[ALAMGIR]

What are you doing to improve your inferior function? Extraverted sensing too many people is the normal modus operandi. For INTJs however it is a quite elusive thing to capture. It really does hurt any INTJ or any other type with weak Se if they have to deal with the hoi polloi regularly if this function is not developed. How do you augment it?

[Still Standing]

I think the issue here is paying attention to your surroundings and the "here and now" without processing (i.e. thinking about) the information at the same time. Have you tried some kind of meditation or mindfulness exercises?

[ALAMGIR]

	Originally Posted by Still Standing To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think the issue here is paying attention to your surroundings and the "here and now" without processing (i.e. thinking about) the information at the same time. Have you tried some kind of meditation or mindfulness exercises?

Yes I have. I'm looking for one that is best (INTJ perfectionism) and least time time consuming. I have such a erratic non-routine that I struggle with fitting any meditational program into my daily repertoire. What have you tried?

[Dolores]

I need to focus on details at work. I then can go into S mode. I think a work, hobby or whatever, that requires focusing on details, will help you augment the function.

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by ALAMGIR To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes I have. I'm looking for one that is best (INTJ perfectionism) and least time time consuming. I have such a erratic non-routine that I struggle with fitting any meditational program into my daily repertoire. What have you tried?

I took a transcendental meditation class about 20 years ago (it's about repeating a mantra 15 minutes twice a day and is more about not thinking than about sensing) but doing that didn't help much in my daily life besides relieve a bit of my chronic insomnia. I also looked into some stuff by the Swiss doctor Roger Vittoz (it's called the Vittoz Method actually) but there's not much info available in English besides the easily googleable PDF called How to Control Your Brain at Will.

But anyway, my guess is that whatever you try, if you can't develop a steady routine with it, it will never become an ingrained, positive habit for you. Maybe doing yoga or a steady workout, with a conscious effort on what you're doing instead of thinking about something else at the same time?

[Zsych]

Think that the world around you is important, that you need to notice little things, and learn to enjoy yourself more.

[epox]

I could easily miss an elephant in a corridor,my Se is terrible.

[Tactical Panda]

Damn the consequences. Grab all the cash you can, go out to the shops and buy everything sexy that catches your eye. Don't worry about when you will use it or what is its purpose - look intead for things like colour, the way the material in the pants sounds as they rub against each other, and whatever you are drawn to on impulse.

Go the the cafe and forget carbs and all the information you have learnt. Buy what sounds tasty. You have half a second to decide after reading the description. It sounds yum - lets eat it.

Walk up the security guard. See how many times you can get him to explain where all the toilets are without him getting even the tiniest bit annoyed at you. Everything is fair game - pretend you are a tourist or something. Look for his expression and his body posture for ques as to what he is easily prepared to believe. The rest is BS and feigned innocence.

In short, life is an opportunity, damn the consequences and have fun. Every second spent thinking without experiencing is a wasted second. Talk the talk, and also try to look like you can walk the walk - care about how far others are prepared to let you go based on how you look and how you speak and how you walk. Get off the computer now! Reality will determine your plan of action without your long term thinking getting in the way!

Well - thats my suggestion for quickly improving extraverted sensing. Don't hold me liable, its just an idea. Stupid consequence disclaimers and psychological distancing. *mutter*

[Imagineering]

operate heavy machinery

[timatron]

	Originally Posted by epox To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I could easily miss an elephant in a corridor,my Se is terrible.

lol, indeed.


It depends how Se you want to become. I can get "into the zone" being Se, hanging around my artisan friends. However it gets too much. I really need to get back into a rational state.

Personally, I think it's better becoming aware of Se just a a little bit. Not too much. I notice I can increase my Se, by doing things like going for a surf. Just something where you need to be aware of your bodies movements.

Se takes advantage of opportunities right now. So on another level, for example, if I were at the shops and the checkout chic was really hot, I would just see her regularly and think about asking her out. And that's it. Now, if I see a girl I like, I ask for her number right there and then. Se.

Find a bunch of artisans, hang out with them, and observe them. Try to catch their atmosphere and body language. Thats the best way I think.

Hope this helps.

[ALAMGIR]

	Originally Posted by timatron To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Se takes advantage of opportunities right now. So on another level, for example, if I were at the shops and the checkout chic was really hot, I would just see her regularly and think about asking her out. And that's it. Now, if I see a girl I like, I ask for her number right there and then. Se.

I used to analyze the whole situation (not fear, but a host of reasons) so long that I would usually end up waiting too long and the girl would be gone or on her way. I have only recently begun to just act quickly and ask a girl out without thinking about it too much. I still got long ways to go. I think I sometimes act like I'm a talent scout who's looking for the next beautiful actress to be a star. INTJ perfectionism at play here. Unrealistic?

[Taklamakan]

DIY is a pretty good way.
Starting with easier little projects, that do not involve fingers getting cut off too easily, and that can go quickly enough not to get boring, and then be more and more ambitious as experience and confidence comes.

Personally, I've discovered a great Se outlet in dancing, going at it very intensely and honestly, finding new moves to accompany the sound as its coming requires bypassing all planning and, no time for analysis, everything becomes purely reactive. If you go at it intensively as prescribed here, it also does a good work out.
Even if you don't have a good sense of rythm (mine is still something to work on), it can be very fun. And people around actually find it awesome when someone is giving it all dancing.

[JulietCapulet]

I have noticed an increase in my Se. But I am ENFP. It is quite amazing. Am I becoming an ESFP???? Noooo! Lol.

[waytooserious]

Originally Posted by OReally To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

According to MBTI theory our inferior (4th) function is one we start to notice a lack of skill in about middle age. As INTJs our inferior function is extraverted sensing. One way we may notice our deficiency with this function is repeated problems or challenges in our life related to this ability. We may feel challenged or experience conflict when dealing with those who have this as one of their top functions. I'm wondering how other INTJs work on increasing their skill with extraverted sensing. Examples and stories from your life would be helpful. I would imagine any kind of physical fitness activity would help. Has it?

I think it's good to want to increase this skill, and therefore be a more balanced person. I totally agree about that. I want to be more able to use Se so that I can do the things I want to, and make my way in the world.

But I think also it's good to recognise that INTJs have a unique way of doing things that is an important contribution towards society. What's wrong with being the person who sits back and analyses things before doing them?

It's good to play to your weaknesses and improve them. But would famous INTJs like Isaac Newton or Niels Bohr have made the contributions they did to society if they were so focused on improving their Se function? Who knows, but I think it stands to reason that the weird way we do things is not just something weird that needs balancing, but something unique and helpful.

If we don't recognise our gifts and work too much on our weaknesses, we would fall short of doing our best.

[sunlover]

Originally Posted by OReally To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

According to MBTI theory our inferior (4th) function is one we start to notice a lack of skill in about middle age. As INTJs our inferior function is extraverted sensing. One way we may notice our deficiency with this function is repeated problems or challenges in our life related to this ability. We may feel challenged or experience conflict when dealing with those who have this as one of their top functions. I'm wondering how other INTJs work on increasing their skill with extraverted sensing. Examples and stories from your life would be helpful. I would imagine any kind of physical fitness activity would help. Has it?

I've actually contemplated ballroom dancing lessons with the wife.......if that isn't the Se trying to leak out I don't know what is.

[fatkattykat]

Boxing and exercise classes have helped me. I remember after one boxing class, my body just felt so "in-tune" with everything, and I just seemed to feel like I was flowing...it was like nothing I had experienced before.

I think one thing that could help is taking a defensive driving or stunt driving course. Se is my most unused function, and therefore I am a terrible driver. But driving is one of those everyday things that most of us have to do that forces us to use Se. Taking some lessons or courses might help build confidence in this area.

[Bamboo]

With most goals, it's best to have a clear idea of WHY are you doing something so you can appropriately judge the steps to get there.

I think the most valuable reasons WHY an INTJ in particular would want to develop an Se skill set would be:
1) increased effectiveness of communication and the transfer of their ideas (using clear terms)
and
2) making sure their ideas are congruent with something realistic (really know it, don't just intuit it).


You guys give me your input on that but I think that's what the INTJ would benefit from and desire the most. I chose the above based on what I think you guys think is important balanced with potential perceptual shortcomings.

In response to some other comments, developing athleticism may or may not be a useful way to go about this. I think mental exercises that force you to use your perceptive abilities (and to know how and when to balance these with you thought processes) can be productive.

[dogwoodlover]

	Originally Posted by OReally To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm wondering how other INTJs work on increasing their skill with extraverted sensing. Examples and stories from your life would be helpful. I would imagine any kind of physical fitness activity would help. Has it?

If you buy what Lenore Thompson is selling, conscious, directed development of our Inferior function is an exercise in futility and a losing game. Supposedly, our Inferior is too contrary and opposed to our dominant function to ever be able to gain any real prominence or use. From what I remember reading, intentional development and elevation of the Inferior was both counter-productive (in terms of Ni) and often detrimental, which is something I have personally experienced in my life.

IIRC, her recommendations involve development of Te, which leads to indirect manifestation and development of Se, but in a constructive and helpful way.


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The above is sort of fringe MBTI theory, but I personally think it carries a lot of oomph. Worth a read.

Originally Posted by jndiii To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Agreed. I would say that any physical activity that requires one to adjust on the fly will improve one's Se perspective. This could even include video games, insofar as one learns to recognize patterns and react in real time. It is possible for either Ti or Fi to be invoked as judging functions in this capacity, depending on the nature of the task, and it's difficult to tell which. It can even seem to me that I'm using Se and Ni simultaneously (to reignite a recent thread's argument): that while there is Se data coming in about what is happening, I also get a more "intuitive" impression of what might happen. This is arguably Ti or Fi, but it feels too much like what I do when I'm using Ni in other contexts, able to predict things or see "what is really going on."

To this extent, driving a car is an excellent exercise, or better yet, riding a very fast motorcycle. I kick ass at the former, working on the latter.

---------- Post added 01-02-2011 at 04:03 PM ----------

More related to the last two articles:


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[ALAMGIR]

I'm beginning to think sex is the easiest way to increase Se. I got some on new years eve and felt pretty aware of my surroundings for the next day. I've since (its only been a day) resumed with my strong Ni and wish the infusion of Se would have endured.

[Solaris]

	Originally Posted by ALAMGIR To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm beginning to think sex is the easiest way to increase Se. I got some on new years eve and felt pretty aware of my surroundings for the next day. I've since (its only been a day) resumed with my strong Ni and wish the infusion of Se would have endured.

Hormones =/= Se. You are just high on Oxytocin pal. Try paintball, or something that makes you need to key into details and act immediately.

[jerdol]

Something actual that doesn't allow your mind to wander off. I used to be into origami, and I think other crafts that involve following instructions would also be good. Jigsaw puzzles, maybe. I once spent a whole afternoon organizing my fiction bookshelf so it was alphabetical by author. Your mind can't wander, because you're using your brain.

[envirodude]

I highly recommend dancing (with a partner). It's the least natural activity I can think of, and yet it carries many side benefits. Martial arts would also be good, but you're probably already competitive enough. Eventually, you must dance to grow.

[Zedar]

	I'm beginning to think sex is the easiest way to increase Se. I got some on new years eve and felt pretty aware of my surroundings for the next day. I've since (its only been a day) resumed with my strong Ni and wish the infusion of Se would have endured.

Don't do it! Remember the flip side of an inferior Se - over-indulgence and addiction. I was a sex addict in my twenties and had to get off with someone every day.

Anyway, one way of developing your inferior Se is by throttling down on your dominant Ni. That might mean relax about being a perfectionist and concentrate more on what is rather than what could be. You guys who find that their enjoyment of sport is blunted by analyzing your opponents might find it beneficial to just react to what's happening even if it does mean you play a worse game.

And for those who feel a bit intimidated by the idea of parcours or ballroom dancing, housework and gardening might do just as well. You have to pay attention to the details of your environment and act.