[sevans]

I'm interested in the opinion of this section of the forum, I'm not looking for dating advice which is why I posted this here, I'm merely looking for the psychology and possibly some insight into whether I might be codependent.

I've been thinking about my motives for dating recently after some moderately irritating attempts and realizations about how centered around others my life has become. And as uncharacteristically INTJ as this is, I'm not using others to make myself feel better or more accomplished, I'm actually just envisioning using them as an outlet to give myself self worth. I'm not looking for approval from them, I just feel like I need to be useful to someone but myself, like I need to complete someone, and I'm not looking for someone to complete me. I know it's all jumbled and probably doesn't make sense, but the fact is that I don't care what other people think of me unless I respect them, I only care what I think and I act on how I think. I feel like using someone to accomplish something like a relationship would boost my potential with other people that I might actually respect.

Does this sound like I'm a sociopath or maybe even codependent? Should I seek help or continue what I'm doing? Because the help I've been getting off and on since 7th grade (now 21 years old) hasn't changed a single thought process.

[deckard]

	Originally Posted by dennisevans
	as an outlet to give myself self worth.

This is what stuck out to me, so, questions.

If you were unable to parade this yet to be acquired person for others to see, would it still give you self worth?

If so, and you feel you might derive self worth from simply sharing your time with a person, do you think such a feeling might have a finite shelf life?

If it is, as you say, a means to feel more confident in your life apart from this person then what amount of attention would be sufficient for this confidence to be permanent?

Your ideas are probably dictating your worth because you have yet to be truly disappointed by a relationship. I don't think this is abnormal and of course I'm sure you're aware that there as many people miserable in their relationships as there are those who find themselves miserable alone. Wanting what you don't have doesn't mean attaining it will change anything regarding your self worth and can go either way.

[Plato]

If you are looking for someone to fix or complete, then you are bound to end up in an unhealthy relationship which involves codependency.

I know you mentioned that you are not looking for someone to complete you, but then, why are you searching for someone? It would be implied due to your need to have someone in your life that you can complete that you are lacking something in your life, and therefore, are incomplete at some level.

Your view of a relationship as a tool to alter the way people view you has me concerned.

Why do you feel that others would view you differently if you are in a seemingly stable relationship?

What inner circles will you be able to enter with a significant other at your side?

[spect]

codependency is more about control. controlling the person, the relationship, and thier environment in attempts to not feel emotional pain. its that pain, and strong fear from avoiding it that usually needs to be focused on.

if you dont think that fits you, then i would consider something else besides being codependant.

[sevans]

Originally Posted by deckard To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This is what stuck out to me, so, questions. If you were unable to parade this yet to be acquired person for others to see, would it still give you self worth? If so, and you feel you might derive self worth from simply sharing your time with a person, do you think such a feeling might have a finite shelf life? If it is, as you say, a means to feel more confident in your life apart from this person then what amount of attention would be sufficient for this confidence to be permanent? Your ideas are probably dictating your worth because you have yet to be truly disappointed by a relationship. I don't think this is abnormal and of course I'm sure you're aware that there as many people miserable in their relationships as there are those who find themselves miserable alone. Wanting what you don't have doesn't mean attaining it will change anything regarding your self worth and can go either way.

I don't understand your first question, would it be too much of an issue or inconvenience to rephrase?

Yes, I believe emotions have a finite shelf life, there are some occasions where emotions last much longer than in other circumstances, but there's always a drop off.

I just need to feel like my life actually matters to someone, just because I matter to myself, and have either convinced myself that the world is in my head via perception and will never be experienced the same way again or that I actually do matter and don't see it. I spend my life trying to make other people happy, as a general rule I'll fall off track a couple days a month, but making other people happy makes me happy and that doesn't seem to lead to any external social payback. I don't get anything in return, I don't get any sense of accomplishment, and people always seem to blame me because they think I'm weak, in regards to trying to appease everyone and make them happy, they think it's external and meant for the others when really it's completely selfish, I live for myself.

I'm no longer disappointed by relationships because I expect nothing from them in return, I expect to get fucked over, and I expect to be disappointed. This is a response to having dealt with a few relationships that really fucked me up bad, lost my best and only friend in middle school, spent 2 years on getting one girl to the point that I knew she liked me before asking her out only to hear, "You shouldn't ask why someone won't date you, only why they would." When confronted with that I lost all respect in myself and laid low for a couple of years, then I spent another two years getting to know a girl before she told me "I think we should just go to prom as friends." When I got there, she called me her date which confused me, then we started fading away, I met back up with her at college, got close again, she started getting flirty and then she stopped talking to me all together. It's not that I've experienced real disappointment in relationships, because I have, it's that I've experienced more disappointment in myself than in the other person every time. I guess I just expect more from myself, and less from other people because each time, it seems like the issues is less someone else and more me, even though I study psychology for the sake of understanding why relationships work and why they don't, and why they can't seem to work for me.

I disagree, attaining something that I want will make me realize that I do mean something to someone else, and I need to feel that not just hear it.

[TLMINTJ]

What you are dealing with now and in the past is typical INTJ. Our tendency towards dating is a "wait and see" approach. We spend too much time trying to get comfortable and by the time you get around to it, they have put you in the "friend" status. As a rule, INTJs don't reject those that reject us if we don't feel there is a reason. That is why you kept going back for more. Other personalities tend to use that to their advantage. Keep you as a fall back guy. Trust me, you are not the first or last one to have that experience. I completely understand what you say about only caring about what someone thinks if you respect them and it isn't at all out of the norm to try to do things that are more impressive to those you do respect. However, I have found that you can't ever do enough. If you find someone you respect that say is into buff guys and you decide to hit the gym and become buff to impress this person what you will get is buff, because they have no clue what you are thinking. Then when you take too long to connect with them, they are gone and you lose respect for yourself for taking that path. I hear you on this one. Been there, done that....a lot. INFJs sometimes reject who they are at the core and try to fit in with the norm. We are after all unique. However, it will always come back to this. Disappointment in ourselves is cumulative and should be overcome. Otherwise depression sets in. As for myself, I am learning to keep at least some of my opinions to myself with others and not waiting so long to allow someone close to me.

[deckard]

	I disagree, attaining something that I want will make me realize that I do mean something to someone else, and I need to feel that not just hear it.

Yeah, but you admit yourself that those feelings have a finite shelf life, which I think you're right about but I don't see it as a linear progression, rather more seasonal or cyclical. To which, the person you wind up with will either be one of those who is aware of this or isn't.

I wouldn't mean to offend, but you are pretty young and so comparing these few short experiences to that of decades long relationships or some other such experiences don't add up to the same sum by any measure. Maybe if you saw your potential whomever as another permanent fixture in your life and asked that this be reciprocated by them, your 'problems' would fade. Because then, you both understand and agree to understand that this is all just a process of life and no one and no thing is perfect.

	I don't understand your first question, would it be too much of an issue or inconvenience to rephrase? ------ If you were unable to parade this yet to be acquired person for others to see, would it still give you self worth?

Some people look at who they're with as ornaments to be shown off, or a social validation of not being an odd ball to others. Because if one person can bear being with you, you must not be a weirdo or some other such negative idea people put on themselves and their peers.

In the end, everyone's a weirdo. I'm of the opinion that relationships should be had and kept, of their own volition.

[sevans]

Originally Posted by deckard To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yeah, but you admit yourself that those feelings have a finite shelf life, which I think you're right about but I don't see it as a linear progression, rather more seasonal or cyclical. To which, the person you wind up with will either be one of those who is aware of this or isn't. I wouldn't mean to offend, but you are pretty young and so comparing these few short experiences to that of decades long relationships or some other such experiences don't add up to the same sum by any measure. Maybe if you saw your potential whomever as another permanent fixture in your life and asked that this be reciprocated by them, your 'problems' would fade. Because then, you both understand and agree to understand that this is all just a process of life and no one and no thing is perfect. Some people look at who they're with as ornaments to be shown off, or a social validation of not being an odd ball to others. Because if one person can bear being with you, you must not be a weirdo or some other such negative idea people put on themselves and their peers. In the end, everyone's a weirdo. I'm of the opinion that relationships should be had and kept, of their own volition.

People aren't trophies, they are people. I just need to make someone feel good so I can feel good. Whatever though, it might happen.

[deckard]

	Originally Posted by dennisevans To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	People aren't trophies, they are people. I just need to make someone feel good so I can feel good. Whatever though, it might happen.

It will happen.

You'd be surprised how many women, if that's who you're after and especially of your age group would see you and parade you as a trophy. That is, if they like you. It's not necessarily a bad thing (imo) but depending on the degree of importance it may wind up adversely affecting the private relationship by them offering you disingenuous reassurances to make up for the insecurity of feeling alone. And vice versa. That's co-dependency.

[Odie]

Honestly, judging by your post history alone, you have a tendency to seek validation. So, whatever relationships you're having could be healthier.

[PlungingHornets]

Originally Posted by dennisevans To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I've been thinking about my motives for dating recently after some moderately irritating attempts and realizations about how centered around others my life has become. And as uncharacteristically INTJ as this is, I'm not using others to make myself feel better or more accomplished, I'm actually just envisioning using them as an outlet to give myself self worth. I'm not looking for approval from them, I just feel like I need to be useful to someone but myself, like I need to complete someone, and I'm not looking for someone to complete me. I know it's all jumbled and probably doesn't make sense, but the fact is that I don't care what other people think of me unless I respect them, I only care what I think and I act on how I think. I feel like using someone to accomplish something like a relationship would boost my potential with other people that I might actually respect.

I think alot of people think like this on some level (maybe minus the not needing to be completed by someone else). It's a human need to feel needed.

[stormseeker]

People and self are central to any equation to having a good life that matters.

What is it that people think about in their last few moments of life or when they have a mid-life crisis?

I didn't give my wife the attention she deserved... I didn't give more time to seeking God... I gave more to my work and business that to my own family... I didn't show my kids enough love....

I didn't do anything lasting or worthwhile with my life is what most people think when something big happens- be it death, sudden realization, emergency, or coming close to loosing someone important, etc.

We want to leave our mark.

The only mark worth leaving and that is lasting is the affect we have on people. We need witnesses to our lives, part of that is the relationships we build and how we care for them. How we love others and help them with their needs and desires.

Marriages and friendships are at their core a two way street of mutual feelings and benefits.

We have a need to produce something that is lasting. Something we can look at at the end of our days and say I lived a life worth living and I meant something to those around me. Its hard to say that if your life is filled with an endless parade of parties, one night stands, drugs, drinking, fast cars, long hours at work, etc.

Its about meaningful connections with people that goes beyond the good times.

At least that is the conclusion I have reached after giving too many years to long hours at work and not enough time with my own family.

[Scummy]

That sounds just like me.
I think that one reason is that it's simply easier for me to solve problems by looking at them objectively, or from the outside. Self-work is a massive challenge. Helping others is probably rewarding because it's solving a practical and attainable goal without all the emotional exposure. Plus, seeing a need and being able to fulfill it is my way of showing that I am invested in something/someone. I doubt that codependency can be all bad, but there is definitely a balance. It can also be nice to have someone to depend on, even if it feels awkward.

[stormseeker]

Balance is something I struggle with. I get tunnel vision in what I am doing way to easily.