[changos]

Do people change? do people grow? are apologies the result of the "needy and trouble times?" Hey all of you people with good memory
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after you have forgiven somebody for something, does the upcoming results have been satisfying? good? bad? does people confirm that forgiving is noble? idiotic?

Nobody is perfect, but good people are not the ones who behave good after being forgiven... the good people won't make you pass trough this.

[The Rose]

You poll seems to be addressing a specific kind of circumstance.
I forgive because I want to be forgiven.
What goes around comes around.

[Deliberator]

I think people confuse forgiveness with taking it in the rear. The two are quite distinct.

Forgiveness implies that you are not going to hold a grudge and hang the transgression over the person's head for the rest of their lives. Doesn't mean you just forget it forever, it's just that you're agreeing to move on. Nobody wants to go through life feeling like they're constantly on trial.

You can also forgive someone but still choose not to associate with them. I forgave my friends when they ambushed my fiance and told me that he was controlling me but from then on I could tell that it just wasn't going to work. I don't talk to them anymore. It's not about the fact that I didn't forgive them, I could just tell that they weren't the kind of people I wanted to associate with.

In a marriage and with family forgiveness is important, but it's not the factor that gets a person to avoid making the same mistake twice. If you are unhappy with a person's behavior, you lay it on the line. It doesn't even necessarily have to involve apology or forgiveness. In other words, protecting yourself from other people's repetitive behaviors doesn't mean you forego the mercy of forgiveness.

People do change and grow. In fact, you can help them do it faster by letting them know that certain behaviors they have are unacceptable and counterproductive. If they are unwilling to even consider the notion then what the hell are you wasting your time with them for?

And so I disagree with your last statement. I have had to be forgiven many times by my husband for certain behaviors that I struggle with. Through patience, I can slowly get better. I'm not a good person because I require patience and forgiveness in order to improve myself?

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by changos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Do people change? do people grow? are apologies the result of the "needy and trouble times?" Hey all of you people with good memory To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. after you have forgiven somebody for something, does the upcoming results have been satisfying? good? bad? does people confirm that forgiving is noble? idiotic? Nobody is perfect, but good people are not the ones who behave good after being forgiven... the good people won't make you pass trough this.

Your last sentence is contradictory. Nobody is perfect implies that they make mistakes and then must ask for forgiveness. Good people make mistakes.

I give the people in my life forgiveness. Learning and growing involves making mistakes and taking responsibility for those mistakes.

[josia]

I use to be forgiving. Very tolerant that is. But in life i learned about take and give. Always forgiving will not make people learn. I forgive myself for shit always happen but ensure that I learn something out of it. The same applied when others shitting me.

[Kiriane]

I picked the last option, "all the time". Just so we're clear, forgiving is not forgetting, because the former is good sense and the latter is stupidity. Option 2, going away, I believe it is for extreme circumstances. I have done this before and will do it again if required, although I don't like it.

All this backed up by logical reasoning, of course, even though I'm a softie at heart.

[alphawolf]

I forgive for certain types of things if I believe that they are overall a good person. It may also involve a one-time appropriate punishment for their actions.

Certain things are unforgivable: infidelity (emotional or physical), physical or mental attack against defenseless people (child abuse, rape, muggings, etc), theft, lying, refusing to back me up when I need it.

Things that might be forgiven: breaking a promise (1 time, regardless of circumstances), going behind my back, saying hurtful things in a heated argument, trying to take advantage of me (1 time).

[dragonsscout]

I picked the option "I forgive all the time." It really depends on the situation though, like The Rose said. Everyone screws up, so I don't mind too much when they do. I want to be forgiven sometimes, so I definitely wouldn't not forgive people in general. I'm sort of a forgive, but not forget kinda guy.

[changos]

	Originally Posted by Synamon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Your last sentence is contradictory. Nobody is perfect implies that they make mistakes and then must ask for forgiveness. Good people make mistakes. I give the people in my life forgiveness. Learning and growing involves making mistakes and taking responsibility for those mistakes.

No, is not contradictory. I should have been more explicit, everybody makes mistakes, yes. Mistakes are in one category (very easy to forgive I guess) but other thing is "things people do wrong, or bad things people do".

How we react about the wrong or bad things people do? lets put this in context: friendship and relationships.

Bought the wrong present? bought the wrong medicine? wrong reading of the medical prescription? bought expired food? All of these and more can be put into the "mistakes" category**, but this is not the case I refer to, instead I refer to lying, stealing, cheating, hiding information, expending your money, yelling at you in public, betraying you, eating your food (ok, thats a joke) but I guess now is more clear.

**The mistakes I mentioned at first in this post can be considered serious thing given some circumstances... A lot of "little details" once in a relationship (considering the context) are a prove that the person is not putting any attention to you. (complicated again huh)

But I guess there is a good difference between what you must do, what you should have done and just mistakes. Perhaps mistakes happen more because you ignore something, it doesn't reflect any bad mood or attitude.

Opposite to this, imagine somebody angry at you trying to do some damage. (perhaps you didn't lean money to your friends... some take attitudes)

[Gloed]

2nd option: "I don't know. I forgive and then I go away (I forgive but I don't help or get involved again)"

is this really forgiving? doesn't forgiving mean that towards this person you return to an emotional state similar to the one you had before you had to forgive? why would you go away then?

anyway, i find it rather difficult to forgive because the thing that happened between us diminished my trust in this person. i suppose forgiving implies trusting someone who has shamed your trust. that is more difficult than not taking offence any longer about a single thing that happened between us.

[Vagrant]

I grant forgiveness based on merit or intent. If I can see good intent, even though it ended badly, I will forgive. Or if they made up (merit) the insult, I can also forgive. However, granting forgiveness only rarely means I won't treat them differently afterward. If it was something like Deliberator said above, I would forgive them, but no longer associate with them.

	is this really forgiving? doesn't forgiving mean that towards this person you return to an emotional state similar to the one you had before you had to forgive? why would you go away then?

Not necessarily -- forgiving means you're no longer angry with them, and won't hold it against them. But that doesn't mean you can just ignore what they did.

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by changos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

No, is not contradictory. I should have been more explicit, everybody makes mistakes, yes. Mistakes are in one category (very easy to forgive I guess) but other thing is "things people do wrong, or bad things people do". How we react about the wrong or bad things people do? lets put this in context: friendship and relationships. Bought the wrong present? bought the wrong medicine? wrong reading of the medical prescription? bought expired food? All of these and more can be put into the "mistakes" category**, but this is not the case I refer to, instead I refer to lying, stealing, cheating, hiding information, expending your money, yelling at you in public, betraying you, eating your food (ok, thats a joke) but I guess now is more clear. **The mistakes I mentioned at first in this post can be considered serious thing given some circumstances... A lot of "little details" once in a relationship (considering the context) are a prove that the person is not putting any attention to you. (complicated again huh) But I guess there is a good difference between what you must do, what you should have done and just mistakes. Perhaps mistakes happen more because you ignore something, it doesn't reflect any bad mood or attitude. Opposite to this, imagine somebody angry at you trying to do some damage. (perhaps you didn't lean money to your friends... some take attitudes)

Good and bad are subjective. People make choices, some have negative consequences. We all make mistakes, that's one way we learn. Forgiving someone when they take responsibility for a mistake is the only logical thing I can do. It is how I would want them to treat me. How they react to it is beyond my control, but I still give them the forgiveness, whether the harm was intentional or not.