[holdyourhead]

Define awkward?

[babsa]

I did

[Megalomania]

They're also fun for their occasional BO and video game addictions.

[holdyourhead]

Didn't see that. Thanks...

I dunno about socially inept, but unsocial - yeah.

Socially awkward...mmm sometimes. But not as much as I used to be if I'm honest. I did walk out of work 3 hours one day this week to avoid being socially awkward. No-one ever notices.

Misunderstood? Very much so by most people most of the time.

Doesn't awkward also have the definition of something that is uncooperative or unecessarily complicated. Not relevant here I guess.

[paperclip]

nahhh they're just as douche-y as the rest of 'em.

[ManWithNoName]

	Originally Posted by Megalomania To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	They're also fun for their occasional BO and video game addictions.

Yeah I think this is where the Japanese term Otaku can be helpful.

Nowadays it's kind of hard not to be a nerd or geek to some extent. If you want a good job you're going to have to do well at school and with the popularity of video games, nerdy cultural references, and super hero movies it's hard to escape it.

And so you have these introverted thinking males (which is what the article really seems to be describing) who probably to some lesser or greater degree have passing interests in these things.

And then you have the Otaku. The Otaku are your nerds nerds, or what the term really used to mean. The socially maladjusted shut-ins who really have no interest in things other then their small nerdy domain, who have to a lesser or greater extent kind of lost touch with reality and society and don't really have any motivation for external achievements.

Also, it should be noted that the article merely describes some features or benefits of nerds, or awkward men, or introverted thinkers which may not be immediately apparent on the surface. It does not talk about the women's attentions in wanting these type of men. It could be for genuine reasons, they are truly attracted to the man for who he is. Or as Distance noted, because they want some awkward guy to fawn over them and who makes them feel kind of better about them-self. Unless you examine on a case by case basis I think it would be impossible to tell which is which.

[anticlimatic]

I can sum this article up in one point:

1) Because they make me feel less awkward and socially inept.

[Kisai]

	Originally Posted by Hariar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What exactly is an "awkward guy"? Maybe there is only one in the entire universe, and that he is married to the author. ;-)

Michael Cera.

---------- Post added 03-21-2012 at 06:17 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by anticlimatic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I can sum this article up in one point: 1) Because they make me feel less awkward and socially inept.

2) Because I'm not ready for grown-up men.

[thesorehead]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Stereotyping. I've yet to meet a guy who isn't awkward some way or smooth in different ways. It's also irritating how she sticks the label of loud on any guy who's not awkward. Nice guy/jock repackaged.

Agreed.

Not that there's anything wrong with saying "nice guys are worth a shot, because nice is good" - but I'm not a fan of inefficiency. The writer could have just said it in 10 words.

[Persona]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Stereotyping. I've yet to meet a guy who isn't awkward some way or smooth in different ways. It's fucking annoying when writers repackage stereotypes and then, try to sell it to suckers.

I don't see what is being 'sold' here. I really don't understand your objection. I agree that there could be more emphasis on individual variation, though she does make an effort to reference it.

The goal here is to fight the stereotype of 'cool, cocky guys' that every boy seems to either think they have to be - by shifting the demand for them, rather than the supply. There are enough 'bros' as it is.

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's also irritating how she sticks the label of loud on any guy who's not awkward.

No, she doesn't. She compares awkward guys to those and doesn't mention any 'other types', so you could say it's implied, but is it really?

	Originally Posted by silvercrystal07 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I like awkward guys.

Me too :3

	Originally Posted by davai To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Some like, some don't. "I don’t want to be preachy." --- if you have to say you're not...

She's explaining a behaviour in a common situation, not offering platitudes. Is your reading comprehension always so poor?

---------- Post added 03-22-2012 at 12:53 AM ----------

Originally Posted by ManWithNoName To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hmmmmn, this is interesting. While I agree with a lot of points it makes, I find it interesting that if taken to the extreme you've almost got something close to a male version of a To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . A stereotypical character that exists solely to dazzle the other with sensitivity and awkward randomness and childlike glee and wonder. I've seen a lot of articles like this in the past year or so. I've yet to really see such a character in films or anything yet, but I wonder if we are getting a new stereotype or a gender reversed stereotype.

I don't think that's really what's occurring, since she makes reference to depth of personality, which is the defining reduction of the MPDG.

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What I find really annoying about this stereotype is the female condescension associated with it. Like women are perfect little social beasts giving the 'nice guy' a chance. *Newsflash* Everyone can be awkward sometimes.

I think you're reading way too much into this from other sources.

[Zethariel]

The article is nice, and it is true that having a caring and ballanced person as a mate is fantastic. The thing is, the loud guys are out there and are seen. The silent awkward guys are those faceless people who pass you by. They don't tingle your relationship sense in any way, they are invisible.

It is easier to get to know and fall for a person who you can observe, who provides stimuli. Initiating contact on an awkward guy is too draining, you never know what you get until you approach them.

[JohnDoe]

Originally Posted by ManWithNoName To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yeah I think this is where the Japanese term Otaku can be helpful. Nowadays it's kind of hard not to be a nerd or geek to some extent. If you want a good job you're going to have to do well at school and with the popularity of video games, nerdy cultural references, and super hero movies it's hard to escape it. And so you have these introverted thinking males (which is what the article really seems to be describing) who probably to some lesser or greater degree have passing interests in these things. And then you have the Otaku. The Otaku are your nerds nerds, or what the term really used to mean. The socially maladjusted shut-ins who really have no interest in things other then their small nerdy domain, who have to a lesser or greater extent kind of lost touch with reality and society and don't really have any motivation for external achievements.

Honestly its been my experience that Otaku are numerous enough now that they have an easy time dating. Its people who don't fit the sterotypes as far as nerdy guys are concerned that have it rough now.

---------- Post added 03-22-2012 at 04:30 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Persona To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The goal here is to fight the stereotype of 'cool, cocky guys' that every boy seems to either think they have to be - by shifting the demand for them, rather than the supply. There are enough 'bros' as it is.

For all the hating on bros, I've found "bros" to be far more socially accepting of me then nerds ever were. "Nerd" girls who like awkward boys tend to be some of the most vicious people in the world by virtue of being fawned over by every guy in the room. I refuse to buy into that game anymore.

---------- Post added 03-22-2012 at 04:32 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by ManWithNoName To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Nowadays it's kind of hard not to be a nerd or geek to some extent. If you want a good job you're going to have to do well at school and with the popularity of video games, nerdy cultural references, and super hero movies it's hard to escape it.

This just hasn't been my experience. A lot of nerd jobs pay FAR less then stereotypical "bro" jobs. Hell a good personal trainer will make more then a research scientist pre-tenure. And if you want to get things done as a researcher, well never being involved in video games or nerd culture is a good way to do that.

---------- Post added 03-22-2012 at 04:40 AM ----------

But, you know, admitting that awkward might be a bad thing for guys would suck, as then it would mean guys might have to actually go out of their comfort zone and try to improve themselves. That would really suck wouldn't it. And lets not play this game that having lots of socially awkward guys doesn't makes it easy for insecure women to feel validated. Nothing like being the gamer girl who everyone wants to get with to make you feel wanted after all. Girls who want insecure awkward guys are going after the low hanging fruit because they don't want to expose themselves to the risk of getting hurt. Its easy to ask guys out when you know they are so desperate they will say yes to anyone. But asking people out when they might say no? Well.. how often does that happen. Awkward guys need to realize that they aren't being asked out because they are liked, they are being asked out because they are emotionally easy in the same way that guys ask out the girl who is known to go to bed with anyone.

---------- Post added 03-22-2012 at 05:01 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Persona To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think you're reading way too much into this from other sources.

I don't think so at all. Associated with the nice awkward guy thing is by definition an assumption that the girl is better. It may not be an untrue assumption in many cases.

[SilentRequiem]

	Originally Posted by Persona To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The goal here is to fight the stereotype of 'cool, cocky guys' that every boy seems to either think they have to be - by shifting the demand for them, rather than the supply. There are enough 'bros' as it is.

I would argue that the "fighting" of the stereotype is pushing the "awkward man" to be in an environment that isn't his to begin with, as the "criteria" for the judging on the relationships seems as such, at least 3 or 4 of the 10 reasons are worth looking at reasons, the other 6-7 being the author's or the "common trend"'s personal preferences.

If one wants to fight a stereotype it is much better not to create another one.

It is a good read really, like entertaining to read, but it is not much of reasons, it looks more like "selling something" with the top 10 reasons thing, which often ends up with a failure to recognize the product.

Based on cursory reading, I can point out some facts where things are stereotypical, and also point that the author is pretty shallow in the assessment. Here are some points

	They’re nice human beings. It’s hard to be an awkward jerk.

There is no reason to show that it is hard, I know for instance a lot of awkward jerks, I can name some teachers and some "awkward" friends for that matter. To really get the idea of an arrogant awkward man, you can simply read low-tier journal publications, or probably take a cursory look at some of your teachers in HS/College etc. being awkward does not always compensate with being nice, hence the stereotype. And probably from cursory reading of low-tier journals you will probably realize that a size-able amount of "awkward" people do not know as much as you think they'd know about the topic.

	A Beautiful Mind” style. My husband, who is extremely good at math, says this never happens to him. Ever. Which is sad, but I’m trying to get over it.

I would argue that this is a shallow understanding of science, intuition, and the sort... but then I'll leave it to the reader's discretion. But it does give me a bad vibe about the article you see.

	6. They often get overlooked by girls who go for the flashier, louder, more obvious guys. Don’t get distracted by the shiny gift-wrap! It’s what’s inside that counts. And it’s really cool to know that you’re the kind of discerning person who knows quality when she sees it. Even when quality is wearing a baggy shirt with a picture of a moose in a bow tie.

This is total rubbish, how is that a reason even? That's like a girl telling her girlfriend about a bag she saw at some store, and to go buy it.

	10. They’re grateful.

Read INTJ/INTP description, should explain why that point is stereotypical.

I do not think many people here chose to disagree with the article because it might apply to a lot of the awkward types, the problem is I think with the tone and attitude of the author, looks too much like marketing in words that generally awkward people run away from.

Also:

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't think so at all. Associated with the nice awkward guy thing is by definition an assumption that the girl is better. It may not be an untrue assumption in many cases.

	And it’s really cool to know that you’re the kind of discerning person who knows quality when she sees it.

Marketing strategies *cringe*

What makes me more cringe is the "shallow implication of the author" see it there this is a totally personal opinion, but it makes me cringe:

	They don’t forget. They appreciate. It is truly awesome to be appreciated. Personally, I like to bask in it and then use it as an excuse to buy pretty dresses.

	A Beautiful Mind” style. My husband, who is extremely good at math, says this never happens to him. Ever. Which is sad, but I’m trying to get over it.

And here comes our savior:

	I got him jeans. He looked amazing. He could see that he looked amazing and has never stopped wearing them. We lived happily ever after — me and him and his jeans.

Honestly, I would avoid her, if I ever see her.

[psykhe]

They're adorable! <3

I like mine.
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[Persona]

	Originally Posted by Hariar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think it is more likely that assholes rather than "poor nerds" are attracted to it, because the former feel they are entitled. Oh, and by the way: stereotypes.

I think PUA material generates an entitlement complex in 'poor nerds' who are sick of watching everyone else have relationships while they have none. It makes assholes of the vulnerable. That sickens me a lot more than suggesting that awkwardness shouldn't be a turn-off

	Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I had a similar reaction. This is just some one-dimensional stereotypical crap on par with the neurotic pixie-girl thing. Same shit, different pile.

ehm, neurotic is very different from manic. And "manic pixie dream girl" is a trope. Please look it up.

Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This doesn't seem like something that's realistic or sustainable. Keep in mind, in reality people don't often enjoy being awkward. Imo, PUA generates so many followers because it exploits guys who really really want to shed their awkwardness. Most guys (well... people in general) desperately hate being awkward, and not just because of being passed over by girls. Look around on here, many of the guys who tout the PUA thing fully admit to having a pretty bad self-image all around. Awkwardness also tends to fade pretty quickly as people socialize and date more. Of course, during a relationship people tend to become "smoother" with their partner over time. Once that awkwardness fades, then what?

No, the only reason people don't want to be awkward is because awkwardness is vulnerability and north american society spurns vulnerability like it's Sparta.

You know what 'socializing and dating more' has taught me? Not to be less awkward, that's for sure. One thing I have learned, though, is that a warm smile and a bemused chuckle is all it takes to turn the horror of an awkward moment into a chance to bond, show appreciation, and generally be a better person. That's right, I'm still just as awkward as ever, but I love it. We probably wouldn't have even started dating without it.

	Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Ironically, there are lots of guys who are very good at playing on the "awkward" guy thing because they know it's so effective on some women. You think these guys got "so good in bed" by not getting laid? A To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. his awkwardness is sooooo sweeeeet. Sucker.

Being "good in bed" for me means following instructions and learning quickly. They're not trying to 'prove' anything, they just want you to feel good and they respect the fact that you probably know your body better than they do (which is important in my case because I'm very sensitive!) Of course, it should work both ways. But that's part of the reciprocity of a relationship.

---------- Post added 03-22-2012 at 03:34 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If you can avoid falling into hating women some of the PUA people have good messages.

Yes, we know. Eugenics isn't all bad either, but you don't see people joining the neo-nazis to get funding for genetic research. (yes, I godwined my own thread. Deal with it.
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)

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It honestly sounds like you want a puppy dog, not a boyfriend from that article. I mean, I'm a dog person too, but not exactly what I want from a relationship.

I think it's arrogant of you to say that people who genuinely appreciate each other are like puppy dogs.

[SilentRequiem]

	Originally Posted by psykhe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	They're adorable! <3

[HIDE="Oh really? How about this awkward guy?"]
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[/HIDE]

[psykhe]

	Originally Posted by SilentRequiem To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	[HIDE="Oh really? How about this awkward guy?"] To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. [/HIDE]

Don't. Do. That.


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[JohnDoe]

	Originally Posted by Persona To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think PUA material generates an entitlement complex in 'poor nerds' who are sick of watching everyone else have relationships while they have none. It makes assholes of the vulnerable. That sickens me a lot more than suggesting that awkwardness shouldn't be a turn-off

How the hell does it make assholes out of the vulnerable? Is asking for what you want now considered being an asshole?

	ehm, neurotic is very different from manic. And "manic pixie dream girl" is a trope. Please look it up. No, the only reason people don't want to be awkward is because awkwardness is vulnerability and north american society spurns vulnerability like it's Sparta.

Fair enough. Being awkward is not being vulnerable. They are completely independent. I can be awkward and not vulnerable and smooth and vulnerable. There is no evidence that being awkward is being vulnerable.

You know what 'socializing and dating more' has taught me? Not to be less awkward, that's for sure. One thing I have learned, though, is that a warm smile and a bemused chuckle is all it takes to turn the horror of an awkward moment into a chance to bond, show appreciation, and generally be a better person. That's right, I'm still just as awkward as ever, but I love it. We probably wouldn't have even started dating without it.

Awkwardness is endearing in women because of socialital constructs.

Being "good in bed" for me means following instructions and learning quickly. They're not trying to 'prove' anything, they just want you to feel good and they respect the fact that you probably know your body better than they do (which is important in my case because I'm very sensitive!) Of course, it should work both ways. But that's part of the reciprocity of a relationship. ---------- Post added 03-22-2012 at 03:34 AM ---------- Yes, we know. Eugenics isn't all bad either, but you don't see people joining the neo-nazis to get funding for genetic research. (yes, I godwined my own thread. Deal with it. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. )

Well you know when people start godwinining their own threads that they are onto something!

	I think it's arrogant of you to say that people who genuinely appreciate each other are like puppy dogs.

You don't want someone who appreciates you. You want someone who is so awkward that they would appreciate anyone so you can pretend to be vulnerable. If you really wanted to be vulnerable you'd go after people who wern't guaranteed to reciprocate. You are just afraid to take chances in life so you cover it up by convincing yourself that awkward guys are the height of desirability -- never mind that most awkward guys would go to bed with ANY girl who asked them out. Have some standards girl. This is the fundamental problem with most awkward guys -- they want a girlfriend, any girlfriend, not you. By your own admission

	'poor nerds' who are sick of watching everyone else have relationships while they have none.

Do you really think they are going to turn down any halfway attractive girl's advances?

This thing where it is good to be a socially awkward guy needs to be killed with fire. Its not good. It gets you all sorts of grief in life. It limits your opportunities. It should not be glorified. And respect should be given to those who try to get over their awkwardness.

Those who try to convince guys that it is good to be awkward are nothing but selfish.

[Hariar]

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Can't make someone do something they don't already want to do. The PUA people have turned attraction into a science and that scares a ton of people.

What scares people is the fact that these people are into cold-hearted manipulation, something which is commonly associated with psycopathy and dishonesty. Ted Bundy would have been an excellent pickup artist.

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	These things are not exactly bad. If you can avoid falling into hating women some of the PUA people have good messages.

If you avoid falling into the hatred of Hitler, I am sure he had a lot of clever, possisbly original, things to say. It is not wrong to give credit where credit is due (where it actually is), but keeping Hitler as a part of the package is irresponsible.

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This is the fundamental problem with most awkward guys -- they want a girlfriend, any girlfriend, not you.

This assumption would not survive trial.

	This thing where it is good to be a socially awkward guy needs to be killed with fire. Its not good. It gets you all sorts of grief in life. It limits your opportunities. It should not be glorified. And respect should be given to those who try to get over their awkwardness.

Some forms of awkwardness can be closely linked to a person's personality. I think the obsession you have with self-improvement is something that you need to improve upon.

[JohnDoe]

	Originally Posted by Hariar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What scares people is the fact that these people are into cold-hearted manipulation, something which is commonly associated with psycopathy and dishonesty. Ted Bundy would have been an excellent pickup artist.

I don't think that is a reasonable conclusion at all. Prove it.

	If you avoid falling into the hatred of Hitler, I am sure he had a lot of clever, possisbly original, things to say. It is not wrong to give credit where credit is due (where it actually is), but keeping Hitler as a part of the package is irresponsible.

Yeah... I'm just not going to respond to this given that it was a deliberate attempt to derail the thread.

	This assumption would not survive trial.

I'm sure as the type of guy who defends being awkward you would say that. Maybe you can't see it because its true for you too? On Edit: I just checked your post history -- and it is true!

	Some forms of awkwardness can be closely linked to a person's personality. I think the obsession you have with self-improvement is something that you need to improve on.

You can improve your personality. Saying you are stuck with your personality is the defense of cowards who are afraid to put in the work to change things about themselves they don't like. Anyone truly happy with themselves would admit that there were things about themselves they had to fix to become truly happy.

[Hariar]

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't think that is a reasonable conclusion at all. Prove it.

Which one? Ted Bundy? Psychopaths can be natural "pickup artists", their cold charm fools many. Watch
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clip from 1:18 to the groupies bit to get an idea. Ted Bundy did indeed "pick up" many of his victims.

	Yeah... I'm just not going to respond to this given that it was a deliberate attempt to derail the thread.

It is an analogue, you've seen them before. You can safely respond to them without derailing the thread.

	I'm sure as the type of guy who defends being awkward you would say that.

I do not defend being awkward. It is rather that you trust your empathic abilities beyond their limits.

	[...] its true for you too? On Edit: I just checked your post history -- and it is true!

Who knows, but you are deluding yourself if you think you can tell it from my post history.

	You can improve your personality. Saying you are stuck with your personality is the defense of cowards who are afraid to put in the work to change things about themselves they don't like. Anyone truly happy with themselves would admit that there were things about themselves they had to fix to become truly happy.

Not everything can realistically be fixed, nor will every fix will make you any happier.

[Haumea]

	Ironically, there are lots of guys who are very good at playing on the "awkward" guy thing because they know it's so effective on some women.

My immediate reaction to "“I knew this was going to be awkward, so I’ve been practicing standing awkwardly in front of you.” " was - damn, that's pretty fucking smooth!

So yeah, I agree with the thrust of your comment. Yeah, there's the "awkward charm" thing, but most awkwardness is not charming, it's rather tension-inducing and icky. So on the whole the article's kinda bullshit.

	In fact one way to look at what the PUA people claim would be by behavioral economics of the dating market.

Yeah, it's basically about exploiting the irrationality of young women in the dating market. Of course, the women-can-do-no-wrong nowts of the world are crying rape, fraud, murder and mayhem, without ever considering that the natural response to irrational behavior (engendered by the nowts of the world in the first place!) is adaptation to achieve effectiveness.

It's called "your feminist chickens have come home to roost." Enjoy the crowing sounds - we'll just plug our ears, tyvm.

[pironiro]

There is a huge difference between Hugh Grant being awkward and your average awkward dork being awkward.

[scorpiomover]

I used to think being awkward with a girl, really meant that we were unsuited to each other. Then I found out 2 things:

1) I realised that over the years, there were a LOT of women who were attracted to me, who I wasn't at all attracted to. I used to think this was some kind of ironic joke that I didn't understand. Then eventually, I found out that when I didn't care about the girl, then I wasn't worried about failing, so I relaxed, and they found my utterly charming. Amazing to think, because when I'm awkward, I make duck-billed platypii a run for their money. Then I noticed that other people I knew, including men who really are candidates for extreme levels of autistic social dysfunction, were actually having sex with hot women, who they called "friends".

2) I was reading an article in the paper. Was about a proper, really successful PUA. He was describing how no matter how smooth he was, when he saw a girl/woman who he really found attractive, he would become just as tongue-tied and awkward as a nerdy kid. Then I remembered how my flat-mate in uni, who ALL the girls fancied like mad, was sooo unbelievably nervous about the girl he liked, who all the guys fancied like mad. He went over to her bedroom, night after night, to do what? Play Monopoly (a board-game) AND NOTHING ELSE! I think he never even kissed her, despite the fact that everyone knew that she wanted him like crazy as well.

Basically, all it added up to, was that no matter how geeky or smooth the guy is, if he isn't interested, then women find him smooth, and if he is really into her, then he gets nervous and appears really awkward.

[Sethis]

@OP: This is completely ridiculous. It assumes that men have to be either a) shy and awkward nerds or b) loud and arrogant assholes.