so." Recommended if you are an INTJ who likes building things and/or helping people. I always found systems folks more interesting than accountants anyhow. Consider joining ISACA.org as these are good systems geeks to network with. Leave the tie at home for these meetings.

Fraud Investigator- Figure out where the money went. Try to prevent it from going away again. If you're lucky - get some back. If you like puzzles and don't mind documenting everything to the Nth degree this might be for you. +2 if you like working with police officers. I had some opportunities working on instances of fraud and very much enjoyed figuring out what happened, who was involved, and how to fix the controls so the problem couldn't occur again. Also make sure the critters get locked up. Look at/consider joining organizations such a the Association for Certified Fraud Examiners ACFE.com. Recommended for INTJs.

Financial/Credit Analysis- Figure out which companies are going to blow up before the market does and warn whoever is paying your salary.. Analysts are used by everyone from trader shops to insurance companies. Involves tonnes of detail, number crunching and sometimes intuition to get you going in the right direction. In some places you have a great deal of lattitude in how to get the job done and the resources to apply as long as you have a reputation for making the right call. Having a CPA and other certs gives you credability here. Recommended for INTJs.

[Moniker9]

I am considering going into accounting. I'm attracted to it because it seems very marketable and stable, I also like the possibility of working from home and possibly becoming self employed. I have two prime concerns:

1) How vulnerable is the profession to outsourcing and automation?

2) Are there any aspects of accounting which might make it difficult for an intj to become competent in it? For example, does it rely excessively on the Sensing function?

~Edit: My primary concern is job stability, not enjoyment.

[LexRex]

I have an accounting degree.

[Gefyon]

Originally Posted by Moniker9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I am considering going into accounting. I'm attracted to it because it seems very marketable and stable, I also like the possibility of working from home and possibly becoming self employed. I have two prime concerns: 1) How vulnerable is the profession to outsourcing and automation? 2) Are there any aspects of accounting which might make it difficult for an intj to become competent in it? For example, does it rely excessively on the Sensing function? ~Edit: My primary concern is job stability, not enjoyment.

1. Not very, in my experience. But it probably depends on what sort of accounting you are interested in. I have never had any trouble finding jobs regardless of where I lived (small, very rural towns to major metro areas). It's been pretty recession proof. And I've always made enough money to provide for me and my two kids.

2. Depends on what type of accounting you are doing. I saw accounting as a relational system (as corporate accounting is built around a mathematical equation). As such, I was able to bring a lot of my INTJ to the table in a productive way - making constant improvements to efficiency within the process.

The cyclical nature of business accounting can drive you nuts though, because you are never *finished*. But that is just job security when you think about it.

Forensic accounting is probably the most interesting aspect of accounting that I dealt with, but it is very niche - not a huge demand for it.

[Continuity]

Well I have an accounting diploma, I assume CPA is the American equivalent of chartered accountancy in the UK?
Personally I have no desire to take accountancy to that level, even though the opportunity is there, my boss wants me to do it and the company would sponsor... but I just can't face it.

[Moniker9]

	Originally Posted by Gefyon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	2. Depends on what type of accounting you are doing. I saw accounting as a relational system (as corporate accounting is built around a mathematical equation). As such, I was able to bring a lot of my INTJ to the table in a productive way - making constant improvements to efficiency within the process.

Which particular sub-fields of accounting do you think INTJs are best suited for?

[Gefyon]

	Originally Posted by Moniker9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Which particular sub-fields of accounting do you think INTJs are best suited for?

I found public accounting to be downright awful, unless I was called on to build an accounting system from the ground up for a client. Too much contact with the general public and not enough autonomy.

Business/corporate accounting was a good fit for me, personally, but I wouldn't want to apply that to INTJ's across the board. I especially liked manufacturing and project oriented industries, as there are more moving parts and more opportunities to improve the system. And I preferred working in small to medium sized businesses to avoid Cubicle-land. I do better in smaller accounting departments where I can have more control and more involvement in the big picture.

I have no experience with investment type accounting, so I can't really speak to that.

[Chan]

I have considered accounting in the past too. It is perfect for an ISTJ and I have moved between the N and S categories over time. It could possibly depend on how strong your N/S score is.

[Barrister]

I studied accounting at university. It's a very boring area that I found to be not intellectually stimulating at all. Working in a firm for a while only put a nail in that coffin. That didn't stop me finishing the degree though through my own determination.

I'm studying law now at university, MUCH MUCH more rewarding to study than accounting, and more rewarding financially too.